The Official 2019 NBA Off-season Thread

[Mota]

The fascination with Leonard in Toronto was akin to dating a girl that's way above your means. You know that things are awesome, but as soon as you turn around, she'll probably find someone that has more money and is better looking than you. So Toronto never stopped keeping their eyes on Leonard and was obsessed with him.

I'm curious to see how they react to him whenever he comes back to Toronto again during the season. Do they appreciate what he did to help bring a ring to Toronto, or do they hold it against him for leaving?

[stevew]

So in looking for Westbrook destinations I spent a second looking at the Magic. How did that dumpster fire of a roster make the playoffs?

I got Bamba/Fultz/Mosgov and a couple pick swaps going out for Westbrook. The Thunder save about 20 million in multiplied tax. Russ to the Magic. Book it. My sauces are legit!

My sauces

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I'm curious to see how they react to him whenever he comes back to Toronto again during the season. Do they appreciate what he did to help bring a ring to Toronto, or do they hold it against him for leaving?

I bet they don't applaud him on every single AB.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by stevew

So in looking for Westbrook destinations I spent a second looking at the Magic. How did that dumpster fire of a roster make the playoffs?

I got Bamba/Fultz/Mosgov and a couple pick swaps going out for Westbrook. The Thunder save about 20 million in multiplied tax. Russ to the Magic. Book it. My sauces are legit!

My sauces

The Knicks need to go get Russ. Their summer was a disaster, getting him would make it seem much less.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Knicks need to go get Russ. Their summer was a disaster, getting him would make it seem much less.

And, shockingly (to me anyway), he doesn't have a no-trade clause so anything IS conceivable.

[stevew]

I don't think anyone in the NBA has a no trade clause.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by stevew

I don't think anyone in the NBA has a no trade clause.

yeah, that has pretty much been 'phased out' over the last few years as far as marquee players goes. (and they can't be in unless a player has 8 years in the league and 4 with the current team)
There are a few 'mandatory' ones though by league rules: Restricted Free Agents whose team matches an offer sheet, players accepting the qualifying offer after their rookie contract and players resigning with their current team for a 1 year contract (or 1+1 option).


And yes, i did not happen to know that but looked it up as i was curious now


Might well be that Westbrook wants to get a trade anyway, might not be up to a rebuild again.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by whomario

Might well be that Westbrook wants to get a trade anyway, might not be up to a rebuild again.

Oh I'm sure that's what his "agent discussing the future" with OkC means ... but whether a trade to NY would be considered an improvement for him seems questionable.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Knicks need to go get Russ. Their summer was a disaster, getting him would make it seem much less.

He's not another Power Forward though

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Mota

'm curious to see how they react to him whenever he comes back to Toronto again during the season. Do they appreciate what he did to help bring a ring to Toronto, or do they hold it against him for leaving?

He brought them a title, and I get the sense he never promised them anything beyond this year, so I don't think that they will have a strong sense of betrayal or breaking a promise. I think he'll get a hero's welcome when he returns.

[albionmoonlight]

Also, this is a blow to the Lakers, but they still have LeBron. And Davis is that very rare breed in the NBA--an alphadog talent without an alphadog personality. They should still be able to make noise this season, IMO.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

He brought them a title, and I get the sense he never promised them anything beyond this year, so I don't think that they will have a strong sense of betrayal or breaking a promise. I think he'll get a hero's welcome when he returns.

I agree. He never turned heel and wasn't a home grown guy.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I bet they don't applaud him on every single AB.

/Golfclap

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Also, this is a blow to the Lakers, but they still have LeBron. And Davis is that very rare breed in the NBA--an alphadog talent without an alphadog personality. They should still be able to make noise this season, IMO.

I think there is something about Davis that is missing. I know he won a title at Kentucky, but IMO he lacks in something. His teams in NO should have been better. He had talent around him. Can you blame coaching? I suppose, but I need to see more.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think there is something about Davis that is missing. I know he won a title at Kentucky, but IMO he lacks in something. His teams in NO should have been better. He had talent around him. Can you blame coaching? I suppose, but I need to see more.

What Davis was missing was talent to win in the modern game. The Pelicans never really built a team around him capable of winning.

Jrue is a solid player, but probably the 4th option on a championship team. Boogie was an awful fit. After those 2 what other talent was on NO? A washed up Ryan Anderson? Tyreke Evans? Erik Gordon?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

What Davis was missing was talent to win in the modern game. The Pelicans never really built a team around him capable of winning.

Jrue is a solid player, but probably the 4th option on a championship team. Boogie was an awful fit. After those 2 what other talent was on NO? A washed up Ryan Anderson? Tyreke Evans? Erik Gordon?

Randal. Mirotic. I think you undersell Jrue. You can say Boogie was an awful fit but he is talented.

This isn't a situation where he had no one. They had enough talent to be more competitive than they were.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Randal. Mirotic. I think you undersell Jrue. You can say Boogie was an awful fit but he is talented.

This isn't a situation where he had no one. They had enough talent to be more competitive than they were.

Boogie wouldn't be on his 2nd 1 year deal for minimal money if he was an easier fit on a NBA roster.

The Pelicans could bring in some talent (not a lot by any means), but none of it fit and none of it made sense. It was like watching the Cavs try to build a roster around Lebron before he left for the Heat. They were desperate to try to show him they were acquiring talent, but it wasn't the right talent. The difference between the two situations is Lebron was far and away the best player in the world at the time and they played in the East.

[stevew]

Westbrook to the heat would be the most heat thing ever

[Sweed]

As a Laker fan I am only slightly disappointed. Yes, the big three was going to be great but what about the "little 9 or 10" that filled out the roster? I kind of see it as they got lucky but just don't know it yet

It will hurt some this year, because of waiting for Kawhi to decide, but next year they should be in a good position to fill that roster out properly.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Westbrook to the heat would be the most heat thing ever

What better?

Butler and Westbrook on the Heat

or

Some combo of Harden/Paul/Westbrook on the Rockets?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What better?

Butler and Westbrook on the Heat

or

Some combo of Harden/Paul/Westbrook on the Rockets?

Man that's a tough call. I fear for either coach's life.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What better?

Butler and Westbrook on the Heat
or
Some combo of Harden/Paul/Westbrook on the Rockets?

Gotta go with the latter I think.

We are talking comedy value, right?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Gotta go with the latter I think.

We are talking comedy value, right?

Absolutely!I am here for the jokes.

As a fan, I don't want Westbrook anywhere near the Heat as a player.

[stevew]

I forgot the heat traded whiteside. Would have make for epic defensive rebound battles between Russ and him.

[stevew]

DLo to Miami for a couple guys including Winslow would be a good trade in Dec

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Sweed

As a Laker fan I am only slightly disappointed. Yes, the big three was going to be great but what about the "little 9 or 10" that filled out the roster? I kind of see it as they got lucky but just don't know it yet

I agree with you in theory, but my problem with that is that they missed out on the useful rotation guys by waiting and were forced to overpay on guys like Danny Green. Even Javale I think was a significant overpay, when you look at what someone like Looney got. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I would have left the Kawhi dream behind when I landed AD and instead have looked to flesh out rotation pieces to try make up for the sheer volume of rotation guys they lost.

[stevew]

I have no idea what the advanced stats say but Looney totally passes the eye test of a more than adequate big. Can't believe nobody threw a 3 year midlevel at him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hawks: "we need to upgrade our defense"
Hawks: sign Jabari Parker

Insert confused guy meme here

[Groundhog]

No Zion, but Jaxon Hayes is doing his best to make up for it. Has 2 highlights in the first half of his first summer league game that are probably better than most rookies will get all season long.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hawks: "we need to upgrade our defense"
Hawks: sign Jabari Parker

Insert confused guy meme here

Well, actually

Parker was 81st in defensive real +/-. John Collins who started 59 games for the Hawks at PF was 89th.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Well, actually

Parker was 81st in defensive real +/-. John Collins who started 59 games for the Hawks at PF was 89th.

But was 13th in OBPM and had a PER of 21.8. He kinda made up for some things.

Parker, uh, not so much.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

No Zion, but Jaxon Hayes is doing his best to make up for it. Has 2 highlights in the first half of his first summer league game that are probably better than most rookies will get all season long.

Idk if they'll ever fit together in the half court in the playoffs, but Lonzo + those two in the open court should be insanely fun.

Celtics summer league has been fun through two games. No surprise Grant Williams & Carsen Edwards look good, but Tremont Waters & Tacko Fall have exceeded expectations. I'm still driving the Williams bandwagon & think he should've been a lottery pick - he's a couple inches short but he's also insanely strong like all the other "undersized" guys who are thriving in today's NBA, and between his ability to defend 1-5 competently after a switch & ability/willingness to slide into any role on offense he's a rare rookie I think will be a positive player from day 1. Tacko won't ever be even a starter imo, but he showed those flashes in the Duke game where he had to play perimeter D & could move well for his size - if he can be Boban on O & slightly less of a liability on D that's still a nice backup big to have as an option. Waters will probably be a D League all star this year, but if the shooting off the dribble is real there's potential there.

On the downside, TimeLord a.k.a. Robert Williams III hasn't taken the jump I'd hope to see from a 2nd year guy. It'd be nice to see Romeo Langford too, but since the biggest question is how much the thumb injury affected his outside shooting I'm fine letting him come back slowly and not potentially altering his shooting stroke if he's still less than 100%. Also not sure why Yabu is still on the roster - it's generally a bad sign when guys are in their 3rd year in the summer league, a guy in his 4th year who isn't one of the best players out there probably says all you need to know.

[stevew]

I was pretty surprised Tacko didn’t get drafted. Nothing has been suggested that he isn’t a solid worker. I think he’s playable in certain matchups with continued conditioning improvement and coach ups. He’s probably got the most perfect situation in Boston.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

I was pretty surprised Tacko didn’t get drafted. Nothing has been suggested that he isn’t a solid worker. I think he’s playable in certain matchups with continued conditioning improvement and coach ups. He’s probably got the most perfect situation in Boston.

I think there's something to the fact guys that big just can't ever improve their conditioning past a certain point, which is part of why I think bench big (or official starter who still only plays half the game or less) is his NBA ceiling. He's also not a Manute Bol back there - he's listed at 311 pounds!

But yes, I'm also surprised someone else didn't take a flyer on him (or that we didn't take him over Waters at #51), and even after penciling Grant Williams in for 25-30 minutes a night and assuming Hayward/Tatum will spend a lot of time as nominal smallball 4's there should be plenty of PT available for Tacko, Robert Williams & the 25y/o Vincent Poirier if they show they deserve it. Enes Kanter is the only "5" on the roster and he sucks on defense, Daniel Theis is the only other shot blocker & he's a relatively small guy who gets bulldozed by real 5's (and can't stay healthy.)

I also don't think any of those 3 will be the answer as a starter this year, so I could see us pushing some chips in for another older big if the team seems like it could contend, but I hope we give those two young guys a real shot (at least to up their value as trade chips! ). I'd also be opposed to it right now, but I could even see a scenario where the Celtics don't want to commit a full max to Jaylen Brown & move him for like Myles Turner. Steven Adams is another big who will likely be available for relatively little in assets, but unless Hayward is still scuffling idk where we'd get the matching salary.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Steven Adams is another big who will likely be available for relatively little in assets, but unless Hayward is still scuffling idk where we'd get the matching salary.

At the moment that trade (per the espn trade machine) actually fails too, but in the other direction. OKC would have to throw a min sal guy in to get it to work prior to trading Russ anyway.

For Boston, a combination of Smart/Langford/Yabusele/Ojeleye works out to be enough salary-wise.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by stevew

I have no idea what the advanced stats say but Looney totally passes the eye test of a more than adequate big. Can't believe nobody threw a 3 year midlevel at him.

All Warriors fans are wondering the same thing - and are really happy no one did.

[Groundhog]

I was impressed by Grant Williams too. Not sure how his game projects against NBA players, but he can ball. If he can hit the 3pt shot at an average clip I think he'll be a solid rotation guy for his career at worst. I don't think being undersized matters that much any more, as long as you are agile enough to guard a pick and roll.

[stevew]

Marcus Morris considering the Knicks cause 4 PF

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I was impressed by Grant Williams too. Not sure how his game projects against NBA players, but he can ball. If he can hit the 3pt shot at an average clip I think he'll be a solid rotation guy for his career at worst. I don't think being undersized matters that much any more, as long as you are agile enough to guard a pick and roll.

His 3-pt form is Horford-esque (pushes the ball from in front of his body), but he shouldn't be taking them off the dribble & imo he's somewhere in the Draymond/PJ Tucker/Shane Battier range as an overall player. I forget who exactly it was, but I heard some SPARQ-like facility had him in the 97th percentile of current NBA players for strength vs height, and it's very believable. Combine that with him being very smart & a productive winner at HS/College & I'm all in.

Robert Williams III is the antithesis of him. I hope I'm wrong, but despite his obvious physical tools & a decent attitude/work ethic he's just too dumb to understand rotations etc at the level necessary.

Also, I guess we signed Waters to a 2-way deal, so there's no room for Tacko unless/until we cut Yabu. I literally don't understand why we're keeping Yabu's cap hold on the books at this point.

[Atocep]

Westbrook to the Rockets for Paul, 1st rounders in '24 and '26, and pick swaps in '21 and '25 being reported.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Westbrook to the Rockets for Paul, 1st rounders in '24 and '26, and pick swaps in '21 and '25 being reported.

Huh. I was getting all ready to hate the Butler/Westbrook duo on the court, and I thought Minnesota for Andrew Wiggins made the most sense. Gonna be a little interesting that Westbrook was (thought he was) the alpha & Harden the "6th man" last time they were together, while now Harden is the alpha, but it can't have any less chemistry than Chris Paul & Harden did together. Pray for Eric Gordon if he ever tries to drive while Harden & Westbrook are standing with their hands on their hips as their men clog the lane!

[miami_fan]

Per ESPN, The Thunder now have at least two first round picks in the next seven drafts.

The AI for this league is flawed.

[Groundhog]

Really hard to picture Westbrook and Harden working together, especially under D'Antoni.

[SirFozzie]

I'm not saying Oklahoma has too many Picks coming up, but in the future, you'll no longer have to register for Selective Service, but instead you'll have to register for Oklahoma City.

[bhlloy]

Hey, it's only right that as the Nets finally turned their franchise around, another team would make the same mistake. If Harden couldn't co-exist with Paul he's going to lose his god damn mind with some of the stuff that Russ is going to pull.

[rjolley]

I think Paul is going to be on the move before the season starts. If you're rebuilding, why tie yourself to the contract of an aging player who believes he can help a contender and may not be good in the locker room if he's unhappy?

Can't wait until the season starts. There are 7 or 8 teams who have a good shot at the title, a couple of underdogs if things go right, and players who can help contenders that'll be available at the deadline. The player movement has really made the league wide open.

[Atocep]

Grayson Allen still doing Grayson Allen things.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I'm not saying Oklahoma has too many Picks coming up, but in the future, you'll no longer have to register for Selective Service, but instead you'll have to register for Oklahoma City.

Original, stolen, whatever: this is probably going to be the best line I see about the NBA all year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

I think Paul is going to be on the move before the season starts.

Here ya go

Presti already is working with Paul's agents at CAA Sports -- Leon Rose and Steven Heumann -- to redirect the nine-time All-Star to a new team, league sources tell ESPN.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Grayson Allen still doing Grayson Allen things.

Seriously. Even as a fringe/G-League guy he still manages to be the biggest bonehead in the league.