Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Fair enough on the disagreement, but UCLA has always played a tough OOC schedule. I'm not delusional to think that teams play UCLA because its UCLA but because of where they play. There are three teams who have never played a Div-1AA team and I will let you guess which conference claims all three teams.

I don't think Notre Dame has joined a conference yet.

Michigan I care about, but MSU and Purdue are the kind of rivalries old midwesterners care about. Dropping ND would hurt them and their fanbases more than us, in what, the hope that it would be the final straw pushing ND into the league and helping the other 13 teams out? And considering how far schedules are already set up, it would be a dozen years down the road. But I guess if teams are ducking us it would mean we're good again, so I'd take it. I think it's 50% that ND does join the Big 10, but it will be when/because other dominoes are falling, rather than some scheduling hijinks on B10 teams' part (and I feel like if the Big 10 made it clear they were colluding against ND to force them into the conference it could backfire due to the amount of pride (sections of) ND have.)

[Swaggs]

I don't see how Notre Dame would suffer all that much. Plus, I'm guessing that if the more prestigious Midwestern/Big Ten schools wouldn't play them, schools like Northwestern, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa State, etc. still would. Plus, they still have rivalries (or semi-rivalries) with USC, Stanford, Pitt, BC, Navy and it could open up more interesting national games against Texas or Florida schools.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I don't think Notre Dame has joined a conference yet.

Michigan I care about, but MSU and Purdue are the kind of rivalries old midwesterners care about. Dropping ND would hurt them and their fanbases more than us, in what, the hope that it would be the final straw pushing ND into the league and helping the other 13 teams out? And considering how far schedules are already set up, it would be a dozen years down the road. But I guess if teams are ducking us it would mean we're good again, so I'd take it. I think it's 50% that ND does join the Big 10, but it will be when/because other dominoes are falling, rather than some scheduling hijinks on B10 teams' part (and I feel like if the Big 10 made it clear they were colluding against ND to force them into the conference it could backfire due to the amount of pride (sections of) ND have.)

Sorry, meant to exclude Notre Dame from that convo. Washington is set to play a 1AA team in the coming schedules

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Washington is set to play a 1AA team in the coming schedules

Yeah, and many of us fans aren't happy about it. Oh well...

[MrBug708]

I do believe Sark needs as many wins as possible to keep up momentum, though Im sure one of the directional Washington schools or Montana would have sufficed as well

[MacroGuru]

Rumor mill is flying around right now that BYU goes independent in football and all other sports play in the WAC...This one has legs and has caught on...

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Rumor mill is flying around right now that BYU goes independent in football and all other sports play in the WAC...This one has legs and has caught on...

In what way is this a good idea for BYU?

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

In what way is this a good idea for BYU?

It's not...not one bit in my eyes...


The gist as I see it is a couple of ways.

1) Force renegotiation of the tv contract for mwc

2) be ready to join a conference immediately

3) Some fans have delusions of grandeur we are as powerful as ND in our audience and I have to laugh at them and remind them we are not...


I hope to hell this doesn't happen...honestly, it would kill the program.

[MacroGuru]

Dola...see what I mean...

Sources: BYU considering move to become a WAC-affiliated football independent - ESPN

[Swaggs]

It looks like their move hinges on the willingness of the BCS to give them automatic access to a BCS game (a la Notre Dame) in years that they qualify. I cannot see that happening.

[Ksyrup]

I would give them automatic access, but make it top 4 or something that would make sense for them to be included regardless of where they play.

[MacroGuru]

This is not going to be a good day for me...I just woke up...logged onto twitter and tons of BYU independent stuff..the biggest one so far, was CSU acknowledging BYU was going and there was going to be a presser on Thurs w/ ESPN.

I do see the BCS granting the bid to BYU like Notre Dame but I don't see them doing it with the top 8, maybe top 5...

They could definitely achieve it with a potential 2011 schedule of Notre Dame, Navy, Army, Utah in addition to already scheduled games vs. Texas, Oregon State, Utah State.

I think I am in the twilight zone...

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

This is not going to be a good day for me...I just woke up...logged onto twitter and tons of BYU independent stuff..the biggest one so far, was CSU acknowledging BYU was going and there was going to be a presser on Thurs w/ ESPN.

I do see the BCS granting the bid to BYU like Notre Dame but I don't see them doing it with the top 8, maybe top 5...

They could definitely achieve it with a potential 2011 schedule of Notre Dame, Navy, Army, Utah in addition to already scheduled games vs. Texas, Oregon State, Utah State.

I think I am in the twilight zone...

I doubt they would be able to make the move in one season, but if they could, I would find it hard to believe that Notre Dame, Navy, and Army don't already have their schedules for '11 finalized.

I think part of the problem BYU would face is getting home games. Their location is not in a good recruiting territory and they are traditionally a very competitive team, so it might be difficult to get H/H series with attractive teams.

[Ksyrup]

Hey, they can always point to the fact that a pretty mediocre FSU team went in there and laid a beat down on them.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Hey, they can always point to the fact that a pretty mediocre FSU team went in there and laid a beat down on them.

Ugggh.................

I would talk smack about how we win at your place this year, but thats not happening with a new qb, new rb and new front 7 on defense.....I just hope we keep it within 14 this year.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I doubt they would be able to make the move in one season, but if they could, I would find it hard to believe that Notre Dame, Navy, and Army don't already have their schedules for '11 finalized.

I think part of the problem BYU would face is getting home games. Their location is not in a good recruiting territory and they are traditionally a very competitive team, so it might be difficult to get H/H series with attractive teams.

Trust me, if they make the move it's because they have everything already lined up...and teams are still willing to play them...and getting the TV deal with ESPN will help solidify that.

As far as recruiting goes, Bronco is doing phenomenal and getting the talent that is needed and the more important factor WANTS to be at BYU, LDS or not.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Ugggh.................

I would talk smack about how we win at your place this year, but thats not happening with a new qb, new rb and new front 7 on defense.....I just hope we keep it within 14 this year.

I have no clue what to expect with FSU this year. If the defense is even 50% better, we could easily be a 10 win team. But we have very few proven WRs, the D could still suck while transitioning, and who knows how long it will take to shake the Bowden era off. Might take a team of 2-3 Jimbo recruiting classes. All I know is - this is a game they must win, since they've got Oklahoma the week before (on the road) and Miami and Boston College back-to-back in October. They could be headed for an ugly season if they lose 3 or 4 of those games.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I have no clue what to expect with FSU this year. If the defense is even 50% better, we could easily be a 10 win team. But we have very few proven WRs, the D could still suck while transitioning, and who knows how long it will take to shake the Bowden era off. Might take a team of 2-3 Jimbo recruiting classes. All I know is - this is a game they must win, since they've got Oklahoma the week before (on the road) and Miami and Boston College back-to-back in October. They could be headed for an ugly season if they lose 3 or 4 of those games.

Sounds like our season....

We play FSU, TCU and Utah on the road...I honestly see us 8-4, however miracles can happen and we can go 10-2 at the most...

[Ksyrup]

Aside from Samford - which I believe was scheduled only because it was Bowden's alma mater - we have UF, BYU, and Oklahoma as our OOC teams. Holy crap.

[molson]

It looks like Boise St. fans want the Broncos to stay in the WAC if BYU leaves the Mountain West.

Feels like a leverage play for BYU. But I don't know what they would want.

[Young Drachma]

The Mountain West is so screwed. I don't know what they're doing wrong, but they're just losing steam by the day. Time to invite Gonzaga for basketball only or something. They need juice and they need it quick, because whatever they're doing now isn't working. Maybe get their network on more channels? Be more aggressive at expansion? I dunno, but this isn't good for them at all. I actually like it for BYU.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

The Mountain West is so screwed. I don't know what they're doing wrong, but they're just losing steam by the day. Time to invite Gonzaga for basketball only or something. They need juice and they need it quick, because whatever they're doing now isn't working. Maybe get their network on more channels? Be more aggressive at expansion? I dunno, but this isn't good for them at all. I actually like it for BYU.

Just read an article from Katz...his sources are saying because of the WAC taking our other sports we would agree to play 4 to 6 WAC teams a season, that sure as hell doesn't sound like independence to me and a major step down...

[MacroGuru]

FFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars...rence.html.csp

[dawgfan]

Wow. Well, sounds like the WAC is giving BYU enough games per year that they should be able to fill out their football schedule, and they appear to have the broadcast equipment in place. I would guess that they should be able to top the $2M per year that they were getting from the MWC.

But they're going to find themselves even more locked out of the BCS than they were before IMO. And without the marquee rivalries that Notre Dame has, I doubt they're going to impress many people with their scheduling.

Sucks for the MWC too - losing Utah, BYU and probably losing Boise back to the WAC. Just think, a couple months ago people were looking at the MWC as the next BCS conference - gaining Boise, possibly gaining programs like Kansas, Kansas State, Mizzou and Iowa State - and now they may be on the verge of implosion. San Diego State may use this as an excuse to return to the WAC and join their State school brethren.

[k0ruptr]

was just headed here to post this. BYU to go independent in football and every other sport to the WAC. Crazy. Mountain West not looking so hot.

[molson]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

FFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars...rence.html.csp

Well, if there's one thing the conference realignment saga of 2010 has taught me, it's that "done deal" means "not at all a done deal".

[SnDvls]

not bashing BYU, but this tweet by Dennis Dodd was pretty funny.

"Only sure BCS berth for BYU now is to finish in top two. In other words, Louisiana-Monroe has an easier path..."

[Swaggs]

Word is that Air Force will likely go independent if BYU does.

[MacroGuru]

Damn Render...He is going to make me go across the street to hang myself...

Honestly, I can't stand this...I think it is a dumb move and only alienates the school that much more...

We almost sound like big gigantic fucking cry babies....Utah got to the PAC 10 and we weren't looked at so we are going to sulk, and you can't play with our toys.

It's going to implode a conference that was doing quite well, and it's going to hurt a lot of teams and stir up some serious hate for us....You think it's bad for our guys when they go places because of the religious affiliation of the school, just wait till this is official...These boys will not know where the hell they are or what the hell they have gotten themselves into.

[SnDvls]

I think $ wise BYU is in a better spot. Getting a BCS bid in a worse spot. $ was the deciding factor in this I believe.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Odd question perhaps but ... does BYU-TV have commercials? I mean, the paid sponsor kind, not the advertising-the-church kind or the move-money-from-one -pocket-to-the-other kind. I always kind of figured it operated as a non-profit, basically commercial free but I could be wrong about that.

I ask because there's talk about a football deal with ESPN (which makes sense) but also references to BYU-TV, which I'm assuming must be for all other sports but I'm failing to see how that's anything other than a rather expensive vanity proposition if there are no sponsors.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I think $ wise BYU is in a better spot. Getting a BCS bid in a worse spot. $ was the deciding factor in this I believe.

Here is the kicker....they have really never had to worry about the money...65K sellout constantly at home. The donors are through the roof as far as giving money to the athletics dept.

I am just trying to figure this out....We will get more money in a T.V. deal, but what Bowl will take us as an independent? The Poinsettia? Oh wow..we get to keep the $ from a mediocre bowl payout...This is honestly BCS suicide to me....

If you guys haven't noticed...Im not happy with this..

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Odd question perhaps but ... does BYU-TV have commercials? I mean, the paid sponsor kind, not the advertising-the-church kind or the move-money-from-one -pocket-to-the-other kind. I always kind of figured it operated as a non-profit, basically commercial free but I could be wrong about that.

I ask because there's talk about a football deal with ESPN (which makes sense) but also references to BYU-TV, which I'm assuming must be for all other sports but I'm failing to see how that's anything other than a rather expensive vanity proposition if there are no sponsors.

I think for the sports games there are. If I remember correctly I have seen them...BYU does have a state of the art broadcasting center with their own HD truck. So I think they sell local advertising for games they broadcast on it.

[k0ruptr]

At least Hawaii and BYU can renew the old rivalry once every couple years in Football now. Even though they are going independent, it sounds like they are still gonna be playing 4 or more WAC schools a season.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Odd question perhaps but ... does BYU-TV have commercials? I mean, the paid sponsor kind, not the advertising-the-church kind or the move-money-from-one -pocket-to-the-other kind. I always kind of figured it operated as a non-profit, basically commercial free but I could be wrong about that.

I ask because there's talk about a football deal with ESPN (which makes sense) but also references to BYU-TV, which I'm assuming must be for all other sports but I'm failing to see how that's anything other than a rather expensive vanity proposition if there are no sponsors.

not sure on the commercials, but I read a good point on their proposed tv hope. If BYU schedules say a "name" program (Notre Dame, USC, Ohio State) that game will more than likely get picked up by ESPN anyhow the games that will be on BYU-TV will still be games no one wants to see (BYU vs XYZ University) so it's more about not having to share any revenue with others and all bowl game $.

[molson]

I hope it works out for them (if it happened), just because more independent programs makes a more interesting college football landscape, IMO.

As for bowls - I don't think their BCS chances would drop too much. On the downside, the path to an automatic bid gets that much tougher, but on the plus side, there's much less chance of an automatic bid coming out of the MWC without them there, and they have a much better chance at an at-large if they have more control over their own schedule. Otherwise, they'll probably end up associated with the WAC's bowl tie-ins, which aren't going to be much worse than the MWC's, especially after BYU left. And they certainly negotiate their own deals with bowls - there might be a season or two where options were less than ideal, but I'm sure that would be remedied.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

but what Bowl will take us as an independent? The Poinsettia?

Actually according to this bowl wiki the Pointy Bowl just wrapped up a new contract that connects it to the Emerald Bowl with teams coming from the MWC and a pool of WAC/Army/Navy similar to the way the Emerald (now Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl) gets Pac10 plus a pool of WAC/Army/ Navy.

Point being, that at least in the short term, even those might not be an option. The only available slot for an indy BYU to go bowling at the moment would seem to be in the event that some conference can't fill all its contractual ties.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Here is the kicker....they have really never had to worry about the money...65K sellout constantly at home. The donors are through the roof as far as giving money to the athletics dept.

I am just trying to figure this out....We will get more money in a T.V. deal, but what Bowl will take us as an independent? The Poinsettia? Oh wow..we get to keep the $ from a mediocre bowl payout...This is honestly BCS suicide to me....

If you guys haven't noticed...Im not happy with this..

BYU saw that Utah would get 10 times in TV revenue in the new Pac-12 and they couldn't stand that is what I'm getting out of all the reports.

I also don't know how playing 4-5 WAC teams a season will help in a quest for a BCS spot either.

I agree they should have stayed in the MWC

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

At least Hawaii and BYU can renew the old rivalry once every couple years in Football now. Even though they are going independent, it sounds like they are still gonna be playing 4 or more WAC schools a season.

I like the Rivalry...BYU HATES playing in Hawaii, it's one of the most hostile environments they have ever been in besides the Holy War...I don't know if Bronco keeps it going..

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

BYU saw that Utah would get 10 times in TV revenue in the new Pac-12 and they couldn't stand that is what I'm getting out of all the reports.

As I said, this comes off as a massive temper tantrum to me..

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

I think for the sports games there are. If I remember correctly I have seen them...BYU does have a state of the art broadcasting center with their own HD truck. So I think they sell local advertising for games they broadcast on it.

Hmm ... interesting. I guess I just mentally assumed they operated the TV as a non-profit ( and the website seems to suggest that since they solicit tax deductible donations to underwrite their efforts, including BYU-TV).

If that does turn out to be the case, I'm just not sure I see how the math adds up for them unless the ESPN deal is already done. 100% of $0 TV Revenue vs a cut of the conference TV seems hard to offset by 100% of hypothetical bowl revenue.

Found an article which discusses it, even gets into the possibility to split the signal in order to launch a commercial side of the TV operation & how it could be bigger than the rumored Univ of Texas network in delivery for years, etc. What it fails to consider is whether any satellite or cable provider would allow the sports programming to be shown in their religious tier if it was a for-profit operation.

It's not entirely unworkable but I suspect they're going to run into major headaches with all the new negotiations of carriage + the changes to their non-profit status for TV & could very well end up regretting this at least for a number of years into the future.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hmm ... interesting. I guess I just mentally assumed they operated the TV as a non-profit ( and the website seems to suggest that since they solicit tax deductible donations to underwrite their efforts, including BYU-TV).

If that does turn out to be the case, I'm just not sure I see how the math adds up for them unless the ESPN deal is already done. 100% of $0 TV Revenue vs a cut of the conference TV seems hard to offset by 100% of hypothetical bowl revenue.

Found an article which discusses it, even gets into the possibility to split the signal in order to launch a commercial side of the TV operation & how it could be bigger than the rumored Univ of Texas network in delivery for years, etc. What it fails to consider is whether any satellite or cable provider would allow the sports programming to be shown in their religious tier if it was a for-profit operation.

It's not entirely unworkable but I suspect they're going to run into major headaches with all the new negotiations of carriage + the changes to their non-profit status for TV & could very well end up regretting this at least for a number of years into the future.

Have any more lemon you want to squeeze into my gaping wound?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Have any more lemon you want to squeeze into my gaping wound?

Sorry 'bout that Chief

For most of the rest of us it's mostly hypothetical discussion fodder, not so easy for you I'm sure.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry 'bout that Chief

For most of the rest of us it's mostly hypothetical discussion fodder, not so easy for you I'm sure.

I'm joking...Honestly I am intrigued on BYU's reasoning behind this. Greg Wrubell who is KSL's BYU sports reporter, just basically received a no comment response from the school..

On top of that, The MWC just tweeted they invited FSU and Nevada officially...

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

I'm joking...Honestly I am intrigued on BYU's reasoning behind this. Greg Wrubell who is KSL's BYU sports reporter, just basically received a no comment response from the school..

On top of that, The MWC just tweeted they invited FSU and Nevada officially...

who's going to pony up that $5 mill per for them to leave though?

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

who's going to pony up that $5 mill per for them to leave though?

They won't take it if BYU is gone...why? TCU and BSU? They get the rest of the same type of teams in their conference right now..not worth the 5..

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

On top of that, The MWC just tweeted they invited FSU and Nevada officially...

I can see Nevada considering it but I think Florida State is overreaching.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I can see Nevada considering it but I think Florida State is overreaching.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I typed it...

Right now here are the new rumors coming out..

1) Fresno State and Nevada have supposedly accepted their invites

2) BYU is supposedly getting $4 million for 4 games a year from ESPN plus keeping redistribution rights.

I see this right now as the WAC vs MWC going toe to toe and see who comes out on top...IF Fresno and Nevada jump, the WAC affiliation for BYU just went to hell in a handbasket..

I like the money that they are supposedly going to get, but does BYU stay with the MWC if Fresno and Nevada come on board...It will force I think, a renegotiation of their current TV contract.


Oh, and the architect for the WAC buyout clause....BYU..

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5474774

[Swaggs]

A Reno newspaper apparently said that Nevada did not sign the $5M buyout clause.

Could be interesting -- BYU may have (purposely or inadvertantly?) just orchestrated the destruction of the WAC.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

A Reno newspaper apparently said that Nevada did not sign the $5M buyout clause.

Could be interesting -- BYU may have (purposely or inadvertantly?) just orchestrated the destruction of the WAC.

This is turned into a wild 2 days...I guess I now know what the BigXII and PAC-Whatever fans felt like this summer...

Funny thing is...another rumor...SDSU and UNLV are ready to go to the WAC if BYU leaves..