Soccer Thread 2023-24 Edition

[AlexB]

Playing the same unbalanced system with essentially the same players produces essentially the same performance. Who could possibly have forseen that?

[bhlloy]

The only possible explanation I have is that Southgate is pulling off the longest undercover double agent routine. It’s been utterly obvious to anyone from minute one of the tournament what England’s problems are, and he’s made no attempt to fix any of it.

[AlexB]

No subs at half time? You might be right!

[sovereignstar v2]

When does Gallagher come on

[AlexB]

As Southgate has made just the one change, he must think that this is as good as we can play?

[AlexB]

He’s only trying to get Toney on on the off chance we score and he can take a pen.

Edit - forgot about extra time

[AlexB]

Southgate is a lucky bastard

[Ghost Econ]

Brits need to come up with a song that celebrates Jude Bellingham.

[AlexB]

Correction: Southgate is a very lucky bastard

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Brits need to come up with a song that celebrates Jude Bellingham.

There were definitely a few songs being sung about Bellingham in the first 90 minutes in the pub where I watched the match. None were celebratory though.

England today really was Arsenal in the last two or three years of Wenger. Unless it was a definite tap in, England refused to shoot. On the other hand, England’s defense is horrendous. Outside of Walker, all of those guys need someone in front of them to help out defensively. Southgate wants clean sheets. The only way that is happening is with Kane, Foden and Bellingham to drop deep. Southgate has to give up the idea of keeping clean sheets. Attack, attack, attack and try to win 3-2 or 4-3 is the only path to the championship IMO.

[sovereignstar v2]

Portugal and Slovenia in a crazy extra time. Oblak makes a great save to stop a Ronaldo pen after a Diego Jota dive and then Slovenia's star striker shits the bed on a 1 on 1. Likely going to penalties

[Ksyrup]

That Slovenian dude blew the game missing that 1 on 1. And yeah, that penalty save on Ronaldo was karma because that penalty was the equivalent of LeBron ramming his way down the lane and being bailed out by refs for an out of control attempt that he never had a chance on.

[sovereignstar v2]

This ref has no idea what he is doing

[RainMaker]

Is this on another network where the camera isn't so high up?

[sovereignstar v2]

What are you watching on? FS1 looks normal to me

[RainMaker]

They switched the view. Game started way up.

This ref sucks.

[RainMaker]

I guess I don't understand the offsides rule.

[cartman]

so if US Soccer decides to move on from Berhalter, who do they bring in?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess I don't understand the offsides rule.

Appears he was offsides although I'm always skeptical when the video evidence is shown like 5-10 minutes later and after we've been shown video that suggests he wasn't offsides.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I haven't a clue how good/bad a writer ESPN's Jeff Carlisle is supposed to be but I'm gonna borrow a snippet from his long Berhalter-Has-To-Go piece to raise a point/quesiton

Credit Uruguay. It defended tenaciously, which is the ethos that has been the backbone of its success for over 100 years. It used to be part of the United States' too, but for some reason it now comes and goes. That is on Berhalter, as well.

How is that "on Berhalter" exactly? He doesn't have a button to push that generates effort.

And for all the claims of "generational talent" I keep hearing, at the national team level, I'm not seeing any proof of it. Perhaps the issue is more than just "talent", maybe it's a matter of an inadequate supply of talent+desire. Specifically, maybe this crop of "talent' really isn't motivated by much other than a paycheck. Which to my understanding is a club thing, not a national team thing (unless they make a hella lot more for this than I believe they do). That shirt really doesn't seem like it matters a whole lot to them, not if you go by the performances vs the alleged talent level.

Don't misunderstand me: it seems obvious that Berhalter HAS to go ... but maybe it's simply an impossible job for anyone at this point?

[RainMaker]

I don't know the answer but there is no reason a team as talented as that should be struggling against weak CONCACAF teams. They have to change things up.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Appears he was offsides although I'm always skeptical when the video evidence is shown like 5-10 minutes later and after we've been shown video that suggests he wasn't offsides.

VAR Review: Why Uruguay's goal vs. United States was onside - ESPN

Short version. Copa America is still using the old crosshairs technology (remember the lines?!) which allows them to give the benefit of doubt to the attacker in cases that are too close to call. If they were using the semi automated tech that they are using in the Euros, the goal is disallowed.

Those that don't think a goal should be disallowed because someone is a toenail offside should rejoice. That is essentially what happened here.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

so if US Soccer decides to move on from Berhalter, who do they bring in?

The next name on the list they made when they chose Berhalter for the job again. I mean they did a whole coaching search right?

[cartman]

That guy now coaches Canada

[RainMaker]

Euros have been highly entertaining. That Saka goal.

[Ghost Econ]

Damn Berhalter, this should have been the US getting boatr raced by Colombia

[miami_fan]

The "football is a contact sport" crowd must be loving this Uruguay v. Brazil match. A two foot lunge above someone's knee MIGHT get the player a yellow card.

[sovereignstar v2]

First semi is delivering. Spanish 16yo just scored a wonder goal

[AlexB]

France played a bit better, especially at the start, but Deschamps is going to get both barrels from the French press and public for the way his team (many people’s pre-tournament favourites) were set up.

If you play that way, you simply have to win to avoid blowback.


Over to Gareth…

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by AlexB

France played a bit better, especially at the start, but Deschamps is going to get both barrels from the French press and public for the way his team (many people’s pre-tournament favourites) were set up.

If you play that way, you simply have to win to avoid blowback.


Over to Gareth…

Deschamps will get criticized but I think the French media and public understand this is who he is. He has never been an coach who wants to throw everyone forward. Outside of playing Gibraltar or the Faroe Islands, he is going to play 8 or 9 players behind the ball and hope the other two players create a goal at some point. He did reach the semis again in a tournament and is signed until 2026. You are right though. He has to win to avoid blowback. But he has won and I am not sure you get rid of a coach who keeps getting you to semifinals and finals.

One thing about this tournament I have had to laugh at are the people who criticized a coach like Vincent Kompany or a fan base like West Ham about trying to play/wanting to watch pretty football and saying they should only be concerned with winning and/or not losing now criticizing Deschamps and Southgate for only worrying about winning and/or not losing instead of trying to play more pretty football. The first concern of both Deschamps and Southgate is keeping a clean sheet. Then it is about scoring goals. It seems clear that for Luis Del La Fuente, he wants to score goals and then worrying about keeping clean sheets.

[sovereignstar v2]

LFG England

[sovereignstar v2]

Bollocks

[sovereignstar v2]

2nd semi also... delivering

[sovereignstar v2]

Take off Bellingham you pansy

[sovereignstar v2]

Haha, of course his sub comes in and scores a super goal

[miami_fan]

Go for three and four Gareth! Don’t go defensive!

[sovereignstar v2]

Hope he ends up at United by the middle of next season

[MIJB#19]

We had a good run, but it's sad that a bizar VAR moment will make all the headlines instead of the actual performance and play on the field.
After the 1-0, England dominated. In the second half England looked lost when on the ball and later on they were rip for the picking. Until the late substitutes made the difference. overall, we got deeper into the tournament than the public here expected, the team won back the public support. I bet more than half of the population in the Netherlands watched the match. And most go to bed feeling like we got robbed.

[Ksyrup]

Sounds like the US fired their coach.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Sounds like the US fired their coach.

Hard to rehire him if you don't fire him first

[JonInMiddleGA]

Malice at the Bank?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Sounds like the US fired their coach.

Klopp announced as new manager tomorrow or after the finals on Sunday?

No, I heard Klopp is ready to be the USMNT manager and it will be a complete failure of U.S. Soccer does not get him through the door.

[RainMaker]

Wouldn't Klopp demand a ton of money? Like way more than they were paying Berhalter.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Go for three and four Gareth! Don’t go defensive!

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

We had a good run, but it's sad that a bizar VAR moment will make all the headlines instead of the actual performance and play on the field.
After the 1-0, England dominated. In the second half England looked lost when on the ball and later on they were rip for the picking. Until the late substitutes made the difference. overall, we got deeper into the tournament than the public here expected, the team won back the public support. I bet more than half of the population in the Netherlands watched the match. And most go to bed feeling like we got robbed.

Was never a penalty, and most of the decisions seemed to go our way.

The first 45 minutes was the best we’ve played by a long way in this tournament, and overall I thought we were the better side, but there’s no denying that the penalty decision gave us a way back into the gMe, and changed the whole dynamic

If I was Dutch, I would feel robbed too

[miami_fan]

Absolutely! I don’t think money should necessarily be a limiting factor though. My issue is this all seems unplanned in a way it should not be. Berhalter was never a long term solution. This coaching search could have begun after the friendly debacle against Colombia. If they were going to fire him after not getting out of the group, then US Soccer has to have a plan in place for when the axe drops. It is even more imperative to have a plan because supposedly US Soccer just did a review of the program which is why they rehired Berhalter.

I don’t see Klopp leaving Liverpool because he needs a break just to jump in to the USMNT manager a couple months later. If he does, great. Does that fit what US Soccer had planned for the program moving forward? Not saying you jump at the chance to get Klopp to stick to the plan. I am saying you don’t rehire Berhalter as a placeholder for a guy like Klopp or a Klopp style system if that is what you are looking for. If Klopp turns us down, is Jose next? Tuchel? Sir Alex?

They just did this brilliantly on the women’s side. There is no reason for this not to go as smoothly with the men if there is an actual plan

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=miami_fan;3436394]

There is no reason for this not to go as smoothly with the men if there is an actual plan

Other than being a less attractive job with less chance for success. With the added benefit of an oh-so-charming talent pool that appears to be far more hype than substance.

What's not to love?

[RainMaker]

Wasn't Klopp making like $20 million with Liverpool?

The only hope was that Klopp doesn't like the everyday stress of the PL and a national team would be a much easier position. But still, they were paying Berhalter just over $2 million so you'd have to think it would be a considerable jump for Klopp.

It'll probably just be some MLS guy like Cherundolo or Curtin. USMNT just doesn't seem that interested in making a jump.

[MIJB#19]

With the World Cup in the USA (and a little bit of Mexico and Canada), this could be the right time to go ahead and approach a 'big name' coach who's looking for a relaxed job for the next year or two. Especially ones with a bit of an ego and feeling ready to prove the world they can turn the USA into a quarterfinalist at the WC stage. I'm having flashbacks to Guus Hiddink with South Korea in 2002. Some refereeing inconsistencies here or there and the quarterfinals might become a possibility.


I just glanced over the 48-team tournament format/concept... goodness, 104 matches crammed between June 11th and July 19th, a 32-team knockout phase... Trying to keep up with all that's going on will be an impossible task. The last bunch of group matches in will be as defensive as we saw at Euro'24 with all those teams in groups E through K - seriously, a finals tournament with a Group K; also think back to the original lunacy suggestion of 16 groups of 3, they almost ran out of letters to number the groups - calculating how to make sure to finish ahead of the 3rd place teams of groups A through D. After all, finishing 1st or 3rd won't matter much if at all with the knockout phase being so seemingly random. It can never end up being as out of balance as Euro'24 turned out to be, but it's a nice forecast of what could happen.

Anyway, Jürgen Klopp, sure, who not? Just make him an offer, he might even not reject it.

[miami_fan]

[quote=JonInMiddleGA;3436396]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Other than being a less attractive job with less chance for success. With the added benefit of an oh-so-charming talent pool that appears to be far more hype than substance.

What's not to love?

If US Soccer thought this was a position for a Jurgen Klopp, they would not have rehired Berhalter. Just like the women’s job, they would have waited and made the behind the scenes overtures until such time as Klopp was ready to take over just like they did with Emma Hayes.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It'll probably just be some MLS guy like Cherundolo or Curtin. USMNT just doesn't seem that interested in making a jump.

If one of those guys is a better manager/ head coach (BTW which is it?) than Berhalter for the first team, than is all that matters. Luis de la Fuente, Nestor Lorenzo, Gareth Southgate, and Lionel Scaloni are not known as the greatest tactical minds in the game.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Luis de la Fuente, Nestor Lorenzo, Gareth Southgate, and Lionel Scaloni are not known as the greatest tactical minds in the game.

When you have world class players, that makes up for a lot of tactical deficiencies. Of those you listed, de la Fuente's Spanish team is probably the least star studded Spanish side in a while, but still full of skill.