The Biden Presidency - 2020

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Create is one thing, but what legal scholars are arguing that this will pass constitutional muster?

I was parodying one of Trump's lines.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I was parodying one of Trump's lines.

I completely missed this one then.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So Joe Biden claims the eviction moratorium is likely unconstitutional yet extends it anyways.

Isn't there something Trumpian about this? It seems like Joe is going to do what he wants until the court denies his actions.

He's playing stallball, hoping that the states/Congress will finally give out more of the other 95% of the $45 billion in rent relief that should have been given out months ago before the Supreme Court strikes it down.

[JPhillips]

Today's GOP line appears to be that it is outrageous for anyone, including medical professionals, to advise people to get vaccinated.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Today's GOP line appears to be that it is outrageous for anyone, including medical professionals, to advise people to get vaccinated.

They have been trying to spread the virus for over a year now. I think their stance has been remarkably consistent from the start.

[Atocep]

Biden rocking the tan suit today was awesome.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So Joe Biden claims the eviction moratorium is likely unconstitutional yet extends it anyways.

Isn't there something Trumpian about this? It seems like Joe is going to do what he wants until the court denies his actions.

I agree, and I am outraged about it. Stunts like this merely concede any moral high ground, and further normalize this kind of crap. Obama did too much via Executive Order due to a do-nothing Congress, Trump just DGAF and his team were basically Bond villains, and now it's just becoming the way to do things. It's awful, and Biden should have been the guy to step in and just shit it down.

And no, I don't favor a tsunami or evictions, in practice. Pass a bill, that's what the courts said you had to do.

[Edward64]

I sympathize with your sentiment but Congress was not able to make anything happen. Honestly don't know how hard they tried but nevertheless, it wasn't going to happen.

Biden had a pretty good excuse. Delta infections are increasing and there is a fair chance it'll get bad again (not as bad as last year but still pretty bad).

Overall, weighing the pros & cons, I'm good with it for a few more months. Yeah, eventually, people need to be removed from the spigot but not now, and not all at once. Do it in phases.

And make vaccination a condition for eligibility (and for any other government programs).

[Edward64]

Com'on, let's get this over with and go onto the $3.5T bill (stock market needs a boost!). No way it'll end up being $3.5T but need to start negotiations somewhere with the GOP (and Dems). Ready to see Joe's bipartisanship skills in action again.

The Senate voted to break a filibuster Saturday and advance a massive $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package after months of furious negotiations, clearing a major hurdle for President Joe Biden's agenda even as it will soon face an uncertain future in the House.

Eighteen GOP senators joined Democrats to shut down debate on the bill Saturday afternoon. Senators are confident the bill will pass, but it's now just a matter of how long that takes with the exact timing of a final vote still unclear. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer announced on the floor Saturday that the Senate would reconvene Sunday at noon to resume consideration of the bill.

"We've been working hard all day on amendments and hopefully we can come to some agreement tomorrow but the time is burning as we go forward," Schumer said.

[Brian Swartz]

I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this than it is, because as I said before it's not as if we haven't had a tradition of abusing executive orders for 50 years now. That said, the whole point of having separation of powers goes out the window though if we can circumvent that when we think we have a good reason to. If it doesn't apply when the executive thinks they have a good reason, it doesn't ever apply. Congress not taking action just means the consequences are on them - and on the President for waiting till the last minute to a degree.

Originally Posted by Edward64

make vaccination a condition for eligibility (and for any other government programs).

I'm also a hard no on this. If we starting tying aid to people's personal medical decisions, it's no different than having a federal vaccine mandate. Freedom is messy but worth preserving, and as discussed previously we tolerate all manner of other behaviors that endanger others as a nation.

[Lathum]

Biden was in a no win with the eviction moratorium and just another mess Trump left him. If he does what he did he gets slammed for ruling by EO, etc. if he lets it expire we all damn well know the headlines for days on Fox News etc. would be “Biden’s housing crisis”

[Edward64]

Belongs in the Obama thread but didn't want to bring it back.

Disappointed that Obama continued to hold his b-day party. The CDC doesn't ban big get togethers but certainly has guidelines. Debatable that the guidelines were followed but regardless, bad example to set.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I sympathize with your sentiment but Congress was not able to make anything happen. Honestly don't know how hard they tried but nevertheless, it wasn't going to happen.

Biden had a pretty good excuse. Delta infections are increasing and there is a fair chance it'll get bad again (not as bad as last year but still pretty bad).

Overall, weighing the pros & cons, I'm good with it for a few more months. Yeah, eventually, people need to be removed from the spigot but not now, and not all at once. Do it in phases.

And make vaccination a condition for eligibility (and for any other government programs).

Umm, no. Biden did not have a good excuse. He believed he was about to violate the constitution and did it anyways. That's kind of opposite of the oath he took to defend the constitution. Congress failing to act does not give the president a free-hand to do whatever the hell he wants.

Maybe the moratorium was a good idea, maybe it wasn't. I'm still kind of on the fence personally. But with the availability of vaccines i think it is less needed nowadays.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I'm also a hard no on this. If we starting tying aid to people's personal medical decisions, it's no different than having a federal vaccine mandate. Freedom is messy but worth preserving, and as discussed previously we tolerate all manner of other behaviors that endanger others as a nation.

Getting vaccinated is not a "personal medical decision". People that don't get vaccinated are endangering others. As a general rule, you don't get to get away with endangering others in our society without consequences. If we do, I don't know about it. If government is not going to protect people's lives, what the fuck is it here for

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Butter

As a general rule, you don't get to get away with endangering others in our society without consequences. If we do, I don't know about it.

Sure we do. We don't enforce people having a minimal carbon footprint. The impact of this vis a vis climate change is far greater than that of the vaccination issue. We don't ban products produced in dangerous sweat-shop conditions, endangering those who work there.

Originally Posted by Butter

If government is not going to protect people's lives, what the fuck is it here for

To serve the people and ensure they have the freedoms they are supposed to have. Protecting people's lives is part of that, but where to draw the line on freedom vs. protection is not always easy to determine. I.e., martial law could eliminate most of the violent crime we have, but I don't see any widespread movement in favor of that. We've determined a certain amount of murder, assault, etc. is an acceptable price to pay for liberties society desires.

[GrantDawg]

I am totally against any kind of forced medical procedure unless the person is incapable of making their own decisions. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[kingfc22]

Polio wishing it was around in 2021

[JPhillips]

We don't need the government to mandate vaccinations, except for federal employees, we just need to allow private companies to do their thing. Enough will mandate vaccinations that only the off-the-grid set will stay unvaccinated.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Polio wishing it was around in 2021

Well technically it still is, thankfully in fewer numbers than posters on this board.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Sure we do. We don't enforce people having a minimal carbon footprint. The impact of this vis a vis climate change is far greater than that of the vaccination issue. We don't ban products produced in dangerous sweat-shop conditions, endangering those who work there.



To serve the people and ensure they have the freedoms they are supposed to have. Protecting people's lives is part of that, but where to draw the line on freedom vs. protection is not always easy to determine. I.e., martial law could eliminate most of the violent crime we have, but I don't see any widespread movement in favor of that. We've determined a certain amount of murder, assault, etc. is an acceptable price to pay for liberties society desires.

If you think that individual people are responsible for much of the global warming problem, you're an idiot

[Brian Swartz]

I'm pretty sure you already think I'm an idiot, but I'll happily confirm it for you. By your definition, I'm proud to be one.

In the US, the two largest sources of greenhouse gas emissions by a goodly margin are transportation and electricity. Almost 60% of the emissions from transportation comes from passenger vehicles. Almost 40% of electricity is sold to residential use (that would be individuals, eventually at some point in the chain). The remaining that's used for commercial/industrial is largely used to produce goods and services ... for individuals. It's complicated whether you want to blame corporations or individuals there - I vote both - but certainly individuals need to shoulder a hefty amount of the blame. Better government policy would help of course in terms of what sectors we focus on. Who elects our politicians again? Yep, that's right - individuals.

No matter how you slice it, individual decisions have a *lot* to do with greenhouse gas emissions.

[albionmoonlight]

It probably does not end up amounting to anything electorally, but I am seeing a level of anger that I am not used to out there. Basically a lot of "We literally stopped our lives for 18 months and you fuckers won't get a shot?" type stuff.

I am used to the right wing being angry. I can't remember the last time they weren't. Maybe pre-Clinton?

But Liberals/moderates tend to be motivated by other things.

But not with the pandemic of the deliberately unvaccinated. They/we are angry.

It may amount to nothing. The 2022 midterms are still a ways away. But to the extent the GOP is trying to win back the suburban housewives, I think that the "We are joyfully putting your immunocompromised child's life at risk" message is drowning out the "The Mexican Caravan is back! And this time we mean it!" message.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It probably does not end up amounting to anything electorally, but I am seeing a level of anger that I am not used to out there. Basically a lot of "We literally stopped our lives for 18 months and you fuckers won't get a shot?" type stuff.

I am used to the right wing being angry. I can't remember the last time they weren't. Maybe pre-Clinton?

But Liberals/moderates tend to be motivated by other things.

But not with the pandemic of the deliberately unvaccinated. They/we are angry.

It may amount to nothing. The 2022 midterms are still a ways away. But to the extent the GOP is trying to win back the suburban housewives, I think that the "We are joyfully putting your immunocompromised child's life at risk" message is drowning out the "The Mexican Caravan is back! And this time we mean it!" message.

I like the messaging "we literally stopped our lives for 18 months ..." message. It would resonate if it was this year. Unfortunately, this time next year we should be in the clear and it'll be the $3.5T fight and typical GOP/Dem messaging.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I like the messaging "we literally stopped our lives for 18 months ..." message. It would resonate if it was this year. Unfortunately, this time next year we should be in the clear and it'll be the $3.5T fight and typical GOP/Dem messaging.

You really think that by the time messaging for 2022 comes out we will be in the clear?

Delta has made things a shit show and it is the summer. In my anecdotal evidence schools are requiring masks, etc...( except the states they want to kill kids) and things likely will get worse not better once winter/school starts. Trust me when I say nothing will piss off the suburban housewives more than if their kids are still wearing masks in school, having shutdown, etc...next spring.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You really think that by the time messaging for 2022 comes out we will be in the clear?

Delta has made things a shit show and it is the summer. In my anecdotal evidence schools are requiring masks, etc...( except the states they want to kill kids) and things likely will get worse not better once winter/school starts. Trust me when I say nothing will piss off the suburban housewives more than if their kids are still wearing masks in school, having shutdown, etc...next spring.

Not all in the clear.

If it was 10 last year, and 7-8 rest of this year, I'm thinking 2-3 this time next year in the US.

FDA will have approved vaccine by then. Probably approved for <12. The undecideds will have gotten vaccinated. Pregnant women will have enough evidence (from the 2021, early 2022 births) to feel good (hopefully).

So yeah, it'll be over this time next year. We'll be in the new normal with annual covid/flu shots.

For non-Western countries, bits and pieces I've been reading indicates they are starting to get vaccines. Like where the US was in Jan. I think the worst will be over for most of them also.

[Lathum]

You have way more faith in our fellow Americans than I do.

I don't think FDA approval will mean shit. The goalposts will just move for peoples reasoning.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not all in the clear.

If it was 10 last year, and 7-8 rest of this year, I'm thinking 2-3 this time next year in the US.

FDA will have approved vaccine by then. Probably approved for <12. The undecideds will have gotten vaccinated. Pregnant women will have enough evidence (from the 2021, early 2022 births) to feel good (hopefully).

So yeah, it'll be over this time next year. We'll be in the new normal with annual covid/flu shots.

For non-Western countries, bits and pieces I've been reading indicates they are starting to get vaccines. Like where the US was in Jan. I think the worst will be over for most of them also.

I think you are living a Repub / Indy dream world this thing is far from over.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You have way more faith in our fellow Americans than I do.

I don't think FDA approval will mean shit. The goalposts will just move for peoples reasoning.

FDA approval isn't going to move the needle for most hold outs, but we will see a lot companies start to require vaccination once it receives FDA approval. Then those people will get to decide just how anti-vax they are.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

FDA approval isn't going to move the needle for most hold outs, but we will see a lot companies start to require vaccination once it receives FDA approval. Then those people will get to decide just how anti-vax they are.

I agree it won't make much of a diff for those set against it.

I do think there are undecideds that will get vaccinated. There are approx 50M kids under <11 right now. So getting FDA approval for <12 will make a huge difference.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You have way more faith in our fellow Americans than I do.

I don't think FDA approval will mean shit. The goalposts will just move for peoples reasoning.

FWIW, see other post I made about FDA approval

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I think you are living a Repub / Indy dream world this thing is far from over.

Originally Posted by Lathum

You have way more faith in our fellow Americans than I do.

I don't think FDA approval will mean shit. The goalposts will just move for peoples reasoning.

So where do you think we'll be this time next year?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You have way more faith in our fellow Americans than I do.

I don't think FDA approval will mean shit. The goalposts will just move for peoples reasoning.

Same. There will always be a new excuse not to do it so they can show their fealty to their king.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So where do you think we'll be this time next year?

Frustrated.

[Ben E Lou]

"The FDA is an agency that's under Biden. Sleepy Joe and Dr. Fauci MADE them approve it."


Tucker Carlson now owes me $$$ for writing the outline for his entire show 2 weeks from now.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So where do you think we'll be this time next year?

I think it depends more on how the virus mutates than anything else. What happens with Lambda. Are there others out there that we discover. Etc. My best guess is slightly better than we're doing now, not nearly as good as we want it to be, and we'll still be fighting the same vaccinated vs. unvaccinated battle although numbers of vaccinated will def. be higher than they are now. How many double-dip to get the boosters will be of more interest to me.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

"The FDA is an agency that's under Biden. Sleepy Joe and Dr. Fauci MADE them approve it."


Tucker Carlson now owes me $$$ for writing the outline for his entire show 2 weeks from now.

Rand Paul has already put out a video saying people shouldn't listen to anything the CDC says. It isn't hard to add the FDA to the list.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Rand Paul has already put out a video saying people shouldn't listen to anything the CDC says. It isn't hard to add the FDA to the list.

You'd expect a more nuanced stance from a sitting Senator and practicing ophthalmologist than "they can't arrest all of us!".

[NobodyHere]

Cuomo is resigning in two weeks.

By the way, I think we need a "State and Local" politics thread as news such as this isn't really part of the Biden Presidency.

[Brian Swartz]

Eh, I think it's related. We tend to use these presidential threads for 'politics during said presidency'. Plus, he gets some credit for moving quickly to call on Cuomo to resign.

[albionmoonlight]

Cuomo was just as dirty as Trump. And he seemed just as untouchable. But then his party turned on him, so he lost power. That's all it takes.

Trump remains relevant only because elected GOP leaders want him to.

Maybe the single biggest myth going on right now is that the GOP leaders don't want Trump around, but they have to because they are afraid of his base. Bullshit. His base follows him because he's a winner. If the GOP had turned on him, he would have been removed from office in disgrace, and his followers would be following someone else now.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Cuomo was just as dirty as Trump. And he seemed just as untouchable. But then his party turned on him, so he lost power. That's all it takes.

Trump remains relevant only because elected GOP leaders want him to.

Maybe the single biggest myth going on right now is that the GOP leaders don't want Trump around, but they have to because they are afraid of his base. Bullshit. His base follows him because he's a winner. If the GOP had turned on him, he would have been removed from office in disgrace, and his followers would be following someone else now.

It's the same reason why the both sides-ism of "they're both the same and both extreme", peddled here and elsewhere, is complete bullshit. The left keeps kneecapping their left flank - they did it by running bland, vanilla, old centrist white guy Biden. Hell, they did it again in Ohio last week. Meanwhile, the GOP is trying to primary anyone who voted against Trump and we have governors offering up kids as "freedom sacrifices" to run for higher office. And, of course, if this were, say, DeSantis - would he be resigning or doubling down?

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Here's part of the problem:

BREAKING: After relentlessly attacking President Biden and downplaying the COVID threat in Florida, Ron DeSantis is now requesting 300 ventilators from President Biden.

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) August 10, 2021

This isn't DeSantis asking to borrow Biden's Camero.

This is the head executive of one sovereign asking the head executive of another sovereign--through proper legal channels--for materials.

Trump acted like the federal government was his personal property to dole out as he pleased. And I thought that we all agreed that that was (1) illegal, and (2) horrible.

So to see the media reinforcing that framing just to make DeSantis look bad is disappointing.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

It's the same reason why the both sides-ism of "they're both the same and both extreme", peddled here and elsewhere, is complete bullshit. The left keeps kneecapping their left flank - they did it by running bland, vanilla, old centrist white guy Biden. Hell, they did it again in Ohio last week. Meanwhile, the GOP is trying to primary anyone who voted against Trump and we have governors offering up kids as "freedom sacrifices" to run for higher office. And, of course, if this were, say, DeSantis - would he be resigning or doubling down?

SI

What's the point in bringing up Biden's race?

[JPhillips]

Median pay for a CPD officer in 2018 was just under 100k. That's pay, not including benefits.

I'd be happy if my boss didn't have my back if I also got that kind of compensation package.

[NobodyHere]

Where do you get your information from?

Police Officer Salary in Chicago, IL

[QuikSand]

Before this descends into oblivion... police base salaries are often spartan, but many officers log overtime in scheduled ways and end up drawing a good deal more in pure salary than their published base pay. Not saying it's right or wrong, just that it's so.

[cuervo72]

Lone data point, but perhaps the biggest house on our cul-de-sac is owned by a cop. Or I should say, retired cop, as he's been retired at least five years (he's not all that older than I am, I don't think). I don't know what other circumstances there are there, but he did ok it seems.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Lone data point, but perhaps the biggest house on our cul-de-sac is owned by a cop. Or I should say, retired cop, as he's been retired at least five years (he's not all that older than I am, I don't think). I don't know what other circumstances there are there, but he did ok it seems.

We live in a solid middle/upper middle class area. Smallest house on my street just sold for 730K. The house next door is a retired cop.

[albionmoonlight]

Another lone data point, but my friend's dad growing up was a forensic lab cop. And he spent a lot of evenings doing private security for a ritzy neighborhood in New Orleans. Basically, he'd get in his cop uniform and cop car and park on the main street and read magazines and "be a police presence" in the neighborhood.

Like Q, I have no real opinion on the good or bad of that practice. I do know it was all legit and above board. And b/c his car and uniform are what made him an attractive candidate for that job, one would probably best classify it as a perk inherent to the job.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Where do you get your information from?

Police Officer Salary in Chicago, IL

Those salaries are wrong. Police officers in Chicago make $75,000 after 18 months and that doesn't include overtime and benefits.

From 2016 numbers, the average salary was over $86k a year. Pensions are 75% of your salary and you only have to work 20 years to fully vest. The contribution is also 3% less than what you pay into Social Security while receiving 3-4 times the amount they receive monthly.

It's a really great-paying job with an incredible pension for unskilled people who can't be fired.