The Walking Dead -- TV Series Thread

[stevew]

They should make Collateral Damages and have Cruise face off vs Glenn Close.

[stevew]

Companion series is allegedly called "Fear The Walking Dead"

[Edward64]

Missed it tonight.

Any good?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Missed it tonight.

Any good?

No, not really.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

No, not really.

No, it was really pretty good. It was beautifully shot. Had some powerful scenes and dialogue. Some pretty fantastic zombie killing action as well.

[Draft Dodger]

happened to see this quote on my feed and that summed things up fairly well for me (it was a link to the AV Club review)

"Taken on style alone, The Walking Dead presented a haunting, frequently mesmerizing hour of television. Ah, but then you put the script back in, and things get tricky."

[Draft Dodger]

oh, and this comment made me chuckle

How the hell did they cover 3 states worth of ground in 1 minute of show? They haven't been able to get 100 miles outside of Atlanta in 5 seasons. The whole point of the last season was "man how are we going to survive all the way to DC?!" and now they can make 500 miles in a jump cut? Seriously?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

oh, and this comment made me chuckle

Picayune nonsense. Again.

It's pretty common in TV shows to jump time or locations between seasons.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Picayune nonsense. Again.

It's pretty common in TV shows to jump time or locations between seasons.

you lawyers and your high-fallutin' words

[stevew]

trying to think of which members of The Wire they can (realistically) cast.

Cops-
McNulty has the Affair
Bunk might work but he's too fat to outrun zombies this long
Lester doesn't have much going. I think he'd be a good get.
Not sure what Herc or Kemma are doing, but either would upgrade the cast

-The Street
Marlo is obviously a great get. He's got a bit part on Person of Interest.
Avon-Stringer is obviously out, he could play either a good guy or a bad guy. Harris Wood is great
dunno what Bodie or Michael are up to. Either works
I think Chris Partlow is working, if not sign him up
the Greek's #2 already looks like Negan.


I guess they still have options.

[Radii]

Snoop and her nail gun would be just as good as Daryl with a crossbow.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Radii

Snoop and her nail gun would be just as good as Daryl with a crossbow.

I'm pretty sure she's still in prison? Only reason I omitted her.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm pretty sure she's still in prison? Only reason I omitted her.

oh ya, i forgot about that.

I went back and watched the "snoop buys a nail gun" scene on youtube. "The man says if you wanna shoot nails, this here's the Cadilac, man. He mean Lexus, but he don't know it"

So damn good.

Sorry, back to Walking Dead!

[stevew]

Just watched the whole series in like 2 weeks. def rewatched that scene two or three times.

Really couldn't do Cutty without laughing. Once he'd get animated he sounds like the "Alright Alright Alright" bit by Kevin Hart.

[kingfc22]

I liked the episode a lot and am looking forward to the rest of this season. I think we are going to lose 3-5 more characters by the time it's all said and done.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

I liked the episode a lot and am looking forward to the rest of this season. I think we are going to lose 3-5 more characters by the time it's all said and done.

I think that's one of the things this show has never quite gotten a handle on. It is okay to kill off characters. but they kill off people too frequently so it loses a lot of the potential impact. folks are going to die, but if people weren't dropping left and right I might have time to grieve.

[B & B]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

No, not really.

Hmm, pretty spot on.


Sad (we) lost a great developed char in Tyreese but this "show" felt like a gut punchless episode with some BS homages to characters past. Totally missed the mark, and the direction was haphazard at best.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I think that's one of the things this show has never quite gotten a handle on. It is okay to kill off characters. but they kill off people too frequently so it loses a lot of the potential impact. folks are going to die, but if people weren't dropping left and right I might have time to grieve.

Or if they had really properly developed those characters in the first place.

The writing on this show is really poor. My biggest issue is that a single character will basically change week to week depending upon what is needed to progress that particular episode. The only characters that have consistently felt "real" are Daryl and Carol.

But they get it right about every 3-4 episodes, which is why I've stuck with this show for so long. It's as frustrating as LOST was though. It just feels like a lot of squandered potential.

[stevew]

I think I'm done watching week to week. I'll check out the spin-off. Maybe I'll binge watch later on this season. People are straight garbage about this show on social media, love a feed full of spoilers.

[Draft Dodger]

and usually when they do spend some time with a character, it's a sure sign they are going to die. that was true with Beth and Bob. Tyreese was one of the more fleshed out characters, but as soon as he gave that speech to Noah I knew he was a goner.

as soon they start giving screen time to Tara, Sasha, Milton or Rosita, you can start the bell tolling for them

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Or if they had really properly developed those characters in the first place.

The writing on this show is really poor. My biggest issue is that a single character will basically change week to week depending upon what is needed to progress that particular episode. The only characters that have consistently felt "real" are Daryl and Carol.

But they get it right about every 3-4 episodes, which is why I've stuck with this show for so long. It's as frustrating as LOST was though. It just feels like a lot of squandered potential.

I don't think the writing is really poor, it's just uneven. I think the "hit rate" is better than every 3-4 episodes as well. I also think there is more consistency in characters than you think, but I totally agree that Daryl and Carol are the best by far.

I wonder about squandered potential. It's possible. I have read the comic since the beginning and still do, and the show is much, much better.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

and usually when they do spend some time with a character, it's a sure sign they are going to die. that was true with Beth and Bob. Tyreese was one of the more fleshed out characters, but as soon as he gave that speech to Noah I knew he was a goner.

as soon they start giving screen time to Tara, Sasha, Milton or Rosita, you can start the bell tolling for them

This is largely veridical! Veracious even!

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I don't think the writing is really poor, it's just uneven. I think the "hit rate" is better than every 3-4 episodes as well. I also think there is more consistency in characters than you think, but I totally agree that Daryl and Carol are the best by far.

I wonder about squandered potential. It's possible. I have read the comic since the beginning and still do, and the show is much, much better.

I think it depends upon what you are comparing it against. By TV standards it's fine i'm sure, but in absolute terms I think it's very poor. It's why I watch so little TV.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think it depends upon what you are comparing it against. By TV standards it's fine i'm sure, but in absolute terms I think it's very poor. It's why I watch so little TV.

We are in the Golden Age of TV. Comparing it to its companion's, then i would say it's absolutely in the bottom tier for writing. Other people have made some points about why, so I don't want to rehash all of them, but the thing that gets me is the characters changing all the time to fit the episode. ITS LAZY!!!!!

Also, Cutty being overpowered by a zombie, ya no....

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

We are in the Golden Age of TV. Comparing it to its companion's, then i would say it's absolutely in the bottom tier for writing. Other people have made some points about why, so I don't want to rehash all of them, but the thing that gets me is the characters changing all the time to fit the episode. ITS LAZY!!!!!

Also, Cutty being overpowered by a zombie, ya no....

He was only over powered by a zombie while he was already bit, feverish, and dying. He was far from top form at that point. They has him alone and surrounded by a good number of zombies a few times and always came out on top. So, Cutty's strength and skill were well represented.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think it depends upon what you are comparing it against. By TV standards it's fine i'm sure, but in absolute terms I think it's very poor. It's why I watch so little TV.

I am not sure what else you'd compare it to. It's not really fair to compare it to film, but even if you did, on average, I'd put Walking Dead's writing over most films. Oscar nominated films? No. But there are a lotta shitty movies out there, which is why I watch so few films each year. I mean take all of January and February, look at all movies released in theaters or through other channels and tell me how many are well written. Granted, this is the dead period for film, but it's still 1/6th of the year and even in the prime months there are still more shitty films than good.

If you want to compare its writing to other films in its genre since it started its run - either horror or say, post apocalyptic/survival films - it's likely in the top 10%. Between theater and straight to DVDS releases, again, there very, very few decent movies released in either drama.

I would also argue, if you're looking at pure percentages - there percentage of TV shows with good writing equals or surpasses the number of films with good writing.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Also, Cutty being overpowered by a zombie, ya no....

well he was also outrun by a guy with a severe limp, so...I guess the ex-NFL linebacker thing only applied to the comics

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

We are in the Golden Age of TV. Comparing it to its companion's, then i would say it's absolutely in the bottom tier for writing. Other people have made some points about why, so I don't want to rehash all of them, but the thing that gets me is the characters changing all the time to fit the episode. ITS LAZY!!!!!

Also, Cutty being overpowered by a zombie, ya no....

From time to time they are able to service the large group and create compelling stories. Then there will be occasions where we'll spend half an episode with people arguing in a field. All just to set up an "oh no zombie danger" type situation where someone does something stupid.

I get why it's wildly popular and as mentioned the alternatives in the horror genre are just not all that good. Also TV just hasn't done action well in a long time and this kind of stands alone in its space.

[Lathum]

I'm still on season four but the baby? They ate the fucking baby ?!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm still on season four but the baby? They ate the fucking baby ?!

Yeah, it was gross.

[Edward64]

Saw the season premiere in the Sun re-run. It was okay.

The second episode is sucking so far.

[cthomer5000]

I love that she was going to try to shoot open the trunk of the car before simply pulling the trunk release from the interior of the car. Even by Walking Dead standards, that is some laughable logic.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I love that she was going to try to shoot open the trunk of the car before simply pulling the trunk release from the interior of the car. Even by Walking Dead standards, that is some laughable logic.

Well, she was exhausted, hungry, dehydrated, frustrated, likely mortified and shaken at what she saw in the trunk, and then angry at herself for just walking away at first. I dunno about you, but even under ideal circumstances when inanimate objects don't do what they are designed to do, I can get pretty annoyed and lash out in ways that don't make any logical sense. Put me under those conditions and give me a gun at my side? Yeah, I might easily go for that option too. I know it's not logical, but people are rarely all that logical at the best of times. It was a true moment. Solid writing.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Also, Cutty being overpowered by a zombie, ya no....

Well he had just been bitten by a zombie. I've never been bitten by a zombie before, but I have a feeling that I'd be a little easier to take down if that happened.

[Draft Dodger]

FWIW, I thought this was a solid episode. I'm on record as wanting them to show more of the survival stuff, so that was a nice touch. Really liked that closing shot of the two girls with their guns drawn with the music box in the foreground

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

FWIW, I thought this was a solid episode. I'm on record as wanting them to show more of the survival stuff, so that was a nice touch. Really liked that closing shot of the two girls with their guns drawn with the music box in the foreground

Yeah, I loved that shot. The music box itself was a bit cliche, but that shot alone was worth it. A thing of beauty.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Well, she was exhausted, hungry, dehydrated, frustrated, likely mortified and shaken at what she saw in the trunk, and then angry at herself for just walking away at first. I dunno about you, but even under ideal circumstances when inanimate objects don't do what they are designed to do, I can get pretty annoyed and lash out in ways that don't make any logical sense. Put me under those conditions and give me a gun at my side? Yeah, I might easily go for that option too. I know it's not logical, but people are rarely all that logical at the best of times. It was a true moment. Solid writing.

And I would buy that if this was some mildly complex problem-solving scenario, and not an activity she would presumably have engaged in literally THOUSANDS of times at this point (searching an abandoned car).

You know how some days you can barely remember driving to work, because it's so well ingrained that you can do it without actively focusing on it? I would imagine the act of searching a car for supplies would be the equivalent after this length of time in this situation.

I know what they were going for, but the execution was poor. That is the case with 90% of this show.

While the thematic moment might have been real, the execution was trash. Par for the course.

[DanGarion]

Gah, I'm tired of all the complaints. The show is good either watch it or don't, but it seems like people really are reaching on their complaints of the show.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

And I would buy that if this was some mildly complex problem-solving scenario, and not an activity she would presumably have engaged in literally THOUSANDS of times at this point (searching an abandoned car).

You know how some days you can barely remember driving to work, because it's so well ingrained that you can do it without actively focusing on it? I would imagine the act of searching a car for supplies would be the equivalent after this length of time in this situation.

I know what they were going for, but the execution was poor. That is the case with 90% of this show.

While the thematic moment might have been real, the execution was trash. Par for the course.

Eh. I totally disagree. I thought they got exactly what they were aiming for. It was done well. As is the case with, about, 75% of this show. More hits than misses, but certainly not perfect. It's definitely a step below greats like "The Wire" or "Breaking Bad" or the "Sopranos", but it's firmly in that second tier.

As for this particular moment. I dunno what you'd want. I've made toast and pop tarts literally THOUSANDS of times, but that still didn't stop me from punching my toaster one morning and denting it badly because it burned the shit out of my pop tarts and burned my fingers when I went to grab one, and I was tired, super hungry, and late for work. Was that logical at all? No. But I was tired, hungry, late, stressed and pissed and it happened.

Have you ever not reacted out of anger and frustration in some incredibly illogical and foolish way in the heat of the moment?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

it's firmly in that second tier.

I disagree strongly with this. There is nothing wrong with Walking Dead, its fine. But shows that are still airing right now that I'd put in that second tier... The Americans, Justified, Hannibal, Game of Thrones, I'm sure I'm missing some... Walking Dead is a huge, huge step below that. The writing can't remotely come close to any of those shows. Hannibal and Game of Thrones look better. I'm saying this as someone who generally enjoys Walking Dead. I have no problem suspending disbelief on general realism things, whatever. But the show could be SO MUCH BETTER, but its just not, and at this point we know what we're going to get. And I'm ok with that, so I've stopped complaining so much in here and just enjoy the parts I enjoy.

Walking Dead is way better than all the procedural crap on CBS, better than any reality TV. Its better than tons of garbage all over the place. But its noooowhere near a "second tier" just behind the wire or other shows you mentioned, IMO.

As for this particular moment. I dunno what you'd want.

Yeah I have no problem with this. If I have any concern about the scene its in the use of the gun at all, not "oh i can just go pop the trunk." You'd think "don't use bullets unnecessarily, don't make loud noises unnecessarily" would trump any sort of emotional distress. But whatever, I don't have a huge issue with this and am more than willing to ignore it for the sake of TV.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Gah, I'm tired of all the complaints. The show is good either watch it or don't, but it seems like people really are reaching on their complaints of the show.

Meh, it seems like the defenders are really reaching to justify everything that happens.

Radii said it best. It's better then alot of the crap on TV, but it could be so much better then it is.

There's nothing wrong with liking the show, its just not the best piece of TV ever made. Not even close.

[cthomer5000]

For the passive-aggressive inquiries as to why I still watch:

I am pot-committed on Walking Dead at this point, just as I was with Lost. It has massively squandered an interesting premise and an initially interesting cast. At the same time I've put in enough time that I'm going to see it through to the end. I wouldn't get 500 pages into a 700 page book and give up, even if I wasn't enjoying it.

It has also consistently ignored it's only fully-developed, interesting characters (Carol and Daryl) in favor of screen time with any other number of vacuums of personality (Beth).

It' also barely even looked into characters like Glenn, who seemed immediately interesting when introduced to the show.

As I've said repeatedly, they re-write these characters to be as dumb as necessary to suit a particular episode, constantly counting on viewers to be enough of amnesiacs to reconcile their behavior.

After ages on the road, these characters somehow still cannot search a house in a methodical manner or look through an empty car without forgetting how mechanisms to open them even work. But hey, some people accept that as not merely passable but "great" writing, so I guess they are succeeding.

[larrymcg421]

Come again? In what universe has The Walking Dead "consistently ignored" Daryl?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

For the passive-aggressive inquiries as to why I still watch:

I am pot-committed on Walking Dead at this point, just as I was with Lost. It has massively squandered an interesting premise and an initially interesting cast. At the same time I've put in enough time that I'm going to see it through to the end. I wouldn't get 500 pages into a 700 page book and give up, even if I wasn't enjoying it.

It has also consistently ignored it's only fully-developed, interesting characters (Carol and Daryl) in favor of screen time with any other number of vacuums of personality (Beth).

It' also barely even looked into characters like Glenn, who seemed immediately interesting when introduced to the show.

As I've said repeatedly, they re-write these characters to be as dumb as necessary to suit a particular episode, constantly counting on viewers to be enough of amnesiacs to reconcile their behavior.

After ages on the road, these characters somehow still cannot search a house in a methodical manner or look through an empty car without forgetting how mechanisms to open them even work. But hey, some people accept that as not merely passable but "great" writing, so I guess they are succeeding.

I feel the characters are written pretty consistently. In Season 2, Lori kept flip flopping back and forth between almost being Lady MacBeth like in her desire for Rick to get rid of Shane and mortified at the very thought of anything happening to Shane. It was odd. Then there was that one episode after the prison where Carl was an ass and a that tub of chocolate pudding. That seemed very out of character based on where Carl had progressed during his time in the prison. Those instances stand out to me.

I'm not sure what show you're watching where Daryl is "consistently ignored". He gets as much screen time as any character on the show. It's a large assemble cast. Screen time will be limited and some characters will be more major than other. After Rick, maybe Carl, Daryl is solidly number three. I think what they've done with Carol - going from where she started to where she's at - has been on the most interesting character transformations you'll find on TV anywhere, anytime. She gets plenty. Glenn is Glenn. I think they do right by him. Would the show benefit from culling the cast down a bit? Maybe. But that's not really the show.

The other picayune (I do loves me that word) stuff you mentioned doesn't bother me. I think they do a fair enough job showing how far the group has come in terms of surviving in this world. Sure, they slip up at times because emotions get the best of them. Like you mentioned in an earlier post, at some point this stuff becomes rote. It'd be hard to be at your best at all times, methodical at all times. I assume that they do a good job of sweeping and clearing houses and searching cars off-screen. They only show us the dramatic shit, when people slip up and things go wrong.

I could see where it would be hard to stop watching "Lost", because the nature of that show. As for "The Walking Dead", I don't quite get it. As I've mentioned before one of the struggles this show - and the comic - has is that there is no real end point. No massive arc to complete. It's a story about a group of people surviving in the zombie apocalypse. That's pretty much it. Characters have individual arcs, but there's no mystery to solve, no bad guy to catch, to great villain to defeat, or no real end game other than surviving or dying. It tends to lend itself to wandering and stagnating at times.

That said, keep watching! I don't mind the dialogue. When I have the time, I'll gladly defend the show where I feel it's warranted and happily agree when I think the criticism is valid.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Meh, it seems like the defenders are really reaching to justify everything that happens.

Radii said it best. It's better then alot of the crap on TV, but it could be so much better then it is.

There's nothing wrong with liking the show, its just not the best piece of TV ever made. Not even close.

No one ever claimed it was the best piece of TV ever made or even close.

I don't feel like I'm really reaching to justify everything that happens. Like I said, there is a ton of criticism that's totally legit and justified. I criticize the show plenty. But where I think people are off, I'll defend the show.

It's not my fault that I'm more reasonable and objective than most!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Radii

I disagree strongly with this. There is nothing wrong with Walking Dead, its fine. But shows that are still airing right now that I'd put in that second tier... The Americans, Justified, Hannibal, Game of Thrones, I'm sure I'm missing some... Walking Dead is a huge, huge step below that. The writing can't remotely come close to any of those shows. Hannibal and Game of Thrones look better. I'm saying this as someone who generally enjoys Walking Dead. I have no problem suspending disbelief on general realism things, whatever. But the show could be SO MUCH BETTER, but its just not, and at this point we know what we're going to get. And I'm ok with that, so I've stopped complaining so much in here and just enjoy the parts I enjoy.

Walking Dead is way better than all the procedural crap on CBS, better than any reality TV. Its better than tons of garbage all over the place. But its noooowhere near a "second tier" just behind the wire or other shows you mentioned, IMO.

I think it fits. I'm never going to rag on The Americans, Hannibal, or Game of Thrones. Those are three of my favorite shows on right now. In fact, last season of The Americans might have been my favorite show last year. It was fantastic.

That said, there are only two shows that I actually watch when they air (or close to it): Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead.

The Walking Dead may have more warts than those other shows, in fact, no doubt it does, but, second season aside, which was largely weak, I still think it fits.

I can't compare these shows to all the procedural crap on CBS, because I've never watched them. I aint got time for that!

[Lathum]

Ok. Creepy girl just killed her sister. This show is so fucked.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Ok. Creepy girl just killed her sister. This show is so fucked.

Maybe but one of the better (and intense) episodes so far.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Maybe but one of the better (and intense) episodes so far.

Yes. That was a very good episode.

[Chief Rum]

That was an incredible episode, one of my favorites. And yeah, super creepy.