Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[RealDeal]

Saldana,

You don't get it. The upside in my ability comes from the fact that, if I am verified, then we basically have a very hard time losing the game. I can't be killed by wolves. The idea that the utility in my role comes form the chance that the wovles might waste a turn on me is silly. That is of relatively minor importance.

We're on the 20th or so WW and people still play the game very poorly. The wolves have all the info and the villagers have none. Yet every game, the villagers hide their info and waste too many early game turns. My value is that I am unkillable. That should be known early in the game. If I waited until the middle of the game and suddenly revealed when I was about to get lynched, no one would believe me. That's why I revealed now.

To repeat, I cannot be killed by wolves. The only way I can be killed is if you screw up. That's why I want to get scanned. I'll be here, and everyone knows my story. It can be verified. No one else has supplied the villagers with any useful info yet, except perhaps GE. I can't understand why this is how you would want to respond to that.

[BrianD]

So Bullet and RealDeal have the most votes now with me and Mustang the only other ones with more than one? It looks like my vote is being wasted right now, but I'm not sure where to shift it...

[saldana]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Most of the examples you cite played quietly on Day 1, though. Also, when was the fake reveal on Day 1? That's an idiotic play that I don't think has ever happened.

all the more reason to suspect it, imo.

something blade touched on a few posts up, and that i have been thinking all day...this is far from RD's first game, dont make the mistake of thinking he is a rookie just because some of you havent played with him before...giving up your role like that on day one is something i would excuse from a newer player...realdeal is NOT a newer player...he has been in a number of these and IIRC, has done rather well for himself....why not do it on day 1, when no one would expect it.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Most of the examples you cite played quietly on Day 1, though. Also, when was the fake reveal on Day 1? That's an idiotic play that I don't think has ever happened.

Im talking when they were bad, not today. I couldnt shut up when i was bad.

I did a fake role reveal on day one, and im pretty sure it happend a few times before me(especially in the days of peregrine). Its not idiotic, has look whats happened. He has earned trust with a power that cant be tested. Also, if bad and a seer scans him, they gain a dead seer after revealing on him. So either hes trusted, takes a seer with him, or we lynch him today. Seems smart to me.

To be cute, everytime a wolf says he is a good guy/villager its a role reveal. Note carefully he has claimed a role/power that cannot be verified. Its a pretty solid reveal. Only way to discredit it, is to reveal key villager roles who scanned him.

[Greyroofoo]

how are we suppose to verify you w/o drawing out our seer?

[st.cronin]

More and more I think that RealDeal is good, but trying to pull the wool over the bad guys eyes. That makes the most sense to me. I also think he's going to get lynched.

*sigh*

[Fouts]

Good post RD. You are high on my trust list now.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Saldana,

You don't get it. The upside in my ability comes from the fact that, if I am verified, then we basically have a very hard time losing the game. I can't be killed by wolves. The idea that the utility in my role comes form the chance that the wovles might waste a turn on me is silly. That is of relatively minor importance.

We're on the 20th or so WW and people still play the game very poorly. The wolves have all the info and the villagers have none. Yet every game, the villagers hide their info and waste too many early game turns. My value is that I am unkillable. That should be known early in the game. If I waited until the middle of the game and suddenly revealed when I was about to get lynched, no one would believe me. That's why I revealed now.

To repeat, I cannot be killed by wolves. The only way I can be killed is if you screw up. That's why I want to get scanned. I'll be here, and everyone knows my story. It can be verified. No one else has supplied the villagers with any useful info yet, except perhaps GE. I can't understand why this is how you would want to respond to that.

this is an outstanding cover story....did Horus the traitor help you write it?

the reason you cannot be killed by the wolves is because you are one.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

how are we suppose to verify you w/o drawing out our seer?

Exactly my point...you either trust him blindly or have a seer have to come out and reveal. Either way he benefits. His claim cant be verified by ingame reasons.

Note, the one player we have who can kill bad guys outside of lynch is who they want you to kill...smart

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

More and more I think that RealDeal is good, but trying to pull the wool over the bad guys eyes. That makes the most sense to me. I also think he's going to get lynched.

*sigh*

Highly unlikely...we have to wing 2...1 for a tie, which fouts will break to bullet...hes quite safe, sadly

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by saldana

all the more reason to suspect it, imo.

I want you to think about that logic for a minute. A move which INVARIABLY draws lynch attention on days 2 and up, made on day 1 when everybody is dying to find a reason to lynch somebody, anybody ... and a wolf makes that move? I know that in this game sometimes the bad play is the good play, but the insane play? The suicidal play?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Highly unlikely...we have to wing 2...1 for a tie, which fouts will break to bullet...hes quite safe, sadly

Sorry, I believe in KISS. It makes no sense for a wolf to do this on day 1 with no votes on him.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Hence why i think you need to vote realdeal..bullet is dying for a bs reason, while the one true suspect is getting off clean

Ya.. I can't disagree there. I don't fully understand the scanning this on the first night. (realdeal, feel free to explain.. probably just 1st day paranoia) I'd imagine that any seer in this game would be a psyker and to use your psychic abilities, one has to draw upon the warp.. (warp=chaos). In the game you can fail in your use of psychic abilities and be killed as demons enter you so, I suppose it is possible that if a Chaos person was scanned, it wouldn't work at the seer could be destroyed or turned..

Now.. granted, I'm taking alot of liberties here from my knowledge of 40k and translating theory to this game...

Probably just overthinking it myself... still...

Unvote Kingfc22
Vote Realdeal

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

how are we suppose to verify you w/o drawing out our seer?

we cant...thats why it is a solid move for a wolf, but a poor one for a villager.


if i had gotten the role he is claiming, i would be trying to draw the wolves to me, not chasing them away....drop hints that you are the seer, make them try to eat me and fail...thats what a blessed should do...not tell them 5 minutes into the game not to waste their turn trying.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Sorry, I believe in KISS. It makes no sense for a wolf to do this on day 1 with no votes on him.

You are thinking exactly the way I am.

I will say this: When RealDeal comes up clean, look for wolves amongst those who voted for somebody else. The wolves are just going to let you guys lynch him.

[Greyroofoo]

Unvote BrianD
Vote realdeal

We have other primarchs if realdeal sacrafices his soul for the emporer.
Its much better to keep bulletsponge down the road based on role alone.

[RealDeal]

I have to do this for self-preservation. The first turn of the game a guy says he can't be killed by wolves. You could kill me anytime and yet a bunch of you want to vote to kill the guy who claims to be unkillable by wolves? Even if you thought I might be a wolf, it's an idiotic play.

Honestly, I can't believe you guys. Except for Blade, of course, I can believe it from him.

unvote Mustang
vote Bullet

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Even if you thought I might be a wolf, it's an idiotic play.

/agree

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

That's why I want to get scanned. I'll be here, and everyone knows my story. It can be verified. No one else has supplied the villagers with any useful info yet, except perhaps GE. I can't understand why this is how you would want to respond to that.

I don't understand what scanning will accomplish? Then the seer has to reveal that he has scanned you which makes him public enemy #1 to the forces of Chaos..

Unless I'm missing something..

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Except for Blade, of course, I can believe it from him

.....i dont need to be provoked, so dont. Cut out the personal attacks now....

[RealDeal]

Let me repeat, even if you think I am a wolf, if you are a villager, why on earth would you kill the guy who claims his ability is that he can't be killed by wolves on the first turn of the game????

[tanglewood]

Current Day 1 Vote Count

bulletsponge 5 - AlanT, Fouts, Swaggs, SirFozzie, RealDeal
RealDeal 4 - saldana, path12, Blade, Greyroofoo
Anxiety 1 - twothree, st.cronin
Mustang 1 - kingfc22
kingfc22 1 - Mustang
Swaggs 1 - Chief Rum
Chief Rum 1 - bulletsponge
Greyroofoo 1 - BrianD

Yet To Vote: GoldenEagle, Anxiety

19 minutes to deadline.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Let me repeat, even if you think I am a wolf, if you are a villager, why on earth would you kill the guy who claims his ability is that he can't be killed by wolves on the first turn of the game????

Over a guy who can actually KILL wolves...even if your both honest, his power is far more useful in the search for victory. You are just a nice # in the ratio.

Your role had power, until you revealed. If true, your useless...if bad, your useless.

[Fouts]

Somebody made a post last game or the game before that people want to be the hero sniffing out the bluff. Even when they are dead wrong.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Let me repeat, even if you think I am a wolf, if you are a villager, why on earth would you kill the guy who claims his ability is that he can't be killed by wolves on the first turn of the game????

because why should we believe anything a wolf says?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Over a guy who can actually KILL wolves...even if your both honest, his power is far more useful in the search for victory. You are just a nice # in the ratio.

Your role had power, until you revealed. If true, your useless...if bad, your useless.

You don't actually know what bullet's role IN THE GAME is. (title <=> role) And even if you are comfortable assuming that you know his role, there is no shortage of equally appealing candidates.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Let me repeat, even if you think I am a wolf, if you are a villager, why on earth would you kill the guy who claims his ability is that he can't be killed by wolves on the first turn of the game????

honestly, i dont trust anyone that calls out the seer on the first day of the game, which is essentially what you are doing with your "reveal"

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Current Day 1 Vote Count

bulletsponge 5 - AlanT, Fouts, Swaggs, SirFozzie, RealDeal
RealDeal 4 - saldana, path12, Blade, Greyroofoo
Anxiety 1 - twothree, st.cronin
Mustang 1 - kingfc22
kingfc22 1 - Mustang
Swaggs 1 - Chief Rum
Chief Rum 1 - bulletsponge
Greyroofoo 1 - BrianD

Yet To Vote: GoldenEagle, Anxiety

19 minutes to deadline.

Clarification: Does Anxiety have 1 or 2 votes?

[tanglewood]

Correction a vote switch was unnoted.

Current Day 1 Vote Count

bulletsponge 5 - AlanT, Fouts, Swaggs, SirFozzie, RealDeal
RealDeal 5 - saldana, path12, Blade, Greyroofoo, Mustang
Anxiety 2 - twothree, st.cronin
Mustang 1 - kingfc22
Swaggs 1 - Chief Rum
Chief Rum 1 - bulletsponge
Greyroofoo 1 - BrianD

Yet To Vote: GoldenEagle, Anxiety

17 minutes to deadline.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Somebody made a post last game or the game before that people want to be the hero sniffing out the bluff. Even when they are dead wrong.

And no one wants the be the guy that blindly followed the bluff, looking like a fool as they kill of the useful roles(or last game our only public COT, one by one).

[GoldenEagle]

VOTE ALAN T

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Somebody made a post last game or the game before that people want to be the hero sniffing out the bluff. Even when they are dead wrong.

i hardly want to be the hero Fouts, i just dont buy this whole routine...and i also find it rather BS like that all day long, realdeal had nothing to say, but when a few votes started falling his way, he suddenly is posting every other line. all of this smells to me.

[Greyroofoo]

You have Anxiety listed as having 1 vote, but you have two names......

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

You don't actually know what bullet's role IN THE GAME is. (title <=> role) And even if you are comfortable assuming that you know his role, there is no shortage of equally appealing candidates.

Bullet, PROB. our assasin, is getting killed for acting totally different then last game when he was a wolf(when he was quiet, non-confrontational). Realdeal, who you are too new to remember(which is saying something, as you have been around for awhile) makes a move thats within what i consider his wolf profile, and im an idiot.

If you want to go to a third party canidate, fine. But i see no reason anyone is a better suspect then realdeal right now.

[saldana]

well goldeneagle, that was certainly not helpful to any cause

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

VOTE ALAN T

Well thats odd..GE, you smell Alan? Why him over real or bullet?

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by saldana

well goldeneagle, that was certainly not helpful to any cause

I was thinking that too...

[Abe Sargent]

SO hard to choose who to vote for

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Bullet, PROB. our assasin, is getting killed for acting totally different then last game when he was a wolf(when he was quiet, non-confrontational). Realdeal, who you are too new to remember(which is saying something, as you have been around for awhile) makes a move thats within what i consider his wolf profile, and im an idiot.

If you want to go to a third party canidate, fine. But i see no reason anyone is a better suspect then realdeal right now.

There is no evidence outside your imagination that bullet has an "assasin" role in this game.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I will say this: When RealDeal comes up clean, look for wolves amongst those who voted for somebody else. The wolves are just going to let you guys lynch him.

cronin, if RD comes up clean, this will probably prove to be the most intelligent post of the day

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There is no evidence outside your imagination that bullet has an "assasin" role in this game.

He has claimed it himself

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

why would the Assassins leader be a badie, that would make the wolves way to powerful, capable of many kills everynight. dont lynch me, you will regret not having my sweet assassins around when we get several badie suspect around

For st. cronin, who believes this is not evidence yet realdeal's claims must be fact

[BrianD]

Unvote Greyroofoo
Vote RealDeal

I hope you guys are right.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I am very much with Fouts, except for his suspicion of bullet. I don't think he's that suspicious.

UNVOTE BRIAND

VOTE ANXIETY

Gut + logic

Gut on Day One when I am away most of the day with heavy Staff training + date night? Logic in teh same situation?

That's silly. At least twothree had the balls to say that voting for me was a random vote.

Vote St. Cronin

[Greyroofoo]

"The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum" to me SCREAMS assassin

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Gut on Day One when I am away most of the day with heavy Staff training + date night? Logic in teh same situation?

That's silly. At least twothree had the balls to say that voting for me was a random vote.

Vote St. Cronin

again, with what is on the table, this is not helpful

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

For st. cronin, who believes this is not evidence yet realdeal's claims must be fact

I thought bullet later retracted that claim?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Unvote Greyroofoo
Vote RealDeal

I hope you guys are right.

I rather hope so too. I think he is the best risk/reward pick we can make. His role was now useless if good, and if bad we have a line to follow

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by saldana

again, with what is on the table, this is not helpful

BrianD put real in the lead, so anxiety, despite not knowing it at the time, made a vote of little relevance.

[GoldenEagle]

Unvote Alan T

Vote BrianD