Israeli-Hamas War (Oct 2023)

[CrimsonFox]

Why do israel and palestine care about the Land of Gaza and the Land of West Bank?

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They will never allow this to happen. The whole reason Israel has been propping up Hamas is to prevent a 2 state solution from happening.

Yes, because Palestinians are in favour of a two-state solution while the citizens of Israel are not. Or not.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Yes, because Palestinians are in favour of a two-state solution while the citizens of Israel are not. Or not.

I'm sure its unpopular to those who have had their land stolen and been oppressed, but Fatah has supported a 2 state solution for awhile now. Their openness to it is why Israel supported Hamas.

[RainMaker]

According to testimonies, an #American R9X Hellfire have been fired at journalists at Al Shifa Hospital tonight. The missile has blades that rotate at high speed leaving amputations around and few damage in buildings.#Gaza pic.twitter.com/pB00SvcAs7

— Quds News Network (@QudsNen) November 9, 2023

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Yes, because Palestinians are in favour of a two-state solution while the citizens of Israel are not. Or not.

Oh, let's just make it easy for everyone to see.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That is horrific.

[Edward64]

re: the "R9X Hellfire" hit at the hospital yesterday, the IDF response below.

Pics of the remnants (blades, serial no, etc?) would be nice to figure out who's telling the truth.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-...-23/index.html

The Israeli military claimed that a misfired projectile launched from inside Gaza was responsible for a strike on al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City on Friday.

“Earlier today, the IDF received reports of a hit on the Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. The Hamas-run media office in the Gaza Strip immediately claimed that this was a strike carried out by the IDF,” IDF spokesperson, Lt. Col. Richard Hecht said in a statement sent to CNN.

The IDF said that an examination of its operational systems indicated that “a misfired projectile launched by terrorist organizations inside the Gaza Strip hit the Shifa Hospital.”

Hecht went on to claim that the projectile had been aimed at “IDF troops operating in the vicinity.”

Several social media videos emerged online Friday showing injured people lying on the ground of the outpatient clinic following the strike.

[GrantDawg]

Ir is really hard to believe they used very expensive munitions whose primary purpose to limit collateral damage while targeting VIP targets on just a random crowd.

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[Edward64]

Mistakes (and coverups) happen.

On both sides.

I can believe it was an Israeli munition. Would be nice if there was evidence of whose munition it was, you'd think it easy enough to show.

[RainMaker]

There is no way Hamas has access to an R9X unless they came into a lot of money and Lockheed is dealing under the table.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is no way Hamas has access to an R9X unless they came into a lot of money and Lockheed is dealing under the table.

I think the implication is they lied about the R9X (e.g. like the JDAM from 4 weeks ago).

[RainMaker]

For what its worth, Bellingcat says it wasn't an R9X but an Israeli illumination shell. They seem to have some photographic proof.

This footage from the immediate aftermath of the event points to it being the remains of an Israeli illumination shell, definitely not any sort of Hellfire missile. https://t.co/8xWuciRyxe https://t.co/YomXvzcWZ4 pic.twitter.com/XvTwDULEwR

— Eliot Higgins (@EliotHiggins) November 10, 2023

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

For what its worth, Bellingcat says it wasn't an R9X but an Israeli illumination shell. They seem to have some photographic proof.

Good to know. If true, I guess that means it wasn't intentional.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Good to know. If true, I guess that means it wasn't intentional.

lol

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

lol

You think an illumination shell was intentional?

[RainMaker]

Can never tell if you're trolling or dumb.

[RainMaker]

Blasting hospitals and targeting journalists for weeks. I wonder who could have done this. Truly a mystery.

[CrimsonFox]

The video is confusing. Like there's nothing right where the victim is. LIke a blast or a hole or smoke so was hard to figure out what I was looking at. Was his leg cut off or bent backward? I'm not sure. Perhaps the blades spring out from the missile and travel away from it? because I don't see a missile. Any help?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Can never tell if you're trolling or dumb.

Yeah, ditto.

If you really believe an illumination round was fired intentionally into the hospital parking lot … smh

But I guess better than a fancy ninja blade weapon.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Blasting hospitals and targeting journalists for weeks. I wonder who could have done this. Truly a mystery.

I guess you still think it was an Israeli JDAM that hit the hospital 4 weeks ago and created that teeny crater?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

The video is confusing. Like there's nothing right where the victim is. LIke a blast or a hole or smoke so was hard to figure out what I was looking at. Was his leg cut off or bent backward? I'm not sure. Perhaps the blades spring out from the missile and travel away from it? because I don't see a missile. Any help?

Subject to more analysis ...

... but what I read was it was an illumination shell. And illumination shells are meant to be shot up and slowly come back down with a parachute e.g. illuminating the area with the slow descent. It's not a ninja blade chopper as initially said by Hamas, nor an explosive shell creating a crater.

If it was an illumination shell (because the other option is another terrorist failed rocket like from 4 weeks ago), the question is how it landed in the parking lot taking out that poor guy's leg.

I've read some theories, but none of the convincing so we'll just have to wait.

[CrimsonFox]

But Spinning Ninja blade missiles sound so cool.
Can I PLEASE have a spinning ninja blade, Edward?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

But Spinning Ninja blade missiles sound so cool.
Can I PLEASE have a spinning ninja blade, Edward?

Unfortunately, they cost a lot of money so I'm sure they're reserved for the top Hamas terrorists and not just a poor guy in a hospital parking lot.

But I'll be on the lookout for you this BF.


EDIT: for you to dream about ...

[CrimsonFox]

I mean I'd say that sounds totally fictional ...however there are bullet and bombs that have creative ways of spreading shrapnel so I guess I'd believe something could exist.

But there was ZERO chance there was a parachute iinvolved here. You HEARD the missile swishing through the air and landing. Also I found it just odd....why is that lone guy in the middle of the open air like that when no one else is. The blood is spread over that area. Was it his? It's just it's a wide pool of blood and it JUST happened.

ah I found this video in that twitter thread

https://twitter.com/i/status/1722754883416158499

Yes from this angle it IS his leg that got severed and that IS his leg next to him. THey are applying a tourniquet.

I STILL don't see any metal that caused the damage tho.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Unfortunately, they cost a lot of money so I'm sure they're reserved for the top Hamas terrorists and not just a poor guy in a hospital parking lot.

But I'll be on the lookout for you this BF.


EDIT: for you to dream about ...

Thanks Santa! wow he doesn't even have to go through the chimjney. He can just toss it over the side of his sleigh for me!

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I mean I'd say that sounds totally fictional ...however there are bullet and bombs that have creative ways of spreading shrapnel so I guess I'd believe something could exist.

But there was ZERO chance there was a parachute iinvolved here. You HEARD the missile swishing through the air and landing. Also I found it just odd....why is that lone guy in the middle of the open air like that when no one else is. The blood is spread over that area. Was it his? It's just it's a wide pool of blood and it JUST happened.

ah I found this video in that twitter thread

https://twitter.com/i/status/1722754883416158499

Yes from this angle it IS his leg that got severed and that IS his leg next to him. THey are applying a tourniquet.

I STILL don't see any metal that caused the damage tho.

Yeah, I saw another video of the poor guy. There was also someone injured in a damaged car close by, he was dragged out. A "shell casing" was in/near the car. If that was the culprit, it definitely wasn't the ninja blade chopper and it didn't explode. It was more like it fell to the ground.

Yes, agree there didn't seem to be a parachute involved. Redditors are puzzled, give them a couple days and they'll come up with a working theory.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah, I saw another video of the poor guy. There was also someone injured in a damaged car close by, he was dragged out. A "shell casing" was in/near the car. If that was the culprit, it definitely wasn't the ninja blade chopper and it didn't explode. It was more like it fell to the ground.

Yes, agree there didn't seem to be a parachute involved. Redditors are puzzled, give them a couple days and they'll come up with a working theory.

oh there was a picture and explanation of the illum thingee. The parachute is on the phosphurous canister inside not on the missile itself. So I guess the missile just "falls to earth".....WHOOPSIE!

[Edward64]

Some serious fighting going on right now on the AFP live feed. Rifle fire and big explosions.

GAZA LIVE : Palestine,GAZA | Multi-cams | Stream#81 - YouTube

[CrimsonFox]

At least the oiriginal theory I was thinking was fiction. They made it sound like the spinning blades were shot off AWAY FROM the missile and made to spin and rotate as they fly. At least that was the only way I could think that happened HERE.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Some serious fighting going on right now on the AFP live feed. Rifle fire and big explosions.

GAZA LIVE : Palestine,GAZA | Multi-cams | Stream#81 - YouTube

I would NOT want to be in or around any of those semi tall buildings. Those will probably all be flattened soon.

[CrimsonFox]

Is this really the first war we've had live film shown of events for everyone to see without censoring?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I would NOT want to be in or around any of those semi tall buildings. Those will probably all be flattened soon.

I've watched various live feeds since the fighting started. This has been the most intense & constant that I've seen/heard.

I've read the fighting is close by the hospital where the Hamas HQ is.

[CrimsonFox]

I can't help winder what exactly is going on down there. THere sure is a lot of noise but is anyone actually firing at anything. Or just firing in the air to make noise.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Is this really the first war we've had live film shown of events for everyone to see without censoring?

Kind of. There is a lot of stuff from the Ukraine war but it seems to be more prevalent on sites like Telegram.

This one has way more civilian carnage since that's been the target in thisbwar. So youre getting way more first hand video from people on the ground. Russia largely avoided civilians and most were able to get out of the region or country before the heavy fighting started. So you just don't have the sheer number of videos.

[CrimsonFox]

I'm listening to the live shooting coverage while watching Baby Shark videos. Very surreal

[RainMaker]

��UPDATE:

Over the last few hours, the attacks against Al-Shifa Hospital have dramatically intensified. Our staff at the hospital have reported a catastrophic situation inside just few hours ago https://t.co/FSWagVTYF5.

— MSF International (@MSF) November 11, 2023

[RainMaker]

Seems like they warned the doctors but it's probably not easy moving patients out in such a short time.

The director of Shifa Hospital:
"I received a threat from an Israeli officer that the hospital would be bombed because it is a military zone."
-
It’s not a threat, it’s a warning. You’ve been asked to evacuate for a very long time. Now do it.

— Israel War Room (@IsraelWarRoom) November 10, 2023

[Edward64]

re: the ninja blade chopper, see the reddit thread below. Evidence suggests it was an Israeli illumination round that ...

In a longer version of the video you can see yellow markings on the canister, implying it's an illumination round which has probably burned out and fell down on the unluckiest guy imaginable

Blocked

Pic of the supposed shell casing ...

https://imgur.com/0Xei2op?r


Unfortunately, no acoustic analysis which I'm sure would have proven it was a R9X (source: the acoustic analysis on JDAM that caused the 1 ft crater). But if it was an illumination round, that would mean it was unguided and therefore, wasn't meant to land on that poor guy.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Edward64

re: the ninja blade chopper, see the reddit thread below. Evidence suggests it was an Israeli illumination round that ...



Blocked

Pic of the supposed shell casing ...

https://imgur.com/0Xei2op?r


Unfortunately, no acoustic analysis which I'm sure would have proven it was a R9X (source: the acoustic analysis on JDAM that caused the 1 ft crater). But if it was an illumination round, that would mean it was unguided and therefore, wasn't meant to land on that poor guy.

What a relief that must be to the dude who was chopped in half.

[GrantDawg]

Wow, he reads this message board?

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[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Wow, he reads this message board?

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He's probably either dead, has no internet access, or both. So no, probably not.

[GrantDawg]

Then why bring it up? If there was something we can say that would help him feel better, don't you think we would say it?

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[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Then why bring it up? If there was something we can say that would help him feel better, don't you think we would say it?

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puppies and kittens!

[Edward64]

If Redditors can be believed (and think they can in this case), there's talk/signs about some increased Israeli action against southern Lebanon & Hezbollah.

I'm a little cynical. I'm thinking Bibi may want more escalations so he can (1) stay longer in office and (2) if he crushes Hamas & Hezbollah, maybe put himself in better light when they "talk about change or keep Israeli leadership".

[GrantDawg]

If anyone is still having problems understanding the conflict, I highly recommend watching the latest "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver". He does a fantastic job laying everything on the table. His team does some of the best jobs of research and understandably presenting material on television.

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[Edward64]

I saw it.

6:30 mark pretty much sums it up.

[RainMaker]

At 8:10am local time today, MSF was able to reach a member of our team in Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza after losing contact during relentless attacks by Israeli forces over the past few days.

Here is what our colleague told us while still inside the hospital:… pic.twitter.com/84UDz0Tj99

— Doctors w/o Borders (@MSF_USA) November 13, 2023

[GrantDawg]

BREAKING: White House's John Kirby says the U.S. has its own independent intelligence that shows Hamas and PIJ are using al-Shifa hospital and other hospitals for holding hostages and for military activities

— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) November 14, 2023

[miked]

Wait, so now you are telling me that Hamas is bad? I thought the Jewish ethnostate was just bombing hospitals because they are scummy. But now you are telling me the terrorists with a history of using schools and hospitals for human shields, are in fact doing it again.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by miked

Wait, so now you are telling me that Hamas is bad? I thought the Jewish ethnostate was just bombing hospitals because they are scummy. But now you are telling me the terrorists with a history of using schools and hospitals for human shields, are in fact doing it again.

I know it is hard to believe Hamas would ever do anything dishonest. They seem like such moral, upright World citizens. But let's pretend that they weren't. Let's say they are completely morally bankrupt, with a history of exploiting and killing their own citizens on a regular basis. Let's just suppose they regularly build military command and weapons depots in places like hospitals. Let's just imagine they might funnel displaced people to camp in areas right above their command and control tunnels. Let's get really crazy and say they quite regularly fire rockets and mortars while surrounded by civilians, mostly children, knowing that counter fire is likely to result in many deaths.
How exactly do you fight such opponents? Just let them continue to fire missiles and mortar barrages as well as allow them to send incursions into your civilian homes to rape and murder your civilians so they can continue to kill as many innocents as possible, right? That is of course what any country would do.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, Hamas is bad. You shouldn't bomb innocent people in hospitals and schools because someone from the bad group might be hiding out there. You should also not kill innocent people at a scale we haven't seen in a long time.

I do think Kirby should provide that evidence to the public and UN. Have a feeling that won't be happening though.