Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER) - Page 6

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:12 PM

From reading over your discussions I am beginning to understand BK's viewpoint. I don't necessarily agre with it, or at least the results it will garner, but I can see where he thinks it will get some sort of results.

My problem is, the Enemy, will see his tactic for what it is, and basically ignore it and let us tear ourselves apart arguing over it.

I think right now we're pointing fingers at fellow Olympians. Perhaps we should take a step back from accusing the standard targets and consider those who aren't in the normal back and forth of day 1 voting.

Neon_Chaos · 10-23-2007, 08:14 PM

Thank you, PurdueBrad.

Just want you to know you're voting for a good guy.

Are you spending 4 points on me? Because I can reveal my role now, if only to convince you to switch.

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:16 PM

Can someone give us an updated vote count (just base votes, I really don't care what people say they're spending points on atm)

Neon_Chaos · 10-23-2007, 08:16 PM

I am all up with Render regarding UTR players. I hate the fact that the UTR guys mostly get a pass on day 1 for contributing nothing, and the guys who bother to create discussion are the ones targetted.

I'm sure that people might busy, but we may as well look towards their direction. Anyone know where path12 has been? Or did he mention something about being unavailable for the day?

st.cronin · 10-23-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I am all up with Render regarding UTR players. I hate the fact that the UTR guys mostly get a pass on day 1 for contributing nothing, and the guys who bother to create discussion are the ones targetted.

I'm sure that people might busy, but we may as well look towards their direction. Anyone know where path12 has been? Or did he mention something about being unavailable for the day?

Day 1 is a little bit early to push on somebody for being UTR. I don't disagree, I just don't see what criteria you can use.

Lathum · 10-23-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm not insinuating, I'm stating that I am going to use 5 APs. And how does this action lead to less pressure on the wolves if I vote for a villager than if I vote with 1 AP?

you don't think 5 votes on someone vs. a single vote makes a difference?

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:23 PM

I can't wait to see what happens when Anxiety comes back. I put my vote on him to make him choose someone else other than himself. It's interesting that there was the pile on.

PurdueBrad · 10-23-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Thank you, PurdueBrad.

Just want you to know you're voting for a good guy.

Are you spending 4 points on me? Because I can reveal my role now, if only to convince you to switch.

No Neon, just one point, which should mean you're safe (which then does beg the question why leave a vote on you). And for the love of God don't reveal, that didn't work out so well that one time!!!

But in all sincerity, I was caught off-guard by both your's and BK's discussion on trying to get a mass reveal. That's all I have to go on which, with the exception of using a twenty-sided die (which I don't own), is the best I can come up with on day one.

Neon_Chaos · 10-23-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Day 1 is a little bit early to push on somebody for being UTR. I don't disagree, I just don't see what criteria you can use.

Well, one criteria would be the motivation to generate activity on Day 1. I would much rather vote for someone who hasn't said anything at all on Day 1, as opposed to people who actually are involved, and throw out whatever possible win/lose scenarios there are and rule clarifications.

Just as much as you can't rely on whatever is discussed on day 1, I sincerely think that it's better than shutting up and going UTR.

Afterall, they haven't contributed anything, so you don't lose anything if they get voted off.

As it is, however, as long as I'm not the one being lynched, I have no qualms about people lynching anyone else.

Just throwing ideas out there.

st.cronin · 10-23-2007, 08:25 PM

My own opinion is that Neon/BK pushing for a mass reveal is not at all out of character for them.

Chief Rum · 10-23-2007, 08:27 PM

I just don't like going full bore with the points when we don't have a clue who is a wolf--unless we're wolves. So anyone looking to drop the max looks very wolfish to me.

A couple have said they would do this, but I will focus on the most vocal for now.

VOTE BARKEEP

PurdueBrad · 10-23-2007, 08:27 PM

The UTR theory is an interesting one but I'll be honest, I'm often that way on day one just because I feel like Stevie Wonder locked in a cargo container in the bottom of a ship going through a hurricane (in other words, without a clue). But it may not be the worst way to take a day one vote either because, as somebody pointed out before, how often have we caught wolves day one (particularly compared to how many freaking times we've caught the seer instead recently!)?

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Day 1 is a little bit early to push on somebody for being UTR. I don't disagree, I just don't see what criteria you can use.

My point isn't the Under the radar players,, its not because they played that way, its more due to the fact that BK, anxiety, hoops, lathum, chuef, you and sometimes I ar the only ones that take a step forward to go after others.

The problem is we attack one another without really thining about other players, like ardent, or Telle or Raiders or ...who was the newbie...Racer. We ignore newbies, why? To be nice?

I just want us to stop immediately going after the front line players when we really have no clue or REAL suspicion of they are the Enemy or not.

Lathum · 10-23-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

The problem is we attack one another without really thining about other players, like ardent, or Telle or Raiders or ...who was the newbie...Racer. We ignore newbies, why? To be nice?

Ardent and RaidersArmy can be pitbulls

st.cronin · 10-23-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

The problem is we attack one another without really thining about other players, like ardent, or Telle or Raiders or ...who was the newbie...Racer. We ignore newbies, why? To be nice?

Yes, actually. I will almost never vote for a new player on day 1. This is a day 1 only rule, though.

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Ardent and RaidersArmy can be pitbulls

I won't argue that, however they're not as regular lately as the rest of us, and the rest of us have been tearing one another apart with no evidence a LOT lately.

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

The problem is we attack one another without really thining about other players, like ardent, or Telle or Raiders or ...who was the newbie...Racer. We ignore newbies, why? To be nice?

Thin me out. I dare you.

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Thin me out. I dare you.

Heh, maybe I will, Give me a reason you're a more trustworthy Olympian than say...Telle. If you can't convince me, I'll vote for you instead.

Chief Rum · 10-23-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yes, actually. I will almost never vote for a new player on day 1. This is a day 1 only rule, though.

Ditto.

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

I won't argue that, however they're not as regular lately as the rest of us, and the rest of us have been tearing one another apart with no evidence a LOT lately.

Part of the reason why I'm not regular (and my wife would contend that description

heh heh) is that I have no access to FOFC at work. It was different when I played games at my last job and I had access to FOFC. At this point I have to balance family, work, FOFC, and watching TV/playing games. In the grand scheme of things, I don't put playing WW first. Sorry about that everyone.

Anyhow, that is the prime reason why I don't play much any more. The worst thing is to get a role that's juicy or a role which requires coordination (such as a wolf) and not be able to commit 100%. To the best of my recollection, I have not and did not ask to have a role as a villager because of this, but by the same token I think you can attribute the amount of effort I put into a game will correspond to my role and potential for being lynched.

You can take this FWIW.

DaddyTorgo · 10-23-2007, 08:46 PM

I really hate day 1 votes, we never seem to learn anything. Especially in complicated games like this with so many roles and actions.

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Heh, maybe I will, Give me a reason you're a more trustworthy Olympian than say...Telle. If you can't convince me, I'll vote for you instead.

Why should I convince you on day 1 when I'm not under the gun? What could I do to convince you other than do a reveal (or a false reveal)?

Absolutely nothing. Therefore I won't waste my time.

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Part of the reason why I'm not regular (and my wife would contend that description

heh heh) is that I have no access to FOFC at work. It was different when I played games at my last job and I had access to FOFC. At this point I have to balance family, work, FOFC, and watching TV/playing games. In the grand scheme of things, I don't put playing WW first. Sorry about that everyone.

Anyhow, that is the prime reason why I don't play much any more. The worst thing is to get a role that's juicy or a role which requires coordination (such as a wolf) and not be able to commit 100%. To the best of my recollection, I have not and did not ask to have a role as a villager because of this, but by the same token I think you can attribute the amount of effort I put into a game will correspond to my role and potential for being lynched.

You can take this FWIW.

And that is completely understandable and commendable to keep the real life working well =) I understand how hard that can be.

I want to reiterate my real point isn't to call out those others, but to cal out the mainstay players for losing sight of everyone else beyond those we"fear and respect" as wolves AND as villagers.

I want us to stop hacking off our own heads because its easier to go after the well known players than it is to dig for more pertinent evidence.

Chief and Cornin: I respect that stance on Day 1, however, can you see my point that in doing so we get into a rut or repeatedly being nice and forgetting about those other players to some extent because we turnd our focus to the maintays instead of looking at all the players?

hoopsguy · 10-23-2007, 08:48 PM

Anyone have a good vote summary at this point? I'm going to have spotty access between now and deadline. First night home from six day trip and want to spend some time with family.

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I really hate day 1 votes, we never seem to learn anything. Especially in complicated games like this with so many roles and actions.

I couldn't agree more DT. It'd be nice to get some secret messages or something to help us along, like some super duper decoder clue or something =)

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 08:50 PM

I'm not surprised I'm getting a lot of D1 attention. Frustrated yes, but not surprised. I am aggressive about doing what I think is best for the village and sometimes others don't see it the same way.

ArlingtonColt · 10-23-2007, 08:51 PM

Vote Barkeep

ArlingtonColt · 10-23-2007, 08:51 PM

I'm going with Lathum's theory here.. and its just a random day 1 vote for me... sorry

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 08:51 PM

Render: We used to regularly vote out those who were silent on D1. It then became less of a problem and we've gone away from that. I'd be happy to join you in going back to that as I think encouraging participation is a great way to spend a d1 vote.

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonColt

Vote Barkeep

Got any new reasons why AC or just following the lead of others?

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonColt

I'm going with Lathum's theory here.. and its just a random day 1 vote for me... sorry

I think it's interesting that people like lathum's theory, borne out by no statistics or experience, while ignoring what I'm saying borne out of experience and statistics.

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

And that is completely understandable and commendable to keep the real life working well =) I understand how hard that can be.

I want to reiterate my real point isn't to call out those others, but to cal out the mainstay players for losing sight of everyone else beyond those we"fear and respect" as wolves AND as villagers.

I want us to stop hacking off our own heads because its easier to go after the well known players than it is to dig for more pertinent evidence.

Understood and I agree with you; however, it is day 1. What evidence can you conjure at this point?

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:54 PM

I also don't say you as in "RendeR" but you as in all of us.

Chief Rum · 10-23-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Chief and Cornin: I respect that stance on Day 1, however, can you see my point that in doing so we get into a rut or repeatedly being nice and forgetting about those other players to some extent because we turnd our focus to the maintays instead of looking at all the players?

I think sometimes we have to recognize our role in encouraging new players to the game. Players who got knocked off on Day One don't tend to come back. So I won't vote for them on Day One unless there is a compelling reason for me to do so.

As cronin said, that rule only holds for Day One, which is almost always a worthless vote anyway. After that, no one gets a pass.

st.cronin · 10-23-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Chief and Cornin: I respect that stance on Day 1, however, can you see my point that in doing so we get into a rut or repeatedly being nice and forgetting about those other players to some extent because we turnd our focus to the maintays instead of looking at all the players?

My usual policy, if I don't find somebody acting "fishy" on day 1, is to vote for somebody who scares me more as a wolf than I would respect as a villager. I won't name names now, but you probably know what I mean.

And then on day 2, I start from scratch - I throw out all the vibes I got on day 1, and look at everything with as fresh a set of eyes as possible.

Of course, every game has its quirks, but that's the general blueprint I take into each game.

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think it's interesting that people like lathum's theory, borne out by no statistics or experience, while ignoring what I'm saying borne out of experience and statistics.

I think that you put yourself out there by saying 5 AP. Either that's a really good wolf play (doubtful), honesty (possible), or stupidity (likely). Not saying putting your AP out there is stupid (I did that), but saying you put 5 AP out there might be.

Abe Sargent · 10-23-2007, 08:56 PM

Well, I have to go shopping, so I need to reveal now. I was hoping peops would hop elsewhere, but since not, here goes:

I am Ares. God of War and Bloodlust.

Chief Rum · 10-23-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm not surprised I'm getting a lot of D1 attention. Frustrated yes, but not surprised. I am aggressive about doing what I think is best for the village and sometimes others don't see it the same way.

I believe caution is more prudent on Day One. A difference in play style perhaps. Rarely is aggressive play needed on Day One, IMO, and with little information, often proves to be rash and certainly is dangerous.

As the game progresses, though, I tend to get a lot more aggressive.

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Render: We used to regularly vote out those who were silent on D1. It then became less of a problem and we've gone away from that. I'd be happy to join you in going back to that as I think encouraging participation is a great way to spend a d1 vote.

There are always reasons for peole to be silent on day 1, but if they're here, in the thread and still not doing much I have to wonder why we would attack the actives instead of the lurkers.

I don't want to punish those that have real life interference, I just want us to stop chasing the other so called "obivous" players blindlylike we have been.

Telle has been pretty regular up until recently and she's bee in and around today.

I'm going to go against polite society.

UNVOTE TELLE
VOTE RACER

Give us a reason NOT to lynch you racer.

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I think that you put yourself out there by saying 5 AP. Either that's a really good wolf play (doubtful), honesty (possible), or stupidity (likely). Not saying putting your AP out there is stupid (I did that), but saying you put 5 AP out there might be.

I'm rather honest in general in these games. In fact my honesty, and assuming the same in others, is what led to my disastrous play against Render a couple games ago.

Raiders Army · 10-23-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Well, I have to go shopping, so I need to reveal now. I was hoping peops would hop elsewhere, but since not, here goes:

I am Ares. God of War and Bloodlust.

Okay. So what can you do? Are you the "bodyguard"?

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 08:58 PM

Has Racer been around? I'll still vote for him though, with the obvious conceit that I will move if necessary.

st.cronin · 10-23-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think it's interesting that people like lathum's theory, borne out by no statistics or experience, while ignoring what I'm saying borne out of experience and statistics.

What Lathum has posted maps nearly completely onto my experience, whereas your theory sets off alarm bells on more than one level.

The real reason my vote is on you is something nobody has mentioned - your "theory" seems designed to potentially out the seer/bodyguard to the wolves.

DaddyTorgo · 10-23-2007, 08:59 PM

abe...what's your powers?

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 08:59 PM

I think it's important we ask ourselves which Gods would be most likely to be sympathetic to the Titans. I have to believe some Olympian is on their side. Not saying Anxiety is, but I think it's something to think about.

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What Lathum has posted maps nearly completely onto my experience, whereas your theory sets off alarm bells on more than one level.

The real reason my vote is on you is something nobody has mentioned - your "theory" seems designed to potentially out the seer/bodyguard to the wolves.

How so?

And I must not be understanding Lathum's theory well. Could you say what you think it is cronin so I could respond to it?

RendeR · 10-23-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Well, I have to go shopping, so I need to reveal now. I was hoping peops would hop elsewhere, but since not, here goes:

I am Ares. God of War and Bloodlust.

Argh, votes were moving anxiety, I realy don't think that was necesary, though i suppose it gives us a place to start.

hoopsguy · 10-23-2007, 09:01 PM

Yep, I'll try to check back before deadline but I'm interested in hearing a little more about Ares. It strikes me as an Olympian that might have their own victory conditions. It also was about the last person I thought of earlier when Anxiety indicated that he is "rarely warlike". Or, more to the point, the first person I had crossed off the list.

Neon_Chaos · 10-23-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

abe...what's your powers?

Why are you asking?

He revealed who he was. Without a mass-reveal that should be enough, unless someone else is truly Ares.

Barkeep49 · 10-23-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Argh, votes were moving anxiety, I realy don't think that was necesary, though i suppose it gives us a place to start.

I agree with this 100%.

10-23-2007, 08:12 PM	#251
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	From reading over your discussions I am beginning to understand BK's viewpoint. I don't necessarily agre with it, or at least the results it will garner, but I can see where he thinks it will get some sort of results. My problem is, the Enemy, will see his tactic for what it is, and basically ignore it and let us tear ourselves apart arguing over it. I think right now we're pointing fingers at fellow Olympians. Perhaps we should take a step back from accusing the standard targets and consider those who aren't in the normal back and forth of day 1 voting. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-23-2007, 08:14 PM	#252
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Thank you, PurdueBrad. Just want you to know you're voting for a good guy. Are you spending 4 points on me? Because I can reveal my role now, if only to convince you to switch. __________________ Come and see.

10-23-2007, 08:16 PM	#253
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Can someone give us an updated vote count (just base votes, I really don't care what people say they're spending points on atm) __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-23-2007, 08:16 PM	#254
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	I am all up with Render regarding UTR players. I hate the fact that the UTR guys mostly get a pass on day 1 for contributing nothing, and the guys who bother to create discussion are the ones targetted. I'm sure that people might busy, but we may as well look towards their direction. Anyone know where path12 has been? Or did he mention something about being unavailable for the day? __________________ Come and see.

10-23-2007, 08:25 PM	#260
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	My own opinion is that Neon/BK pushing for a mass reveal is not at all out of character for them. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

10-23-2007, 08:23 PM	#257
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	I can't wait to see what happens when Anxiety comes back. I put my vote on him to make him choose someone else other than himself. It's interesting that there was the pile on.

10-23-2007, 08:27 PM	#261
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I just don't like going full bore with the points when we don't have a clue who is a wolf--unless we're wolves. So anyone looking to drop the max looks very wolfish to me. A couple have said they would do this, but I will focus on the most vocal for now. VOTE BARKEEP

10-23-2007, 08:27 PM	#262
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	The UTR theory is an interesting one but I'll be honest, I'm often that way on day one just because I feel like Stevie Wonder locked in a cargo container in the bottom of a ship going through a hurricane (in other words, without a clue). But it may not be the worst way to take a day one vote either because, as somebody pointed out before, how often have we caught wolves day one (particularly compared to how many freaking times we've caught the seer instead recently!)?

10-23-2007, 08:46 PM	#271
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	I really hate day 1 votes, we never seem to learn anything. Especially in complicated games like this with so many roles and actions.

10-23-2007, 08:48 PM	#274
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Anyone have a good vote summary at this point? I'm going to have spotty access between now and deadline. First night home from six day trip and want to spend some time with family.

10-23-2007, 08:50 PM	#276
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I'm not surprised I'm getting a lot of D1 attention. Frustrated yes, but not surprised. I am aggressive about doing what I think is best for the village and sometimes others don't see it the same way.

10-23-2007, 08:51 PM	#277
ArlingtonColt H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: arlington, tx	Vote Barkeep

10-23-2007, 08:51 PM	#278
ArlingtonColt H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: arlington, tx	I'm going with Lathum's theory here.. and its just a random day 1 vote for me... sorry

10-23-2007, 08:51 PM	#279
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Render: We used to regularly vote out those who were silent on D1. It then became less of a problem and we've gone away from that. I'd be happy to join you in going back to that as I think encouraging participation is a great way to spend a d1 vote.

10-23-2007, 08:54 PM	#283
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	I also don't say you as in "RendeR" but you as in all of us.

10-23-2007, 08:56 PM	#287
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Well, I have to go shopping, so I need to reveal now. I was hoping peops would hop elsewhere, but since not, here goes: I am Ares. God of War and Bloodlust. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

10-23-2007, 08:58 PM	#292
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Has Racer been around? I'll still vote for him though, with the obvious conceit that I will move if necessary.

10-23-2007, 08:59 PM	#294
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	abe...what's your powers?

10-23-2007, 08:59 PM	#295
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I think it's important we ask ourselves which Gods would be most likely to be sympathetic to the Titans. I have to believe some Olympian is on their side. Not saying Anxiety is, but I think it's something to think about.

10-23-2007, 09:01 PM	#298
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Yep, I'll try to check back before deadline but I'm interested in hearing a little more about Ares. It strikes me as an Olympian that might have their own victory conditions. It also was about the last person I thought of earlier when Anxiety indicated that he is "rarely warlike". Or, more to the point, the first person I had crossed off the list.

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