FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Note to anyone trying to verify this: when trying to Google "Charlotte Asian slur," you might want to pay attention to what you actually type. The "t"is right next to the "r" on your keyboard.

Oh c'mon. There can't be THAT many Asian sluts named Charlotte.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

On both sides. She keeps saying don't do it but at the same time I don't see a gun laying where the pictures showed there is suppose to be one.

I'm hearing a lot of buzz from the left saying that this video definitely proves that the cops planted the gun.

They must have better eyes than me.

[bhlloy]

of course CNN just has the cellphone video on loop. At what point does this just become voyeur and sensationalism instead of responsible reporting? Not that I need that question answered about any of our so called news channels. I'm sure Fox has dug up a link of the guy smoking weed and rapping and is playing that on loop instead

[Ben E Lou]

Ok. THIS is a weird one. There's obviously more to this story (i.e. the real reason she fired the weapon).

Short version: white cop shot in the abdomen, vest probably saves her life.....and makes up story that black man fired a weapon at her to cover up for.....something.

GBI: Jackson police officer fabricated story of shooting, plante - WTVM.com-Columbus, GA News Weather & Sports

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

My seen-too-many-movies mind is going crazy with a need to know what circumstances about her shooting were so bad that she felt the need to make up a shooter.

[Ben E Lou]

Double dola that circles back to comments earlier about requirements for becoming an officer:

Before becoming a cop, she had a felony conviction for first-degree criminal damage to property.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Uh huh. Of COURSE it's someone else's fault. Personality responsibility being an abhorrent concept these days.

I honestly pity anyone who buys into such bullshit.

Like Trump supporters who blame everything on the Chinese, Mexicans, Muslims, etc. Not their fault their job prospects are dwindling.

(Very few are 100% in control of their situation.)

[NobodyHere]

A guy has been arrested in the shooting of the Charlotte protester

Charlotte police chief: Suspect arrested in deadly shooting of protester - CBS News

I wonder if this will put an end to the Rubber Bullet Theory

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

A guy has been arrested in the shooting of the Charlotte protester

Charlotte police chief: Suspect arrested in deadly shooting of protester - CBS News

I wonder if this will put an end to the Rubber Bullet Theory

The suspects name, according to the CMPD Twitter, is Rayquan Borum.

Now I'm going out on a limb here but I'm gonna guess this wasn't a white guy they arrested.

[Suicane75]

I'm not sure things aren't going to get ugly in Eastern Michigan.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The suspects name, according to the CMPD Twitter, is Rayquan Borum.

Now I'm going out on a limb here but I'm gonna guess this wasn't a white guy they arrested.

No, his mugshot is online (not sure if it's for this incident or the numerous other arrests for violent crimes he has on his rap sheet).

Sad that the community would rather push a false narrative than get a violent murderer off the street. But I guess that's why the community is in the shape it is.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Ok. THIS is a weird one. There's obviously more to this story (i.e. the real reason she fired the weapon).

Short version: white cop shot in the abdomen, vest probably saves her life.....and makes up story that black man fired a weapon at her to cover up for.....something.

GBI: Jackson police officer fabricated story of shooting, plante - WTVM.com-Columbus, GA News Weather & Sports

Not sure if this got national press but this was huge here in Chicago. Cop was pilfering funds from the "Junior Explorer Program" (gets kids involved in police stuff or something). When he was about to get caught for that he called in saying he had been shot by 3 black guys he was chasing, then shot himself, threw his gun, and died. There was a huge manhunt for these 3 imaginary criminals. In the end after a couple months (after a huge funeral, tons of adoration and support for the famliy) they realized it was a suicide.

Crazy story if anyone wants a good read. More stuff about how his wife was involved and indicted, how he had planned to put out a hit with a gang member on the woman who was investigating the stolen funds too.

A year after Fox Lake cop shot in staged suicide, fallout isn't over - Chicago Tribune

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'm not sure things aren't going to get ugly in Eastern Michigan.

Don't worry, the Eastern Michigan football game is almost over.

[RainMaker]

A lot of those incidences at colleges turn out to be hoaxes.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

of course CNN just has the cellphone video on loop. At what point does this just become voyeur and sensationalism instead of responsible reporting? Not that I need that question answered about any of our so called news channels. I'm sure Fox has dug up a link of the guy smoking weed and rapping and is playing that on loop instead

You should watch Fox News instead of fearing it. If you are a left-singer, you won't like it, but at least you get to see two perspectives. I watch Fox News and CNN so that I can learn a little bit more than what one sides activists will tell me.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Dola:

My seen-too-many-movies mind is going crazy with a need to know what circumstances about her shooting were so bad that she felt the need to make up a shooter.

I wonder if she shot herself for some kind of attention. You never know in cases like this.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not sure if this got national press but this was huge here in Chicago. Cop was pilfering funds from the "Junior Explorer Program" (gets kids involved in police stuff or something). When he was about to get caught for that he called in saying he had been shot by 3 black guys he was chasing, then shot himself, threw his gun, and died. There was a huge manhunt for these 3 imaginary criminals. In the end after a couple months (after a huge funeral, tons of adoration and support for the famliy) they realized it was a suicide.

Crazy story if anyone wants a good read. More stuff about how his wife was involved and indicted, how he had planned to put out a hit with a gang member on the woman who was investigating the stolen funds too.

A year after Fox Lake cop shot in staged suicide, fallout isn't over - Chicago Tribune

I did read about that one. It was either at CNN or FOX's web site, I'm pretty sure.

[larrymcg421]

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Release Video from Scott Shooting - YouTube

Yeah this video isn't going to calm anything down. Even if he had a gun, which isn't clear from the video, he certainly isn't walking towards the officers with it as was rumored earlier in the thread. He's slowly backing away.

[cuervo72]

It probably won't, but I don't think it disproves anything either. He's backing away from his car, but he's also moving in a direction where the truck might not provide cover for the officers anymore.

It might back the claim that he had an ankle holster too - if you look at his pants, his right cuff is bunched up well above his ankle. That would be consistent with the idea that he had pulled a gun from there (his left pantleg looks normal).

[larrymcg421]

4 p.m.: Channel 9 has confirmed with sources that there is dash camera video that shows Keith Scott getting out a car and coming toward officers with a gun in his hands.

This is the quote from earlier in the thread I was talking about. I don't know who the source is, but I hope they never use that person again, because it was a blatant lie.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Release Video from Scott Shooting - YouTube

Yeah this video isn't going to calm anything down. Even if he had a gun, which isn't clear from the video, he certainly isn't walking towards the officers with it as was rumored earlier in the thread. He's slowly backing away.

It's a bit of both isn't it? He's backing slowly towards the officers. He certainly hasn't raised/pointed an arm let alone a wepaon at anyone, and yes, there could be an ankle holster there too.

However, overall it doesn't look good - you could have understood a taser being used, as he is clearly not doing what the officers want, but a bullet does look OTT.

It comes down to two things, neither of which are going to change: when you don't comply with police officers requests, you are infinitely more likely to have something bad happen to you, and where guns are involved the risk of the consequences are massively increased.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by AlexB

It comes down to two things, neither of which are going to change: when you don't comply with police officers requests, you are infinitely more likely to have something bad happen to you, and where guns are involved the risk of the consequences are massively increased.

Sure, those two things are very real. Totally agreed.

But if you think that's all it "comes down to" you're missing the key and current element of this, the one that many people desperately hope can change:

When you're a dark-skinned male, all these risks and consequences are much much more dire for you than otherwise. It's a different set of probabilities.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Sure, those two things are very real. Totally agreed.

But if you think that's all it "comes down to" you're missing the key and current element of this, the one that many people desperately hope can change:

When you're a dark-skinned male, all these risks and consequences are much much more dire for you than otherwise. It's a different set of probabilities.

That's why I deliberately didn't day 'it all comes down to two things..'

But also even more reason to comply and not escalate the situation. I remember a post by Ben a couple of years ago about being stopped and making sure that his hand was outside the car window so could be seen he was unarmed

I read that as Ben feeling forced to overcomply, and it shouldn't have to be that, but unless/until things calm down maybe there ought to be a push for compliance to be a thing, in conjunction with police officers make it policy to taser rather than shoot if they feel close-quarter action is necessary (obviously it would best if neither were needed)

I'm an outsider on this, so could be said to be either objective or naive (or both I guess), but it's going to have to take something like this to change, as at the moment the situation is spiralling the wrong way: more people are seemingly becoming more volatile and confrontational, and this would logically seem to increase police officers likelihood to feel that they need to protect themselves (rightly or wrongly so - as above, I've already said that video doesn't to me seem to show the officer shooting was immediately obvious)

The protests have been seen internationally, not just in the US, there is an agreement that there is an issue, but the direction is not one of solution at the moment. More awareness and good has been done by Kaepernick's and others' protests than has been by an increase in violence to protest violence.

(Or as I type this maybe it could be argued that the two aspects needed to happen together to allow both sides to step back from something)

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

This is the quote from earlier in the thread I was talking about. I don't know who the source is, but I hope they never use that person again, because it was a blatant lie.

Witnesses SUCK. Are we ever going to understand that? The "witnesses" to the shooting of Michael Brown lied and sent that investigation off the rails.

But when you really break it down, how much is "lies" and how much is how our perceptions are skewed? If your perception is the police screw you 100% of the time, then you'll say one thing. If your perception is "non white people are more aggressive" that is likely going to cause your perception of an event to change.

Here is an article about eye witness testimony and accuracy:

Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts - Scientific American

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Sure, those two things are very real. Totally agreed.

But if you think that's all it "comes down to" you're missing the key and current element of this, the one that many people desperately hope can change:

When you're a dark-skinned male, all these risks and consequences are much much more dire for you than otherwise. It's a different set of probabilities.

It seems like it is a thing for black teens to be seen as tough. You will never have the most highly educated people in the world wake up and put on a uniform and get shot at. Can't fix stupid, stupid cops will do wrong thing based on what is happening in society. They won't take each situation separate.

If you told me something was 6 times more likely to kill you, you'd try to be that much quicker to react when it got to that point. This can create situations when you act wrongly. Less smart you are the more often it occurs. Much deeper than just cops being racist.

I remember back in 2001 this nation seemed like it was getting closer and closer.to being one. Sad media is doing this to our country for money. I promise you there are less racist people than in years past but race is becoming more and more issue. Fuck off media, money and power whores.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Sure, those two things are very real. Totally agreed.

But if you think that's all it "comes down to" you're missing the key and current element of this, the one that many people desperately hope can change:

When you're a dark-skinned male, all these risks and consequences are much much more dire for you than otherwise. It's a different set of probabilities.

Do we have those statistics Quik? I've looked for them and can't find anything on the "specific" point brought up in the post you replied to. I don't know how we could even get the statistic, which is a shame, because I think it does have a great deal of relevance to the discussion.

The statistic in question is NOT just a simple arrest, number pulled over by police or raw % of people shot by police compared to the general population.

The statistic I'd love to know is what is the difference between complying with the police and not complying with the police instructions. If 100 white guys don't comply with orders, how many are shot compared to the same 100 of other races. Beyond that, what is the percentage of whites who comply with orders vs other races.

I'm of the opinion that "fixing" this is going to involve a lot of people moving in the same direction, not just the police. I don't think this issue should just be a simple compliance with instructions vs not. (you'll note my opinion above on the Tulsa shooting) On the other hand, I do think understanding that statistic could help shed light on the issues we are dealing with.

What scares me at this point is what the future holds for this issue. I wave a magic wand today and the statistics from TOMORROW forward are identical for all races/genders/nationalities. . . would it matter? Unless my magic had the power to end all police related homicides, there is going to be another non white person who will die from the gun of a policeman. Whenever/Wherever that happens, the news cycle and protests will start up anew.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This site did a pretty good job of correlating the three different videos of the Charlotte to pinpoint the gun in each video that was found by police.

How To See The Gun In Keith Scott Shooting Videos - Blue Lives Matter

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Do we have those statistics Quik? I've looked for them and can't find anything on the "specific" point brought up in the post you replied to. I don't know how we could even get the statistic, which is a shame, because I think it does have a great deal of relevance to the discussion.

The statistic in question is NOT just a simple arrest, number pulled over by police or raw % of people shot by police compared to the general population.

The statistic I'd love to know is what is the difference between complying with the police and not complying with the police instructions. If 100 white guys don't comply with orders, how many are shot compared to the same 100 of other races. Beyond that, what is the percentage of whites who comply with orders vs other races.

I'm of the opinion that "fixing" this is going to involve a lot of people moving in the same direction, not just the police. I don't think this issue should just be a simple compliance with instructions vs not. (you'll note my opinion above on the Tulsa shooting) On the other hand, I do think understanding that statistic could help shed light on the issues we are dealing with.

What scares me at this point is what the future holds for this issue. I wave a magic wand today and the statistics from TOMORROW forward are identical for all races/genders/nationalities. . . would it matter? Unless my magic had the power to end all police related homicides, there is going to be another non white person who will die from the gun of a policeman. Whenever/Wherever that happens, the news cycle and protests will start up anew.

I was looking for an answer to this myself this morning, and looked at three reports (two on sites I respect, one I'd not heard of before) each with different opinions. Two were published in 2014, but overall based on this snap-check the balance is that yes, it likely is a fact.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

Grossly misleading claims about black teens being "vastly more likely to be killed by police than whites even after adjusting for crime rates" - Crime Prevention Research CenterCrime Prevention Research Center

study-supports-suspicion-that-police-use-of-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks - The New York Times

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I was looking for an answer to this myself this morning, and looked at three reports (two on sites I respect, one I'd not heard of before) each with different opinions. Two were published in 2014, but overall based on this snap-check the balance is that yes, it likely is a fact.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

Grossly misleading claims about black teens being "vastly more likely to be killed by police than whites even after adjusting for crime rates" - Crime Prevention Research CenterCrime Prevention Research Center

study-supports-suspicion-that-police-use-of-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks - The New York Times

I've read all of those studies before, but the question I have really concerns the last study.

Force is more likely for blacks. What LED to the force? How many of those incidents of force were created by not following police instructions.

We have 1,000 interactions with the police (forget the rate at how many times they have to deal with the police, that is not my question here. Equate the sample size. 1,000 interactions for whites, 1,000 interactions for blacks) How many times does each side comply with instructions. In the cases where they don't, what is the rate of force used? Gunshots, tasers, etc.

Please note to everyone who is going to think I'm racist for asking this: I think there is a very different way all of us look at police officers and it impacts our interactions with them. This is ONE SINGLE part of this overall debate, but it could help us understand why things are the way they are a little bit better.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I've read all of those studies before, but the question I have really concerns the last study.

Force is more likely for blacks. What LED to the force? How many of those incidents of force were created by not following police instructions.

We have 1,000 interactions with the police (forget the rate at how many times they have to deal with the police, that is not my question here. Equate the sample size. 1,000 interactions for whites, 1,000 interactions for blacks) How many times does each side comply with instructions. In the cases where they don't, what is the rate of force used? Gunshots, tasers, etc.

Please note to everyone who is going to think I'm racist for asking this: I think there is a very different way all of us look at police officers and it impacts our interactions with them. This is ONE SINGLE part of this overall debate, but it could help us understand why things are the way they are a little bit better.

I don't see your question as a single variable in a specific event (police interaction). For example, I think asking why African American kids are suspended and put into special ed more often is also very much related to your question. I think in both cases it highlights professionals who can't do the job they signed up for.

I also believe the unconscious brain has a lot to do with the stat you are seeking. In gladwell's blink, he goes into the decision making process during high stress police situations. One of the factors is mind blindness, during a perceived threat the heart rate will get so high, the ability to rationalize is nearly impossible. So, in the stat you are looking for, how could we compare black/white situations where in one case the police is calmer, rational and possibly less traumatized?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. The protesters must be pleased about the type of person they went to the streets to protest for. Threatened to kill his wife and child. Unbelievable.

Keith Scott WAS carrying stolen gun – and his wife filed for a restraining order | Daily Mail Online

[NobodyHere]

So the wife lied in the video then about him not having a gun

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wow. The protesters must be pleased about the type of person they went to the streets to protest for. Threatened to kill his wife and child. Unbelievable.

Keith Scott WAS carrying stolen gun – and his wife filed for a restraining order | Daily Mail Online

smh

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So the wife lied in the video then about him not having a gun

Yeah, given the police docs from the abuse, she'd have to work pretty hard to forget that part. At some level, you can't totally hold it against her. Many who are abused still defend their abuser despite knowing that it's a bad situation.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Baltimore police officers that were indicted were FAR more guilty than this lady.

Originally Posted by muns

Changed that for you.

Can it be both? No way the last officer or two should have been charged with manslaughter, but there was at least some negligence there, and the intransigence from the BPD and Mayor's office would make me question anything even the coroner put out about what happened inside the van. Long article on the Mosby's from today (didn't realize she was a METCO girl... small world.)

Log In - The New York Times

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wow. The protesters must be pleased about the type of person they went to the streets to protest for. Threatened to kill his wife and child. Unbelievable.

Keith Scott WAS carrying stolen gun – and his wife filed for a restraining order | Daily Mail Online

CNN and MSNBC must have missed this new development!

[RainMaker]

BLM sure picks the most honorable members of the community to martyr. I guess a wife beating, child beating, man with a stolen firearm is better than the child rapist they were worshiping a few months ago.

[molson]

To be fair, a woman willing to lie about him holding "just a book" in order to incite violence might also lie about him beating his kids. Couples like this show up in the criminal justice system a lot. It's difficult to sort out the lies from the crimes and figure out who the victim is, if anyone.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

BLM sure picks the most honorable members of the community to martyr. I guess a wife beating, child beating, man with a stolen firearm is better than the child rapist they were worshiping a few months ago.

Agree that the attempts to make some of these victims saints are laughable, but I don't care how much bad stuff surfaces later - if there's a chance to de-escalate the situation or use nonlethal force, do it.

Along those lines the San Diego/El Cajon shooting looks bad too. I don't care if the guy should have been deported multiple times, once there are multiple officers on scene and one has a taser out use the taser, not a real gun. (And I'm willing to stand corrected, but I've never seen a vape pen I would confuse with a gun in broad daylight.)

[cuervo72]

It's not impossible.

After long standoff, police arrest suicidal man at Civic Center - SFGate

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

It's not impossible.

After long standoff, police arrest suicidal man at Civic Center - SFGate

Of course not. And it happens many more times than we'll ever hear about because there's no agenda there and the media doesn't get as many eyeballs. Which makes it so hard that you see a video like this one where the officer & suspect are at odds, a 2nd officer shows up and pulls a taser out, and that's when the first officer uses his gun. (And it's unbelievable the city thinks releasing this video will calm the community down. Vape pens don't look like guns.)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting comparison scenario to the Keith Scott shooting. This is what happens when you are dealing with a suspect with previous violent charges who has a gun at his side and you don't neutralize the threat. Two cops end up shot because they gave this guy too long to put his gun down.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting comparison scenario to the Keith Scott shooting. This is what happens when you are dealing with a suspect with previous violent charges who has a gun at his side and you don't neutralize the threat. Two cops end up shot because they gave this guy too long to put his gun down.

Example of why someone "only" holding a gun at their side and refusing to follow commands is still a deadly threat.

[cuervo72]

Sacramento police tried to run over man before shooting him, recordings reveal | The Sacramento Bee

[Dutch]

Black Lives Matter
https://www.facebook.com/eric.lee.54...10499674793881

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Black Lives Matter
https://www.facebook.com/eric.lee.54...10499674793881

The link is broken, what was on it?

[Dutch]

It purports that 5 whites were killed by cops the same day as one of the black guys and nobody mentioned it on the MSM.

[jeff061]

So are you saying the whites should be reported as much as the blacks? Or both should be ignored?

[cuervo72]

If there are other such cases by all means link them, they should be scrutinized just as much.

[Drake]

"Cops also shot 5 white guys" is not a winning argument if we're supposed to be taking sides between whether Black or Blue lives matter.

It just points out the irony of having a motto like "serve and protect"...or begs the question of who, exactly, is being served and protected. (I will not that this sort of argument, at least on my Facebook feed, seems to also come from the same people who point out that you need more and bigger guns to protect your home and family because the average response time for police is like 11 minutes. Also not a great argument for Blue Lives Mattering if I've got to do all of my own serving and protecting.)