Alright boyz, here we go!!! Draft Day Sports: Pro Basketball 2 First Impressions

[SirFozzie]

Other offseason signings:

Boston: Ray Allen resigned (2/16.6M)
Chicago: Josh Childress (4+team option for 5/34)
Charlotte: Resign Raymond Felton (3/23.5)
Miami: Mike Miller (4+Team Option/31.3)
New Jersey: Chris Bosh (5/79) !!!
Utah: Resigns Carlos Boozer (6/101)
Dallas: Resign Brendan Haywood (4+team/31.4)
Atlanta: Allan Iverson (2/11.8) !!!!
Miami: re-sign Udonis Haslem (2/13)
Atlanta: Re-sign Joe Johnson (5/63.5)
Boston: re-sign Paul Pierce (4/35.5)
Dallas: Re-sign Dirk Nowitzki (6/105.7)
Phoenix: Re-sign Amare Stoudemire (5/73.2)
LA: Sign Jermaine O'Neal (2/10)
Denver: Sign Al Harrington (4/23.6)

So... New Jersey gets two of the big three, Allan Iverson would be thanking god for a miracle, and other than that, really not a ton of movement elsewhere.

[Gary Gorski]

Iverson may need a decline in ratings - NJ should be a nice team with Harris, Terrence Williams, LeBron, Bosh and Lopez (plus their draftee)

[SlyBelle1]

I have been playing around with the demo and seems really nice. Only reason I haven't pulled the trigger yet is basketball is probably my least favorite sports, but I do love management sport sims so this may find its way onto my hard drive at some point.

I do have a question. I like how you can choose to be the coach or GM, really provides good options. However, I have a question about only being the GM. When you do that, seems you are still given coaching ratings for some reason. If you go to the main screen, you'll always see you as the GM with these ratings. Just curious why a GM would have coaching ratings and do they play only role if you are just a GM?

Thanks!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

I have been playing around with the demo and seems really nice. Only reason I haven't pulled the trigger yet is basketball is probably my least favorite sports, but I do love management sport sims so this may find its way onto my hard drive at some point.

I do have a question. I like how you can choose to be the coach or GM, really provides good options. However, I have a question about only being the GM. When you do that, seems you are still given coaching ratings for some reason. If you go to the main screen, you'll always see you as the GM with these ratings. Just curious why a GM would have coaching ratings and do they play only role if you are just a GM?

Thanks!

In case you want to fire your coach and assign yourself as head coach/GM. If you're just a GM then your head coaching ratings won't play any role.

[SlyBelle1]

Thanks for the quick response and seems reasonable!

[HoosFan]

Have people simmed 15-20 years out, past the point all the included players (Kevin Durant, John Wall, Lebron, etc) have retired?

Are there still dominant players that are a standard deviation or two above even good players, like a Lebron/Kobe/Durant, or is the distribution of talent more homogenous?

Also in the draft, do guys picked in the second half of the 1st round and the 2nd round ever become legitimite players? In the first version it always seemed like the these guys were worthless throughout their careers. I don't just mean that they weren't 20ppg scorers or 10+ rebound guys. Not only don't I recall "gems in the rough" (whether diamonds or a slightly lesser but still valuable jewel) but very few if any late 1st rounders or second rounders even found there way to rosters via free agency after their rookie contracts were up.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by HoosFan

Have people simmed 15-20 years out, past the point all the included players (Kevin Durant, John Wall, Lebron, etc) have retired?

Are there still dominant players that are a standard deviation or two above even good players, like a Lebron/Kobe/Durant, or is the distribution of talent more homogenous?

Also in the draft, do guys picked in the second half of the 1st round and the 2nd round ever become legitimite players? In the first version it always seemed like the these guys were worthless throughout their careers. I don't just mean that they weren't 20ppg scorers or 10+ rebound guys. Not only don't I recall "gems in the rough" (whether diamonds or a slightly lesser but still valuable jewel) but very few if any late 1st rounders or second rounders even found there way to rosters via free agency after their rookie contracts were up.

Isn't that historically accurate though?

I bet Gary could tell us what the wash-out % of 2nd rounders in the real NBA is, and I suspect he's setup DDSPB to be darn close to that.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by HoosFan

Have people simmed 15-20 years out, past the point all the included players (Kevin Durant, John Wall, Lebron, etc) have retired?

Are there still dominant players that are a standard deviation or two above even good players, like a Lebron/Kobe/Durant, or is the distribution of talent more homogenous?

Also in the draft, do guys picked in the second half of the 1st round and the 2nd round ever become legitimite players? In the first version it always seemed like the these guys were worthless throughout their careers. I don't just mean that they weren't 20ppg scorers or 10+ rebound guys. Not only don't I recall "gems in the rough" (whether diamonds or a slightly lesser but still valuable jewel) but very few if any late 1st rounders or second rounders even found there way to rosters via free agency after their rookie contracts were up.

I had discussed this with him earlier in this thread. He was looking for input on this and more importantly hard evidence.

[DaddyTorgo]

fuck you guys. i need to buy this game.

[Coffee Warlord]

Gary, put the game on sale at or around christmas time, so I can add it to my list. (I need low priced stuff on the list - the guy who has me this year on the wife's side of the family has very little money).

SCREW YOUR PROFITS, DO IT FOR ME!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Gary, put the game on sale at or around christmas time, so I can add it to my list. (I need low priced stuff on the list - the guy who has me this year on the wife's side of the family has very little money).

SCREW YOUR PROFITS, DO IT FOR ME!

self christmas-present?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

self christmas-present?

Hell, like I have the self-discipline to wait that long anyway.

[jbergey22]

You wont regret it. Plus Id like some help convincing Gary to tweek the player generator. It would help if you two were on the case with me

You get a unique experience every time as well. The first game I played Wade and James went to New Jersey, Bosh went to Sacramento. New Jersey won it 3 straight years from 2012-2014. In the other game Wade stayed in Miami, James stayed in Cleveland and the world was a happy place.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hehe

[DaddyTorgo]

My self-control is wavering. Might pull the trigger tonight.

[TroyF]

Who is this Lebron James you speak of? Let me just do a quick search for him.

Oh. . . He's the 1 star, 1 potential guy making max money in Miami.

Sucks that his ability deserted him so fast. Wonder how that happened.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Who is this Lebron James you speak of? Let me just do a quick search for him.

Oh. . . He's the 1 star, 1 potential guy making max money in Miami.

Sucks that his ability deserted him so fast. Wonder how that happened.

Hahaha

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

My self-control is wavering. Might pull the trigger tonight.

You're going to do is soon. May as well be now

[DaddyTorgo]

hehe

[Gary Gorski]

BUY IT NOW!!!!!

And fwiw I have started analysis of a 5 year league and will begin my tweaks in the 1.1 patch

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

BUY IT NOW!!!!!

And fwiw I have started analysis of a 5 year league and will begin my tweaks in the 1.1 patch

let a man finish his taco dinner.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

BUY IT NOW!!!!!

I don't take orders from you old man!

[SirFozzie]

This is why I miss the handsoff mode, it would be really nice to do a couple "Lifetime" sims, like SkyDog did with OTP, and see what variances it has. Five years is nice, but 25 or so (enough that you have 10 years or so of draft picks coming in, playing their career, and retiring), would be ideal

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

This is why I miss the handsoff mode, it would be really nice to do a couple "Lifetime" sims, like SkyDog did with OTP, and see what variances it has. Five years is nice, but 25 or so (enough that you have 10 years or so of draft picks coming in, playing their career, and retiring), would be ideal

when i buy the game over here i'll make the sacrifice of doing that

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

BUY IT NOW!!!!!

And fwiw I have started analysis of a 5 year league and will begin my tweaks in the 1.1 patch

I agree with the above posters, seems confusing to me to do 5 years. Would make much more sense to me to run 20 years where all of the real players will be naturally purged from the database.

[korme]

No one likes the idea of starting with a roster file from the 80's?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by korme

No one likes the idea of starting with a roster file from the 80's?

Sure - that'd be awesome. Who's going to make one?

[Gary Gorski]

Well 5 years is 5 years worth of draft classes and the question really is how are the generated players falling in line with a similar crop of players (rookie-4 yr experience) from the initial database and the data sent is very useful for that. Sure 20 years would be a larger data sample but there are some significant differences I can see from the 5 years alone that may cause some of the mentioned issues. It was mentioned that there were no great scorers - scoring rating I am finding is actually too high on average but so is blocks and steals and it seems FG shooting is too low for guards which would certainly lend itself to the scoring issues mentioned.

Mind you the "issues" mentioned aren't like the stats are way off but they're not dead on either and I want to tweak until they are and any data is helpful for that.

[korme]

Just playin around with a Russian league team, I know all the ratings are jacked up so you're not playing with 1's and 2's. But nearly every person on my team has FGI and FGJ at a 7 or higher. Maybe some more disparity would be nice.

Also, I signed Kenny Thomas and figured he'd get a ratings boost. Nope, he now looks like he's the 13th best player on some crappy Russian squad.
__________________

[Capital]

I just purchased the game and updated a bunch of the logos. I appear to be missing where I can change the names of the teams. Can anyone help?

[SirFozzie]

Gary: Question, do you have the rule where if a foul is commited with 14 or more seconds on the clock (non-shooting obviously), it stays where it is, and if there's 13 or less seconds on the clock, it only resets to 14? I can't tell, but I don't think that's being modeled correctly

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Capital

I just purchased the game and updated a bunch of the logos. I appear to be missing where I can change the names of the teams. Can anyone help?

Access data base or on the team page, individually, apparently

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Gary: Question, do you have the rule where if a foul is commited with 14 or more seconds on the clock (non-shooting obviously), it stays where it is, and if there's 13 or less seconds on the clock, it only resets to 14? I can't tell, but I don't think that's being modeled correctly

Should be - if you see it working improperly for sure please LMK and I will fix it immediately

[DaddyTorgo]

Dynamite drafted team:

PG: Johnny Flynn
SG: Tyreke Evens
SF: Paul George
PF: Andrea Bargnani
C: Omar Samhan

Bench:
Yi Jianlin
J.J. Reddick
Grevis Vasquez
Travis Outlaw
Ryan Richards (Rookie bigman from England)
Darrington Hobson
Sharron Collins
Donyell Marshall (FA signee)

5 guys in double figures led by Flynn with 27, then Tyreke Evens with 20.

[SirFozzie]

One other suggestion, Gary. Figure a way to either give the Euro teams nicknames, or double the name "Barcelona Barcelona"..

Because looking at the PBP, and seeing it say "Basketball 89, Basketball 75" (since all teams are Barcelona Basketball or Badalona Basketball) is confusing as all get out

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by korme

No one likes the idea of starting with a roster file from the 80's?

Very interested, the best part of DDS:1 IMO was starting a historical league and putting all the draft classes together and watching history play out. The 95 roster was very cool but one starting in the 80's would be even better.

If you are looking for any help let me know although I seem to be cursed with making roster files for DDS.

[Izulde]

La Tulipe had a 1976 roster file with draft files for DDSPB 1, but unfortunately it had numerous problems and was incomplete.

I don't recall what year the NBA had 22 teams, but I think it would be awesome if somebody created a roster set for that year and subsequent draft files.

With the historical expansion built in from 22-30 (and the potential for 32), it would make for an excellent dynasty and MP league setup.

[Groundhog]

Yah, it was the 1976-77 that the NBA expanded to 22 teams.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yah, it was the 1976-77 that the NBA expanded to 22 teams.

More specifically, it was the year of the merger. So the Nuggets, Nets, Pacers and Spurs arrive with full rosters from the ABA. Players like Artis Gilmore and Julius Erving arrive in the dispersal draft of the abandoned teams (If I remember correctly).

From a game engine perspective, the 3-point shot did become the rule until the 79-80 season. The frequency of the shots was much, much less than today's rates. That would be hard to model.

I've tried to make late 1960's to early 1970's rosters for board games, and it simply is too hard and too much guess-work/trial and error to use today's 3-point shooting rates and actual scoring averages, plus my recollection of who could make long shots. Jerry Lucas being a prime example of a player who late in his career scored a lot of long two's that likely would have been three's under today's rules.

[MacroGuru]

This is a purchase that will happen on Friday for me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

This is a purchase that will happen on Friday for me.

Question - as far as talking to players with their playing style - any reason why I can't tell a guy to look to pass more?

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Question - as far as talking to players with their playing style - any reason why I can't tell a guy to look to pass more?

Guess I never thought about that - I suppose it could be added

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Guess I never thought about that - I suppose it could be added

It'd be good I suppose - for guards especially.

"Pass More"
"Look to score more" (as the opposite of pass more)

Anything else anyone can think of along those lines?

I only mention it because some of Tyreke Evens' horrid 10/30 shooting nights were driving me crazy. Telling him to drive more seemed to help a bit, but it'd be good to tell him to dish it off more sometimes too.

Let me see...what else might a coach or GM tell a player. Hmm...

[TroyF]

I will not accept Gary adding "look to pass more" unless he adds the Nelson laugh as a sound effect for 85% of the players responses to the request.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I will not accept Gary adding "look to pass more" unless he adds the Nelson laugh as a sound effect for 85% of the players responses to the request.

Haha. Well see that's the beauty of it. If the guy doesn't pass more you can bench him, and risk pissing him off. It gives you that extra level of decision to make - whereas before you might just keep playing the guy or whatever, now you're actually interacting with him and trying to determine what your next move is going to be.

[jbergey22]

Great ideas!

It might be a whole new game by the time Gary gets done listening to us

Its great that you are considering some of these idea's Gary. Perhaps some of us should have just came along for the "open" beta period so this could have been taken care of previously I am sure you are thinking.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Haha. Well see that's the beauty of it. If the guy doesn't pass more you can bench him, and risk pissing him off. It gives you that extra level of decision to make - whereas before you might just keep playing the guy or whatever, now you're actually interacting with him and trying to determine what your next move is going to be.

This is where we need a real world conversation feature.

In real life: "Pass the ball more, son" "Go to hell old man"

In the game "Pass the ball more, son" "Go to hell old man"

In my mind "I want you to look at this leaflet on every Clippers player with potential in the last twenty years. Notice the wide variety of ailments. Knee injuries, kidney problems, heart murmurs, rare diseases. Well, son, you have a lot of potential. If you don't start passing the ball more, you are getting shipped to Clipperland for a second round pick and in addition to playing you'll be the personal slave of Donald Sterling. Read my lips: PASS THE DAMNED BALL"

"Yes sir"

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This is where we need a real world conversation feature.

In real life: "Pass the ball more, son" "Go to hell old man"

In the game "Pass the ball more, son" "Go to hell old man"

In my mind "I want you to look at this leaflet on every Clippers player with potential in the last twenty years. Notice the wide variety of ailments. Knee injuries, kidney problems, heart murmurs, rare diseases. Well, son, you have a lot of potential. If you don't start passing the ball more, you are getting shipped to Clipperland for a second round pick and in addition to playing you'll be the personal slave of Donald Sterling. Read my lips: PASS THE DAMNED BALL"


"Yes sir"

Love it!

[bhsw77]

jbergey -- I'm sure Gary will forgive you if you learn your lesson and pre-order the next game he makes .

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I will not accept Gary adding "look to pass more" unless he adds the Nelson laugh as a sound effect for 85% of the players responses to the request.

Actually the "no" responses do carry a negative consequence in the game - I will just make this one more severe. Like "not only hell no, how about I shoot even more". I agree that I could not see this going over well with 85% of the league and I will model that appropriately.