Werewolf: XIV Spawn (GAME OVER! Please give feedback)

[RealDeal]

Originally Posted by Fouts

That is important info you could have filled us in on. RA and Vince scanning Schmidty makes no sense, when you have me and blade without scans.

I don't understand what you are saying exactly. Vince scanned Schmidty right after we nabbed dubb, and thus we thought Vince was a good guy at the time. So at the time, the Schmidty scan was pretty reliable so we thought.

Only last night did I decide that Mr. W's gambit proved his was truthful and that Vince had been a spawn for a while. So I went back and looked at the scans Vince did that we thought were truthful but were not. The Schmidty one stuck out to me because I had gone through every post in the game at the time and was sure that Schmidty was spawn.

It wasn't like the Vince scan of Schmidty was useless. At the time, it seemed reliable.

I didn't withhold any info. When Vince scanned Schmidty, I thought Vince was a good guy.

The only info I held back was last night I didn't publicly say I was going to withhold water and from whom. I think the reasons for that were obvious; I didnt want the spawn and any survivors I might be killing to band together and lynch me.

I was acutally pretty close to not giving you water Fouts, but I went through all your posts and votes and decided that you were probably a good guy. I also suspected Hoops, but I decided I'd rather keep him alive even if he was spawn just so I could continue to have power over the water distribution via my orders.

[RealDeal]

Did Lathum ever do anything? His slayer role could have been pretty useful.

[Fouts]

Sorry, my point was that Vince choosing to scan Schmidty (instead of a more suspicious blade or me), when he had already been scanned by RA.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

I was acutally pretty close to not giving you water Fouts, but I went through all your posts and votes and decided that you were probably a good guy. I also suspected Hoops, but I decided I'd rather keep him alive even if he was spawn just so I could continue to have power over the water distribution via my orders.

Yeah I know, which is why I didn't like your position of power. Somebody being able to kill off half the crew at once has way too much power. If you were a spawn, we were done for.

[RealDeal]

When did RA scan Schmidty? Even if RA did scan Schmidty, that scan would have been very dubious since RA had just been pegged as a spawn.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Did Lathum ever do anything? His slayer role could have been pretty useful.

For the first few days he did use it to protect people. However, he had stopped doing so before he got killed. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) he lost interest in the game. The biggest thing I realized out of this game was I don't think we as a board really have 20 WW players. I think we might get 20 or so people interested in playing, but at any given moment I think we have between 10-15 people who can really participate in a game. This game in order to work needed active participation which didn't happen from some people. I knew that the complexity might be too much for some people which is why I tried to line up an alternate.

[hoopsguy]

Did anyone ever really trust me in this game? I don't think I could have played it any more straight than I did. And, next to Blade, I'm sure I had the most requests to scan me or just keep me around because of my role.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Did anyone ever really trust me in this game? I don't think I could have played it any more straight than I did. And, next to Blade, I'm sure I had the most requests to scan me or just keep me around because of my role.

I did towards the end. In the begining it's hard to trust anyone.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

When did RA scan Schmidty? Even if RA did scan Schmidty, that scan would have been very dubious since RA had just been pegged as a spawn.

Oh I misread your post. I though you meant RA scanned Schmidty, but you meant Vince's scan of Schmidt, which was after Vince's scan of RA.

[RealDeal]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Yeah I know, which is why I didn't like your position of power. Somebody being able to kill off half the crew at once has way too much power. If you were a spawn, we were done for.

From a macro-perspective, I agree. From my perspective, once I grasped how powerful I was, it was awesome. I was a good guy, and I basically could kill anyone I wanted, so it seemed all good. I knew as long as I stayed alive and Kwhit didnt mess with my plan, the survivor team was golden, even if a few individual guys might have to eat it in the process.

From the perspective of another survivor not sure if I'm good or not, it definitely would be a lot less fun to have one guy who decides to play god and there's not a ton you can do about it.

So as RealDeal the player in the game, I think I made the right decision to go house with my power. From a game-build perspective, having one guy with that kind of power is probably not optimal.

[RealDeal]

Nothing you did was suspicious Hoops, but my major fear was that you would play it straight all game until you got six survivors lined up as dehydrated and then drop a big bomb on us by depriving all six of water.

So although my gut was to trust you, you had some much potential to harm us that I was always suspicious. That was one reason why I decided to cut in on the water orders at the end, to reduce the risk of you slaughtering us in one night.

[Passacaglia]

Why was Vince exhausted that day, anyway? Seems odd that his exhaustion was what caused a lot of our problems, and we don't even know why it happened. Not saying that it wasn't up and up, just odd.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

From a game-build perspective, having one guy with that kind of power is probably not optimal.

Even if the three people most likely to have that power were guarenteed non-Spawn at the start of the game? I knew that was considerable power which is why I tried to balance it that way. If you don't think that was effective do you have a suggestion on how to make it different?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why was Vince exhausted that day, anyway? Seems odd that his exhaustion was what caused a lot of our problems, and we don't even know why it happened. Not saying that it wasn't up and up, just odd.

His being a light sleeper caused his exhaustion that day after the attack.

[Poli]

Hmmph. Good job, guys. I was a little surprised when I found out Schmidty was spawn. I honestly felt Jeff or maybe Lathum was the Queen Spawn.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Yeah, what the hell did the spawn do all game? The perceived total lack of action confused me.

Trust me, we were trying as hard as we possibly could to win, but EVERY SINGLE THING that we tried to do failed. The cards were heavily stacked against us.

Congrats to the survivors.

[Barkeep49]

ok summary is done. Thanks to everyone for playing (I hope you had a good time!).

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Day 7 -- I was AMAZED absolutely AMAZED that Vince wasn't lynched here. I mean there is almost NOTHING suggesting Mr. W is anything but good and it is a known possibilty that Vince might have been infected. This gave the Spawn one last chance.

Night 7 -- The Spawn attacked, seperately, the water plant. If there had been only one defender, as it looked like there would be when I went to bed, I thought this was a great move as if the first attack could kill or wound the defender it gave the second attack a great chance of damaging the water plant and thus killing off a bunch of the crew. It was not meant to be.

Day 7 - I was suspicious too. If Mr. W is on the up and up, why don't we lynch a confirmed spawn?

Night 7 - The security crew definitely need some medals for this night. Way to go guys!

[RealDeal]

What do you mean RA was taken out of his coma?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

ok summary is done. Thanks to everyone for playing (I hope you had a good time!).

Well done Barkeep. I enjoyed the background and detailed PM's. Although I think it was probably too much work for you.

[pennywisesb]

Awesome game guys! Go survivors! I was really looking forward to getting to scan some people but oh well, we win! Thanks to barkeep for the great game! It seemed alittle overwhelming at first, but in the end it actually wasn't that bad at all and to be honest this is probably my favorite WW game to date. Overall good job to everyone.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

What do you mean RA was taken out of his coma?

He was killed. For the record with-out detailing the exact number (in case I ever run the game again) there was a 45-65 percent chance of success of curing Raiders. Of course this didn't matter since you had a fraudalent doc...

[RealDeal]

What was the embargoed information?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Well done Barkeep. I enjoyed the background and detailed PM's. Although I think it was probably too much work for you.

Honestly I didn't mind the work so much when it was up in the air. The last two days when it became apparent to me that the Spawn were going to lose, it seemed like work, but I really enjoyed running the game.

Thanks for the kind words from everyone and PLEASE give feedback on any changes you'd make. The comments from Mr. W about empaths and Real about officers are good stuff.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

What was the embargoed information?

Mr. W's empath scan not being able to be revealed at night. Vince sent me a frantic PM asking for the night. At first it seemed reasonable but I then shifted for the reasons I've already explained.

[RealDeal]

I'll hand out a little hardware since we are at the end:

MVP award: tough one because a number of guys played big roles in our win, but I'll hand it to Mr. W. His self-sacrificial play at the end gave us the info to bag both of the remaining spawn.

LVP: Tough one between AE, who bombed every big decision he made, and Lathum, who had one of the most powerful abilities in the game and didn't use it many nights.
I'll go with Lathum because neither of AE's decisions were completely irrational.

I will say, however, that when I voted in favor of the mutiny, I was pretty sure AE was a good guy. My vote was less of a kill-a-spawn vote than a no-confidence vote.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

I will say, however, that when I voted in favor of the mutiny, I was pretty sure AE was a good guy. My vote was less of a kill-a-spawn vote than a no-confidence vote.

same reason I voted to kill him

[hoopsguy]

In regards to AE, I didn't want to kill a survivor because of "spawn captain" fears. While I understand that we needed to conduct a lynch pretty much every day because of water concerns I didn't think we needed to throw out someone who (I thought) had just made a mistake in judgement.

Knowing what we know now, we did not need to lose SnDvls. If everyone had been kept alive by water and we had lynched Vince today then I think Schmidty would have 1.) attacked water again or 2.) thrown in the towel.

RealDeal, you did a very nice job of picking out Schmidty on Day 4. I re-read a ton of posts looking for a hole in your argument and didn't see anything glaring. After he was cleared, that is when my suspicion of Vince went from risk-mitigation mode to thinking it was a 50/50 proposition that he was indeed spawn.

Lathum is the guy I had the hardest time getting a read on because of the (perceived) inactivity.

After the Fouts/Blade no-lynch day I thought there was a pretty good chance that Blade was spawn. But that opinion softened over the last couple of days. Even after having a couple of games with him I have kind of a hard time reading him. Just seems more random than most people (shrug).

[hoopsguy]

And I think it would have been a blast to play this game as a spawn in my role - had fun this way too, but bad waterboy would have had a lot of potential.

[RealDeal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Knowing what we know now, we did not need to lose SnDvls. If everyone had been kept alive by water and we had lynched Vince today then I think Schmidty would have 1.) attacked water again or 2.) thrown in the towel.

I agree, but the time I assumed we had a good chance of having three spawn. Although there were some other folks that Vince scanned after his conversaion, so it might have taken a few turns to figure out which one, if any, was the lie. On the other hand, once we lynched Vince, i probably would have been right back on Schmidty anyway because I was so confident in my earlier analysis pointing him out as spawn.

And thanks for the comment about Schmidty. Picking him out from reading 1500 posts was my crowning achievement of the game. Unfortunately, due to Vince's conversion, I didn't get the glory of bagging him like that.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why was Vince exhausted that day, anyway? Seems odd that his exhaustion was what caused a lot of our problems, and we don't even know why it happened. Not saying that it wasn't up and up, just odd.

Light sleeper, as I think both RealDeal and I had concluded at the time.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Day 7 -- I was AMAZED absolutely AMAZED that Vince wasn't lynched here. I mean there is almost NOTHING suggesting Mr. W is anything but good and it is a known possibilty that Vince might have been infected. This gave the Spawn one last chance.

It was risky, but I pushed against lynching Vince because I thought that the devolution into a Vince vs. W showdown would be too detrimental... and I've got very mixed success when those have come down. Even though I knew it was going to cost me, I figured it was better to take a shot at getting the other spawn. Unfortunately, we chose wrong with Lathum instead of Schmidty, but I do think the latter was on our short list at that point.

[saldana]

cheers to barkeep, this game was excellent to play, although it was a monster to try to keep up with once i started working every day. 100 posts a day every time i came home. but i liked all the rules and the secret roles made things very interesting. i'd play one of yours again anytime.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

After the Fouts/Blade no-lynch day I thought there was a pretty good chance that Blade was spawn. But that opinion softened over the last couple of days. Even after having a couple of games with him I have kind of a hard time reading him. Just seems more random than most people (shrug).

Heres one thing to know about me...i purposely piss people off. Most people might not like it, but when people get agitated and upset they tip their hands. After the way ardent reacted i knew he was good but it was too late to stop it. Realdeal's tirade against me told me he was good too. It might upset some people, but thats what i want. Makes my job easier. I go balls to the wall on people all the time, as its who stands up for who and who doesnt that tells us the bad and good. If we all sat back the would win. Someone has to be the prick who pisses people off but makes the bad guys make moves, and im usually that person

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kibitzer comments -- considering I've never played any of the WW games (nor do I think I'm ever likely to) & didn't do much more than skim over the rule set for this variant, I was able to follow along pretty well & had a pretty good understanding of how it worked. I think that says a lot for the DM job Barkeep did with this game, and I wanted to give him props for that.

On the other hand, just from the way outside looking in, it seemed like the most powerful roles might have been just a little too powerful relative to the lesser roles. I see that as both good & bad, bad from the standpoint of balancing roles that someone gets in the random draw but good from the standpoint of being realistic to the situation being RP'ed. {shrug} Maybe it balances itself in the middle, but that's my .02 just from watching it.

And, since somebody is probably going to wonder "if he doesn't play, WTF is he reading", somewhere along the way in this one, ya'll seriously began to amuse the hell out of me

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

On the other hand, just from the way outside looking in, it seemed like the most powerful roles might have been just a little too powerful relative to the lesser roles.

I saw your name in the who's reading a few times and I admit I wondered why someone would possibly slog through this monster if they weren't playing. Thanks for the complement (and you too Saldana)

What roles specifically were you referring to? The feedback's important because somewhere down the road (meaning no time soon) I have an idea for a sequel and so would want to know how to rebalance.

[Raiders Army]

...

[Raiders Army]

Wait, I can talk now???

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Wait, I can talk now???

No. No you can't.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Wait, I can talk now???

[Raiders Army]

For some reason, I'm not that tired...

[hoopsguy]

Has anyone ever gotten more posts for

...

than Raiders Army (note that the spelling is correct).

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Day 7 - I was suspicious too. If Mr. W is on the up and up, why don't we lynch a confirmed spawn?

Night 7 - The security crew definitely need some medals for this night. Way to go guys!

Fouts, don't forget you were part of that security crew! Way to go you!

[Poli]

I'd like this answered by the Spawn and by barkeep. Was liftoff important at all?

[Vince]

What a game...I had a blast being in this one. My thoughts/musings...

• The fact that Schmidty failed every single thing he attempted after I became spawn was rather frustrating. My first order of business was to suggest killing hoopsguy. Had he died that day, I think we would have been in amazing shape, because he had only marginally formed his suspicions on me to that point, and was starting to build a case against KWhit and Fouts, I think.
  
• I was absolutely livid when I found out that Mr. Wednesday could empathically scan something he said himself (sorry about that PM Barkeep...I'm sure that it wasn't very nice). I re-read the rules

  Originally Posted by Rules

  Empathic May PM the GM to verify truth of one complete sentence said by another person in the public thread.

  and further irritated myself, but there was nothing to be done. Once I came to the conclusion that Barkeep would allow Mr. W to do that, I threw out my post claiming my innocence as a bluff to try to convince those people that had a little trust in me that there were more important people to scan (immediately, while I could be scanned in a day or so by Pennywisesb), such as Hoopsguy, who was in charge of our water that night. I definitely think the Empath ability should be limited. What put me off most was that I had gone out of my way to make sure I had not made a statement that could be 'empathically outed,' yet I was still burned by it.
  
• The real killer was that Schmidty then forgot to send in a night action. Once I realized what was going on, I came to the conclusion that if Mr. Wednesday was allowed to say "Vince is spawn," I had two days to live, tops. Even if I managed to convince people that I should live one day, once Mr. Wednesday died and was proven innocent, I was a goner. Which meant that Schmidty didn't have long after. Since I was still stuck in the brig, I PM-ed Schmidty that he needed to kill Mr. Wednesday if we had any chance at all at keeping ourselves hidden. He replied "sounds good," but apparently never sent it in. I wonder what would have happened if Mr. W had died...
  
• As for the Spawn attacking the water earlier and more often...we were incredibly well hidden once I got to be a spawn. I figured we should first limit the critics of the two of us, then get to taking out the essentials (like the water) -- Hoopsguy was the only person who voiced anything close to concern over me being Spawn until two days after I had been converted. And on each successive night, something happened that we needed to address before attacking the water. Of course, we probably would have failed spectacularly at attacking the water, as we failed at everything else...but still.

Last night, I sent in a last ditch plan effort to barkeep, that I was fairly certain he wouldn't let me do. I asked Schmidty to attack Mr. Wednesday again, saying I had a plan and that I would jointly attack Mr. Wednesday with him. Well, my plan was to watch Schmidty kill Mr. W, then kill Schmidty and attempt to plant Schmidty's spawn on Mr. W. I figured it was the only way I could make it, and I think if allowed to, it would have been brilliant.

But it wasn't meant to be.

I threw out the RealDeal injuring me thing on a lark to try to confuse you guys. I had been considering pulling the same thing with Hoops prior to today, but I realized it was a once and done strategy, so decided against it.

Hell of a game, Barkeep -- I enjoyed it a lot.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I'd like this answered by the Spawn and by barkeep. Was liftoff important at all?

Yes, it neutered the Spawn Queen. Once liftoff occurred, the only person that could be converted was me, and only while I was trying to cure someone.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry about the formatting, but the Pm that barkeep sent explaining empath had different wording. But anyway, could MrW just have had someone else say "Vince is spawn."?

Originally Posted by Passacaglia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkeep49
Hope you're having a nice Labor Day Weekend.

Your Public Role for Werewolf is Private. As a you may go on away team missions or be promoted by the Second Officer.

Your Private Role for Werewolf is an Empath. As an Empath you may, twice in the game, send a single sentence to me from the thread. I will then tell you if the statement is True, False, or Unknown based on what I know.

If you have any questions, or need some help getting started, please don't hesitate to let me know.



Hey, hope you're having a good Labor Day weekend, too!

I do have one question about my Empath role. Can it be a sentence that I say in the thread, or does it have to be a sentence that someone else says?


It can be a sentence anyone says. At first I admit I was puzzled about why you would do a sentence you had said but then I figured it out . Good question.

[Barkeep49]

I think we're all on the same page about the empath. I know that in the game I got the idea from, each crew member said each day "I am not a werewolf on Day X". If someone didn't/wouldn't make the statement it was considered very suspicous.

I apologize (again) to Vince for the contradictory rule interpretation.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Vince

The real killer was that Schmidty then forgot to send in a night action. Once I realized what was going on, I came to the conclusion that if Mr. Wednesday was allowed to say "Vince is spawn," I had two days to live, tops. Even if I managed to convince people that I should live one day, once Mr. Wednesday died and was proven innocent, I was a goner. Which meant that Schmidty didn't have long after. Since I was still stuck in the brig, I PM-ed Schmidty that he needed to kill Mr. Wednesday if we had any chance at all at keeping ourselves hidden. He replied "sounds good," but apparently never sent it in. I wonder what would have happened if Mr. W had died...

If you look back, I was guarding Mr. W that night because he never answered whether you were spawn or not. Might have been tough for Schmidty to get past me.

[kingfc22]

I still can't believe that I locked up 2 spawn at one time. I never even got a chance to use my 3 shot phaser. Thanks Jeff