Werewolf LVI - Upstairs, Downstairs - GAME OVER, Guests WIN!

[Alan T]

Well, the thing that is curious about it is Render somehow knew that someone else saw him while he was running away according to his story. I don't know about anyone else, but I got absolutely no mention in my PM that Lathum noticed me last night (or anyone noticed me out for that matter). My PM didn't even mention anyone else...

So it was quite prophetic in my mind that Render knew someone would come to his rescue.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

looks like he either just outted a teammate with the ploy instead of just taking one for the team or just threw him under the bus not sure which right now.

Ok, now we can't have it both ways guys. Last game you all thought I was some sort of ballsy super player for killing BK and admitting it, you all thought, as a wolf. So now yer saying I'm a moron and would out my teamate?

Its no win around here with you people.

If you force me to reveal my role tonight I will to avoid lynching, but lynching me anyway still won't PROVE anything as roles are NOT REVEALED when lynched.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Either way the only thing I am selling is Guests must stick together to lynch non-guests. We should ignore who may or may not be the sympathizer and try to work on removing the other teams. That is the only way we will win. Could that mean I am one of the sympathizers? Sure, believe that if you want.. but I am not one. If we as the guests start to get off focus and try to hunt down other guests hoping to hit the sympathizer, we are just asking for trouble. We don't get reveals on lynches, so we can't waste valuable lynches on those type of hunches.

I do agree with this.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, the thing that is curious about it is Render somehow knew that someone else saw him while he was running away according to his story. I don't know about anyone else, but I got absolutely no mention in my PM that Lathum noticed me last night (or anyone noticed me out for that matter). My PM didn't even mention anyone else...

So it was quite prophetic in my mind that Render knew someone would come to his rescue.

mmmm...nice point Mr. AlanT...nice point!



byebye RendeR-wolf

and methinx ntn-wolf as well

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, the thing that is curious about it is Render somehow knew that someone else saw him while he was running away according to his story. I don't know about anyone else, but I got absolutely no mention in my PM that Lathum noticed me last night (or anyone noticed me out for that matter). My PM didn't even mention anyone else...

So it was quite prophetic in my mind that Render knew someone would come to his rescue.

mine doesn't say anyone saw me either or that I even sensed I was being watched. so I have to believe he was working hard to get out of it...I won't be suprised if it's pretty quite for the rest of the day due to the info that is out there.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok, now we can't have it both ways guys. Last game you all thought I was some sort of ballsy super player for killing BK and admitting it, you all thought, as a wolf. So now yer saying I'm a moron and would out my teamate?

Its no win around here with you people.

If you force me to reveal my role tonight I will to avoid lynching, but lynching me anyway still won't PROVE anything as roles are NOT REVEALED when lynched.

I didn't play last game so that doesn't play into my thinking at all...as a matter of fact I didn't even read the last game.

[SnDvls]

dola - so it had no bearing on my original comment either

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, the thing that is curious about it is Render somehow knew that someone else saw him while he was running away according to his story. I don't know about anyone else, but I got absolutely no mention in my PM that Lathum noticed me last night (or anyone noticed me out for that matter). My PM didn't even mention anyone else...

So it was quite prophetic in my mind that Render knew someone would come to his rescue.

I didn't know they would help me at all Alan, thats the problem I had. if NTN had decided to let me hang he could ave just kept his mouth shut.

My PM said I saw SNDvls and turned and ran paniced down the hallway nearly bumping into another player as I fled.

that's paraphrased a bit as I recall rules about quoting PM's

So I knew someone was there because I almost hit them in my haste to flee.Hence my earlier comment about "running away like a scared little girl"

[path12]

Originally Posted by RendeR

There we go. I'm just glad you were willing to come out with this NTN, if the person who saw me had been on one of the two teams I was worried they'd let me hang.

So whats up now SNdvls? Are you one of the supporters hoping to get attention by going after me? Or have you fake revealed hoping to stay hidden?

I don't see where you're cleared by that. Besides, barring the one fake reveal that Brad says he knows about the only role you could have would be the lush, and I can't figure out why you'd be "running" if you were hammered.......

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

just caught up. too bad about Eaglesfan and Barkeep. I won't say too bad about Telle though.

Last night I was out searching as well. I did see Render. He was running. I don't know why. I did not notice him carrying anything but I was told in my PM that it was only a quick glimpse. Sorry it isn't more revealing one way or the other.

Originally Posted by RendeR

I didn't know they would help me at all Alan, thats the problem I had. if NTN had decided to let me hang he could ave just kept his mouth shut.

My PM said I saw SNDvls and turned and ran paniced down the hallway nearly bumping into another player as I fled.

that's paraphrased a bit as I recall rules about quoting PM's

So I knew someone was there because I almost hit them in my haste to flee.Hence my earlier comment about "running away like a scared little girl"

so now there is a 3rd person who saw you out there?

NTN clearly said he only saw a glimpse of you...who's lying him or you?

[DaddyTorgo]

uhhh...what's the deal with PB not revealing his info? that's hella unkewl

[DaddyTorgo]

ZING ZING ZING

METHINX SNDVLS WINS

RendeR...would you like to come to my chili-con-carnival? Radiohead will be there...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, the thing that is curious about it is Render somehow knew that someone else saw him while he was running away according to his story. I don't know about anyone else, but I got absolutely no mention in my PM that Lathum noticed me last night (or anyone noticed me out for that matter). My PM didn't even mention anyone else...

So it was quite prophetic in my mind that Render knew someone would come to his rescue.

Also, since when does everyone get the same specific info in their PM's? I think you're jumping to a conclusion that has no support in fact here Alan. Just because YOU didn't see anyone doesn't mean others didn't or weren't mentioned. This is a real flimsy argment.

This is frustrating. All I can do is point out the facts that I have in front of me. *I* know SNDVls is lying and based on the informatoin I've been given and someone else has verified, it would seem obvious, but since SNDvls got here first and started talking first it really doesn't matter to any of you that the facts don't support him?

You say SNDvls is a verified guest, how? because he "said so"? that doesn't make it so, as a number of people have said there are supporters out there that could well be using the situations to their benefit, and as *I* know there are secret roles that are not listed in the original rule set, so How, if I may be so piqish as to ask, do you have so much faith in SNDvls?

Just askin, cause any other time someone coroborates a PM tid bit the entire place seems to jump ship, but for some reason I'm special.

[DaddyTorgo]

SnDvls is a guest because no one has countered his reveal yet with additional information. While you were seen running from the scene of the crime with a knife. And your "other witness" gave evidence that was not at all conclusive in terms of reasonable doubt, in addition to which, the two of your stories didn't match up.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by path12

I don't see where you're cleared by that. Besides, barring the one fake reveal that Brad says he knows about the only role you could have would be the lush, and I can't figure out why you'd be "running" if you were hammered.......

Read a few more posts path, My role is not listed in the rules. I stated this a page or two back.


SNDvls: How NTN wishes to phrase his PM information isn't up to me, I can only give you what I got.

Seriously people, sheesh. Lets look at it your way, if I am who you think I am (I'm NOT) you lynch me and learn.....nothing? Oh yeah thats right, NO REVEALS on lynch. I'm ovbisouly going to be a target for the two groups tonight anyway because I've admitted having a benefit to the guests.

If I reveal that benefit I LOSE that benefit and become another joe schmuck guest. So what should I do? Hrm?

[ArlingtonColt]

Vote Render

Seems the most wolfish, some excellent info in here... thanks everyone.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

so now there is a 3rd person who saw you out there?

NTN clearly said he only saw a glimpse of you...who's lying him or you?

Acually I can see this being right if his back was to me as I came past him, I would avoid running into an obsticle to my escape and he would only catch a glimpse of me as he turn to see what was happening, that is NOT spelled out in my PM in any way, but I can see that being the case if our PM's read as we've posted them. *shrug*

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

SnDvls is a guest because no one has countered his reveal yet with additional information. While you were seen running from the scene of the crime with a knife. And your "other witness" gave evidence that was not at all conclusive in terms of reasonable doubt, in addition to which, the two of your stories didn't match up.

Actually you have the information wrong. SNDvls never said anything about a knife nor did he say I was running. *I* said I was running FROM someone WITH a knife. My story (singular thank you) matches up pretty much perfectly.

[Neon_Chaos]

off to company picnic.

Unvote DaddyTorgo

Vote Render

[RendeR]

I have no argument for the counter reveal item, but he may well be a guest, that doesn't mean he didn't kill someone, I was a villager and *I* killed someone last game, I don't see how this settles anything?

[PurdueBrad]

I'll put my vote back even though it looks like a runaway.

vote RendeR

DT, I believe the answer to your question is out there and in some of the wording I used.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I'll put my vote back even though it looks like a runaway.

vote RendeR

DT, I believe the answer to your question is out there and in some of the wording I used.

You need to stop tiptoeing around the tulips here. If you are saying that Neon lied and you are the Elderly Gent, then come out and say so instead of being vague about it and leaving open room for all kinds of wiggle room in case Neon gets offed by the other team.

Thats what you are afraid of isnt it? You come out saying that neon lied and you are the elderly gent, then the opposing team from you (downstairs or upstairs, whichever you aren't) night kills Neon and makes you out to be a big fat liar?

I think its a bit convienant the way you are trying to counter his reveal and if you truly are a guest, you aren't helping your side by being so vague about it.

Come right out and say it if that is what you are accusing.

[ntndeacon]

I have no trouble believing Render killed someone. I don't think what I saw should be viewed as much help to Render either. All it really says to me is that Render was up and about last evening. I agree more with SnDvls than Render in thier battle now for what it is worth. And even though it probably is a meaningless vote in most peoples' eyes, I will vote for Render as well.
Vote Render

[ntndeacon]

By the way I did NOT get almost bumped into according to MY PM. So that part is crazy talk to me. someone else made the point I think , but I wanted to confirm that. just saw Render Running.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I have no trouble believing Render killed someone. I don't think what I saw should be viewed as much help to Render either. All it really says to me is that Render was up and about last evening. I agree more with SnDvls than Render in thier battle now for what it is worth. And even though it probably is a meaningless vote in most peoples' eyes, I will vote for Render as well.
Vote Render

Ok lets think about this, you say seeing me running through the halls doesn't prove anything, but I think it seriously suggests sometihng to my benefit.

If in fact I was out and about murdering people, WHY WOULD I RUN? Running through the halls would garner attention, just as it did from NTN, so if I were in fact out killing people I can't see a good reason to be RUNNING.

If I were killing people I'd be trying to be quiet and avoid attention.

Now where have I seen posts like THAT before?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

By the way I did NOT get almost bumped into according to MY PM. So that part is crazy talk to me. someone else made the point I think , but I wanted to confirm that. just saw Render Running.

You can check my post earlier regarding this, like I said then it is not spelled out at all in my PM but I can certainly see a scenario where you only get a glimpse of me and I feel like I nearly run into you. But again thats NOT specified its pure speculation on my part.

[MrBug708]

Vote - RenderR

[st.cronin]

Don't really have time to catch up, getting a vote in:

Vote DaddyTorgo

The Cook is NOT a good guy.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You need to stop tiptoeing around the tulips here. If you are saying that Neon lied and you are the Elderly Gent, then come out and say so instead of being vague about it and leaving open room for all kinds of wiggle room in case Neon gets offed by the other team.

Thats what you are afraid of isnt it? You come out saying that neon lied and you are the elderly gent, then the opposing team from you (downstairs or upstairs, whichever you aren't) night kills Neon and makes you out to be a big fat liar?

I think its a bit convienant the way you are trying to counter his reveal and if you truly are a guest, you aren't helping your side by being so vague about it.

Come right out and say it if that is what you are accusing.

I'm going to choose to believe (for right now anyway) that Brad has his reasons for not revealing and maybe we should leave it at that for now. I think sometimes we tend to pressure folks into reveals we might not want wolves to know.........but he has to be aware then that he is not cleared by any stretch. It cuts both ways.

[st.cronin]

By the way, I'm sorry I've not been more active. I've been absolutely slammed with schoolwork this week. If I'm still around, I'll catch up this weekend and have some things to say.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

I'm going to choose to believe (for right now anyway) that Brad has his reasons for not revealing and maybe we should leave it at that for now. I think sometimes we tend to pressure folks into reveals we might not want wolves to know.........but he has to be aware then that he is not cleared by any stretch. It cuts both ways.

Normally I would agree, but this game is different, everything is pretty wide open..

There are 8 unrevealed players right now. 7 positions unknown for the upstairs/downstairs. The upstairs and downstairs teams know who else is on their team other than their sympathizer. So they are able to use our list just like us. So I find it very likely that they know who is on the other team right now.

Obviously the upstairs team struck first last night offing Telle. Since we (the guests) can't win until day 4, I assume they are going to take some swipes at each other to try to win before day 4 based off of our lists. They possibly will want to avoid the other guests from here on in fear of hitting their own sympathizer and really eliminating us guests don't really help them reach their goals.

So what PurdueBrad is really doing if he really is a guest that is disputing Neon's claim is just keeping neon safe from the opposite team and putting himself at risk. I have a very hard time believing that the downstairs team is going to sit back and let the upstairs pick them off without fighting back. (Especially if Render is downstairs as well, then their backs will be against the wall).

For us right now, I'm more worried that we won't get to day 4 before losing to one of the other teams.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Don't really have time to catch up, getting a vote in:

Vote DaddyTorgo

The Cook is NOT a good guy.

Im actually more inclined to believe this too, that also caught me odd...

unvote - RenderR

vote - DaddyTorgo

[Alan T]

As of post #282, here is the current vote count.

(8) Render - Sndvls (141), Gonzo (148), DaddyTorgo (173), Alan T (174), ArlingtonColt (266), Neon_Chaos (269), PurdueBrad (271),ntndeacon (273)
(3) DaddyTorgo - Lathum (175), St.Cronin (278), Mrbug708 (282)

[DaddyTorgo]

nice...vote for a guest guys. Good play...good play

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

As of post #282, here is the current vote count.

(8) Render - Sndvls (141), Gonzo (148), DaddyTorgo (173), Alan T (174), ArlingtonColt (266), Neon_Chaos (269), PurdueBrad (271),ntndeacon (273)
(3) DaddyTorgo - Lathum (175), St.Cronin (278), Mrbug708 (282)

If my math is correct there are 5 more votes out there still which could still tie it or try and swing it with a jump vote too.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

If my math is correct there are 5 more votes out there still which could still tie it or try and swing it with a jump vote too.

Yes, but I'm not sure if Chief RUm will even show up before the deadline (doesn't he usually work until really late on fridays?) Does he even know the game has started yet?

Either way, this by no means is out of reach. I find it hard to believe that the team opposite of Render (Downstairs or upstairs) wouldn't take advantage of this to get rid of one of their opponents, so am guessing we should be ok on votes.

The only thought I've been pondering is if I or DT or both should use some evidence. I don't mind using mine as it would just validate my story from this morning (Even though I don't know what that proves since it seems likely that evidence is findable by any team). Also Render's team might have some evidence to use as well that could help swing the vote.

I'll likely decide one way or another whether to use my evidence or save it before I have to leave in like an hour or so.

[SnDvls]

just don't die with the evidence...it's like the seer in other games who gets in scans of good guys, but never gets to share that info.

[RendeR]

Not to belabour the point, but keep in mind we get zero info from the lynch, no role reveal at all. I'm puzzled as to how we can use that to help determine a better lynch candidate.

Granted I'm still leading the way but you never get any proof out of my lynch, I'm just gone and you're no wiser.

Now if I get OFFED overnight, then you know for sure. but I'm just saying =)



did I mention that I don't want to get lynched as a villager AGAIN?

[DaddyTorgo]

alan - I already PM-ed Peregrine to use my evidence

[Peregrine]

DaddyTorgo suddenly pulled out a packet of papers during your discussion and threw it down in front of you all. "Evidence! This old will shows that only RendeR would have benefited from the murders!"

RendeR now has two more votes against him.

[Peregrine]

Any of you that received a weapon in last night's searches, could you please PM me with what weapon you found? I forgot to record it!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Umm, Brad...yo...BRAAAaaaad....did you read the rules?

The only teams with seers are the upstairs and downstairs. Of which you are now pretty solidly part of one or the other.

Now, as for SNDevils seing me last night I cry WOLF!

It was ME that saw HIM running around with a bloody KNIFE specifically. I didn't see which room as I apparently ran like a scared litle girl when I saw him dripping his way down the hallway.

SNDVLS is the culprit here!!

Man i hate it when I don't check in immediately in the morning and everyon piles on before I can even respond.

I didn't kill ANYONE. I searched and slept last night and while searching spotted SNDvls roaming the halls with a blood covered knife.

I haven't read the whole thread, I am still catching up but I want to call BS on Render here.

I saw sndvls out last night and there was no indication of a knife or blood or anything

[SnDvls]

and down goes RendeR for the count
...and here comes the pile on

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I haven't read the whole thread, I am still catching up but I want to call BS on Render here.

I saw sndvls out last night and there was no indication of a knife or blood or anything

so you saw sndvls AND alan out last night lathum? You're a pretty observant guy it appears...

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so you saw sndvls AND alan out last night lathum? You're a pretty observant guy it appears...

DT- it's very possible if he did 2 searches last night

just like he could have found one person & a weapon or a special item and a person or 2 special items.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay...i'm out for a while. Probably till at least like...6 or 7pm

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Not to belabour the point, but keep in mind we get zero info from the lynch, no role reveal at all. I'm puzzled as to how we can use that to help determine a better lynch candidate.

Granted I'm still leading the way but you never get any proof out of my lynch, I'm just gone and you're no wiser.

Now if I get OFFED overnight, then you know for sure. but I'm just saying =)



did I mention that I don't want to get lynched as a villager AGAIN?

Yeah, you're right.. since we don't learn anything from the lynches we just shouldn't lynch anyone this game. Sounds like a plan to me!

[DaddyTorgo]

true true sndvls. Didn't even think of that

[Lathum]

Well fuck me guys and thanks for pointing that out to anyone who didn't notice that I now have to sleep both phases tonight.

Thanks.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well fuck me guys and thanks for pointing that out to anyone who didn't notice that I now have to sleep both phases tonight.

Thanks.

it was pretty obvious if you think/thought that the upstairs or downstairs missed it then they deserve to lose this game.