Official 2009-10 College Basketball Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Oh vey, what sort of "negative recruiting" would other coaches use?

That's pretty obvious I'd think: "y'know, when Coach X bails out from over there, you're going to get stuck with whatever follows or be forced into going somewhere you really don't want to be".

[MrBug708]

That seems like a dumb assumption without any knowledge into who the successor would actually be

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That seems like a dumb assumption without any knowledge into who the successor would actually be

Umm, what would that have to do with anything (up front at least)? It's not the end result you're selling to the player, it's the uncertainty that you're highlighting.

Y'know, if you're recruiting against UGA (just for an example I can do easily) then there's just as much chance that the new coach is a Ron Jirsa as there is that it's a Mark Fox.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm, what would that have to do with anything (up front at least)? It's not the end result you're selling to the player, it's the uncertainty that you're highlighting.

There is always uncertainty, but not at a raised level because a recruit wasn't released for an LOI.

Y'know, if you're recruiting against UGA (just for an example I can do easily) then there's just as much chance that the new coach is a Ron Jirsa as there is that it's a Mark Fox.

Which relates to an LOI...how?

My whole point Im confused about is how you can negatively recruit against someone that doesn't release players from an LOI. I can understand maybe saying that coach is an a-hole, but I dont think that would discourage a player from going there.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

There is always uncertainty, but not at a raised level because a recruit wasn't released for an LOI.

Which relates to an LOI...how?

My whole point Im confused about is how you can negatively recruit against someone that doesn't release players from an LOI. I can understand maybe saying that coach is an a-hole, but I dont think that would discourage a player from going there.

In the current college game, there's an expectation by most student athletes that they will be able to transfer to a different school if the coach they were recruited by is ever fired or takes a new job elsewhere. If a school were to fail to release a player from a LOI, it's extremely detrimental to that coach's future recruiting. The kids face uncertainty as to how they will be treated if that new coach only lasts 2-3 years and they end up in the same position as those current players. And you can be certain that ever coach recruiting them is going to remind them of that fact, which is negative recruiting. It's very effective when dealing with 18 year old kids and it happens all the time when coaching changes occur and there's the slightest notion that kids may be held to a LOI.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In the current college game, there's an expectation by most student athletes that they will be able to transfer to a different school if the coach they were recruited by is ever fired or takes a new job elsewhere. If a school were to fail to release a player from a LOI, it's extremely detrimental to that coach's future recruiting. The kids face uncertainty as to how they will be treated if that new coach only lasts 2-3 years and they end up in the same position as those current players. And you can be certain that ever coach recruiting them is going to remind them of that fact, which is negative recruiting. It's very effective when dealing with 18 year old kids and it happens all the time when coaching changes occur and there's the slightest notion that kids may be held to a LOI.

I'm sure some coach some where would use this as a negative recruiting tool. So I agree in theory with MBBF. I'm sure there are some naive high school athletes that would fall for it as well. But the fact is most coaches won't force a player to stay with their program if they don't want to be there. Most athletic departments won't allow players to transfer until they've spoken with the new coach. Once that conversation takes place it is normally the coach's discretion on allowing that player to transfer or not. I can't think of too many coaches that wouldn't allow a disgruntled player to transfer. There may be limitations on where they can transfer, but that's it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

I'm sure some coach some where would use this as a negative recruiting tool. So I agree in theory with MBBF. I'm sure there are some naive high school athletes that would fall for it as well. But the fact is most coaches won't force a player to stay with their program if they don't want to be there. Most athletic departments won't allow players to transfer until they've spoken with the new coach. Once that conversation takes place it is normally the coach's discretion on allowing that player to transfer or not. I can't think of too many coaches that wouldn't allow a disgruntled player to transfer. There may be limitations on where they can transfer, but that's it.

What you're saying goes right back to MBBF's point - that a release is pretty much the accepted norm (even with some conditions, typically regarding conference foes and/or teams on your schedule) but that a program that refused to grant a release would face negative recruiting with that refusal being evidence in hand of "see what can happen?".

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In the current college game, there's an expectation by most student athletes that they will be able to transfer to a different school if the coach they were recruited by is ever fired or takes a new job elsewhere. If a school were to fail to release a player from a LOI, it's extremely detrimental to that coach's future recruiting. The kids face uncertainty as to how they will be treated if that new coach only lasts 2-3 years and they end up in the same position as those current players. And you can be certain that ever coach recruiting them is going to remind them of that fact, which is negative recruiting. It's very effective when dealing with 18 year old kids and it happens all the time when coaching changes occur and there's the slightest notion that kids may be held to a LOI.

But that makes little sense. What added uncertainty would there be? That coach is no longer in the program so that uncertainty isnt there. And if he moves onto another program, he didnt recruit those players anyways so it's irrelevant to situation

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What you're saying goes right back to MBBF's point - that a release is pretty much the accepted norm (even with some conditions, typically regarding conference foes and/or teams on your schedule) but that a program that refused to grant a release would face negative recruiting with that refusal being evidence in hand of "see what can happen?".

As I said, I agree in principal with MBBF, but I just don't think the negative recruiting image is the primary reason for schools to allow players a pass on the LOI. I think the primary reason is the new coach simply doesn't want a malcontent on his roster. He'd rather have that scholarship available to recruit his own player.

[Logan]

Source: Rutgers to file tampering charges against USC | mycentraljersey.com | MyCentralJersey.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

But that makes little sense. What added uncertainty would there be? That coach is no longer in the program so that uncertainty isnt there.

Okay, I gotta ask: are you being intentionally obtuse.

With some sort of release being the norm, if a school refuses to grant one (for whatever reason) then they're going to face an additional hurdle in recruiting for at least the next several years.

You're recruit X, a rising HS senior. You're leaning toward BigConferenceMiddlingTeam State U but you aren't sold yet

-- Coach A left BCMTSU and they refused to grant recruit B a release
-- Coach C has been hired at BCMTSU but who knows how that's going to work out for him - great & he'll leave for his alma mater, badly & he'll be fired
-- Do you really want to risk being screwed over just like recruit B was?

This really isn't brain surgery, failing to grant releases is bad for future recruiting. It may not be terminal, it may not be the only motivation for school's to release players, but it's definitely something the can be used on the recruiting trail.

[MrBug708]

Your argument seems to be based on schools telling a kid that when you are unhappy at the school the kid actually picks. Your problem seems to be in the assumption that a kid will land at a place he plans on tranferring from in a year. What recruit picks a school that he knows he will transfer from in a year or so?

I'm not being obtuse, just haven't seen a valid argument that could be used in negative recruiting is all

[whomario]

Apparently there´s "high up people" in turkish basketball claiming Kanter got paid up to 600K in 4 years with no contract but bank receipts available. Can´t believe that number (come on, he was 13 at the time the payments allegedly started ...) or that there isn´t a contract going with such a huge number, but that could turn out to be a road block...
(draftexpress twitter )


Think it fits here as good as anywhere, has anyone else seen the hoop summit game yesterday ?

The US won the hoop summit again after loosing last year, very entertaining and close game with the end result of 101-97 US.

As per ususal, poor guard play limited the International squad.

Stadouts US :

Harrison Barnes - Very explosive scorer, off the dribble as well as shooting the ball, amazing size for a legit 2 guard (can play SF as well obviously and likely will some on the college level) with nice athleticism. Very few mistakes, passing needs some work. Looks like a one and done player to me ...

Jared Sullinger - Very nice skillset offensively, good size and athleticism. Just a real good big guy. Great hands. Not so hot rebounding technique and defensive rotations, got dominated defensively by Kanter.

Also liked Kyrie Irving (good solid playmaking) and Terrence Jones (good defense on and off the ball) .

standouts US :

Enes Kanter - 34/13 in 24 minutes (no foul trouble, the international coach just tried to give everyone good minutes). Um, yeah that pretty much tells the story... Just an incredible effective scorer on the low block who can also hit the 15 footer and scores in a variety of ways inside. Good rebounder as well. Simply put, if he´s eligible he might put up numbers close to what Cousins put up this year and will be one and done as well.

Nikola Mirotic - Very versatile player, 6´10 guy that can put the ball on the floor, pass and shoot but doesn´t shy away from contact, decent rebounder.

the college-bound guys looked ok (Thompson), so-so (Joseph) and terrible (Dukan)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What recruit picks a school that he knows he will transfer from in a year or so?

Ask the ones who follow coaches (or leave right after a coach makes his exit)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like Wake Forest will be signing Bzdelik away from Colorado. Good hire. He's a very good coach.

Source: Jeff Bzdelik of Colorado Buffaloes intends to tell team he's leaving for Wake Forest Demon Deacons - ESPN

[MrBug708]

Who knows if he'll be a good recruiter but if he can find gems like Alec Burks, who cares

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Big news for Mizzou this morning. They just landed the #1 Juco player in the class of 2010. PF Ricardo Ratliffe announced via his Facebook page that he would not take his Cincinnati visit next week and would be attending Mizzou in the fall. In addition, Juco SG Matt Pressey (brother of Mizzou commit Phil Pressey) also announced he will be attending Mizzou in the fall. Ratliffe's commitment should boost Mizzou's 2010 recruiting class ranking even further.

Ricardo Ratliffe profile:

Ricardo Ratliffe - Yahoo! Sports

Matt Pressey profile:

Matt Pressey - Yahoo! Sports

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

It sounds like Paul has been unhappy with his playing time and is transferring on his own. If that is the case then I have no problem with it. However if this is a Kentucky like thing where we recruit a kid and then the program gets better and we try and push the less talented kids out I can't say that I am happy about it. They should definitely honor their scholarships. I am not saying that Anderson has to play Paul at all but if paul wants to stay on the team and get a degree from Mizzou it should be on him. Anderson has never given any indication to be this type of coach (so I will give him the benefit of the doubt) but there really is a fine line being potentially crossed here.

Just a follow up Panerd. Here's what Paul posted on his Facebook. Should remove any doubt as to whether it was his choice.

"I love the mizzou fans, my fans and the team. God knows they are like my brothers but its time for me to move on for a better opportunity for my family and I. I wouldn't trade these last two years for nothing. Good luck Mizzou. I WILL ALWAYS BE A TIGER even when i am gone."

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just a follow up Panerd. Here's what Paul posted on his Facebook. Should remove any doubt as to whether it was his choice.

Cool. I just don't want our recent success to get to our heads. I don't think Anderson is Quin at all but I do remember our fans slowly allowing the integrity of our program to slip bit by bit in the early 2000's until we were all wondering how in the hell we got to where we were.

By the way why are all these players coming to Mizzou with Anderson's pending moves to Oregon and Arkansas?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

By the way why are all these players coming to Mizzou with Anderson's pending moves to Oregon and Arkansas?

Actually, Ratliffe was the big reason why the Arkansas fans were hoping the Anderson rumors were true. Ratliffe had Arkansas in his final list (along with Clemson, Alabama, and Cinci). The commitment today obviously confirms their thoughts that Anderson had an 'in' with Ratliffe.

I've heard that Mrs. Anderson (as she has been with several recruits when their mom visits campus with them) was a huge factor in landing Ratliffe.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by whomario

Apparently there´s "high up people" in turkish basketball claiming Kanter got paid up to 600K in 4 years with no contract but bank receipts available. Can´t believe that number (come on, he was 13 at the time the payments allegedly started ...) or that there isn´t a contract going with such a huge number, but that could turn out to be a road block...
(draftexpress twitter )

That wouldn't surprise me. It seemed the UW backed off on his commitment as much as Kanter decided to look around, and I'd guess Romar was starting to hear legitimate concerns that Kanter was probably not going to get to play much (if at all) at the college level because of his overseas Euro league games, i.e. he got paid despite his declarations to the contrary.

And it's because of these kinds of deals (no contract, but a kid was paid) that the NCAA has their current rules in place for kids that play on professional teams.

[MJ4H]

The "pending" move to Arkansas died when our AD didn't cave to pressure and fire Pelphrey. (which was exactly what I said was the only thing standing in the way)

And no, Arkansas fans wanting Anderson had zero to do with Ratliffe. They want Anderson because they think he will return the Hogs to the glory days of Nolan.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I've heard that Mrs. Anderson (as she has been with several recruits when their mom visits campus with them) was a huge factor in landing Ratliffe.

Might want to consider a different phrasing for what you're trying to say there

[MJ4H]

haha

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

The "pending" move to Arkansas died when our AD didn't cave to pressure and fire Pelphrey. (which was exactly what I said was the only thing standing in the way)

And no, Arkansas fans wanting Anderson had zero to do with Ratliffe. They want Anderson because they think he will return the Hogs to the glory days of Nolan.

Given your wife's previous predictive abilities, I'd be hard pressed to take this very seriously. They definitely wanted Ratliffe and it was mentioned several times in the rumor mill that Anderson was a golden ticket to do that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Might want to consider a different phrasing for what you're trying to say there

Yes, I suppose I should consider the audience.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Given your wife's previous predictive abilities, I'd be hard pressed to take this very seriously. They definitely wanted Ratliffe and it was mentioned several times in the rumor mill that Anderson was a golden ticket to do that.

This has nothing to do with my wife, and she nor my source predicted anything, so I have no idea what that even means.

Of course Arkansas wanted Ratliffe, but it had nothing to do with Mike Anderson. The best in for Arkansas with Ratliffe was Marshawn Powell.

[MizzouRah]

Nice MBBF! Can't wait for next year!

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

This has nothing to do with my wife, and she nor my source predicted anything, so I have no idea what that even means.

Of course Arkansas wanted Ratliffe, but it had nothing to do with Mike Anderson. The best in for Arkansas with Ratliffe was Marshawn Powell.

You must be new here.

Clearly, you are not aware of the fact that everything in college basketball has one degree of separation from Missouri and/or Mike Anderson.

[Izulde]

Well, at least I won't be in Fayetteville next year to see Pelphrey continue sucking.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

You must be new here.

Clearly, you are not aware of the fact that everything in college basketball has one degree of separation from Missouri and/or Mike Anderson.

Where's my slow clap icon?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

This has nothing to do with my wife, and she nor my source predicted anything, so I have no idea what that even means.

Of course Arkansas wanted Ratliffe, but it had nothing to do with Mike Anderson. The best in for Arkansas with Ratliffe was Marshawn Powell.

I'm with MJ4H. If you go back and read I'm pretty sure he predicted Pelphrey would be staying at Arkansas because of the AD. He suggested that some of the donors were putting pressure on the AD to fire Pelphrey and hire Anderson, but that it was unlikely the AD would cave. And if I remember correctly he's not exactly a big fan of Anderson so it's not as if he was rooting for it to happen.

Personally, I think if the Arkansas job opens up that they should take a long hard look at Turgeon. I think the Arkansas job is one of those that he would be very interested in.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yes, I suppose I should consider the audience.

Actually I was thinking of some jokes made about Mrs. Kiffin along those lines, figured I probably wasn't the only one who would see the potential for "comedic misinterpretation".

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Looks like Wake Forest will be signing Bzdelik away from Colorado. Good hire. He's a very good coach.

Source: Jeff Bzdelik of Colorado Buffaloes intends to tell team he's leaving for Wake Forest Demon Deacons - ESPN

I really liked Bzdelik and will be sorry to see him go if he does accept the offer as rumored. I'm not sure where the Buffs go next.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

This has nothing to do with my wife, and she nor my source predicted anything, so I have no idea what that even means.

Really?

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I know what information is there. That's because it is fact. Why would it be different information? Some of those people have talked to the same source I have (if you knew where my wife worked, you'd understand, and no I'm not going to tell that in public--consider that telling of something besides I don't like to give out that kind of information to a bunch of randos on the internet if you want, I really don't care).

Regardless, I think it's very clear that the notion that Anderson was considering Arkansas or that Nolan Richardson had indicated that Anderson would go to Arkansas if offered were both devoid of any factual backing, which is exactly what I had made perfectly clear the entire time.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

You must be new here.

Clearly, you are not aware of the fact that everything in college basketball has one degree of separation from Missouri and/or Mike Anderson.

Assimilation is inevitable.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Really?



Regardless, I think it's very clear that the notion that Anderson was considering Arkansas or that Nolan Richardson had indicated that Anderson would go to Arkansas if offered were both devoid of any factual backing, which is exactly what I had made perfectly clear the entire time.

Yes, really. Neither this nor that had anything to do with my wife. Yes, where my wife worked has something to do with it because of who it means I get to talk to. Not her. You can think what you want of what is clear. I never mentioned Nolan Richardson indicating anything, so again, I have no idea where that is coming from.

So again, you can continue to think that Anderson didn't say he'd come if offered, I don't care. I have absolutely no reason to make it up.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Yes, really. Neither this nor that had anything to do with my wife. Yes, where my wife worked has something to do with it because of who it means I get to talk to. Not her. You can think what you want of what is clear. I never mentioned Nolan Richardson indicating anything, so again, I have no idea where that is coming from.

So again, you can continue to think that Anderson didn't say he'd come if offered, I don't care. I have absolutely no reason to make it up.

Fair enough. At least you know to look elsewhere for good information next time. That source has his head up a hog's backside.

[MJ4H]

Guess again. He was right on as was confirmed by other people that were talking to the other people involved. If it was just one person that I know, I wouldn't have said a word. The only reason I said anything was because of the multiple parties involved talking to different people in different places all saying the same thing at the same time.

If it makes you feel better to keep saying it isn't true, feel free to continue. I'm done defending it, and I'll reiterate that I have no reason to make this up.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Yes, really. Neither this nor that had anything to do with my wife. Yes, where my wife worked has something to do with it because of who it means I get to talk to. Not her. You can think what you want of what is clear. I never mentioned Nolan Richardson indicating anything, so again, I have no idea where that is coming from.

So again, you can continue to think that Anderson didn't say he'd come if offered, I don't care. I have absolutely no reason to make it up.

I think Anderson was never coming. I have never said you were making any of this up, just that your sources were completely wrong. You are like Kramer in the Seinfeld epiosode where Jerry bets him that he won't put levels in his apartment and then Kramer decides not to do it but claims he still could if he wanted to so he didn't lose the bet. Anderson didn't leave for Arkansas, so your sources were wrong. Spin it all you want if it makes you feel like Arkansas is somehow a better job than Missouri.

My sources say that all of Arkansas football recruits want to transfer to Mizzou. But only if the AD fires Gary Pinkel. So if the AD doesn't fire Pinkel my sources still are 100% correct. See it's easy to set-up no lose situations.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

You must be new here.

Clearly, you are not aware of the fact that everything in college basketball has one degree of separation from Missouri and/or Mike Anderson.

He spent about a page claiming Arkansas basketball could have Anderson if they wanted so while your joke would probably work 99% of the time this situation was actually a creation of MJ4H.

[JeeberD]

So apparently Dwayne Polee, L.A. City Section Player of the Year who verballed to USC and Tim Floyd in 8th grade, is now considering the Miners (as well as UNLV and Georgia) now instead. The kid has some very impressive videos out there, he would be a very nice get for the Miners...

Polee Sr. is the director of basketball operations for USC, a school to which Polee Jr. had verbally committed before he ever played a high school game.

But when Coach Tim Floyd left USC, so did Polee's commitment. He still has not picked his college, but he has narrowed his choices to UNLV, UTEP and Georgia.

Floyd was just named the head coach at UTEP.

"I'll choose in a couple of weeks," Polee said.

Daily Breeze Boys Basketball Player of the Year: Westchester's Dwayne Polee - The Daily Breeze

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by panerd

I think Anderson was never coming. I have never said you were making any of this up, just that your sources were completely wrong. You are like Kramer in the Seinfeld epiosode where Jerry bets him that he won't put levels in his apartment and then Kramer decides not to do it but claims he still could if he wanted to so he didn't lose the bet. Anderson didn't leave for Arkansas, so your sources were wrong. Spin it all you want if it makes you feel like Arkansas is somehow a better job than Missouri.

My sources say that all of Arkansas football recruits want to transfer to Mizzou. But only if the AD fires Gary Pinkel. So if the AD doesn't fire Pinkel my sources still are 100% correct. See it's easy to set-up no lose situations.

Panerd, I hate to break this to you but Arkansas basketball is a better job than Missouri basketball. They have better fan support and their basketball history is much stronger. Currently you have a better coach, but that doesn't make the job itself better. It just means you have a better coach.

Again, I don't recall MJ4H ever predicting Anderson was leaving Missouri for Arkansas. He simply reported that per his sources Anderson would be interested in the Arkansas job if it opened up. The job didn't open up so we'll never know.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Fair enough. At least you know to look elsewhere for good information next time. That source has his head up a hog's backside.

I don't think you have any ground to stand on when it comes to questioning people's sources. Your sources haven't been solid by any means.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by panerd

He spent about a page claiming Arkansas basketball could have Anderson if they wanted so while your joke would probably work 99% of the time this situation was actually a creation of MJ4H.

If that makes you feel better. (and it was only a page because people get crapping all over me--it would've been one post otherwise)

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

So apparently Dwayne Polee, L.A. City Section Player of the Year who verballed to USC and Tim Floyd in 8th grade, is now considering the Miners (as well as UNLV and Georgia) now instead. The kid has some very impressive videos out there, he would be a very nice get for the Miners...



Daily Breeze Boys Basketball Player of the Year: Westchester's Dwayne Polee - The Daily Breeze

JeeberD,

What's your take on the hiring of Floyd given the investigation at USC? I think he's an excellent hire for UTEP. Good coach and recruiter who should definitely raise the bar at UTEP.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by panerd

Anderson didn't leave for Arkansas, so your sources were wrong. Spin it all you want if it makes you feel like Arkansas is somehow a better job than Missouri.

This is incorrect. I said at the time that the source didn't say Anderson was coming, I said he would if offered but the AD wasn't budging and that (here is the part that you guys keep ignoring) pressure was being applied by money people to make him change his mind. The whole reason that the pressure was being applied was because Anderson said he would come. Otherwise, the pressure wasn't even going to happen.

I then posted here the moment that the pressure failed saying it was over. So, no, you don't get to say that it was all wrong because Anderson didn't show up.

And, no I don't need this to prove Arkansas is a better program. It is demonstrably NOT right now and this wouldn't change that. It has a better history, but that also wouldn't be affected by this. You are just creating reasons why I would be making this up. I am not making this up.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by panerd

He spent about a page claiming Arkansas basketball could have Anderson if they wanted so while your joke would probably work 99% of the time this situation was actually a creation of MJ4H.

This is a humorously ironic statement, considering your previous post.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Panerd, I hate to break this to you but Arkansas basketball is a better job than Missouri basketball. They have better fan support and their basketball history is much stronger. Currently you have a better coach, but that doesn't make the job itself better. It just means you have a better coach.

Originally Posted by MJ4H

And, no I don't need this to prove Arkansas is a better program. It is demonstrably NOT right now and this wouldn't change that. It has a better history, but that also wouldn't be affected by this.

One of these posters is honest enough to admit the current status of the Missouri and Arkansas programs. The other.......not so much.

[MJ4H]

He said job, not program. The fan support alone makes his point for him, and I agree with him.