It's the 2011 NBA playoffs! Mavs Win!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd probably have to overract & do everything I could to dismantle my roster (other than DH) as far as possible if I were Orlando.

[stevew]

None of the rest of their roster is really worth a shit though.

[Noop]

Orlando might as well trade Howard to Miami in exchange for Bosh. We will even throw in Mike Miller and Mario Chalmers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

None of the rest of their roster is really worth a shit though.

I think that's kind of my point

[Groundhog]

Howard to Denver?

[stevew]

Howard to Atlanta for Josh Smith and Horford? Just thinking out loud of course.

Edit
Attach a Hienrich for Jameer element so the Magic save a few dollars

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd probably have to overract & do everything I could to dismantle my roster (other than DH) as far as possible if I were Orlando.

Going to be tough. They have 2 horrible contracts (Hedo/Arenas) that no one will take. This is the team that is going to be around Dwight if he chooses to stay.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

Howard to Atlanta for Josh Smith and Horford? Just thinking out loud of course.

Edit
Attach a Hienrich for Jameer element so the Magic save a few dollars

While this sounds like a great deal for Orlando I cant see Atlanta doing it as Howard has probably a more unlikely chance of re-signing with Atlanta that he would Orlando.

[stevew]

He's from Atlanta I thought?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

He's from Atlanta I thought?

He is.

You know how these players are now though. He wants a big market. LBJ started a bad thing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He is.

You know how these players are now though. He wants a big market. LBJ started a bad thing.

How is "big market" defined anymore? Atlanta is a bigger market than Miami if we're talking media markets. And they're pretty much identical in metro area population.

[Radii]

How did Lebron start this? Hasn't there been a ton written on how what Lebron did, minus the TV Special FU to Cleveland of course, is exactly what players have been doing going back to Wilt? Good teams run by good GM's in small markets can succeed if they have solid talent, San Antonio, etc. In Oklahoma City if they continue to be run well and have success there's no reason to think they won't stay strong either. Draft poorly and fail to build around your star and your star will leave.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

How is "big market" defined anymore? Atlanta is a bigger market than Miami if we're talking media markets. And they're pretty much identical in metro area population.

Brand name marketing. Where can X player go to build up his brand via titles, endorsements, and general marketing. Not debating whether its right or wrong what he did Im just saying that Lebron opened the door for this to become more common.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He is.

You know how these players are now though. He wants a big market. LBJ started a bad thing.

Lebron started it ? As Radii says, I´d suggest you look up some stories from the 60s

Great road win for the Mavs to end the series in the Rose Garden. Still stopped playing a bit in the 4th and didn´t attack enough, but in the end a couple clutch shots by everybody and then Dirk icing it on the line. 33/11, shooting 11-17 from the field and 11/11 FTs.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Radii

How did Lebron start this? Hasn't there been a ton written on how what Lebron did, minus the TV Special FU to Cleveland of course, is exactly what players have been doing going back to Wilt? Good teams run by good GM's in small markets can succeed if they have solid talent, San Antonio, etc. In Oklahoma City if they continue to be run well and have success there's no reason to think they won't stay strong either. Draft poorly and fail to build around your star and your star will leave.

Really?

How many of the top 50 players in NBA history have left via free agency when their team was on the edge of a championship?

MJ No
Magic No
Bird No
Hakeem No
Scottie Pippen No
James Worthy No
Bill Russell No


In fact Im having a hard time thinking of more than 1 or 2. Who I am missing?

Shaq
Kareem???

I guess I dont ever remember Larry Bird joining up with Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan teaming up with Isiah Thomas to win championships because these 4 like many of the other all time greats had pride. LBJ has no pride and only cares about his brand.

He just gave the Howards, Pauls, and Anthonys easy outs to say FU to the franchise that drafted them and to show no loyalty.

It would have been a cold day in hell before you seen Michael Jordan jump ship to play with Magic, Bird or Isiah. He was hell bent on winning championships with his team and it only made him the best player in NBA history. Lebron is a big disappointment in my eyes. He could have been the greatest. He chose his brand over becoming the best. That is his choice but I have the right to be disappointed in him.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by whomario

Lebron started it ? As Radii says, I´d suggest you look up some stories from the 60s

What stories shall I read?

I dont even know if they had free agency in the 60s. Every transaction Im seeing from the 60s involves some sort of trade.

[Young Drachma]

This courtesy of Bill Simmons: Mostly trades, but...free agency is new in its current form.

PEOPLE WHO FORGET THAT YOU SHOULD ALWAYS TRADE THREE OR FOUR QUARTERS FOR A DOLLAR IN BASKETBALL: F-minus
If you disagree with the previous few paragraphs, you're bucking five solid decades of NBA history. Since 1965, not one NBA team that traded a package of pieces for a superstar regretted it after the fact. Don't believe me? Here's the complete list:

1965: Philly trades Connie Dierking, Paul Neumann, Lee Shaffer and cash to San Francisco for Wilt Chamberlain.

1968: Lakers trade Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark and Darrell Imhoff to Philly for Wilt Chamberlain.

1970: Milwaukee trades Flynn Robinson and Charlie Paulk to Cincinnati for Oscar Robertson.

1975: Lakers trade Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Dave Meyers and Junior Bridgeman to Milwaukee for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

1983: Philly trades Caldwell Jones and Cleveland's 1983 first-rounder (No. 3, Rodney McCray) to Houston for Moses Malone.

1993: Phoenix trades Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang to Philly for Charles Barkley.

1994: Washington trades Tom Gugliotta, 1996 first-rounder (No. 11, Todd Fuller), 1998 first (No. 13, Keon Clark) and 2000 first (No. 7, Chris Mihm) to Golden State for Chris Webber.

1996: Houston trades Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Chucky Brown and Mark Bryant to Phoenix for Charles Barkley.

1996: Phoenix trades Michael Finley, Sam Cassell, A.C. Green and a 1998 No. 2 (No. 53, Greg Buckner) to Dallas for Jason Kidd, Tony Dumas and Loren Meyer.

1999: Phoenix trades Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, 2001 first-rounder (No. 18, Jason Collins) and 2002 first (No. 9, Amare Stoudemire) to Orlando for Penny Hardaway.

2004: Houston trades Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, Tyronn Lue, Reece Gaines and Juwan Howard.

2005: New Jersey trades Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, Philly's 2005 No. 1 pick (No. 16, Joey Graham) and a 2006 No. 1 (No. 20, Renaldo Balkman) to Toronto for Vince Carter.

2005: Miami trades Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler, a 2006 No. 1 (No. 26, Jordan Farmar) and a 2006 No. 2 (No. 50, Renaldas Seibutis) to the Lakers for Shaquille O'Neal.

2007: Boston trades Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 No. 1 (No. 28, Wayne Ellington) and the rights to Minnesota's 2009 No. 1 (No. 6, Jonny Flynn) to Minnesota for Kevin Garnett.

2008: Lakers trade Kwame Brown, Jarvaris Crittendon, Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc Gasol, a 2008 No. 1 (No. 28, Donte Greene) and a 2010 No. 1 (No. 28, Greivis Vasquez) to Memphis for Pau Gasol.

That's 15 trades in all. Eight of them (Wilt, Wilt again, Oscar, Moses, Barkley, Shaq, KG and Gasol) resulted in a championship or a Finals appearance within two seasons. The Lakers ended up winning five titles with Kareem. Houston came within two wins and a Matt Maloney meltdown of making the '97 Finals with Barkley. Jersey easily won the Vince trade; same for Houston with T-Mac. Phoenix won the Kidd trade, although Finley had a nice career in Dallas. Washington's Webber deal could have backfired if any of the picks panned out ... but they didn't. Only Phoenix's Penny deal failed to work out, but in a strange twist, the Suns got their No. 1 pick back in a subsequent deal and took Stoudemire with it, so even THAT trade worked out. Fifteen for 15! When in doubt, you always want to grab the dollar bill if you're giving up change in the NBA.

It's not all about guys going big market to small market. But it is about guys going places to win now either by forcing the team's hand or by another intrepid team bringing them in. Controlling your own destiny isn't any different when a guy leaves Bear Stearns to go work for Goldman. Or when the dude making $50k leaves his job to make $80k plus incentives elsewhere. Maybe it's not as fair when they wear jerseys. And I get why folks would get upset.

But with LeBron, I don't understand how you can fault a guy who decides after playing in the same 100 mile radius his whole life, that he wanted to go hang out on the beach, play with his friends and see if they couldn't do something. Whether I agree with it or not, the logic isn't horrendous to me.

And if other guys want to control their destinies the same way? More power to them.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

But with LeBron, I don't understand how you can fault a guy who decides after playing in the same 100 mile radius his whole life, that he wanted to go hang out on the beach, play with his friends and see if they couldn't do something. Whether I agree with it or not, the logic isn't horrendous to me.

And if other guys want to control their destinies the same way? More power to them.

Lebron has every right to do what he wants.

Sure the NBA may lose popularity, cost people jobs, and force cities like Sac-town, Minneapolis, and Cleveland franchises but atleast Lebron got his.

I know this isnt all Lebrons fault but this creates something horrible that is starting to happen in the league. If these players start abandoning the cities they were drafted in as they come into their peak its going to create a really unbalanced league.

Its going to force the owners into contraction or different rookie contracts which may be beneficial to the league at some point but create a difficult situation in order to get there.

[RainMaker]

It's not Lebron's fault, it's the NBA rules that give big cities a huge advantage. The slotted salaries mean that the hometown really doesn't have any advantages in signing a player over another city. I still contend a great way to fix this would be to drop the slotted salaries and let teams pay what they want as long as they stay under the cap (or pay the luxury tax). Or allow current teams to offer a premium to players such as 20% more than what other cities are allowed to offer. Then there is a financial incentive to stay with your team.

[Matthean]

And the Spurs are done.

[Neon_Chaos]

Reporers have to be pissed. They could have been shuttling between Seattle and Vancouver, instead they have to settle for Oklahoma and Memphis.

[Passacaglia]

So does the NBA hate the idea of basketball on Saturday?

Also, are there specific rules for scheduling? Why does Memphis play again on Sunday, while other series, where both teams finished earlier, don't start until Monday?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So does the NBA hate the idea of basketball on Saturday?

If you play games on Saturday you might not be able to drag your playoffs out for 2 1/2 months. What's the fun in that.

[whomario]

I guess it´s a minimum of 2 days in between and since 3 series ended thursday that doesn´t leave a lot of wiggle room. It´s bad timing that we didn´t have any series going to 7 i guess.

i absolutely hate this though since weekends are pretty much the only possibility to watch any games live over here.

speaking of scheduling : Letter: TV's rules or the right thing to do? » The Commercial Appeal

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Also, are there specific rules for scheduling? Why does Memphis play again on Sunday, while other series, where both teams finished earlier, don't start until Monday?

I think that it was just easier to plan for the TV slots this way. Either way Memphis was going to be playing a game at 12 pm on Sunday.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by whomario

I guess it´s a minimum of 2 days in between and since 3 series ended thursday that doesn´t leave a lot of wiggle room. It´s bad timing that we didn´t have any series going to 7 i guess.

I'm not sure I understand that, but why couldn't they have had Lakers-Mavs or Bulls-Hawks on Saturday, if they can have Memphis play Friday and Sunday?

I'm pretty sure this happened around the same time last year. Yeah, big surprise that none of the first round series went to 7.

[whomario]

I actually didnt see that Memphis played sunday, that surprises me. Maybe sth about TV schedules then ... (since memphis would have played the spurs otherwise so the TV spot was booked regardless)

[Passacaglia]

And while I'm at it, Memphis should be in the Eastern Conference. I can see why the NFL wouldn't want to realign all the time, but I don't see a reason for the NBA not to.

[larnott]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And while I'm at it, Memphis should be in the Eastern Conference. I can see why the NFL wouldn't want to realign all the time, but I don't see a reason for the NBA not to.

I suppose you feel the same way about Minnesota & New Orleans as well?

Either way, its not as egregious as, say, placing the Miami Heat in the Western Conference (which actually happened, in its inaugural season)

[fpres]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And while I'm at it, Memphis should be in the Eastern Conference. I can see why the NFL wouldn't want to realign all the time, but I don't see a reason for the NBA not to.

I believe if you look at the longitudes of the cities involved, all Western Conference cities are west of all of the Eastern Conference cities. (I also didn't know this until somebody informed me).

[fpres]

BTW, I'm taking Memphis in 6 over OKC. The way they play defense reminds me of the way the Spurs used to play defense (pre-2006).

[whomario]

great start for the Grizzlies, Randolph with tough shots and Gasol with terrific overall play on both ends.

For OKC Westbrook plays like crap. Yeah, hit a few shots early but other than that it´s been bad decicions galore.

[whomario]

on consecutive posessions the Grizzlies get a fluke tip in off a deflected shot, an accidental bank from straightaway and a 3 from Zach Randolph. But they deserve that with the way they play, very fun to watch how they move the ball on offense.

[Warhammer]

ACK! I missed the first half, I thought the game was at 1!

It is nice to see this city finally rally behind the team though. It has been nuts the last couple of weeks.

[Noop]

I was expecting Randolph to revert back to his bum self but wow he is actually playing good.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Noop

I was expecting Randolph to revert back to his bum self but wow he is actually playing good.

at one point in the first half he passed up an open layup for the extra pass. If you haven´t watched him the last 2 couple seasons you rewind that 3 times to check if that was actually him

Grizzlies need to get Gasol back in pronto, as admireable as Arthur plays that is a huge drop off from Gasol to him on both ends.

[fpres]

OKC had better figure something out for Game 2 or this will be a quick series.

[Cuckoo]

Yep, tough game for OKC. They didn't play well defensively at all and weren't getting the rolls around the rim (the number of shots at point blank range that found their way out of the basket for the Thunder was incredible). Memphis just looked like the better team in a lot of ways, more composed, more precise, more aggressive. By the time the Thunder found some energy, it was too late and the Grizzlies countered each time OKC made any type of run.

[MrBug708]

This fourth quarter...interesting

[MikeVic]

Yeah that ejection sure was interesting. What a pussy ref.

[Noop]

Good game Miami. Let's do this again on Tuesday and hopefully Bosh shows up.

[hoopsguy]

I'm stunned that there were not Boston fans in here having tirades about the refs and the flagrant/technical foul calls in this game. That game was pretty brutal and one-sided in my opinion.

Miami was going to win this game either way, and they deserved the outcome they got. But the refs lost control of the game and used the miserable "double technical" cop-out liberally and inappropriately which resulted in Pierce missing the final 8 minutes of the game.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm stunned that there were not Boston fans in here having tirades about the refs and the flagrant/technical foul calls in this game. That game was pretty brutal and one-sided in my opinion.

It's the NBA. You either accept this and enjoy the game, or you don't and refuse to watch. I'm in the latter camp.

[RainMaker]

At least the Memphis-OKC game was fair and good.

[Groundhog]

Put me in the "expected Randolph to revert to being a bum" camp. Looking at it now, the issue with him has been the same ever since college - lack of maturity. It appears he just found the perfect situation, a place where he gets to be the man and a coach who knows how to motivate him. He's always had an abundance of talent, but watching him dribble out the clock before launching an airball 3 in a Knicks jersey... I think he's just been in bad situations with bad locker rooms.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by fpres

I believe if you look at the longitudes of the cities involved, all Western Conference cities are west of all of the Eastern Conference cities. (I also didn't know this until somebody informed me).

Well, damn -- apparently I had no idea where Memphis was.

[Coffee Warlord]

Dammit, just realized no local broadcasts in round 2. Which means no more Stacy King for the Bulls. Blegh.

[Groundhog]

Nice 4pt run by the Bulls, but Hawks are making it tough.

[Groundhog]

Good game for Atlanta. Joe Johnson has to be one of the least consistent "stars" in the league, but he poses a pretty big matchup problem for the Bulls. I doubt he shoots so well again, but I think even someone like Brewer, a pretty good defender despite the height difference, might need to get more minutes to attempt to cover him.

[Groundhog]

Outside of Miami, tough 1st game for the higher seeds.