The Trump Presidency – 2016

[digamma]

It's ok, he's moved on to The Apprentice. Rest easy, America.

[CrescentMoonie]

"Provides no evidence" is the single best descriptor of the otherwise unrelated ramblings of Cheeto Mussolini.

[chinaski]

Psycho is mentally ill.

[cartman]

Do SNL writers work on Saturday?

[Edward64]

Don't know but I guess we'll find out tonight

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Clearly uniting around something begins by laying it to rest.

[RainMaker]

He is mentally ill.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Don't know but I guess we'll find out tonight

I guess not, tonights show (so far) has been pretty boring ...

[albionmoonlight]

His approval rating is still in the mid-40s.

His approval rating among Republicans is in the mid-80s.

Neither Trump nor the GOP are doing anything other than what they promised they would. Neither Trump nor the GOP is acting in any way other than how they acted during the campaign.

He has the strong and unconditional support of GOP Congressional leaders and GOP voters.

For all of the liberal hand-wringing, he's doing just fine where it matters.

[QuikSand]

In some ways, he's doing better than fine. There's a counter-intuitive but fairly well documented phenomenon where people who have already expressed their belief will then seemingly work extra hard to shape new information to align with their previously expressed belief.

There's little doubt that many/most Trump voters are in the midst of this exact thing. Best example is looking at polling on fav/unf on Russia or Putin. Before the week of the election, all stripes of Americans had a generally negative impression - definitely including Republicans. Now, you see a massive realignment of Trump supporters who are moving in the positive direction. There hasn't been any particularly happy news about Russia/Putin in the last few months...but we see a swath of voters now hear that question as a proxy for challenging the propriety of their own votes, and now realign themselves to think more positively by association. Russia is now polling pretty favorably among Trump voters.

Pollsters will probably see the same thing happening in a couple weeks. A fairly phrase poll question along the lines of "Did President Obama order illegal wiretaps of the Trump Campaign?" is going to get strong positives from Trump voters, and this issue will join the ranks of the similarly-launched questions like "Was there massive voter fraud among undocumented residents in the 2016 election?" where a question of facts (and not just propriety or good/bad), is up for grabs and split along party lines.

[PilotMan]

Trump wants nothing more than the type of authority and unquestioned influence that Putin has. So the idea that there might be a large contingent of Jon's out there ready to give it to him is terrifying for the continuance of the Republic. Or at the very least it continues to move us down that road of thinking that a powerful man who blows up an apartment block to gain public sentiment and power is shrewd for being so creative and kudos to him for pulling it off.

[tarcone]

Hasnt this polling already been shown to be a bad indication of support for Trump beginning at the primaries?
My point being, Trump supporters may have always had this opinion of Russia (see Joninmidga). And now these peoples opinions are finally being tapped into.

I feel like the media and pollsters missed a huge swath of people, either intentionally to sell their narrative, or unintentionally. But now that Trump is president they cant be ignored.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

His approval rating is still in the mid-40s.

His approval rating among Republicans is in the mid-80s.

Neither Trump nor the GOP are doing anything other than what they promised they would. Neither Trump nor the GOP is acting in any way other than how they acted during the campaign.

He has the strong and unconditional support of GOP Congressional leaders and GOP voters.

For all of the liberal hand-wringing, he's doing just fine where it matters.

It's just a sport now. Issues don't matter, facts don't matter. Just imbeciles flinging mud at one another and clutching to their leaders like toddlers to fill some emptiness in their lives.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Hasnt this polling already been shown to be a bad indication of support for Trump beginning at the primaries?
My point being, Trump supporters may have always had this opinion of Russia (see Joninmidga). And now these peoples opinions are finally being tapped into.

I feel like the media and pollsters missed a huge swath of people, either intentionally to sell their narrative, or unintentionally. But now that Trump is president they cant be ignored.

Nah, polls show before and after on the views of Russia. People have changed their stance. Heck you can find politicians who have done a 180 on Russia in just the last year.

[QuikSand]

I don't think the worry (from the anti-Trump types) belongs with the tried-and-true authoritarians. They've been there all along, but never in numbers to really worry about gaining serious control. The real worries are with the johnnies-come-lately who voted against Hillary/Obama/politicalcorrectness/whatever and now simply oppose that opposition mindset so deeply that anything coming from the current victor/President is taken up as gospel. There's your central fear, that he is enjoying a certain sort of "honeymoon period" not with all voters, but with his own voters, and is actively reshaping their beliefs with his own actions/statements.

The GOP and the conservative political wing could soon become overrun with support for protectionist tariffs, pro-Russian sentiment, and maybe even big social spending ... all anathema to the thinkers among them merely months ago.

[albionmoonlight]

Interesting. That makes a lot of sense to me.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Hasnt this polling already been shown to be a bad indication of support for Trump beginning at the primaries?
My point being, Trump supporters may have always had this opinion of Russia (see Joninmidga). And now these peoples opinions are finally being tapped into.

I feel like the media and pollsters missed a huge swath of people, either intentionally to sell their narrative, or unintentionally. But now that Trump is president they cant be ignored.

Polling was actually pretty accurate. Especially in the national level. The problem was a lot of people weren't taking the polls seriously or didn't believe the polling.

Projections nailed the popular vote in November. The distribution of votes at the state evel was where they were off and even then if you shift about 110,000 votes around you get a Hilary win.

[JPhillips]

There's a lot I agree with above, but I would push back on the idea that this is working for him. He's almost two months into his term and has no legislation passed. He has over 500 confirmable positions without nominees. He's had multiple high level nominees withdraw. He's had multiple losses in the court system. His approval ratings are lower than anyone else at this point in their presidency. There's an active FBI investigation into some number of his staff/campaign staff.

And all of this is without any sort of crisis outside of his own making. Maybe something terrible happens and he handles it well and everything turns around, but that seems unlikely at this point. Based on how he won and the demographics of his voters he has to expand his support to win in 2020, and he certainly isn't doing that right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

His approval rating is still in the mid-40s.

His approval rating among Republicans is in the mid-80s.

And that doesn't account for some of the disapproval stemming from disappointment that he hasn't acted more decisively and/or swiftly.

[CrescentMoonie]

Welcome to Trumpmerica where shooting someone because they're different is both okay and expected. Glad he got so much of the "Christian" vote.

[CrescentMoonie]

Trump's International Policies Could Have Lasting Effects On Higher Ed

Now we're looking at a loss of foreign students in US universities. Just a brilliant move by Donny Little Fingers. Most foreign students pay full price, subsidizing much of the student loan and grant money that American students need to get by. The most recent estimates put international students economic contribution at 30.5 billion for 14-15 and 32.8-35.8 billion for 15-16. What happens when you either turn those students away intentionally, or simply make it so unsafe for them that they don't want to take the chance?

1. Those students choose to go to other excellent schools in friendlier English speaking countries in places like Australia, Canada, and the UK in addition to other quality institutions around the globe.

2. Their economic capital and intellectual capital go to those new locations instead of the US.

3. The university and infrastructure jobs that are possible due to their economic presence go away, likely to their new locations.

4. The US suffers both economic and brain drain that will not be easy to overcome and will probably be permanently damaging to the country, especially as high tech jobs get farmed out even more with a diminished student base turning out a diminished workforce.

[CrescentMoonie]

Here's a solid argument for a new party, but I would call it libertarian or even conservative on the modern spectrum.

"This is a five-alarm fire. America needs a new party, one that will — in the present emergency — bravely rise to the defense of the republic and the grand alliance of the free nations which it leads. It needs a party of economic sanity, which will not destroy the basis of our livelihood through either a combination of trade war and immigration restriction, or top-down suppression of business. It needs a party of humanity, which rejects tribalism, not only for the harm it inflicts upon its targets but for the moral and intellectual degradation it infests within the minds and hearts of its converts. It needs a party of liberty, one which will defend not only the borders of freedom, but the ideas and institutions that make freedom possible."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The GOP and the conservative political wing could soon become overrun with support for protectionist tariffs, pro-Russian sentiment, and maybe even big social spending ... all anathema to the thinkers among them merely months ago.

I'd say they are. CPAC cheered talk of anti-trade policies and big spending on infrastructure. They cheered a higher debt. Heck, they had a flamboyant gay man as one of their headline speakers (something that had in the past caused groups to back out of in previous years). Polls have shown Putin go from hated among Republican voters to at least tolerable in just a couple years. I'd say Trump has changed the party a great deal in just the past year. It's far-left on spending and trade which would be death knells in old conservative circles.

It's funny but I actually think someone like Trump could pass things that once seemed unthinkable like universal health care or immigration reform. Health care would be be something the left would want and it'd be something his supporters would want if he told them to support it. Increased scrutiny on illegal immigration is also something popular with both parties but he's kind of fucked that up by focusing on legal immigrants instead of the real problem.

If he had targeted legislature from a populist perspective he could have gotten a lot of stuff done. But he doesn't seem interested in policy.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm against the GOP, but I have real issues with the fact (if true) that the intel community would be working to depose the elected leader of the country.

That's not a case where the enemy of my enemy is my ally.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I'm against the GOP, but I have real issues with the fact (if true) that the intel community would be working to depose the elected leader of the country.

That's not a case where the enemy of my enemy is my ally.

Even if he's been collaborating with a foreign power to obtain that election and is compromised by them?

(not saying at this point that he is - but it seems strange so many Republicans are 'ok' with this being a possibility and not wanting it looked into)

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Even if he's been collaborating with a foreign power to obtain that election and is compromised by them?

(not saying at this point that he is - but it seems strange so many Republicans are 'ok' with this being a possibility and not wanting it looked into)

I think that Congress should establish an independent (or truly bi-partisan) body to investigate the allegations of Russian interference with the election.

What I was referring to is the rumor/idea that some on the left have responded to with glee that the intel community is working behind the scenes to depose Trump. (I have no idea if this is true or not).

If Trump is properly investigated and then impeached or removed, I am fine with that.

If, however, he's brought down by from the inside by the intel community acting rogue, that's a very very very dangerous precedent.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

What I was referring to is the rumor/idea that some on the left have responded to with glee that the intel community is working behind the scenes to depose Trump. (I have no idea if this is true or not).
If Trump is properly investigated and then impeached or removed, I am fine with that.
If, however, he's brought down by from the inside by the intel community acting rogue, that's a very very very dangerous precedent.

I agree if they're acting rogue that would be very scary but outside of the president retweeting Breitbart articles I haven't seen anything which makes me think something untoward has occurred.

My present bets are placed as follows:

(1) Trump wasn't wiretapped initially but was present in conversations with Russians who were being wiretapped; that may have lead to monitoring of him for legitimate reasons.
(2) Trump is either scared and trying to hide things with mis-direction or he may be going senile (only other explanation I can think of why he tweets randomly from right wing news articles when he has ample opportunity to clarify things using his staff).

Its turning out to be an 'interesting' presidency in the best Chinese definition of the word ...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I agree if they're acting rogue that would be very scary but outside of the president retweeting Breitbart articles I haven't seen anything which makes me think something untoward has occurred.

My present bets are placed as follows:

(1) Trump wasn't wiretapped initially but was present in conversations with Russians who were being wiretapped; that may have lead to monitoring of him for legitimate reasons.
(2) Trump is either scared and trying to hide things with mis-direction or he may be going senile (only other explanation I can think of why he tweets randomly from right wing news articles when he has ample opportunity to clarify things using his staff).

Its turning out to be an 'interesting' presidency in the best Chinese definition of the word ...

We'll it's clear he spends more time golfing and socializing at his weekend getaway than attending Intel briefings. Much easier to get his Intel from Fox News and Breitbart.

[Easy Mac]

Executive Order Protecting The Nation From Foreign Terrorist Entry Into The United States | whitehouse.gov

[Easy Mac]

dola,

10 days until it goes into effect. I guess all the bad guys will come in by then, by the President's own words.

[albionmoonlight]

If I were the Dems, I'd get on the news praising the new EO. I'd time it for whenever you figure he's watching.

"Mr. Trump's original Executive Order was wrong, and he lacked the power to enact it. He called the judge in Washington a 'so-called judge.' He vowed to fight it to the end. But he was wrong. The judge was right. Today, Donald Trump rescinded that Executive Order and issued a new one.

Not every man can admit when he is weak. Not every man can admit when he is wrong. Donald Trump was weak; Donald Trump was wrong. And today, he admitted that. I admire his courage in doing so, and I am heartened by his acknowledgement that he, like all of us, stands subordinate to the legislative and judicial branches.

We all learn from our mistakes. I am glad that Donald Trump is finally learning."

[Drake]

Does anyone else recall reading articles during the election about how the FBI and intelligence agencies were all overwhelmingly "Pro Trump" and Hillary would find it a nightmare trying to work with them because of her serial dishonesty and bullshit?

I wonder if this has become a "be careful what you wish for" scenario for those guys yet.

[Easy Mac]

Classic media deflection. They all knew Hillary was going to lose, but they pretended she was going to win so they could plant a counter-narrative of a rogue intelligence community out to get her so that Trump would lower his defenses when it actually came to her.

There needs to be an investigation into this instead of Russia.

[larrymcg421]

Ben Carson.

[tarcone]

The American Health Care Act is available to view.

https://housegop.leadpages.co/healthcare/

Here is the replacement for the Affordable Care Act

[Jas_lov]

So instead of a mandate there's a surcharge and instead of subsidies there's refundable tax credits. Doesn't seem like it will cover more people for less cost like Trump promised. I don't see this getting 60 votes in the Senate.

[larrymcg421]

This will help the working class whites in the rust belt..

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

So instead of a mandate there's a surcharge and instead of subsidies there's refundable tax credits. Doesn't seem like it will cover more people for less cost like Trump promised. I don't see this getting 60 votes in the Senate.

Am I reading this right that the penalty for not having insurance goes to the insurance companies, not the IRS? That's amazing.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Ben Carson.

"Immigrants"

[Jas_lov]

Yes, and once people have a gap of 2 months in coverage it seems like the surcharge would just cause them to wait until they get sick to buy coverage.

[Drake]

At least Carson's comments make sense in the new context. If Historic Black Colleges are early examples of School Choice, then why can't slaves be immigrants aspiring to a better life?

[RainMaker]

It actually seems similar to Obamacare. They just changed some names around to make it seem different.

Biggest differences is that the insurance companies get a huge government handout and rich people get a tax cut which increases the debt.

[Drake]

34 percent fewer doctors and other health care providers accept Obamacare insurance compared to private insurance.

Also known as the doctors who won't take Medicare patients.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It actually seems similar to Obamacare. They just changed some names around to make it seem different.

Biggest differences is that the insurance companies get a huge government handout and rich people get a tax cut which increases the debt.

Not a shock when you figure that the insurance companies probably wrote the legislation.

Why yes, I did just watch the documentary "13th", why do you ask?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Classic media deflection. They all knew Hillary was going to lose, but they pretended she was going to win so they could plant a counter-narrative of a rogue intelligence community out to get her so that Trump would lower his defenses when it actually came to her.

There needs to be an investigation into this instead of Russia.

and this is EXACTLY why Trump's reckless bullshit is so dangerous. It's because people who should know better will eat it up.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It actually seems similar to Obamacare. They just changed some names around to make it seem different.

Biggest differences is that the insurance companies get a huge government handout and rich people get a tax cut which increases the debt.

And it greatly reduces funding for subsidies to cover cost of insurance.

[Drake]

I'd be in favor of a criminal immunity law for slapping anyone who utters the words "deep state" at any time in the next four years.

ETA: Where I define "deep state" as a way to blame the minority political party for the majority's inability to get their own actual shit together and get stuff done. In other words, it sounds stoopid if you say, "We didn't get what we wanted because the Democrats opposed us, despite the fact that we have majorities in level of government, probably down to your local school board." Much better if you invent an oligarchical "deep state" of Obamacrats who secretly control the reins of power and prevent the good guys from bringing goodness and justice to America. I'm surprised they didn't just call them the Demoncrat Illuminati and be done with it.

[JPhillips]

The GOP plan is to have the committees vote before the CBO has time to score the bill so nobody will know how much it costs or how many people lose coverage!

[larrymcg421]

I think the actual plan is for this to fail due to Democratic obstruction, so they can say they at least tried and blame the Dems for keeping Obamacare alive. I can't imagine any Republican actually wants this to pass. It doesn't look anything like what they've been talking about for the past 8 years. Where's the stuff about purchasing across state lines?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think the actual plan is for this to fail due to Democratic obstruction, so they can say they at least tried and blame the Dems for keeping Obamacare alive. I can't imagine any Republican actually wants this to pass. It doesn't look anything like what they've been talking about for the past 8 years. Where's the stuff about purchasing across state lines?

Why wouldn't Republicans want this to pass? It's what they wanted.