WW CXXXIX - The Red Death II - GAME OVER, SERVANTS WIN

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I don't blame him at all. He did everything he needed to but the rest of the village dropped the ball. I know I should have trusted him more and pushed harder on EF.

I think he tried hard, but the role was already difficult to trust when his scans aren't 100% accurate and he can be converted each time he scans or by wolves. Not to mention his style of play, when everyone is saying that playing strange is just the way Bug plays there is a problem. It leads to a great wolf because everyone will always say he just plays that way and will let him off if he's a villager it causes confusion.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I believed you bug!

Just saying this now, in the three games I've read/participated in, people that make these comments are typically wolves.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Fools I told you eaglefan was a lier

On what that seeing nothing suspicious is too much info? What is too much info about that? You believed it when you first read it so it can't be that far off.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Seriously? You are considering giving EF a pass here?

Not by any means, but we will find out if he was a detective in one or two lynchings, depends on if the tie works. At that point we will know.

[Commo_Soldier]

Dubb, good to see you on though, I've been contemplating something, do you think it will help?

[Commo_Soldier]

Dola, kinda cryptic, but you're smart, if you think about it, it will come to you.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

The day is infinitely long. Time has slowed to the crawl of a snail as you discuss the life of another. Words ring hollow in your ears. Many people begin shouting and accusing. Unlike yesterday, you don't calm down and regain your composure.


You just feed off each other.


Each of you becomes more and more nervous. Life is the greatest gift we have. It's precious. It's weight is worth a thousand planets of gold. There are two timeless truths to existence. Life dies. But life lives.


Despite your desire to fight against the passing of time, the day marches on, and it is time. It is time to take away a life. But life lives.


After your deliberations are complete, you settle on the Adept. We all know Magic corrupts and he could have been corrupted to the Red Death. It is time. But life lives.


MrBug708 stands and gathers himself calmly. Although a moment ago he was fighting with spit and fire, now that he has been selected, the calm of the grave passes over. There is nothing left but dignity. Nothing but life. Because life lives.


The Flame is summoned and the tall pillar stands ready to accept your chosen one. With only a moment's hesitation, the Adept walks into the fire. The Flames enwrap his body and his spirit is set free before being burned. He was a Lightbringer and the Adept. He has died. But life lives.


You have killed the best of yourselves.



Day Five has ended. Night Five has begun and will end at 5 pm Sunday EST.

Also did anyone else think he was going to make it with Life being mentioned so much?

[Chief Rum]

I highly recommend we all get our night actions in and vote Dayfall, since right now, the wolves could be basing their decisions on our discussions. The sooner we get to Day, the sooner we can get back to village business.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Dubb, good to see you on though, I've been contemplating something, do you think it will help?

Go for it.

[Abe Sargent]

I was up to 192 pms in my box, so I had to delete all of those sent adnreceivied on Wednesday, so please hold onto the preciously important ones from then.

[EagleFan]

I deserve to be lynched and fully accept that. I was too overzealous and screwed up. I cost us big time and for that I am sorry.

I put my order in for the night phase and voted dayfall with it.

Not going to reveal who I chose tonight until after the results. No sense in telling the wolves anything.

I really screwed up an am quite sorry and very pissed at myself for that.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Just saying this now, in the three games I've read/participated in, people that make these comments are typically wolves.

I can't really say anything to argue with that. Just the fact that it's true, I tended to believe him during this entire time. And you've been so ridiculously over the top in wanting to get him lynched that I pretty much want you out of the game whether or not you are a wolf.

[The Jackal]

Only problem with that is, I don't really think you are a wolf, but I still can't believe how much you were pushing us to lynch the seer. I think a wolf wouldn't push that hard, but I also see that no one is really talking about it.

[The Jackal]

Obviously we need to wait and see what happens in the night phase, and Commo isn't at the top of my list, and I'm not going to push to get him lynched, but your play surrounding bug pinged the hell out of me.

I know I'm in no way clear, I could have been converted, but I think it would've been pretty dumb for me to act like that day 2 if I was just converted, and even dumber for the wolves to convert me afterwards.

[The Jackal]

Though I had the trust of danny, and others have said they don't feel I'm a wolf, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Alright I'm done with my late night ramblings.

PS HOLY CRAP WE GOT A SHUTOUT

[EagleFan]

Did you see the game?

[EagleFan]

I'll take your shock to mean no?

[EagleFan]

It's been quiet. I finally have a little bit of time tonight and nothing...

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I'll take your shock to mean no?

I was working all day, I DVRed it and then watched it

[The Jackal]

I want to believe you screwed up EF but it's going to be tough, I think a lot of people (including wolves) are going to vote for you because it's A) convenient, B) your story doesn't add up, C) revenge for bug, D) we don't have slam-dunk candidates at this juncture

[EagleFan]

Simmonds looks like he has fan favorite written all over him if he keeps playing like that.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Simmonds looks like he has fan favorite written all over him if he keeps playing like that.

I really like what I've seen from Voracek too. I was already going to do it but I'm pretty sure I'll go to the NHL store and get carter taken off my #17 jersey and switched with simmonds

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I want to believe you screwed up EF but it's going to be tough, I think a lot of people (including wolves) are going to vote for you because it's A) convenient, B) your story doesn't add up, C) revenge for bug, D) we don't have slam-dunk candidates at this juncture

Unfortunately I screwed up and will gladly accept that. Can we at least go after Narc first? Then I can at least feel like I accomplished something positive.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Unfortunately I screwed up and will gladly accept that. Can we at least go after Narc first? Then I can at least feel like I accomplished something positive.

Absolutely.

[The Jackal]

It sucks if Narc is/was actually the sheriff. I'll hold out hope that he isn't and was just trying to get the sheriff to reveal, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I really like what I've seen from Voracek too. I was already going to do it but I'm pretty sure I'll go to the NHL store and get carter taken off my #17 jersey and switched with simmonds

Nice grinding goal that he had. Great work in front to get that.

I also loved the fight. Helped the guy regain his balance and pull him back to his feet so he could continue the beatdown.

[The Jackal]

I'm actually impressed Rinaldo drew a penalty on Clarkson without getting into a fight with him. He's still taken two crappy minor penalties through the two first games but at least he's held his crazy in check.

Simmonds definitely owned Clarkson in that fight, though it was less punching and more awesome balance. I don't want him fighting all the time but it's good to know he's got that side to him.

[The Jackal]

Alright now I'm actually going to sleep, sorry I can't banter with you longer

[EagleFan]

I'll check in tomorrow night (Sunday). Daughter's birthday and have a few things going on with family coming over. Already sent my orders in for the night phase and voted for daytime as I will probbly not be on until the evening sometime.

I'll let you know the results that I get tomorrow. Hopefully I can earn my keep a little (though I have a lot to make up for that screwup).

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

D) we don't have slam-dunk candidates at this juncture

ps i of course meant after narcizo

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Only problem with that is, I don't really think you are a wolf, but I still can't believe how much you were pushing us to lynch the seer. I think a wolf wouldn't push that hard, but I also see that no one is really talking about it.

I will admit I was pressing him hard, partially to see if he'd screw up and make a mistake. I didn't think we should lynch him without any sort of proof that he was bad though, which came in the form of EF saying he saw him be converted. Additionally, at first I didn't think we should have had him as a BG because it made little sense when the exorcist is a more important kill for the wolves than the seer.

As for Narc, looking at who he protected I really do expect he was the body guard and that EF did see the conversion for him take place. However, I still think he may ultimately have to be lynched to prove he is who he says he is.

[dubb93]

Anyone not actively trying to create a tie between EF and Narc tomorrow is going to be unbelievably suspicious to me.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I really do expect he was the body guard and that EF did see the conversion for him take place. However, I still think he may ultimately have to be lynched to prove he is who he says he is.

Really? EF made us lynch the seer. You really think we should consider giving him a pass here? Wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Unfortunately I screwed up and will gladly accept that. Can we at least go after Narc first? Then I can at least feel like I accomplished something positive.

The problem is that it wasn't like you only posted one time on Friday. You were in multiple times, giving information about your reveal. So it is a little hard to swallow that you got the wrong guy in the morning and never picked up on it in the afternoon.

Oh, and there is the little matter of two Detectives. I think people (well, me at least) will willing to sort of buy into it, but looking back it was foolish. Two kills + conversion + two detectives should have been something that I pushed back against harder on Friday. It really did stink on several levels.

As far as who we go after first, I think that the seer clearly fingering Narcizo with his scan suggests we get him initially. Assuming there is nothing new coming out in this Night phase to change directions, that would be the approach I would want to take.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

It sucks if Narc is/was actually the sheriff. I'll hold out hope that he isn't and was just trying to get the sheriff to reveal, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Well, if he wasn't converted Sheriff then we should sue the guy who does have the role for his lack of performance here. Between the lack of blocks in pretty standard spots, and failure to provide clarity on Friday, I think that role has really been a detriment to the Lightbringers so far. Which makes sense if it was an early conversion, but not so much if that person is still with us.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

The problem is that it wasn't like you only posted one time on Friday. You were in multiple times, giving information about your reveal. So it is a little hard to swallow that you got the wrong guy in the morning and never picked up on it in the afternoon.

Oh, and there is the little matter of two Detectives. I think people (well, me at least) will willing to sort of buy into it, but looking back it was foolish. Two kills + conversion + two detectives should have been something that I pushed back against harder on Friday. It really did stink on several levels.

As far as who we go after first, I think that the seer clearly fingering Narcizo with his scan suggests we get him initially. Assuming there is nothing new coming out in this Night phase to change directions, that would be the approach I would want to take.

Let me re-phrase on the last point - barring something coming out of night phase I would go for creating the tie, but Narcizo would be 1A and EF would be 1B.

[EagleFan]

[quote=hoopsguy;2545594]The problem is that it wasn't like you only posted one time on Friday. You were in multiple times, giving information about your reveal. So it is a little hard to swallow that you got the wrong guy in the morning and never picked up on it in the afternoon.
[quote]

Won't be back until later today but have a moment to address this. I signed on, saw my PM and placed my vote. Later I explained my vote. That was pretty much it for that day.

I didn't go back and reread through my PM's until I saw the lynch results not show bug as a wolf as that was my WTF moment. That is when I realized that I had screwed up (with a little help from Abe responding to my WTF PM, already said it in a reply but I'll say it again here.. Sorry Abe).

As I said, I fully accept the consequences of my mistake. I screwed up and cost the village not only a seer but another wasted lynch day when you go after me.

What do we know about a tie? If it is unknown and a possible no lynch I wouldn't recommend pushing for a tie as that costs us three days to get one wolf.

[The Jackal]

I know it has been suggested that a tie would result in both parties getting lynched, but I don't see any reference to it in the rules. Did Abe confirm it somewhere in the midst of this massive thread?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I know it has been suggested that a tie would result in both parties getting lynched, but I don't see any reference to it in the rules. Did Abe confirm it somewhere in the midst of this massive thread?

I'm not sure it was mentioned in the first game or not, but we had an unexpected event (which we haven't had yet in this game, beware!) that caused lynch time to end early with three people tied for the lead. All three were lynched. Luckily one of the three was a wolf. So I'm expecting the tie rule to be the same here, but I guess its possible Abe changed it.

[Thomkal]

[quote=EagleFan;2545610][quote=hoopsguy;2545594]The problem is that it wasn't like you only posted one time on Friday. You were in multiple times, giving information about your reveal. So it is a little hard to swallow that you got the wrong guy in the morning and never picked up on it in the afternoon.

Won't be back until later today but have a moment to address this. I signed on, saw my PM and placed my vote. Later I explained my vote. That was pretty much it for that day.

I didn't go back and reread through my PM's until I saw the lynch results not show bug as a wolf as that was my WTF moment. That is when I realized that I had screwed up (with a little help from Abe responding to my WTF PM, already said it in a reply but I'll say it again here.. Sorry Abe).

As I said, I fully accept the consequences of my mistake. I screwed up and cost the village not only a seer but another wasted lynch day when you go after me.

What do we know about a tie? If it is unknown and a possible no lynch I wouldn't recommend pushing for a tie as that costs us three days to get one wolf.

Sorry if this is true EF, but you fooled me once already if you are a wolf, not going to give you the chance to fool me again.

[Autumn]

I don't see any way these guys aren't both wolves. Sure, it's theoretically possible that EF really made that mistake. But frankly that's the kind of mistake that gets you lynched, I'm not going to lose sleep over that possibility.

Just like Friday, I say if EF is good all it means is we lost one of two detectives, not at all the worst possibility in this game. No way we keep him alive any longer than necessary. If we can kill them both tomorrow, all the better. Who knows what else they can pull off either with powers or items before they're dead.

[Autumn]

Not really sure if I posted this yet.

commo votes chief 2153
commo unvotes chief 2157
thomkal votes EF 2187
jackal votes EF 2196
EF votes mrbug 2211
autumn votes chief 2213
mrbug votes narcizo 2224
autumn unvotes chief 2237
autumn votes narcizo 2237
jackal unvotes EF 2244
jackal votes narcizo 2244
J23 votes narcizo 2257
sndvls votes ef 2285
commo votes narc 2290
grammaticus votes narc 2294
commo unvotes narc 2344
commo votes mrbug 2354
narcizo votes mrbug 2368
jackal unvotes narc 2375
jackal vote EF 2375
mckerney unvotes narcizo 2387
mckerney votes EF 2387
thomkal unvotes EF 2415
thomkal votes mrbug 2415
hoops guy votes mrbug 2423
autumn unvotes narcizo 2441
autumn votes mrbug 2442
J23 unvotes narcizo 2444
J23 votes mrbug 2444
sndvls unvotes EF 2445
sndvls votes mrbug 2445
mauboy votes mrbug 2456
jackal unvotes EF 2457
jackal votes mrbug 2457
sndvls unvotes mrbug 2489
sndvls votes eaglefan 2499
autumn unvotes mrbug 2507
autumn votes eaglefan 2507
jackal unvotes mrbug 2511
jackal votes EF 2511
mauboy unvotes mrbug 2512
mauboy votes EF 2512
cheif votes EF 2526
dubb votes MrBug 2536
autumnunvotes eaglefan 2600
autumn votes mrbug 2600
mauboy unvotes EF 2601
mauboy votes bug 2601

chief -
4 EagleFan - mckerney, sndvls, jackal, chief
9 Mrbug - EF, commo, narcizo, thomkal, hoops, J23, dubb, autumn, mauboy
2 narcizo - mrbug, grammaticus

[Chief Rum]

I would tend to agree with the others here. Yeah, it's possible EF's telling the truth, but frankly, it don't matter. Intentional or not, EF screwed us two ways from Sunday. It would be irresponsible to let him continue to live. And if we have a way to off both him and Narc at once as well, great.

[Autumn]

Having friends over for the evening, so I probably won't be back on until tomorrow.

[Narcizo]

This sort of really pisses me off. I go away for the weekend and I'm thinking about, you know, who the other wolves are going to be and stuff. Then I come back and Bug is a good guy? Talk about a hell of a lot of wasted energy for no good and I'm about to get lynched.

So I realise that I'm getting hanged here - at least I've got a 20% chance of making it. I don't know what's happened. All I know is that I'm a lightbringer, I'm the sherrif and the wolves are actually looking like they're going to make a go of the game. I guess I'll try and give you my best thoughts on who the wolves are for posterity tomorrow if I get some time. Eagle seems top of the list, admittedly - if he isn't a wolf then we could be in a lot of trouble.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Well, if he wasn't converted Sheriff then we should sue the guy who does have the role for his lack of performance here. Between the lack of blocks in pretty standard spots, and failure to provide clarity on Friday, I think that role has really been a detriment to the Lightbringers so far. Which makes sense if it was an early conversion, but not so much if that person is still with us.

Come on Hoops. You know being the bodyguard isn't an easy job. Which were the blocks in pretty standard spots? The bodyguard's role is to protect the roled characters. You know what tends to happen when the BG tries to get cute - roled characters die. First two days I protect myself - I'm the only person with a role that I know of. Day three it's pretty clear that I'm not going to be a target so I protect the one role that seems the most valuable. Sure I can guess that the wolves might be going after Danny (although I don't know when I leave that he's managed to nail another wolf and I don't have time to react in the morning). Day four I protect the seer - doesn't matter how dubious they look you always protect the seer.

So everyone thinks I've been converted? When and why did the wolves decide to convert me. I mean seriously? What where they aiming for when they converted me? My ability to effect the votes at crucial times? Or my gleaming voting record that would place me in the circle of trust?

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Eagle seems top of the list, admittedly - if he isn't a wolf then we could be in a lot of trouble.

Aha. Just seen his retraction. He is a wolf. That's alright then - at least some good comes of this. So Zinto, Eagle and NTN are almost certainly your original wolves, based on the voting records. Just need to work out who the conversions are. Me apparently and probably someone, possibly someones else.

[hoopsguy]

Narcizo, if you were the bodyguard I know it would be really tough having to put decisions in 6-8 hours before the daytime deadline.

As far as when you were converted, I would have expected Night 1 (before any meaningful voting record stuff came into play) but I don't think that is terribly important in terms of moving forward. What is important is that we've got a dead/good seer who pointed to you as a wolf on his final day action. There is nothing in the game rules to suggest that the seer would see a villager as a wolf, so I'm not sure where there is a ton of debate about you going forward.

Look, you got an extra day - we didn't lynch you the day the seer fingered you. I understand getting greedy and taking another day if it is there to be grabbed, but I'm sure hoping that you + EF are both whacked at the end of Day 6.

[Narcizo]

Only joking. Unlike Bug who seemed uncertain of his allegiance I know I'm a good guy. If a tie lands us with both roles killed then I guess a tie is the way to go. If the wolves have any way of influencing the vote then, obviously, I'm going to die. Not ideal but there you go. Like I said I have the 20% chance, better than you get in most games. Then again you don't get a failed scan/whatever the hell happened there in most games.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

As far as when you were converted, I would have expected Night 1 (before any meaningful voting record stuff came into play) but I don't think that is terribly important in terms of moving forward. What is important is that we've got a dead/good seer who pointed to you as a wolf on his final day action. There is nothing in the game rules to suggest that the seer would see a villager as a wolf, so I'm not sure where there is a ton of debate about you going forward.

There's nothing in the rules about a lot of things. Might there not be something to counter the fact that the bodyguard can perma-protect the seer until he is killed? Maybe some way for the baddies to screw with the seer if he outs himself. I dunno Hoops, maybe the converted seer reads as a seer if he's been converted as a seer. I don't know.

But yeah, I can understand no-one is going to believe me. So I'll just put down who I think are wolves tomorrow and then be on my way. Probably.