FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[molson]

Originally Posted by nol

Oh, exactly! I'm not willing to listen to any person's ideas for what they are unless they have proven themselves capable of overcoming the proper amount of adversity as I see fit (and if they're too uppity about it like all those Black Lives Matter protesters, you can forget about it).

I guess this is sarcasm, (at this point I think you might actually be an AI bot rather than a real human with feelings, because your posts are starting to contradict each other), but no, I don't think adversity is the only thing that qualifies one to have an opinion and to be involved in positive community change. But it does inspire a lot of people to do better, and to strike back against unjust systems. And usually pissed off angry people who have suffered some loss are the ones willing to go the furthest for what they believe in.

[RainMaker]

Violent rioting in Milwaukee overnight over a violent criminal being killed by police as he ran from a stolen car with his stolen gun.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Violent rioting in Milwaukee overnight over a violent criminal being killed by police as he ran from a stolen car with his stolen gun.

Hopefully the arrests for arson and inciting violence are racially proportionate.

[NobodyHere]

I suppose when unemployment is a problem in your community the answer is to burn down businesses?

[PilotMan]

Hopefully the BLM group separates themselves from this situation, which clearly looks like someone doing their job as opposed to unwarranted attention or overaggressive tactics. In the USA Today, someone said they were outraged because he was "a really good guy." Whatever, I guess Jerry Sandusky was a really good guy too.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Hopefully the BLM group separates themselves from this situation...

Is BLM really a "group," with an organizational structure, or is it more of a movement? Is there a President/CEO/ExDir that can issue an official statement? From what I've observed "the group" doesn't really exist, or am I missing something?

[Ben E Lou]

...and whether it's a "group" or a "movement," this whole thing isn't helping the cause.

[Izulde]

OTOH, you have things like this:

Trooper draws gun on tourists for rental car mistaken as stolen | Crime and Courts | azdailysun.com

Guy said on his FB post that if he wasn't a 48 year old scrawny white dude, he would have ended up dead. Which, honestly, I can believe. Sounded like this officer was jacked up on momentum and was very rash in his protocols.

[PilotMan]

Look I'm as ardent of a supporter of fair treatment of minorities and I've said many harsh things regarding the police, but like Ben said, this guy isn't a great spokesman for the community. Ben's also right too, that BLM is more of a movement rather than a group, but the ACLU is a group, and the Rainbow Coalition is a group (or used to be). There are plenty of figures that can lead in a situation such as this. When the police have to take 2 steps to admit that they need to change, other groups need to take at least 1 to do the same.

[Ben E Lou]

He's worse than "isn't a great spokesman." "They not like you know tryna give us none" is going to become the next "Obama is going to pay my mortgage" for the far right. (And this one was much more explicit.)

[Ben E Lou]

But yes, that's the point: there are real issues that need to be dealt with. This foolishness hurts. There was this boy who cried "wolf," you see....

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I suppose when unemployment is a problem in your community the answer is to burn down businesses?

You get the neighborhood you deserve sometimes.

[stevew]

Don't the people of Milwaukee know that it's only acceptable to have this much unrest and destruction if your team wins a sporting title?

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Hopefully the BLM group separates themselves from this situation, which clearly looks like someone doing their job as opposed to unwarranted attention or overaggressive tactics. In the USA Today, someone said they were outraged because he was "a really good guy." Whatever, I guess Jerry Sandusky was a really good guy too.

I heard Sandusky was a very touching guy.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Is BLM really a "group," with an organizational structure, or is it more of a movement? Is there a President/CEO/ExDir that can issue an official statement? From what I've observed "the group" doesn't really exist, or am I missing something?

This, this, this, this and more this.

There is no organization, no spokesperson, no plan. Nobody to say "We need to look at each shooting and see if it was justified" Nobody to say "Dallas was a sad day for our organization" Essentially, what we get in terms of media quotes is the family or like the guy above. The family is wrecked, they just lost a loved one. There is no logic (and for the first couple of day while they digest the information there really should be no logic. Their loved one is dead. He may have been a bad guy, but they aren't thinking of that right now.) So the family comes out and says "teddy bear, good guy, always there for the family, never did anything to hurt anyone" We heard it with Michael Brown and a ton of other high profile cases and now we are hearing it no matter how cut and dry the case is.

The people who are "against" the black lives matter movement are labeled racists and as people who just don't understand or want to understand. For some people, it's true, they are. But for most of us? It isn't. We see the damage it's doing. I put "against" in quotes because the reality is that there are VERY FEW people who are against the message of BLM. Most of America is for police cameras. A vast majority of Americans want impartial investigations of ALL police shootings.

Thing is, not many in white America would be protesting a police shooting based off of the facts currently out there. Forget the guys history, forget everything outside of the final seconds of his life. He had a gun, he was told to drop it, he didn't comply.

No, family of guy who was killed, you DO NOT tase someone in that situation. You bring them down. You want to go home and see your children, your wife, your mom. There is really no room for discussion on this point for rational thinking adults. A very clear distinction of right/wrong.

The lack of a spokesperson or organization for BLM and the protesting of these kinds of deaths is pretty poor for BLM. The 1% movement died because of the lack of leadership. I don't want this movement to die. I want it to thrive. But it isn't going to thrive with garbage like this. It isn't going to die either. What it's going to do is put a hold on more reform. That's heartbreaking.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Is BLM really a "group," with an organizational structure, or is it more of a movement?

They're an organized group, they do great work, and I don't like seeing them slandered. Heck, they even have a great radio station!

Originally Posted by TroyF

This, this, this, this and more this.

The Black Lives Matter movement reminds me of the eco-protesters in England when I lived there in the late-90s. No formal organization, but a movement that attracted professional activists like bees to honey. When the same names keep popping up at these events, and getting themselves in front of the cameras, it gives a sense of some sort of organization. When in reality these same people use the same lack of organization to back away when things get too bad so as to not tarnish their personal brands.

I have a lot of sympathy for the people who are actually trying to move the conversation on this forward. Unfortunately, they lose all the airtime to these professional activists, who must trade in outrage to further their own careers.

[RainMaker]

CNN Selectively Edits Police Shooting Victim’s Sister’s Words to Protesters

[EagleFan]

Quiet thread. Guess the left hasn't figured out how to spin the latest problems so they ignore it...

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Quiet thread. Guess the left hasn't figured out how to spin the latest problems so they ignore it...

I'll give it a shot...

From CNN's perspective they were just trying avoid promoting violence.

From the girl's side she was mad at the death of her brother and blamed it on whitey. I'm not sure if she knew the race of the cop when she made that statement.

[Dutch]

CNN probably did do it for that reason. The problem is they are very selective....as are all journalists and activists.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'll give it a shot...

From CNN's perspective they were just trying avoid promoting violence.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

The Black Lives Matter movement reminds me of the eco-protesters in England when I lived there in the late-90s. No formal organization, but a movement that attracted professional activists like bees to honey. When the same names keep popping up at these events, and getting themselves in front of the cameras, it gives a sense of some sort of organization. When in reality these same people use the same lack of organization to back away when things get too bad so as to not tarnish their personal brands.

I have a lot of sympathy for the people who are actually trying to move the conversation on this forward. Unfortunately, they lose all the airtime to these professional activists, who must trade in outrage to further their own careers.

Or very much like the Civil Rights Movement in the late 50s and early 60s. Lots of folks linked early Malcolm X and the Black Panthers with Martin Luther King, Jr. because the movement was organized but still flexible and open (King, Malcolm, BPs all headed their own individual organizations).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

as are all journalists and activists.

These days they are one in the same.

[NobodyHere]

Sometimes I think something is wrong with our legal system

When LSU football loses, Louisiana judges give harsher sentences, mostly to black juveniles

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

These days they are one in the same.

Very true.

[Dutch]

Ugh...another unarmed black man shot...

https://www.facebook.com/GoodMorning...3892358842061/

If more videos like this surface, we might become aware of an even bigger dilemma in this country.

[cuervo72]

Totally the same, Dutch. Totally the same.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Totally the same, Dutch. Totally the same.

Agree with your sarcasm.

[cuervo72]

Tulsa police release graphic footage of fatal shooting of Terence Crutcher | PBS NewsHour

Ok, I get that officers don't like it when you reach into your car. But why did four of them have guns trained on him when he was walking outside his stalled car? (In the press conference they referred to him as a "suspect." Suspected of what?)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/40-year-man...ry?id=42193626

"That looks like a bad dude, too," the helicopter pilot is heard saying over the intercom. That comment is not heard on the dashcam video.

Can't imagine what could have looked bad about him...

[larrymcg421]

Oh, no big deal. I'm sure after everyone digs into his history and finds one bad thing in his past, we'll get the usual "he deserved it" or "I'm not broken up about it" bullshit.

At least we've decided that Kaepernick is rich and only half black, so he's not supposed to be bothered by this.

[EagleFan]

If only we could hear more typical bullshit about how this only happens to certain people...

[larrymcg421]

Pretty sure most people have argued "disproportionate", not "only".

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Pretty sure most people have argued "disproportionate", not "only".

I wish I could believe that.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Oh, no big deal. I'm sure after everyone digs into his history and finds one bad thing in his past, we'll get the usual "he deserved it" or "I'm not broken up about it" bullshit.

At least we've decided that Kaepernick is rich and only half black, so he's not supposed to be bothered by this.

Who exactly is "we"? The country? The majority of the country? The Republican party? Some guy on right wing radio? And for those who do disagree with it, is it because he's half black or becuase they disagree with his opinion? Do more people support Megan Rapinoe or Brandon Marshall?

As for the guy in Tulsa, it's horrible. I live here and it made me ill. That man did not deserve to die. He did not deserve to get shot. Unlike a lot of these cases, we have clear video evidence which supports this. Before someone chimes in, yes, it would have been better had this guy followed police commands. The fact he didn't does not mean he deserved to take bullets.

The good thing is we have the video. I have zero doubt these officers will go down for their actions and they SHOULD go down.

[cuervo72]

FWIW, on FB I've heard a lot of complaints about Kaepernick and about the Eagles. I don't think I've heard anything about Rapinoe.

And I have less doubt than I have had in the past that the officers in this case may face consequences. Zero doubt? I can't go that far.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

FWIW, on FB I've heard a lot of complaints about Kaepernick and about the Eagles. I don't think I've heard anything about Rapinoe.

And I have less doubt than I have had in the past that the officers in this case may face consequences. Zero doubt? I can't go that far.

Maybe we should all do time as police officers. Conscription. I want to see Cuervo in action.

[cuervo72]

Never claimed I'd be a good cop. Never aspired to the profession. It didn't choose me, I didn't choose it.

We do judge employees by how well they perform their jobs, yes? Are police exempt, Dutch?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

We do judge employees by how well they perform their jobs, yes? Are police exempt, Dutch?

They have been exempt for a long time. Unions way too powerful in these cities.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Never claimed I'd be a good cop. Never aspired to the profession. It didn't choose me, I didn't choose it.

Just because you choose a job, does that instantly make you right for it? How many cops really wanted to be cops? 100%? What's if its just to make ends meet? In any event, yes, they are in that job now. Good luck. Be perfect and don't die...oh, and don't let criminals walk and terrorize the rest of us more either.

Could you imagine then that you found yourself in a job like that? Lots of Americans do. But now you're not just an accountant when your hearts in advertising. In this job, you get to pull people over that in many cases have been up to no good. Great. And you know that some percentage of people who are pulled over are going to comply with your every word. But you also know that some percentage will be willing to flee at all cost.

And now it's you standing there and you ask somebody you don't know to stand there while you approach. And the suspect instead reaches inside his car. You don't even want to be there, Cuervo. You just want to get your paycheck. And go home and see your family.

And this suspect doesn't want to be there either. And he just disobeyed your order, which was designed to keep this as civil as possible.

"Come on, dude let's not do this" you must be thinking. "Let's just go through the motions. I just want to go home to my family. Let's just get it over with."

But he's possibly not going home to his family (and obviously, in this case, he isn't now), whether he complies or not, is he, Cuervo? That's a distinct possibility. You might even be a bit nervous. You're thinking about the possibility. It's happened a few times before and many times in conversation back at the police station. And then, just as you feared, something happens. It happens in the span of 3 seconds. He just disobeyed your lawful order and reached back into his car.

Cuervo? What are you going to do? You're not a racist, Cuervo.

But he doesn't know that. You sincerely hope he's not freaking out at the sight of you, but maybe he is. Maybe he's about to go to jail for 50 years and doesn't really want to.

Maybe he isn't. Maybe it's all just a big misunderstanding, you pulled over the wrong guy. No problem, you'll clear it up and let him be on his way.

But maybe he's been telling his buddies how all cops are racist and evil. Or maybe they've been telling him that...and now he's scared. But that's not you. You're not racist or evil. You just wanted him to stand still while you approached, but now he disobeyed that and is reaching into his car.

You're going home to your family after this, right, Cuervo? You're a good man. You've done nothing towards him or anybody, ever.

But, you're a cop...you know of many stories of suspects that are desperate and want to flee...and you're in his way. You personally have had previous suspects reach into their car to grab their wallets...but you also have experiences where they reach in to get their gun.

Is he grabbing his wallet? A gun? Either are viable options on the board. You got three seconds. You know for a fact, in hindsight, that he didn't have a gun. If you chose not to shoot in this scenario, then good on ya! Based on what I know now, I wouldn't have shot him either. It's easy in hindsight. But tomorrow is a new day. How will tomorrow's scenario go?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Dutch

What's if its just to make ends meet?

This resonates with a post I made a couple of months ago...

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I hate to paint with a broad brush, but do y'all *know* any street-beat cops personally, specifically their backgrounds???

I appreciate their service. They do a dangerous job that I wouldn't want to do. That said, to be a street cop requires a high school diploma and either the courage to face fears or the arrogance to be unfazed by the danger. I know several guys from my years of hanging around high schools who ended up becoming cops. Every single one of them fits the following profile:

1. Highest education = high school
2. Grades = Took no advanced classes, GPA between 2.0 and 2.5 (i.e. "just enough to stay eligible for football")
3. College attended = 1 year or less
4. General understanding of autism vs. Down Syndrome vs. Other Mental Illness= "Those kids who were in special ed."
5. Personality = Nice guy, but general demeanor = "big dumb jock"

I have every reason to believe that all but one of them are good cops. (The one that I suspect might not be may well have some PTSD issues from Afghanistan. ) However, unless specifically trained to look for signs of an issue such as autism or if they happen to have someone in their family/friends circle who cares for an autistic person, I have absolutely NO reason to believe that any of them would have the first clue about autism and I would fully expect all of them to truthfully respond that they have no idea what high-functioning autism is.

I suspect that a big issue is that we expect/demand street cops to be "professionals," yet the payscale is in a problematic space. It's too low to attract many on a true "professional" career track. But it's high enough that a 20-year-old with a G.E.D.* can make *significantly* more money than he could doing anything else.


**--YMMV on the details, depending on the state you're in, but my recollection is that in one of the states I checked 2 months ago when I made that post, they will accept a 20-year-old with a G.E.D. into their Academy. None of the handful of states I checked required more than a hs diploma.

[cuervo72]

That said, to be a street cop requires a high school diploma and either the courage to face fears or the arrogance to be unfazed by the danger.

Given the outcome, I'm not sure the woman in this instance had either of the last two. The question is though - how in the hell did four armed cops allow a situation with one unarmed, stranded motorist become one that was "dangerous?" It's my contention that that shouldn't happen.

Curious on Tulsa in this case, because yes that is a valid concern, I think.

What is the average Police Patrol Officer salary for Tulsa, OK?

How much does a Police Patrol Officer in Tulsa, OK make? The median annual Police Patrol Officer salary in Tulsa, OK is $50,333, as of August 29, 2016, with a range usually between $41,923-$59,400 not including bonus and benefit information and other factors that impact base pay. However, the salary for someone with the title Police Patrol Officer may vary depending on a number of factors including industry, company size, location, years of experience and level of education. Our team of Certified Compensation Professionals has analyzed survey data collected from thousands of HR departments at companies of all sizes and industries to present this range of annual salaries for people with the job title Police Patrol Officer in Tulsa, OK.

Police Patrol Officer Salaries in Tulsa, OK by education, experience, Location and more - Salary.com

Of course for comparison (last table): http://www.tulsaschools.org/1_Admini...dules_main.asp

edit: this is not to say that "police officer" is any less important than "teacher." Strictly talking about barrier for entry vs salary.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Just because you choose a job, does that instantly make you right for it? How many cops really wanted to be cops? 100%? What's if its just to make ends meet? In any event, yes, they are in that job now. Good luck. Be perfect and don't die...oh, and don't let criminals walk and terrorize the rest of us more either.

Could you imagine then that you found yourself in a job like that? Lots of Americans do. But now you're not just an accountant when your hearts in advertising. In this job, you get to pull people over that in many cases have been up to no good. Great. And you know that some percentage of people who are pulled over are going to comply with your every word. But you also know that some percentage will be willing to flee at all cost.

And now it's you standing there and you ask somebody you don't know to stand there while you approach. And the suspect instead reaches inside his car. You don't even want to be there, Cuervo. You just want to get your paycheck. And go home and see your family.

And this suspect doesn't want to be there either. And he just disobeyed your order, which was designed to keep this as civil as possible.

"Come on, dude let's not do this" you must be thinking. "Let's just go through the motions. I just want to go home to my family. Let's just get it over with."

But he's possibly not going home to his family (and obviously, in this case, he isn't now), whether he complies or not, is he, Cuervo? That's a distinct possibility. You might even be a bit nervous. You're thinking about the possibility. It's happened a few times before and many times in conversation back at the police station. And then, just as you feared, something happens. It happens in the span of 3 seconds. He just disobeyed your lawful order and reached back into his car.

Cuervo? What are you going to do? You're not a racist, Cuervo.

But he doesn't know that. You sincerely hope he's not freaking out at the sight of you, but maybe he is. Maybe he's about to go to jail for 50 years and doesn't really want to.

Maybe he isn't. Maybe it's all just a big misunderstanding, you pulled over the wrong guy. No problem, you'll clear it up and let him be on his way.

But maybe he's been telling his buddies how all cops are racist and evil. Or maybe they've been telling him that...and now he's scared. But that's not you. You're not racist or evil. You just wanted him to stand still while you approached, but now he disobeyed that and is reaching into his car.

You're going home to your family after this, right, Cuervo? You're a good man. You've done nothing towards him or anybody, ever.

But, you're a cop...you know of many stories of suspects that are desperate and want to flee...and you're in his way. You personally have had previous suspects reach into their car to grab their wallets...but you also have experiences where they reach in to get their gun.

Is he grabbing his wallet? A gun? Either are viable options on the board. You got three seconds. You know for a fact, in hindsight, that he didn't have a gun. If you chose not to shoot in this scenario, then good on ya! Based on what I know now, I wouldn't have shot him either. It's easy in hindsight. But tomorrow is a new day. How will tomorrow's scenario go?

As someone else said, the reason this is so problematic is that it NEVER should have got to the point of a dangerous situation. This was badly mismanaged. Yes, the guy didn't follow order and yes, that led directly to his death. (No matter what anyone says, this is a huge issue is most of these shootings)

But there are 4 cops there. Zero reason to allow this to ever get this far.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

FWIW, on FB I've heard a lot of complaints about Kaepernick and about the Eagles. I don't think I've heard anything about Rapinoe.

And I have less doubt than I have had in the past that the officers in this case may face consequences. Zero doubt? I can't go that far.

Because for the average person the NFL is higher on the radar than women's soccer. Have you heard ANYONE in the media or in you circle of friends, criticize Kaepernick and praise Rapinoe? I doubt it.

[cuervo72]

This is true, the NFL has a bit more visibility than women's soccer.

If someone is praising Rapinoe, they're praising Kaepernick too. I don't know that the others hold the same contempt for both though, as opposed to putting Rapinoe in the "clueless white girl/SJW" bin (as opposed to angry/unthankful black man). I could be wrong on that.

[Ben E Lou]

CLARIFICATION: I wasn't commenting on the specifics of the Tulsa case, but the bigger-picture issue that I see here: the combination of "low education requirement" and "starting salary much higher than nearly anything else with that education requirement" just naturally creates issues.

SIDE NOTE: I once got out of a richly deserved ticket (probably going 60ish in a 35; he didn't have his radar on, but just pulled me because I was flying) when I was in college because I knew the guy. I'd been buddies with the guy in Elementary and Jr. High and we'd run into each other several times at sporting and social events in high school.

But looking back, what on EARTH was that guy doing in a patrol car by himself that night??? We were both 21-year-old immature kids.

[CU Tiger]

I think Ben is hitting on my key issue in the whole debate.

In my chose profession I am a professional. Like everyone here. I have bounced around and found my way into careers that have fit my skills, abilities and desires. I have excelled but more than that I take pride in being a professional. I take pride in my vocation and I expect everyone ele to do the same.

It sounds trite and cliche, but if you work at McDonalds I expect you to make that Big Mac to the best of your ability. Every. Time. While also working to change your position. I promise if you own your role, whatever it is and own it with enthusiasm and passion you will improve your lot in life. And I expect that of very professional I encounter.

I will occasionally coach young people I encounter who dont treat their job that way. In many different walks. I will engage a manager if I dont think the message is clear.

Likewise I do not know how to diffuse a tense situation in an emotionally charged traffic stop. Never cared to learn or practice that skill set. Never will. But if you CHOOSE, and make no mistake every LEO in the country CHOSE to do that job, then I expect you to be a master of it and strive for excellence. And if you encounter a random jerk and the situation goes badly, and you both act wrongly I expect the LEO to be held to the higher standard. And I expect them to be held accountable if they are not. Bad guys act bad. Robbers rob. Murderers Murder. Its what they do it. The expectation is that the LEO acts professionally and resolves the situation.

Now that all sounds well and good, but to be honest those "expectations" are my hopes for how it should be. They are ideals I have never seen delivered (much like the consistent good Big Mac)..but I think it is a standard we MUST strive towards as a society.

Frankly we have to stop the cops who are cops just to get by from ever getting the job. That's a recipe for disaster every time. Training needs to be better. Hell pay probably needs to be better. We need to e ale to attract the best and brightest for the good of society. I mean hell when the data posted above says we have cops with handcuffs and guns making $41k and convenience store workers making $35k. Something is wrong. Pay more, but demand more for that pay. Hold LEOs who commit crimes against the badge accountable. Erase the thin blue line. Get back to good and bad.

Of course that is all polyanna utopia bs that'll never happen. So here we are and here we will devolve from.

[murrayyyyy]

So a terrorist who set off bombs in New York/New Jersey has the ability to shoot at cops and is still taken alive after a gun fight...

A black guy walks back to a car with his hands up and is dead with one shot for having a stalled car in the road?

Just think about that for a second. No left or right agenda bullshit, those are the facts. That crap I watched from Tulsa is a snuff video. If it was a captured American instead of a black guy and someone from ISIS had the gun instead of cops everyone would be screaming for war against ISIS for taking out an innocent man. 'Murica.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

So a terrorist who set off bombs in New York/New Jersey has the ability to shoot at cops and is still taken alive after a gun fight...

That's a really good point.

[molson]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

So a terrorist who set off bombs in New York/New Jersey has the ability to shoot at cops and is still taken alive after a gun fight...

A black guy walks back to a car with his hands up and is dead with one shot for having a stalled car in the road?

.

It was different officers involved in the two incidents.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I think Ben is hitting on my key issue in the whole debate.

In my chose profession I am a professional. Like everyone here. I have bounced around and found my way into careers that have fit my skills, abilities and desires. I have excelled but more than that I take pride in being a professional. I take pride in my vocation and I expect everyone ele to do the same.

It sounds trite and cliche, but if you work at McDonalds I expect you to make that Big Mac to the best of your ability. Every. Time. While also working to change your position. I promise if you own your role, whatever it is and own it with enthusiasm and passion you will improve your lot in life. And I expect that of very professional I encounter.

I will occasionally coach young people I encounter who dont treat their job that way. In many different walks. I will engage a manager if I dont think the message is clear.

Likewise I do not know how to diffuse a tense situation in an emotionally charged traffic stop. Never cared to learn or practice that skill set. Never will. But if you CHOOSE, and make no mistake every LEO in the country CHOSE to do that job, then I expect you to be a master of it and strive for excellence. And if you encounter a random jerk and the situation goes badly, and you both act wrongly I expect the LEO to be held to the higher standard. And I expect them to be held accountable if they are not. Bad guys act bad. Robbers rob. Murderers Murder. Its what they do it. The expectation is that the LEO acts professionally and resolves the situation.

Now that all sounds well and good, but to be honest those "expectations" are my hopes for how it should be. They are ideals I have never seen delivered (much like the consistent good Big Mac)..but I think it is a standard we MUST strive towards as a society.

Frankly we have to stop the cops who are cops just to get by from ever getting the job. That's a recipe for disaster every time. Training needs to be better. Hell pay probably needs to be better. We need to e ale to attract the best and brightest for the good of society. I mean hell when the data posted above says we have cops with handcuffs and guns making $41k and convenience store workers making $35k. Something is wrong. Pay more, but demand more for that pay. Hold LEOs who commit crimes against the badge accountable. Erase the thin blue line. Get back to good and bad.

Of course that is all polyanna utopia bs that'll never happen. So here we are and here we will devolve from.

Great post. Pretty much agree with all of this (except maybe the expectation about McDonalds workers from experience )

When we don't follow this we get situations like the LA Sherriffs department being so desperate for bodies that they employ 80 convicted felons in one graduating class and don't even bother checking the background checks. They can't even buy recruits because the pay is awful and you deal with the worst neighborhoods in LA, but we are sending whoever applies out there with a gun and a badge regardless. Clearly a bad situation just waiting to happen.