POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Danny]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The cold water version of that, for the Dems, is that everything they are touching turns to gold right now and everything the GOP is touching turns to weird, and Kamala still only has a very slight lead.

But were also not that far removed from Trump the messiah rising from the grave and being a national hero.

It was a quick turn around in a dead race to even things up. Now we see where things go the next few months

[Lathum]

The Walz video he does with his daughter, who was conceived through IVF and is named Hope, is hysterical. It showcases him as the everyman in contrast to video clips of JD Vance railing on about cat ladies and constant vitriol.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That is literally what the person said it was.

WATCH: @kasie speaks with one of the few people in Kamala Harris' inner circle as she chose her running mate – @CedricRichmond – about the veep selection process and why she picked Tim Walz. pic.twitter.com/CV9MXF888q

— CNN This Morning with Kasie Hunt (@CNNThisMorning) August 7, 2024

Thanks! That's not really my interpretation of that video but it was the set-up by the CNN host. Richmond listed 3 criteria at the start and didn't include Presidential ambition.

[cartman]

the vibes I get from Walz are like Tom Arnold's character in True Lies

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

first impressions of Walz, who I knew almost nothing about other than the photo of him signing the free breakfast/lunch for kids bill with all the kids around him are generally good-seems like a solid midwestern Democrat, loved that he was a social studies teacher like I was, had a few understandably nervous moments and tells which i would like to see him work on during these next 90+ days of the campaign but he didn't mispronounce or otherwise get names wrong, seemed with it and in the moment, like how he made sure to mention his main competitor for the job Shapiro and I think won't be as much of an attack dog as Shapiro would have been which is a good thing for the campaign I think.

Making this one long sentence really upped my anxiety level

But I agree and like the pick. If I was on the fence on Harris (I was already voting for her), this pick probably would have helped. I think this is a little like the Biden pick for Obama. We have this new African American face leading the party, so let's add "a fun old white grandpa" to the ticket to help get some white swing voters. Not the worst idea.

[albionmoonlight]

He’s not like the other guys. He’s hip to “Gender Queer.” He loves non-binary children. He knows that graphic depictions of vibrators, blowjobs, and strap-on dildos belong in every classroom. He knows that love is love. https://t.co/3p1FR3A2UE

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) August 6, 2024

"We're Not Weird!" they insist, as they focus on dildos in classrooms.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

I think one thing that non-Democrats miss is just how many of us want to bring our kids to school, go to work, come home and watch TV. We just want to be left alone.

Maybe this election will finally be the one that starts to open people's eyes to that fact.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

He’s not like the other guys. He’s hip to “Gender Queer.” He loves non-binary children. He knows that graphic depictions of vibrators, blowjobs, and strap-on dildos belong in every classroom. He knows that love is love. https://t.co/3p1FR3A2UE

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) August 6, 2024

"We're Not Weird!" they insist, as they focus on dildos in classrooms.

That guy is 100% a pedophile.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola:

I think one thing that non-Democrats miss is just how many of us want to bring our kids to school, go to work, come home and watch TV. We just want to be left alone.

Maybe this election will finally be the one that starts to open people's eyes to that fact.

I've heard the same thing about school board elections. Parents don't want to have to be concerned with that weird shit. Just teach my kid math and whatever. Don't need some screaming lunatic banning books black people wrote.

[cartman]

a book from one of the main pushers of the pizzagate conspiracy, Jack Posobiec called Unhumans: The Secret History of Communist Revolutions (and How to Crush Them) will have a forward written by, you guessed it, JD Vance.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I've heard the same thing about school board elections. Parents don't want to have to be concerned with that weird shit. Just teach my kid math and whatever. Don't need some screaming lunatic banning books black people wrote.

After COVID, a decent number of parents thought "Yeah, I think that liberals went a little too far with the school closures. I think I'll vote GOP this time."

And they quickly got buyers' remorse when those GOP members actually got into power and started closing down the libraries and the like.

[Qwikshot]

I think I wrote earlier in this thread somewhere, I miss the boring of politics.

Magats weaponized all aspects of government and continue to erode trust.

Nixon and Reaganism led the way; then the Bushies came in and W really ruined things, and now Trump is the final CODA.

It's amazing to think Trump and his Magat followers in 4 years destroyed most of what made America great.

It'll never go back to a functional process until most of the extermists die off, but you can see how many want to follow Trumpist way of escalation and attack.

Perhaps Harris will help calm things.

I don't see Trump conceding and I fully realize that he'll just run again should he "lose" this fall. GOP will never be rid of him until he expires and the question then is what monstrosity can replace him after that.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

Thanks! That's not really my interpretation of that video but it was the set-up by the CNN host. Richmond listed 3 criteria at the start and didn't include Presidential ambition.

It was set up because he had already made the statement before. He was trying to make it clear that wasn't the only reason. But the fact is there were 4 main competitors for the job (Kelly, Beshear, Shapiro, and Buttigieg) that all campaigned for the job looking for it to be a sling shot to the Presidency, but she chose the one guy who doesn't have that ambition. Whether that was the main reason he was chosen or not, Harris made the decision not to be the King maker for the next Democratic contender.

[RainMaker]

Shapiro would have fractured the party and been a huge headache when Israel starts a large regional war in the Middle East. Not to mention the stuff about covering up a murder for his friend and sexual harassment stuff in his office. Walz is just a nice boring Midwestern guy with humble roots.

If Shapiro wants to run in 2028 or 2032 and go through the primary process where voters can decide if that stuff matters, that's fine. But for the next 3 months I think you'd want as few headaches as possible from a VP.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The cold water version of that, for the Dems, is that everything they are touching turns to gold right now and everything the GOP is touching turns to weird, and Kamala still only has a very slight lead.

There's been a 5%-10% swing in polls in just a few weeks. I think that's pretty significant and they haven't even held their convention yet or major events. Things move fast and everything can change but it seems like the momentum is just continuing as evident by the absolute freakouts taking place on the right.

[RainMaker]

WaPo got text message exchange from Vance and a prominent white nationalist.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...johnson-texts/

[RainMaker]

Also LOL


https://abcnews.go.com/US/despite-ne...y?id=112616502

[Front Office Midget]

Many people I know are over the moon about Walz as VP pick. I'm not looking forward to the constant Fox News microscope about how Minneapolis is a crime-ridden hellscape. I'd say my slice of Minneapolis-St. Paul is about as good as it gets, on the metrics I care about- access to healthcare, access to jobs, public transit, green space, bicycle trails, diverse, LGBTQ-friendly, and generally friendly neighbors.

[Front Office Midget]

Originally Posted by cartman

a book from one of the main pushers of the pizzagate conspiracy, Jack Posobiec called Unhumans: The Secret History of Communist Revolutions (and How to Crush Them) will have a forward written by, you guessed it, JD Vance.

Dola- and the book's contents, are, unbelievably, worse than you would imagine. Essentially arguing that leftists are a subhuman group and we need methods outside of our current government's solutions to deal with them. Where have I heard that one again?

[albionmoonlight]

There's apparently audio of Trump praising Walz's response to the George Floyd protests.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Front Office Midget

Many people I know are over the moon about Walz as VP pick. I'm not looking forward to the constant Fox News microscope about how Minneapolis is a crime-ridden hellscape. I'd say my slice of Minneapolis-St. Paul is about as good as it gets, on the metrics I care about- access to healthcare, access to jobs, public transit, green space, bicycle trails, diverse, LGBTQ-friendly, and generally friendly neighbors.

As noted earlier in this thread, recently the Trump campaign and JD in particular seem to be leaning into the 'stolen valor' angle...because Walz said he carried a weapon once and he left the National Guard after 24 years instead of going to Iraq. They also have an actual consultant from Swift Boats for Kerry on staff. How they expect that strategy to work with Donald Trump's history/soundbites regarding the military (and the Republican's recent record of voting against vet benefits and blocking promotions) at the top of their ticket is anybody's guess.

[Lathum]

From listening to Walz the last couple days what stands out is he has outstanding timing both comedic and just when telling a story. It’s a stark contrast from Vance who sounds canned. I also think it’s funny how his needling the gop gets them so worked up as if they are the ones who have cornered the market on mocking their opponents. They are the definition of dishing it out but can’t take it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

As noted earlier in this thread, recently the Trump campaign and JD in particular seem to be leaning into the 'stolen valor' angle...because Walz said he carried a weapon once and he left the National Guard after 24 years instead of going to Iraq. They also have an actual consultant from Swift Boats for Kerry on staff. How they expect that strategy to work with Donald Trump's history/soundbites regarding the military (and the Republican's recent record of voting against vet benefits and blocking promotions) at the top of their ticket is anybody's guess.

The stolen valor thing is a really bad look for them IMO. As you said, this guy did 24 years and retirement packets aren't something you just drop and then separate. It's usually 8-12 months prior to separation. You can't just retire to get out of a deployment.

It's in-line with the GOP attacks on the military though. It's crazy that they have a nominee that dodged the draft, consistently block pro-military legislation, and mock and/or tear down any service member that isn't part of the cult and still claim to be the pro-military party.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The stolen valor thing is a really bad look for them IMO. As you said, this guy did 24 years and retirement packets aren't something you just drop and then separate. It's usually 8-12 months prior to separation. You can't just retire to get out of a deployment.

It's in-line with the GOP attacks on the military though. It's crazy that they have a nominee that dodged the draft, consistently block pro-military legislation, and mock and/or tear down any service member that isn't part of the cult and still claim to be the pro-military party.

But it's super similar to 2004.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

From listening to Walz the last couple days what stands out is he has outstanding timing both comedic and just when telling a story. It’s a stark contrast from Vance who sounds canned. I also think it’s funny how his needling the gop gets them so worked up as if they are the ones who have cornered the market on mocking their opponents. They are the definition of dishing it out but can’t take it.

what about his latest epic burn: "I'm not weird. YOU'RE weird!"

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

From listening to Walz the last couple days what stands out is he has outstanding timing both comedic and just when telling a story. It’s a stark contrast from Vance who sounds canned. I also think it’s funny how his needling the gop gets them so worked up as if they are the ones who have cornered the market on mocking their opponents. They are the definition of dishing it out but can’t take it.

I wonder if it's just that he's a normal person in a world of people who are not normal. Most big politicians have been in a bubble for most of their life. Prestiguous Ivy League schools, the same handful of law schools, worked for the same handful of think tanks or organizations. Spent most of their time around lobbyists and rich donors.

This guy spent most of his life just being a normal person. Went to a small state school, taught high school and coached football. It could just be that any normal person sounds good next to all these freaks in Washington. Harris, Vance, and Trump have probably not been to a hardware store in their adult life.

[JPhillips]

Probably doesn't matter much one way or the other, but if the plan is for Vance to chase Harris around the country that's going to backfire with the professional women the Trump campaign needs to win over.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Probably doesn't matter much one way or the other, but if the plan is for Vance to chase Harris around the country that's going to backfire with the professional women the Trump campaign needs to win over.

This election is starting to look more like 2020 where Trump had painted himself into a corner so badly there just weren't many voters left for him to pull in. His ceiling is looking like an close electoral college win by a few thousand votes over a handful of states.

[Arles]

I was talking with my dad about this and he made a great point. It's wild how Trump makes the worst comments, idiotic decisions (a la Vance), is completely tone deaf to most of America and yet, he has a decent chance to win in November.

I'm not really sure how much all this election noise even matters. Outside of another assassination attempt, it's just going to come down to turnout. Trump's turnout seems pretty much locked in stone at this point, it's just if the democrats come out in force (esp in battleground states) to support Harris. And I'm just not sure what will impact that at this point.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Anyway, for those making fun of Vance for being proud of his time served, here a glimpse into what he gained from it. It’s not a story about Sgt Rock, it’s a story about everyday Americans that choose to serve.

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Not relevant in this case. Attack the candidate all you want (and I personally think he is a terrible VP pick), but I take specific issue with the "lol he was a photographer" comment. You don't make fun of someone's service record unless you too served (or if they are blatantly lying about what they did, and even then, that's better left to being challenged by actual veterans).

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Agree with CW on this matter. But I also think it's cheesy to brag about your service

I invite all of you to weigh in again:

JD Vance went on the offensive on Wednesday, attacking the military record of Tim Walz, Kamala Harris’s vice-presidential pick.

Speaking in Michigan, Donald Trump’s Republican running mate said: “You know what really bothers me about Tim Walz? When the United States Marine Corps … asked me to go to Iraq to serve my country, I did it. I did what they asked me to do and I did it honorably, and I’m very proud of that service.

“When Tim Walz was asked by his country to go to Iraq, you know what he did? He dropped out of the army and allowed his unit to go without him.”

Now a US senator from Ohio, Vance, 40, deployed to Iraq in 2005, as a military journalist. Despite his title – combat correspondent – he did not experience combat.

Walz, 60, was in the army national guard for 24 years, in infantry and artillery, deploying in response to natural disasters on US soil and to Europe in support of operations in Afghanistan. He retired in 2005, to run for Congress, shortly before his unit deployed to Iraq.

JD Vance attacks Tim Walz’s military record as election race heats up | US elections 2024 | The Guardian

Of course Vance's running mate got bullshit deferments to avoid Vietnam. Curious he doesn't mention that.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The stolen valor thing is a really bad look for them IMO. As you said, this guy did 24 years and retirement packets aren't something you just drop and then separate. It's usually 8-12 months prior to separation. You can't just retire to get out of a deployment.

It's in-line with the GOP attacks on the military though. It's crazy that they have a nominee that dodged the draft, consistently block pro-military legislation, and mock and/or tear down any service member that isn't part of the cult and still claim to be the pro-military party.

Well, they always have Tampon Tim attacked to fall back on. Seriously, today's GOP are the most childish, insecure group of people I have ever seen, and these are people elected to lead. I can't imagine how hard other world leaders laugh at some of these Clowns now. Not a grown up in the room.

[GrantDawg]

Vance is a lying piece of shit. Walz put in his papers 2 months before his unit got the deployment order, and 10 months before thry deployed. He retired Honorably after 24 years of service.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[GrantDawg]

I'm guessing that this plan for the Trump campaign is to let Vance campaign on his own to try to salvage his image. Keep Trump out of sight, and try to show Vance as a scrapper.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm guessing that this plan for the Trump campaign is to let Vance campaign on his own to try to salvage his image. Keep Trump out of sight, and try to show Vance as a scrapper.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Their campaign is a mess. They've been pushing "VPs don't matter" because of Vance's unpopularity while shifting to attacking Walz because they haven't found an effective attack on Harris yet.

[bronconick]

They always do best in polling when Trump keeps his mouth shut and the media finds something else to attack. However, that's not something Trump is capable of doing.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by bronconick

They always do best in polling when Trump keeps his mouth shut and the media finds something else to attack. However, that's not something Trump is capable of doing.

and the more attention Harris/Walz get. The more attention Vance gets, positive or negative, with the DNC coming up, and with polls shifting to Harris he is for sure going to have to make himself the center of attention again and it wont go well for him.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Arles

Making this one long sentence really upped my anxiety level

But I agree and like the pick. If I was on the fence on Harris (I was already voting for her), this pick probably would have helped. I think this is a little like the Biden pick for Obama. We have this new African American face leading the party, so let's add "a fun old white grandpa" to the ticket to help get some white swing voters. Not the worst idea.

Sorry for the anxiety attack. haven't posted much in this thread recently with the anxiety it was causing me

[Lathum]

Laura Ingraham: If you know Minnesota well, and I know it well -- especially Milwaukee -- it's changed. pic.twitter.com/2L0HvrHMo6

— aliciasadowski (@aliciasadowski6) August 7, 2024

[HerRealName]

If Walz was able to take Milwaukee, surely he can finish off what we started in 1812 and take Canada.

[RainMaker]

According to his financial disclosure, Walz owns no stocks. Guess that made the vetting a little easier.

[RainMaker]

On their way to a 15 year old’s OBGYN appt pic.twitter.com/63TTCQXXsX

— Christine Nangle (@nanglish) August 7, 2024

[Ksyrup]

According to polling, Trump's most effective argument against Harris is the border. Whether or not they are overstating her involvement/influence on Biden policies, the fact is it's almost singularly his best attack right now. I think he was 6 points ahead of her on the issue in the poll I saw.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

How they expect that strategy to work with Donald Trump's history/soundbites regarding the military (and the Republican's recent record of voting against vet benefits and blocking promotions) at the top of their ticket is anybody's guess.

After Trump recalled McCain saying something that Trump considered an insult to him and his supporters, "I said, 'Somebody should run against McCain,' who has been, in my opinion, not so hot. And I supported him for president! I raised a million dollars for him. That's a lot of money! I supported him. He lost. He let us down. But he lost. So I never liked him much after that, because I don't like losers."

Amid audience laughter, the moderator, Republican pollster Frank Luntz, then interjected, "But he's a war hero!"

Trump responded, "He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured."

It worked before.

Before anyone starts, I have zero interest in engaging in the discourse over whether it is okay for a civilian who has not served to denigrate and/or insult a veteran's service. Like everything else, if your guy/gal does it, it is funny/cool/just telling the truth. If the other guy/gal does it, it is disrespectful/insulting. That line has already been crossed.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

From listening to Walz the last couple days what stands out is he has outstanding timing both comedic and just when telling a story.

No lie, some of the funniest people I've ever met have been my social studies teachers.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

It worked before.

Fair point.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

It worked before.

Before anyone starts, I have zero interest in engaging in the discourse over whether it is okay for a civilian who has not served to denigrate and/or insult a veteran's service. Like everything else, if your guy/gal does it, it is funny/cool/just telling the truth. If the other guy/gal does it, it is disrespectful/insulting. That line has already been crossed.

Did it work? An Arizona Republican hasn't won a major state race in years. The candidates he backs keep getting walloped.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

and the more attention Harris/Walz get. The more attention Vance gets, positive or negative, with the DNC coming up, and with polls shifting to Harris he is for sure going to have to make himself the center of attention again and it wont go well for him.

And almost on cue he schedules a press conference for today. It’s likely going to be a horror show of maga lies and stupidity.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Did it work? An Arizona Republican hasn't won a major state race in years. The candidates he backs keep getting walloped.

a friend reminded me that the original swiftboating also came from a draft dodger.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

a friend reminded me that the original swiftboating also came from a draft dodger.

The original worked better because they separated it from the campaign. It was technically an independent group of concerned veterans. These attacks are coming from the candidates themselves which I don't think will play well. But who knows? This country and it's fake patriotism is tough to peg.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Vance is a lying piece of shit. Walz put in his papers 2 months before his unit got the deployment order, and 10 months before thry deployed. He retired Honorably after 24 years of service.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

I'll add this,

When I was Active Duty Air Force, it was actually pretty normal that once an enlisted person hit 20 years, s/he would just coast along until deployment orders came along, then they would drop their retirement paperwork.

Not saying this this applies to Walz since he put in his paperwork before deployment orders came down.