Werewolf XXVI: The Thing - GAME OVER! THINGS WIN!!!

[Raiders Army]

RIP Qwik. I assume that was Barkeep's kill. Hmmmm....I guess since there was no description of a conversion, nothing happened last night and we can trust Jeebs?

[Coffee Warlord]

As we still have pretty much nothing to go on, and I think, at this point, a vote on Jeeber is a waste (we have to clear some more people first - we can't just do repeat votes on the same person)....

There are a few people I fear as "wolves" always. I want him either cleared or killed.

Vote Raiders Army

[path12]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

RIP Qwik. I assume that was Barkeep's kill. Hmmmm....I guess since there was no description of a conversion, nothing happened last night and we can trust Jeebs?

I'm just assuming there is a conversion nightly. I don't see why it would be spelled out in the commentary.

[dubb93]

UUHHHHHH....

Vote JeeberD

[Schmidty]

What is everyone's opinion about the weekend schedule? Should we have the vote deadline tonight, or monday? If we end it tonight, then night actions will be due by tomorrow morning, and Day 3 will extend through monday.

[st.cronin]

VOTE DUBB

He's who I would have tried to convert were I a thing. I would not have gone after Jeebs, since, if there is an 'herbalist' role, he would have been the most logical one to protect.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

As we still have pretty much nothing to go on, and I think, at this point, a vote on Jeeber is a waste (we have to clear some more people first - we can't just do repeat votes on the same person)....

There are a few people I fear as "wolves" always. I want him either cleared or killed.

Vote Raiders Army

Why fear me? I'm practically nothing.

Anyhow, I vote for ending the voting tonight. I'm not sure what to make of dubb and st. cronin's votes without a little further analysis.

[hoopsguy]

I'm worried about people being around between noon and the deadline today, in light of Good Friday/Easter. I'm fine either way, but hoping that if the deadline is tonight that we have good representation this evening.

I'll be out for the day sometime between 6-7 EST and not back until Sunday.

I was hoping there would be something in the description that would indicate if a conversion took place.

Without the benefit of that, I would like to have Barkeep pop in to confirm that he was responsible for killing Qwikshot. If so, then perhaps he has some idea if he killed a human or a Thing. Qwik is one of the people that was a little higher on my suspicious list than average by the end of the day.

[hoopsguy]

CW - is your vote for Raiders based upon him as an original Thing or based on believing he was converted last night?

[hoopsguy]

Inside you find a large black mass of burning flesh. At first, you assume it's a dog, but when you get closer you see that although having almost been reduce to cinders, there are what resemble the arms and legs of a human

OK, so since there was nothing here that looked like non-human parts I would initially suspect that Qwik was human.

Why would Qwik be in the kennel? Are there any roles from the movie that seem to click for anyone with this?

[JeeberD]

Weekends are always busy for me, I would prefer if we suspended the game until Monday after tonight...


Vote dubb

I know I'm clean and I think the Thing(s) would know better than to go after me so soon. His vote for me seems kinda wasteful...

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

CW - is your vote for Raiders based upon him as an original Thing or based on believing he was converted last night?

To be honest? Neither. I'm shooting in the dark. Since people don't die this game, and continually become Things, it's REAL rough.

My only logic for voting Raiders is simply what I'm stating: Raiders is a quality player, I've played with him as a wolf, and know he's good at it. I'd like to see if he's human.

If he's cleared then converted, then, like everyone, his posting style will likely change.

Hi Raiders.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Why would Qwik be in the kennel? Are there any roles from the movie that seem to click for anyone with this?

It's been a long time since I've seen the movie, but I remember there being one dude who was in charge of the dogs and was very protective of them. Of course, I think he was one of the first ones to be converted...

[Coffee Warlord]

Btw hoops, ordinarily you'd be the one I'd shoot for first, but I think you're on the level this time around.

[Raiders Army]

I'm gonna rent this movie tonight.

[hoopsguy]

Jeebs, I think it is safe to say that he wasn't converted last night - perhaps an original thing, but not much in the description to make me lean that way.

Coffee - based on Day 1 posts, I don't think that Raiders started as a Thing.

Jeebs (directed at you since you are around and have seen the movie) - do the conversions in the movies involve an audible component? Or are they silent, giving the other scientists no clue when a conversion has taken place? Or was it some mixture of both? Just trying to understand if there is a game mechanic that I should be looking for in Schmidty's posts to understand if a conversion took place.

We've been making the assumption that they get a conversion every night. I'm going to be surprised at the end of the game if that is the case, unless the scientists have some pretty potent roles to help combat this. I think it is more likely they have a set number of conversions over the course of the game - perhaps one on even numbered days (starting with Day 2) or on even numbered days? If a scenario like this is the case then it would make sense that there was nothing in the description last night to indicate a conversion.

[hoopsguy]

Coffee, I am "on the level" so far - depending on how conversions work I can't make any long-term promises ... but I'm definitely trying to advance the scientist cause for as long as the Things leave me alone.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

We've been making the assumption that they get a conversion every night. I'm going to be surprised at the end of the game if that is the case, unless the scientists have some pretty potent roles to help combat this. I think it is more likely they have a set number of conversions over the course of the game - perhaps one on even numbered days (starting with Day 2) or on even numbered days? If a scenario like this is the case then it would make sense that there was nothing in the description last night to indicate a conversion.

Didn't I say that last page?

Anyhow, I think the conversions were silent.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Weekends are always busy for me, I would prefer if we suspended the game until Monday after tonight...


Vote dubb

I know I'm clean and I think the Thing(s) would know better than to go after me so soon. His vote for me seems kinda wasteful...

I rock with this.


Vote Dubb


-Anxiety

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Jeebs (directed at you since you are around and have seen the movie) - do the conversions in the movies involve an audible component? Or are they silent, giving the other scientists no clue when a conversion has taken place? Or was it some mixture of both? Just trying to understand if there is a game mechanic that I should be looking for in Schmidty's posts to understand if a conversion took place.

From what I remember there weren't really any clues. I remember they caught The Thing in the act of converting one guy and he was lying on the floor covered in goo with tentacles writhing over his body. But catching that was pure luck, they just happened to go into a storage room where it was happening.

But like I said earlier, it's been YEARS since I last saw the movie, so my memory could possibly be faulty.

[dubb93]

Vote me, it will just clear me and make for another wasted vote. If I was a thing last night, which I wasn't, I would have converted Jeebs. Why? Look at how the voting has swinged since I voted for him.

"They wouldn't be dumb enough to go after Jeebs." Of course they would on night 1. He was the only guy that was cleared to that point. With that said, if you guys think it is best to clear me, keep your votes on me. I'd be more than happy to be cleared.

[Qwikshot]

I love that movie...sorry I'm dead.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Vote me, it will just clear me and make for another wasted vote. If I was a thing last night, which I wasn't, I would have converted Jeebs. Why? Look at how the voting has swinged since I voted for him.

"They wouldn't be dumb enough to go after Jeebs." Of course they would on night 1. He was the only guy that was cleared to that point. With that said, if you guys think it is best to clear me, keep your votes on me. I'd be more than happy to be cleared.

I wasn't thinking it would be DUMB to go after jeebs, just that it would be a higher percentage play to go after somebody else. If there was a herbalist in the game, he's either going to protect jeebs or not. If not, who is he going to protect? Lots of good candidates - it's a better play to pick somebody other than jeebs, since we'd have to get real lucky to pick exactly the right guy.

I assume the badguys don't know either way if there's an herbalist or not.

All that said, I don't like the mini-bandwagon.

[Schmidty]

Ok, I'm going to delay the day 2 vote until Monday night because of the holiday weekend.

[Qwikshot]

http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~vampire/thing/thing.htm

This is a brush up on the movie. It evens has the short story in full.

[Raiders Army]

I'm glad the vote got delayed now. Going to watch the movie in a little bit.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~vampire/thing/thing.htm

This is a brush up on the movie. It evens has the short story in full.

I knew I mangled it in certain places, but it wouldn't have worked if it was exactly like the movie anyway (I think).

[JeeberD]

Oh hell yeah, great find, Qwik!

[Schmidty]

One rule clarification: In the case of a tie vote, no testing will occur that day.

[dubb93]

:sigh: I'm getting tired of the bad weather this year. We are under a tornado warning for about the 5th time in the last 2 weeks.

[dubb93]

That was a pretty mean storm. We missed the most of it, but about a mile away there was 100MPH winds. Still it looked like we got about golf size hail and the power went out for a couple of minutes.

[Blade6119]

Vote Barkeep49

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

RIP Qwik. I assume that was Barkeep's kill. Hmmmm....I guess since there was no description of a conversion, nothing happened last night and we can trust Jeebs?

To explain my vote for barkeep, we know of only one thing that happened last night. Qwikshot was killed. Barkeep called he would kill someone, and he says he knows he killed a thing. So either barkeep is a thing and lying, or barkeep has a special role and in my mind becomes conversion target#1 last night...id say in regards to dubb, raiders, and hoops...we know at least 2, prob. all 3 were villagers yesterday. Lets find the initial bad guys and work from there. I see it as either we clear him and find out through that qwik was bad and use that to find the others, or hes bad and we use that to find the others.

[Barkeep49]

Fair enough. Test me and we find that I'm innocent which I like. However we don't nail a thing. As we now have a good amount of time I will gladly

Unvote Hoops

[Barkeep49]

To bump this:

I could go and look, but to try and generate some activity who was on our cleared list from the "brilliant" quote from day 1?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

To bump this:

I could go and look, but to try and generate some activity who was on our cleared list from the "brilliant" quote from day 1?

I went back and tried to give the first post by every player after the reveal of the topic(and the two comments by swaggs and myself that triggered the topic) that addressed in any form the topic of the brilliant. At the bottom, i listed players that posted but with no mention of brilliant. Post #s are included for reference, and i hope this meets your requirements. Its interesting, as some of it seems 100% rock solid to me(dubb knowing the simple part that hadnt been said, raiders saying he trusted me on the brilliant thing before anyone brought it up), while others are a bit flakey and interesting. Qwikshot, who is now dead, is in red. Barkeep, can you confirm you killed qwikshot and he was a bad guy? Havent heared you make the leap from im going to kill, i did kill, i killed a thing, and finally the last leap i havent seen of i killed qwikshot, a thing.

#107

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Checking in and watching things closely.

BTW, Brilliant idea for a Werewolf game. Well done Schmidty.

#110

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Another game, another time for you all to be in reverance of how brilliant i am

#174

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I have a feeling about Blade that he's a good guy (again). hoops I have no idea about. FWIW, I feel about as good about Blade as I feel as bad about saldana. Blade said that he was brilliant like me. saldana said he was a regular scientist which rang a little strange to me.

As it stands right now, I'm not changing my vote. I'm out until after Survivor (it's over 9 EST).

#180

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Raiders, if we are coming out with the "brilliant" bit then you actually missed someone who said it - Swaggs.


I had seen this when I posted in #143 but didn't want to bring this out.



If you read between the lines, you can construe that I had some reads on who might be a scientist and it was because of the use of the word brilliant, which was found in my scientist description.

This type of hint is becoming the new "villager secret code" which I don't really think is 100% in the spirit of the game. I know that in the next game I run that I will make deliberate efforts to negate this type of play for all parties.

#183

Originally Posted by dubb93

Actually I think this hurts you a little in my book Hoopsguy. If you don't quite get the "brilliant" blurb, that leads me to believe you didn't get a simliar PM to what some of the rest of us got. It refers to us as simple, but brilliant . I didn't want to bring that up, but since it is already out in the open I see no problem with it.

What you quoted has nothing to do with that.

#185

Originally Posted by saldana

could you at least try to put comments into context....blade never said he was a brillian scientist...in fact, he has never even posted the standard "scientist checking in" statement, brilliant or otherwise. all he said was that this game is another opportunity for us to bask in his brilliance.

so then, everyone that didnt say "brilliant" in their check in posts must be a thing....that means that anyone that said "regular", "clean", "simple" or just "scientist" must be a thing.....outstanding logic...by this reasoning, the following is a list of the things:

tanglewood - just said scientist
mckerney - just said scientist
hoops - just said scientist
wfu - said clean scientist
jeebs - said he was clean
path - said he was a thespian
saldana - said he was regular


this doesnt even account for the people that didnt say anything, used the word brilliant in another form, or didnt check in at all....nice logic...if we all learned anything from the Lost game, its that the DM should have sent out different PM's to everyone to stop this from happening...i know i did for starwars...every pm was different.

#190

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

unvote hoops
vote cronin

At hoops request; I think you are reading far too into it...I mean, that's a lot of scrutinzing to catch brilliant and regular scientist...

#247

Originally Posted by path12

As for the brilliant thing in the PM's, I didn't mention it because I'm in the camp that it's a little unbalancing. The main issue in the game as I see it is that once someone is cleared they can become converted that night.

I think the key is in the double vote days. For instance, if we can bag a thing on the first vote I'd go for one of the cleared people on the second in order to stop the spread.

#248

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I also didn't put anything in my first post as I see it as a kind of meta-gaming. No tthe more serious kind which I think people should be removed from playing for, but a slightly grey area over gaming ethics if it should be allowed IMHO.

Of course another reason is that I don't think it's all that usefull as major proponents want to make out. Firstly, it's quite possible that the Things can latch onto a group early on, an expereinced player could pick up on certain phrases or words and drop them into his post. Then we have 'cleared' a Thing for nothing more than doing a good job of straightowardly imitating someone else (I believe that a few games ago Blade complained that a wolf, AlanT IIRC, did this, simply imitating his posting style and use of phrase, thus Blade cleared him). Another is that it's not necessarily true that we all got the same PM, nor can we be certain that everything in our PM was not sent to the Things also. Of course, if the Things got the info in our PM then it all goes to hell as they jump in the 'cleared' group and all of us are pretty much walking blind. In that not unlikely scenario it's more helpful to [i]not[/i ] mention PMs at all.

WVU, CW, Mckerney, St. Cronin, Anxiety, Jeeber, Barkeep, and Qwikshot by my account made comments after the brilliant part was revealed that made no mention of the brilliant part in a PM or about the topic at all.

[Raiders Army]

After watching the movie again, this was the best quote, which sums up WW games :

I know I'm human. And if you were all these things, then you'd just attack me right now, so some of you are still human. This thing doesn't want to show itself, it wants to hide inside an imitation. It'll fight if it has to, but it's vulnerable out in the open. If it takes us over, then it has no more enemies, nobody left to kill it. And then it's won.

From the movie, I can't discern if someone would make a noise if they got converted. When the dogs were being converted, they barked and whined and people heard them; however, when Garry got attacked at the end of the movie, MacReady didn't hear anything.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

After watching the movie again, this was the best quote, which sums up WW games :



From the movie, I can't discern if someone would make a noise if they got converted. When the dogs were being converted, they barked and whined and people heard them; however, when Garry got attacked at the end of the movie, MacReady didn't hear anything.

That's because the Thing had his hand over the mouth.

[Barkeep49]

So as far as I am concerned that means that Swaggs, Blade, Raiders, and Hoops are unlikely Day 1 things.

I know Qwikshot was and that I am not, though the rest of you do not know this. We tested JeeberD so he's also not a Day 1 thing.

That leaves:
2. st.cronin
3. tanglewood
6. dubb93
8. path12
9. saldana
12. mckerney
13. Coffee Warlord
14. Anxiety
16. WVUFAN

A 1 in 8 shot isn't so hot, but I don't know where else to go from here.

[hoopsguy]

I think you can take Dubb off of that 'Day 1' list, based on Post #183 (referenced by Blade above).

Also, if we assume that Qwikshot was a Thing, it is important to note that he changed his vote from me to Cronin in Post #190 - this is not reflected in Schmidty's final vote shown in #216.

This makes me more likely to trust Cronin on this list. I accept that it is entirely possible for Qwikshot to have voted for a fellow Thing on Day 1, but he was Vote #3 on him and Jeebs only had four votes. I think the margin was too narrow for that play.

So I think we are narrowing the list to six people.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

That's because the Thing had his hand over the mouth.

Actually, the Thing had its hand in his mouth.
We also don't know what happened to the other black dude with the headband.

[Barkeep49]

Ok I will buy the idea that dubb and cronin should be safe, though by including dubb as safe you become suspicious again, as dubb was hinting at the idea that you didn't really know the code, but simply saw others doing it. I still think there was too little of it for someone to catch it, so for now let's say we have six:
tanglewood
path12
saldana
mckerney
Coffee Warlord
Anxiety
WVUFAN

Let's see what we find when looking at each person's posts:

Tanglewood:
88 - Checks in
159

As a Thing, a clear strategy is to try and get people on their side who are tested early. However, if we then take that to mean that we shouldn't regard testing as accurate then we throw away our only weapon and are down to flying on instinct, so we have to place some faith in the test results at least. I reckon that we will need wither a good slice of luck at a cruical point or a monumental performance from one or two peeps to win this.

161 - Does a supposedly random D1 vote for path
248 - Claims not to have put in brillaint due to metagaming concerns. Further states

Of course another reason is that I don't think it's all that usefull as major proponents want to make out. Firstly, it's quite possible that the Things can latch onto a group early on, an expereinced player could pick up on certain phrases or words and drop them into his post. Then we have 'cleared' a Thing for nothing more than doing a good job of straightowardly imitating someone else (I believe that a few games ago Blade complained that a wolf, AlanT IIRC, did this, simply imitating his posting style and use of phrase, thus Blade cleared him). Another is that it's not necessarily true that we all got the same PM, nor can we be certain that everything in our PM was not sent to the Things also. Of course, if the Things got the info in our PM then it all goes to hell as they jump in the 'cleared' group and all of us are pretty much walking blind. In that not unlikely scenario it's more helpful to not mention PMs at all.

Path
98- Checks in
102 - Responds to CW's path is a lesbian post
106 - Responds to cronin telling him to rent The Fog
160 - Votes cronin for admittedly no reason
247

As for the brilliant thing in the PM's, I didn't mention it because I'm in the camp that it's a little unbalancing. The main issue in the game as I see it is that once someone is cleared they can become converted that night.

I think the key is in the double vote days. For instance, if we can bag a thing on the first vote I'd go for one of the cleared people on the second in order to stop the spread.

253 - Doesn't believe conversion would be spelled out in nightly write-ups

Saldana
112 - Checks in as a "regular" scientist. This is two posts after Blade saying how brilliant he is. Also says he'd have voted for dubb if Schmidty allowed it.
134 - Votes for dubb as a "no brainer"
135 - Talks about the possiblity of running the table fairly quickly
136 - Replies to dubb's vote: "friggin amateur!"
141 - Comments on slow day, asking where blade and hoops are
146 - In response to raiders:
[quote]interesting, i always enjoy watching who the first person to put a second vote on someone is, especially iirc, you are usually one to avoid having your vote be significant on day one.[/i]
171 - Believes some have immunity from becoming Things. Thinks there are likely 2 and no more then 3 Things
185 - Responding to further pressure from Raiders:

could you at least try to put comments into context....blade never said he was a brillian scientist...in fact, he has never even posted the standard "scientist checking in" statement, brilliant or otherwise. all he said was that this game is another opportunity for us to bask in his brilliance.

so then, everyone that didnt say "brilliant" in their check in posts must be a thing....that means that anyone that said "regular", "clean", "simple" or just "scientist" must be a thing.....outstanding logic...by this reasoning, the following is a list of the things:

tanglewood - just said scientist
mckerney - just said scientist
hoops - just said scientist
wfu - said clean scientist
jeebs - said he was clean
path - said he was a thespian
saldana - said he was regular


this doesnt even account for the people that didnt say anything, used the word brilliant in another form, or didnt check in at all....nice logic...if we all learned anything from the Lost game, its that the DM should have sent out different PM's to everyone to stop this from happening...i know i did for starwars...every pm was different.

172 - Says he has no problem being tested
202 - Asks if I am in the game
243 -

1. i like the idea of looking for the orginal first, this is what i was talking about trying to do about 150 posts ago when i said we could run the table on the things in one night, depending on how many there are

2. regarding my reaction to RA,vanyone that has played enough of these games with me will see a familiarity with what i had to say and how i said it...the logic was deeply flawed, and i cant stand people basing their decisions on flawed logic...it irritates the crap out of me, not to mention that outing something like that on the first day is a bad move...iirc, the survivors kept it under their hats for 3 days and it worked alot more in their favor.

3. i will be out most of the day, driving to baltimore.

245 - Meaningless response about deadlines

mckerney
89 - Checks in as scientist
154 - Votes for CW for calling someone a TO lover (as in Terrell Owens)
242

We do have the ability to test a second person if we catch a thing, so maybe the best idea for now would be to try and go for an original at first, then a possible convert if we get one.

Coffee Warlord
97 - Asks not to be tested since he's afraid of needles
99 - Says Path is a lesbian and so we should kill him
101 - Reminds that it's Night 0 so no vote
104 - In response to Jeeber commenting on the needles says we shouldn't listen to Cowboys fans
139 - Votes for Jeeber for secretly loving TO
156 -

Which is also the problem. Do we waste votes the next day on people cleared, or do we go after others? Rough.

162 - Hopes that that we have ways of clearing people besides votes
169 - Wonders how a day's second vote will work
170 - Realizes that second vote is only if we get a Thing
207 - Meaningless
208 - Votes for me to see if I'm on the up and up
209 - Realizes vote for me doesn't count as it's after deadline
234 - Says it would hugely suck if I kill him
244 - Schedule question
252 -

As we still have pretty much nothing to go on, and I think, at this point, a vote on Jeeber is a waste (we have to clear some more people first - we can't just do repeat votes on the same person)....

There are a few people I fear as "wolves" always. I want him either cleared or killed.

Vote Raiders Army

262 - Says vote for Raiders is shot in the dark and is out of respect for his previous wolfing.
264 - Thinks hoops is on the level

Anxiety
85 - Says is first game and so will "stand back"
91 - Comments on the stupid ritual (my words not his) of claiming to be a villager regardless of actual role
115 - Officially declares he's not a thing
130 - Can't make sense of post, though it's in response to Blade telling him how to vote
132 - Votes for Tanglewood for being too eager
133 - Deleted and reposted something (I think it's Tangle's vote)
269 - Votes for dubb, following Jeeber's logic

WVU
94 - Clean scientist
114 - Says all non-Patriots' fans are things
149 - Votes for Jeeber because he was beating him in Civ4
189 -

As someone else has said, this game is heavily slanted to the Things, since no one will truly ever be safe. I just have the nagging feeling we're gonna wind up testing the same people over and over under the assumption that the Things will infect those pronounced "clean" on the prior night's test. We have no way to prounouncing anyone "safe", unlike prior games.

Tricky game. This is gonna be tough.

[Abe Sargent]

My name should be bold too.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

How are you guys not violating this?

Originally Posted by Schmidty

THERE WILL BE NO MORE DISCUSSION OF PMs IN ANY FORM IN THIS GAME.

I thought you guys would know that, since it was considered dishonorable after the Lost game.

-Anxiety

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

How are you guys not violating this?






-Anxiety

no kidding

I mean, wow ...

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

How are you guys not violating this?






-Anxiety

Agreed, though I think it'll wind up doing us more harm than good.


Also, I must apologize for my lack of posts so far in this game. Typing hasn't been real easy for me lately as I had injured my elbow a week ago and yesterday found out that it is broken, leaving it now immobalized in a sling. Will try to be as active as possible, though probably won't be as much as I usually would.

[st.cronin]

I'm sorry, how do we know Qwik was a Thing?

[hoopsguy]

I don't think you can undo what is already done - the posts that were already out there are now in the public domain. I took his statement to imply that we should not discuss anything in the original PMs or any PMs going forward that has not been released. For example, if I wanted to try and validate myself as a scientist, there are potentially other words in the role PM that I could post to do that. That won't be happening; Schmidty has made it crystal clear that this would be unacceptable behavior.

Discussing the posts in the thread (not private PMs) is part and parcel with werewolf games and there is really no point in trying to do analysis without making this part of the game.

[hoopsguy]

We don't - Barkeep has said that he was but I haven't seen anything in the wrap-up message from Schmidty (post #250) that indicates that he was.

So it comes down to risk analysis - do you think that Barkeep is a Thing and is lying? Or do you think that he is telling the truth? Personally, I don't see a very positive risk/reward for Barkeep to be lying at this stage in the game but it probably makes sense to discuss this.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - post #299 was a response to this question by Cronin

I'm sorry, how do we know Qwik was a Thing?