Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13)

[Alan T]

Some other notes as I look through the night PMs. Glengoyne had a 75% chance of revealing an allegiance when only 1 person was in jail alive at the end of the day. He had a 50% chance of determining the allegiance with 2 people in jail and a 25% chance with 3 people left alive in jail at the end of the day. If he missed a roll, he returned result was inconclusive and he needed more time. He also had a 10% chance of completely misjudging someone and coming back with the wrong allegiance.

The closest Glengoyne got to completely messing up his judging was on Barkeep the night he failed, he got a 11. One more point and Barkeep would have come back good for him which ironically enough could have messed up Lathum's strategy.

Also the only two occupations that got shifted on someone's death was the head cowboy and the mortician. Neither of those players died the entire game so those never moved.

[Alan T]

Some other notes as I look through the night PMs. Glengoyne had a 75% chance of revealing an allegiance when only 1 person was in jail alive at the end of the day. He had a 50% chance of determining the allegiance with 2 people in jail and a 25% chance with 3 people left alive in jail at the end of the day. If he missed a roll, he returned result was inconclusive and he needed more time. He also had a 10% chance of completely misjudging someone and coming back with the wrong allegiance.

The closest Glengoyne got to completely messing up his judging was on Barkeep the night he failed, he got a 11. One more point and Barkeep would have come back good for him which ironically enough could have messed up Lathum's strategy.

Also the only two occupations that got shifted on someone's death was the head cowboy and the mortician. Neither of those players died the entire game so those never moved.

[Alan T]

yay for board timeouts causing doubleposting.

[Swaggs]

I think I need to semi-retire from WW for a bit. Looking back over things, I got clobbered.

I bet Lathum was stressed out this entire game, as he had heat on him from, virtually, the beginning to the end.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think I need to semi-retire from WW for a bit. Looking back over things, I got clobbered.

I bet Lathum was stressed out this entire game, as he had heat on him from, virtually, the beginning to the end.

I really was, this game was a roller coaster. I delayed going to work some days so I could see the results and have the chance to post a reply so I could mount a defense. I am actually surprised I was able to keep it going.

[Abe Sargent]

AlanT, I always had a qeuestions. What happened if I dressed as a person and then that person came to see me?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

AlanT, I always had a qeuestions. What happened if I dressed as a person and then that person came to see me?

Your disguise would not have saved you from them and their action would have gone through. The night you dressed as Lathum and avoided being arrested, there was also a kill ordered for you that night that if I remember correctly could have won the game. Since you disguised as Lathum however, it would have required Lathum having gone to kill you.

Since Spleen went instead, his action was blocked and you avoided death and arrest.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Your disguise would not have saved you from them and their action would have gone through. The night you dressed as Lathum and avoided being arrested, there was also a kill ordered for you that night that if I remember correctly could have won the game. Since you disguised as Lathum however, it would have required Lathum having gone to kill you.

Since Spleen went instead, his action was blocked and you avoided death and arrest.

thats what i figured. It would have not made any sense that night for me to kill since I was trusted and spleen was probably gonna be jailed that night.

[spleen1015]

I was totally surprised that everyone believed me about the cause of bullet's death when everyone was suspecting me to be a cowboy. I thought for sure someone would see that today.

It was still a very good game played by all. The endgame was very challenging. I thought for sure that we were done a couple of times.

I was happy to be converted for the simple reason that I wanted the chance to play WW on the bad side. I thought I would have ended up lynched early in the game when I said I didn't have a role. I don't even know why I even posted it.

I learned a lot this game, that's for sure.

Kodos to Alan for such a great game. I PMed him early on letting him know that he had an outstanding idea and a well structured game.

I really enjoyed myself. I can definitely see how this can be addicting.WW is a great idea.

Thanks for a great game, guys and gals!

[Lathum]

* hi fives spleen*

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Lathum

a couple of comments about night kills

we killed sndvls and saldana on back to back nights hoping for some money to try another conversion.

we went with a "keep the vets alive" strategy to cause confusion

I was killed w/ no money, but I had accused both you and hoops just before you all killed me. My gut was right again.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Some fun notes from the game..

Role assignments:
Someone with the name deacon got the priest role.
Bulletsponge somehow got the role he begged for pre-game
Swaggs was once again the duke role somehow.

Well, regarding roles I thought for sure random.org had nothing to do with this. I figured you decided to match roles with likely names.

Barkeep = the bartender, duh
Hoopsguy = sharpshooter, You shoot in basketball
GoldenEagle = retired sheriff, the name GoldenEagle oozes sheriff
Spleen = mortician, a guy named after a body part
Anxiety = Actor, actors are full of hang-ups
Swaggs = Duke, the duke is full of swagger
Bulletsponge = This guy can start a gun showdown, that is a no brainer
Lonestargirl = singer, the name sounds like a country band anyway
NtnDeacon = preacher, duh

I just think it would have been fitting if the one named Chubby was the prostitute. If not, he should at least have a high vice for women. And the one named Chief Rum were the drunk.

[Lathum]

this game was like the perfect storm. If we kill saldana before sndvls everything turns out different.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Lathum

this game was like the perfect storm. If we kill saldana before sndvls everything turns out different.

funny thing is you all killed me in this game and in the other game I joined I was killed as the seer. I spied on Gram and was going to look at Swaggs on night 2 (both were the bad guys in that game too)

if only I lasted one more day....damn. you all played a pretty solid game though, it seemed like no one wanted to not trust you all.

[Lathum]

one other thing was when I saw it was me, hoops and barkeep I was worried about there being to many chiefs but we worked really well together and there were never any conflicts.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, crazy game. Alant, what was the dynamic at the end? Since no one died, how did the game end there? What action was Lathum able to use to shoot me down? Not sure I got that.

It was a terrific and crazy ass game. I was frustrated a lot, because of my lack of success. It is funny Alan saying there were so many women vices, because it really felt like I had found the only gay Western community I had ever heard of. I did notice differences in the PMs, so I felt pretty sure that Racer and saldana, for instance, had women vices, but I didn't have anything to go back to them for.

The night bullet "lost his gun" to me, was he told he was knocked out or was he told the truth? Just curious.

I think I made some good decisions, and I made some awful decisions. I was pretty certain Anxiety was a cowboy, and that was a bad mistake. But I had bad feelings about st cronin and hoops before they bought it (it was with some delight that my analysis actually pointed to hoops).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Just got back from my program. I ran with a London theme with Jack the Ripper, Bloody Mary, Marie Antoinette, King Henry as cards and ran the game 5 times, with between 16 and 24 people each time. Fun!

-Anxiety

Hey, funny coincidence. The WW game I will be running soon (after Chubby's I think) is actually based on the Jack the Ripper London.

[Tyrith]

I suspect Lathum just used his night action to blast you in the face. There wouldn't be anything that could be done about it because night kills go before arrest actions.

[Glengoyne]

Lathum,

Did you just make up the schtick about the pony express rider? Or was that your alter ego?

[Mr. Wednesday]

As an idle watcher...
...I mistrusted st.cronin since sometime after the saldana/GE blowup
...I mistrusted lathum at the same time, except that the masterful play of giving up Barkeep totally threw me off
...I had no inkling of Barkeep until lathum's reveal
...Someone (path12, I think) sowed suspicion of hoops for his "unhelpful" play, and that combined with his long survival was making me distrust him a little bit, but I would not have lynched or jailed him until Chief Rum's tour de force analysis of guns and tiredness

Anxiety certainly was not the only Cassandra, as path12 scattered a bunch of excellent observations and wound up getting lynched for his trouble.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, also, I could not believe that nobody came back to the fact that hoopsguy's gun had been fired on the day that he was arrested and lynched. Somehow, that managed to slip by everyone.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Dola, also, I could not believe that nobody came back to the fact that hoopsguy's gun had been fired on the day that he was arrested and lynched. Somehow, that managed to slip by everyone.

It certainly slipped by me. I completely missed that.

I too was completely taken in by Barkeep being a cowboy. I was certain that Lathum was a Cowboy orchestrating the lynching of a villager. When BK came up Cowboy, I actually thought I had misjudged Lathum for a day or so.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well, regarding roles I thought for sure random.org had nothing to do with this. I figured you decided to match roles with likely names.

Barkeep = the bartender, duh
Hoopsguy = sharpshooter, You shoot in basketball
GoldenEagle = retired sheriff, the name GoldenEagle oozes sheriff
Spleen = mortician, a guy named after a body part
Anxiety = Actor, actors are full of hang-ups
Swaggs = Duke, the duke is full of swagger
Bulletsponge = This guy can start a gun showdown, that is a no brainer
Lonestargirl = singer, the name sounds like a country band anyway
NtnDeacon = preacher, duh

I just think it would have been fitting if the one named Chubby was the prostitute. If not, he should at least have a high vice for women. And the one named Chief Rum were the drunk.

Random.org definitly had its moments on this one. I had a list of names that I assigned to numbers and had a list of roles that I assigned to numbers. I then just sent the entire string through random.org for a randomized sequence that i then rematched the two lists to. I wasn't too happy with random.org after the initial roles roll.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

this game was like the perfect storm. If we kill saldana before sndvls everything turns out different.

I thought for a while that Saldana was getting enough heat that he would end up getting locked up and lynched thus no money for you guys. I was really amused at how many people turned on him for doing exactly what people asked him to do. When it was Goldeneagle that pretty much screwed him over.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wow, crazy game. Alant, what was the dynamic at the end? Since no one died, how did the game end there? What action was Lathum able to use to shoot me down? Not sure I got that.

It was a terrific and crazy ass game. I was frustrated a lot, because of my lack of success. It is funny Alan saying there were so many women vices, because it really felt like I had found the only gay Western community I had ever heard of. I did notice differences in the PMs, so I felt pretty sure that Racer and saldana, for instance, had women vices, but I didn't have anything to go back to them for.

The night bullet "lost his gun" to me, was he told he was knocked out or was he told the truth? Just curious.

I think I made some good decisions, and I made some awful decisions. I was pretty certain Anxiety was a cowboy, and that was a bad mistake. But I had bad feelings about st cronin and hoops before they bought it (it was with some delight that my analysis actually pointed to hoops).

Lathum's night action is honestly what got you at the end to end the game. I just ad-libbed for the sake of the story. When we went to night actions, there was no one that had a night action that could stop Lathum's kill. I just simply had to wait for them to submit it in case they chose something that could have been blocked however for some reason. (Or they chose some other path). Once Lathum submitted night killing you with gun, it was over. No sense to drag it on, so I ended the game.

[Thomkal]

First off, thanks to Alan for what seemed to be a well-balanced game with a lot of interesting roles and mechanics. Would have been nice to last a little longer in it. (bastards! )

It's a good thing you killed off Gram, GE, and me because we had zero trust in that early COT and I think all three of us thought Hoops was a cowboy very early on. And as it turns out it was a very good thing you got me because based on what happened after my death and Hoops lynch, I had both Barkeep and Lathum high on my list of potential cowboys (no I won't reveal why so I can use it in future games )

The villagers really suffered by shutting down more and more as the game wore on-events that happened during the night were lightly discussed and then somewhat forgotten. There wasn't much voting analysis. I can understand the frustration though that led to the lessening of analysis.

The one bit of analysis you should have done though (and I may be off on this as I was long gone from the game and thus not thinking about it as much as those still alive) was the voting record of the day Hoops was lynched. From what I remember, it was not a sure thing Hoops would be lynched until late afternoon/early evening. I would have gone after the three people who voted for Hoops after he was mathematically eligible to be lynched-that was Path, Bullet, and Lathum. Yeah I would have got two villagers, but I felt certain a cowboy was holding on to his vote. (now Lathum will come on and say he voted late because he was gone all day. )

I have to say I was disappointed with the lack of powers my role had. In an interesting aside to those who mentioned the connection between powers and roles, I actually got the role I wanted, card dealer. I thought it might have some cool powers connected to it, and it would allow me to roleplay a bit. (thanks bullet for playing along ) I was under the impression for some reason that all the roles would have some kind of power.

So I was a bit bummed. So I set off with two goals. 1) Get converted. I specifically mentioned my lack of a vice in power and subtly mentioned my vice in woman (with my greeting of gents and espeically you ladies) to give the cowboys something to work with if they wanted to convert me. I think someone else mentioned I might have a vice in money, which I did. But it was a low vice in both so I thought my chances of conversion were low.

2) Get killed early on by the cowboys since I had no powers or gun so the townspeople that did have important roles would live another day. That's why I played up trying to get people to play cards with me, maybe tricking the cowboys into thinking I got information from people who played cards with me. And I mentioned my advice to the seer as to who to look at based on the vote for sheriff, thinking that might make them nervous. Glad it worked so well. Actually Hoops has told me since that he had planned on using my card dealer role for his fake reveal and that was part of the reason why they killed me. (bastard! )

I also did try to form a COT with Fouts (which is ironic given what happened in the Animal House game) which is why I voted to elect him based on his role reveal on Day 1 since my PM also said townspeople, or whatever it was Spleen thought was so suspicious.

All in all it was a fun game to watch after I was dead, and kudos to the cowboys for pulling it off, especially Lathum for throwing fellow cowboy Barkeep under the bus in a successful attempt to gain trust. Oh one question: Would the cowboy show up as tired if they did two night kills in a row? I was unsure the whole game if night kills counted against the tired rules.

I think the only things I would change off the top of my head Alan is giving everyone some kind of power-it sucked seeing all those roles and then not having one. And there seemed to be too many limitations on the seer's powers.

Thanks for running the game Alan.

[Barkeep49]

This was a good game. It felt like we, as cowboys, were always scrambling. If we had been a little more patient it seems that cronin and sndvls would have eventually come to ourside without are having to do anything. Of course we did benefit by killing saldana since we'd hypothsized that there was a way for us to get more gold (which is why we killed sndvls first). That crazy night 1 was a big relief to us as it gave Lathum room to breathe. His turning on me gave him just enough time for him and spleen (who was scary accurate when he was still a villager) to win the game. Well played spleen and Lathum.

And sorry cronin that you had such a short reign as a Cowboy. Not only was he ID on that first night, but the whole first day he was a cowboy he didn't know who the other cowboys were since we had considered having hoops call him out in a showdown so that hoops could get into the COT. And we won't even talk about the times when hoops, without our consent, was thinking about calling out lathum and myself in a showdown.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

First off, thanks to Alan for what seemed to be a well-balanced game with a lot of interesting roles and mechanics. Would have been nice to last a little longer in it. (bastards! )

It's a good thing you killed off Gram, GE, and me because we had zero trust in that early COT and I think all three of us thought Hoops was a cowboy very early on. And as it turns out it was a very good thing you got me because based on what happened after my death and Hoops lynch, I had both Barkeep and Lathum high on my list of potential cowboys (no I won't reveal why so I can use it in future games )

The villagers really suffered by shutting down more and more as the game wore on-events that happened during the night were lightly discussed and then somewhat forgotten. There wasn't much voting analysis. I can understand the frustration though that led to the lessening of analysis.

The one bit of analysis you should have done though (and I may be off on this as I was long gone from the game and thus not thinking about it as much as those still alive) was the voting record of the day Hoops was lynched. From what I remember, it was not a sure thing Hoops would be lynched until late afternoon/early evening. I would have gone after the three people who voted for Hoops after he was mathematically eligible to be lynched-that was Path, Bullet, and Lathum. Yeah I would have got two villagers, but I felt certain a cowboy was holding on to his vote. (now Lathum will come on and say he voted late because he was gone all day. )

I have to say I was disappointed with the lack of powers my role had. In an interesting aside to those who mentioned the connection between powers and roles, I actually got the role I wanted, card dealer. I thought it might have some cool powers connected to it, and it would allow me to roleplay a bit. (thanks bullet for playing along ) I was under the impression for some reason that all the roles would have some kind of power.

So I was a bit bummed. So I set off with two goals. 1) Get converted. I specifically mentioned my lack of a vice in power and subtly mentioned my vice in woman (with my greeting of gents and espeically you ladies) to give the cowboys something to work with if they wanted to convert me. I think someone else mentioned I might have a vice in money, which I did. But it was a low vice in both so I thought my chances of conversion were low.

2) Get killed early on by the cowboys since I had no powers or gun so the townspeople that did have important roles would live another day. That's why I played up trying to get people to play cards with me, maybe tricking the cowboys into thinking I got information from people who played cards with me. And I mentioned my advice to the seer as to who to look at based on the vote for sheriff, thinking that might make them nervous. Glad it worked so well. Actually Hoops has told me since that he had planned on using my card dealer role for his fake reveal and that was part of the reason why they killed me. (bastard! )

I also did try to form a COT with Fouts (which is ironic given what happened in the Animal House game) which is why I voted to elect him based on his role reveal on Day 1 since my PM also said townspeople, or whatever it was Spleen thought was so suspicious.

All in all it was a fun game to watch after I was dead, and kudos to the cowboys for pulling it off, especially Lathum for throwing fellow cowboy Barkeep under the bus in a successful attempt to gain trust. Oh one question: Would the cowboy show up as tired if they did two night kills in a row? I was unsure the whole game if night kills counted against the tired rules.

I think the only things I would change off the top of my head Alan is giving everyone some kind of power-it sucked seeing all those roles and then not having one. And there seemed to be too many limitations on the seer's powers.

Thanks for running the game Alan.

Yes, the cowboys would show up as tired if they did the night kill two nights in a row. This game they purposely avoided that the entire game however by making sure someone else different always did the kill. On nights that they had no one else, they simply made no kill. The only night a cowboy showed up tired that I can remember was when Lathum went back to back nights with a kill followed by a bribe the next night.

As for the townspeople clue in your PM.. I wondered if anyone would try that. I warned severely against the usage of PMs for clues. I think if someone had tried to run with that at the start, it would have been disasterous for the good guys. There is only so much variation you can do on townspeople, villagers, townies, townsfolk, etc. The reason you were greeted with distrust when you tried that is other people's PMs said something completely different. I am guessing thats why Spleen (who as a villager at the time) thought you were trying to slide that buy since its likely other people's PMs said different things.

With the roles, its really hard to give 21 people all night actions and keep the game from blowing up. My goal was to try to have this be a very wide open game to allow as many people as possible to be able to do something. Its very difficult to do that and keep a game balanced. Truth be told, I thought for the first few days I was afraid that the game wouldn't even last a week. I thought the villagers were way too over powered with so many roles already. Then when the villagers lost both the bodyguard and the retired sheriff, I suddenly thought the bad guys finally had the upper hand.. until they chose to convert the one guy who was going to automatically become a bad guy anyways (St.cronin).

The entire game I was teetering back and forth knowing that one big move on either side would have blown this game apart and the ending would not have been so close. The what-ifs in this game were huge. What-if Glen hit his scan on Lathum on day 3. What-if Anxiety hadn't dressed up on night 1 and Lathum somehow got busted then. What-if the cowboys had converted someone else before St.cronin, or hadn't gotten a chance to kill Saldana. I'm very happy with the ending of the game, but I definitly think any game with so many villager roles makes it really hard on the bad guys to win. Thats why I weakened the seer role some, to balance out having a witness role, a priest role both who could provide some information, plus having so many people out at nights that could bump into cowboys early.

I feel bad for some of the people who really didn't enjoy being a plain villager, but with 21 people, I think there almost has to be some plain villagers. One hidden note that wasn't told anyone, if the mortician died, the occupation would have randomly gone to one of the 6 "vanilla villagers" as a job as long as one still was alive.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

This was a good game. It felt like we, as cowboys, were always scrambling. If we had been a little more patient it seems that cronin and sndvls would have eventually come to ourside without are having to do anything. Of course we did benefit by killing saldana since we'd hypothsized that there was a way for us to get more gold (which is why we killed sndvls first). That crazy night 1 was a big relief to us as it gave Lathum room to breathe. His turning on me gave him just enough time for him and spleen (who was scary accurate when he was still a villager) to win the game. Well played spleen and Lathum.

And sorry cronin that you had such a short reign as a Cowboy. Not only was he ID on that first night, but the whole first day he was a cowboy he didn't know who the other cowboys were since we had considered having hoops call him out in a showdown so that hoops could get into the COT. And we won't even talk about the times when hoops, without our consent, was thinking about calling out lathum and myself in a showdown.

Haha, I wasn't going to tell anyone about that. I so was hoping Hoops was going to suddenly pull out his gun and shoot one of you down as a suprise. Ahh well!

[Barkeep49]

Alan -- What were the odds that cronin was gonig to convert automatically?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Alan -- What were the odds that cronin was gonig to convert automatically?

He had a turncoat/sympathizer type role. All that had to happen was for the first cowboy to be killed during the daytime. Ie: showdown killing one, or a lynch killing one and he would convert (ie: feeling sorry for them). If the first cowboy died at death (due to hitting the bodyguard on a night kill), he would not longer be a turncoat and go to being a normal villager.

Truth be told, this was the only scenerio this game that I was not ready for. St.cronin was the only one that I had no bribe odds figured before hand for. It didn't occur to me that you all would pick out of 18 people to choose from the sympathizer to bribe. So I had to figure those out on the fly.

[hoopsguy]

Mr. W - I had not fired my gun the day they brought me in. Lathum killed that night. And he bribed the following night, which is why he showed up Tired the day he made his "Pony Express" reveal. There were plenty of reasons to kill me without making up new ones

I asked Alan a bunch of questions on Night 1 about how the game might play out if I shot Lathum in the street. Basically, I would have taken over as leader and had the ability to run a bribe - that ability traveled with the leader. Had I done this to start Day 3, right after Lathum got out of jail, and come up with some kind of story (would have been card dealer at the time, saying it was a shady card dealer who had access to information) I think it would have bought me a good amount of trust for awhile. And it turns out Cronin would have come on board at that time, which means we would have had the opportunity to convert someone else later in the game.

But I was very concerned about a standard seer role scanning me the same night and then we are down two Cowboys, plus having no idea that we would have gained Cronin. I big-time wanted to execute this play, but I've never been a wolf with Lathum before (had it been Barkeep as leader, who has been a wolf teammate 3 times now, then BOOM!) and I didn't want him to hate me for the next 20+ werewolf games.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Mr. W - I had not fired my gun the day they brought me in.

If you go back to the day you were brought in, the sheriff (Chubby I think) said that your gun "had been fired recently".

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Lathum,

Did you just make up the schtick about the pony express rider? Or was that your alter ego?

this was totally made up. As head cowboy I didn't have a role. When I got arrested night one I started planting the seeds for a fake role reveal that would have given me an excuse why I was out the first night and why I had a gun. I got lucky that no one actually was the pony express rider and no one called me out sooner.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If you go back to the day you were brought in, the sheriff (Chubby I think) said that your gun "had been fired recently".

I don't think anyone was brought in with their gun recently fired if I remember right. It would only show up as that if they were brought in the night that they did a kill with the gun.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Yup, turns out I missed the "not". :o

I still probably would have gone with CR's analysis, but it wouldn't have been nearly as sure a thing.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I feel bad for some of the people who really didn't enjoy being a plain villager, but with 21 people, I think there almost has to be some plain villagers. One hidden note that wasn't told anyone, if the mortician died, the occupation would have randomly gone to one of the 6 "vanilla villagers" as a job as long as one still was alive.

it's not as bas as you think. It allowed me to really concentrate on the game and not worry about who I needed to spy on or kill at night ect. Too bad I didn't last to keep it up. The only bad thing was that it really didn't allow us to be in any COT unless we got spied on as well as we would never show up tired so there wouldn't be any suspicision from either side. Made us kinda like sitting ducks after a while as we could really help anyone or offer any way to clear ourselves either hence Dodgerchick's frustration at times I'm sure and me calling for her to take one for the team.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

it's not as bas as you think. It allowed me to really concentrate on the game and not worry about who I needed to spy on or kill at night ect. Too bad I didn't last to keep it up. The only bad thing was that it really didn't allow us to be in any COT unless we got spied on as well as we would never show up tired so there wouldn't be any suspicision from either side. Made us kinda like sitting ducks after a while as we could really help anyone or offer any way to clear ourselves either hence Dodgerchick's frustration at times I'm sure and me calling for her to take one for the team.

Well, I probably wouldn't mind being a vanilla villager in a game just because I've done many different roles, and some times its nice to sit back and not have any responsibilities. For some people though who havent been a cool role yet, it probably is less fun. I think what you said though is true in any game.. in most games if you are a vanilla villager, you have no way to prove or disprove your allegiance other than your voting record. (which is something that really was not used much in this game which is interesting to me)

[spleen1015]

Alan, did the early role reveals impact the usefulness of the Mortician role? I was very disappointed when all of those reveals happened. With most of the roles out there, I didn't see any importance of the information I was getting about roles.

The cause of death information was fatal throughout the game, but not that overly important to the group. It turned out to be a huge help to me with bullet's death. Lying about how he die preventing me from getting lynched on the last day, I believe.

When Lathum was jailed the second time, I wanted him to throw out another pony express rider story about intercepting a PM between Anxiety and bullet, implicating them as cowboys. I don't remember what changed in the game to stop this from happening though.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Alan, did the early role reveals impact the usefulness of the Mortician role? I was very disappointed when all of those reveals happened. With most of the roles out there, I didn't see any importance of the information I was getting about roles.

The cause of death information was fatal throughout the game, but not that overly important to the group. It turned out to be a huge help to me with bullet's death. Lying about how he die preventing me from getting lynched on the last day, I believe.

When Lathum was jailed the second time, I wanted him to throw out another pony express rider story about intercepting a PM between Anxiety and bullet, implicating them as cowboys. I don't remember what changed in the game to stop this from happening though.

I think your usage for it on Bullet's death was somewhat important, but alot of the role was catching the things that could happen but people might not know it. In creating this game I had no idea how open people would be about information or not. I have seen some games people just refuse to open up about things, and others they are quite open. This game people were pretty open which ironically enough was championed by a cowboy.

I think the mortician role was bigger for things that might have happened then things that did happen. Alot of this game was what-ifs though. The mortician was perhaps the biggest role to provide information to the town in the case that others chose not to share. (cause of death, the person's role and more importantly in most cases what the person's abilities roughly were which most people did not reveal at least completely)

[st.cronin]

I think this was the most entertaining and best-played game yet. I had thought about a fake reveal on the day I was outed, something along the lines of what Fouts did in that X-Com game - claiming that I had been bribed for one day only. I decided against it, though, figuring it was best to take one for the team.

[Alan T]

I'm glad that for the most part people had fun this game. Thats the primary objective that I had for the game. When this game started, I had created 36 roles for it (posted about half or 2/3 of them for this game). As of now, I have close to 40 or so. At some point down the road we will return to Tombstone, but I'm pretty sure the town might be a bit different after a few years of Cowboy rule.

My next game will be something a bit different I think, but I am interested in any feed back people have for this game on things to improve for next time.

[saldana]

great game alan, very well done.

my thoughts...there was a good deal of discussion, in fact some people actually got pushy about it, concerning everyone revealing their roles. i dont disagree that in some cases this is a good plan to follow early, but in this case, i think we gave the game away by doing it...if i had never given up my role as banker, then the cowboys would not have gotten the money for their 2nd conversion...that fact coupled with the instant suspicion that came with refusing to give up the info really handcuffed the village as we gave vital information away.

i know the argument is that information only helps the village, but in some situations, like this one, i think that too much info was actually our downfall.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

great game alan, very well done.

my thoughts...there was a good deal of discussion, in fact some people actually got pushy about it, concerning everyone revealing their roles. i dont disagree that in some cases this is a good plan to follow early, but in this case, i think we gave the game away by doing it...if i had never given up my role as banker, then the cowboys would not have gotten the money for their 2nd conversion...that fact coupled with the instant suspicion that came with refusing to give up the info really handcuffed the village as we gave vital information away.

i know the argument is that information only helps the village, but in some situations, like this one, i think that too much info was actually our downfall.

I think thats a fair point about this game. I guess the rule about information isn't hard/fast that information always helps or hurt the villagers. In this game early reveals I think did hurt like you said.

Later on in the game I am not sure if Anxiety hiding information hurt or helped the villagers, I think you can argue either way there.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think thats a fair point about this game. I guess the rule about information isn't hard/fast that information always helps or hurt the villagers. In this game early reveals I think did hurt like you said.

Later on in the game I am not sure if Anxiety hiding information hurt or helped the villagers, I think you can argue either way there.

Had Anxiety revealed more, I think the villagers would have won. By not giving information, he put a bullseye on his back. Had he revealed his role and given his analysis on the last day like he did, I think folks would have stuck with him.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Had Anxiety revealed more, I think the villagers would have won. By not giving information, he put a bullseye on his back. Had he revealed his role and given his analysis on the last day like he did, I think folks would have stuck with him.

I agree with that, however his hiding information also prevented you all from night killing, or making you more hesitant to night kill him. The last day, from what I saw you all were convinced if you didn't make Swaggs sheriff you had lost the game as Chief Rum and Anxiety were unkillable (which wasn't the case)

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Lathum

this was totally made up. As head cowboy I didn't have a role. When I got arrested night one I started planting the seeds for a fake role reveal that would have given me an excuse why I was out the first night and why I had a gun. I got lucky that no one actually was the pony express rider and no one called me out sooner.

It was funny, but before BK was lynched I had little to no suspicion that he was a Cowboy. I read your bit, and said to myself "Hoops was critical of my reveal, and he's spouting this line of crap". I was seriously convinced that there were Cowboys everywhere at that time, and that lynching BK that day combined with a night kill would give the Cowboys a victory. BK coming up Cowboy threw me a serious curve. I failed to connect the dots about your needing to cover your tracks about being tired the day after a kill. I still thought you were suspect number one, but I couldn't find the proof. Well played, indeed.


Oh and Alan. This was a great game with quite a few unique, to me at least, dynamics. Good Job!

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I agree with that, however his hiding information also prevented you all from night killing, or making you more hesitant to night kill him. The last day, from what I saw you all were convinced if you didn't make Swaggs sheriff you had lost the game as Chief Rum and Anxiety were unkillable (which wasn't the case)

We were unsure of how killing Chief Rum would happen with him being sheriff. So, on Night 12, went after Anxiety hoping to get him. We couldn't get him the night before because Lathum was in jail and I would have shown tired.

There were to keys in the last couple of days that led to our victory. Chief getting really suspicious of Chubby, thus getting him lynched and Swaggs getting elected sheriff on the last day, thus opened Chief Rum for the kill.

[Fouts]

Cowboys,

Huge mistake killing the school teacher. I saw no good reason for doing it, and I'm glad it cost you. Cost you st. cronin immediately, and hoops later.

[Fouts]

After I died, I figured it was the best outcome for a boring villager role. Have the killer get caught, and have some suspicion thrown on players. As it worked out, I had distrust in hoops and spleen.

I wasn't too sure about Chief, but his role seemed useless. Some great analysis by him though, where did that come from?