Werewolf XLVI - Sun And Shadow (Game Thread) - Game Over! Cultists win! - Page 6

hoopsguy · 04-30-2007, 10:05 PM

I'm hoping not to be converted - it happens with shocking regularity in games with that mechanic. And it sucks flipping sides after putting in some time/energy with your initial team.

Games I've been converted:
X-Com
Star Wars
Thing
Spawn 2
Them Gays

So if the threat of being watched/viewed/whatever keeps the Shadow away for an evening or three then I'm all for it.

Joe · 04-30-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Actually, 50% or more (rather than more than 50%) is automatic. No details on what happens tonight if they go for different people, as both would be automatic but there's a one conversion cap.

*automatic if the person can be found and is not protected

Mr. Wednesday · 04-30-2007, 10:37 PM

Right.

ImTheCrew · 04-30-2007, 10:44 PM

ahh good i thought i was out, so could someone help me? ive been cleansed??

Joe · 04-30-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImTheCrew

ahh good i thought i was out, so could someone help me? ive been cleansed??

you lose your magical role but still have a mundane role, if you had any before. and can still vote, etc.

SnDvls · 04-30-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

you lose your magical role but still have a mundane role, if you had any before. and can still vote, etc.

also you can use any item you have or find...so you might want to just search for items tonight and since you are cleansed any help in what you find could help, unless it is too powerful in the wrong hands if stolen.

Swaggs · 04-30-2007, 10:54 PM

So, did the Shadow/Sun members know who one another were today or not?

I'm bouncing around, in my head, how that may have affected mercy/punishment voting (particularly late ones).

Joe · 04-30-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

So, did the Shadow/Sun members know who one another were today or not?

I'm bouncing around, in my head, how that may have affected mercy/punishment voting (particularly late ones).

Unknown about the sun members. The role description says that shadow members can anonymously speak to each other, and can reveal their identities if they chose. So unknown again. Yes, this is a real informative post, I know.

SnDvls · 04-30-2007, 11:33 PM

you're just trying to build up your post count here so you aren't seen as a quiet one right

ntndeacon · 04-30-2007, 11:44 PM

I would doubt they would reveal who they are. remember someone will turn eventually. and they are not goingto want the cleansed person to know who they are. Because most often the cleansed will tell.

SnDvls · 05-01-2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I would doubt they would reveal who they are. remember someone will turn eventually. and they are not goingto want the cleansed person to know who they are. Because most often the cleansed will tell.

not only that, but the cleared will have become cleansed and thus swithced sides and victory conditions so it only makes sense to try and win and take down the shadows.

Schmidty · 05-01-2007, 12:54 AM

While reading things before the vote (see my last post), I got into a huge argument with my wife. It went on for awhile, and then we made up and went to dinner, and stuff. I'm just now back to my computer.

I apologize for pulling yet another Schmidty.

Peregrine · 05-01-2007, 04:02 AM

You wake up the next morning, unsure what will happen next. No one is dead on the floor, the danger you're facing is far more insidious than that.

This morning's Count, the seer informs you, is 3. Three Shadow players are among you.

Chief Rum · 05-01-2007, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Voting

Each day all players can vote publicly for whoever they want, and can change their votes as many times as they want. This is called the name vote. They also must vote publicly whether they want to punish the person who receives the most votes, or show mercy. This is a separate vote, called the punishment vote, and will apply to whoever gets the most votes! All name votes must be received by 7:30 pm EST, however, there is a small grace period until 8 pm EST, where anyone can change their punishment votes ONLY. This will allow players to make an informed decision knowing who the victim will be. If you won't be around for that time of day, make sure to get your punishment vote in before then!

Ties in the name vote can be broken by particular roles or magical items. If the tie is not broken, no punishment happens that day.

Ties in the punishment vote end in a result of mercy.

There seemed to be some confusion about ties today. I thought I would bold this part form the rules.

Chief Rum · 05-01-2007, 05:07 AM

Outside of getting someone from Shadow or perhaps Sun, I'm not sure we could have done too much better with our Day One cleansing. It's a relatively non-critical role, it seems, on a relatively quiet WW player (historically).

It does lead me to think of one possible villager initiative we could use if the night actions don't point us toward a Shadow or good cleansing candidate. Perhaps we should aim to "cleanse" an active and influential WW player to start a COT. This player would necessarily have to have what is considered to be a low priority role (or better yet, one that helps Shadow--what if ImTheCrew was considered such a villager, and had also been the Artificer? We would have done the village two favors then by cleansing ITC).

I don't know if we should actively do this sort of thing, but I think it's something to consider at least. I think if we did it, it should be on volunteer basis only. Only each individual player will know if he has the time and has had the past WW history to be an active and helpful villager, and he will also know if his role is a critical one or noncritical one.

I would advise not making public recommendations of others who would be a good option. Not only does that get us into a needless and possibly provacative debate on the individual "WW villager" merits of different players, but it also puts those suggested players into a position of appearing to be in a critical role if they turn down the opportunity. That information would only help Shadow.

Anyway, throwing it out there.

Chief Rum · 05-01-2007, 05:12 AM

Not sure how much it matters now, but I noted the debate on whether the early voters were aware of the two vote nature of the name and punishment votes. Clearly there was some confusion.

I just wanted to say I understood that voting mechanism correctly, and I voted as I did, not out of any confusion for how the vote was to be done, but simply because I knew I wouldn't be around before deadline.

It will be the same today/tomorrow/Tuesday, with me leaving for work about 10:15 PDT.

hoopsguy · 05-01-2007, 07:07 AM

Well, I learned an interesting little factiod last night while I slept. Might as well get it out there now since I'm going to have pretty limited computer time today.

I was slept last night and I'm able to determine that it was by the Warlock as opposed to it being completed through a potion "dose".

Order of Actions:
Dose
Magical Night Action
Shadow Corruption

So, the Warlock should be able to vouch that I was not involved with either being corrupted last night or corrupting anyone else. Not that I'm asking him to publicly do so (and reveal his role) but that person should consider this with his own personal trust list. And I'm hoping that was part of the individual's thought process when choosing me for last night.

If I was going to be around more, I would probably have held onto this info for awhile to feel people out before revealing it or potentially keeping it to myself for a day or two. There is probably some value in doing that (Warlock can only do this two more times) but I believe that is mitigated by our collective need to track actions as much as possible to make informed votes.

The fact that the Warlock acted on me implies that he is still a cultist - my understanding of the rules is that he would have lost this power if turned.

hoopsguy · 05-01-2007, 07:14 AM

Dola -

factiod = factoid (not sure either is a word, but 2nd is what I meant to say)

Also, it is possible that the Warlock could have been corrupted after acting on me last night, but it strongly appears that the Warlock was not one of the first two Shadows.

Alan T · 05-01-2007, 08:05 AM

Hoops's topic brings up something that I was thinking about a bit last night. There are a few different methods for someone to be inhibited from their action, between magical roles and items. Obviously one such was used on Hoops last night. I wonder how far that can help us with a CoT though, as it made me think about how the shadow's night actions work.

We know for tonight there are 3 players influenced by the shadow. We know they have some rudimentary communication of some sort (once a day blast from the boss? Short messages sent through the GM? etc). If all three of them submit different names for who to convert tonight, its only a 33% chance of success. However if all three submit the same name, its a 100% chance of success.

Thats important for us to remember in terms of how their conversions work, but it got me thinking to the next level.. What does it mean if one of us get lucky and inhibit someone influenced by the shadow. So lets say, of the three who were submitting the same name, suddenly one of the three was inhibited through some means.. Now you only have 2 players influenced by the shadow submitting the same name for conversion, but its still the 100% chance as they both submitted the same name.

So it seems to me that the night inhibiting actions really don't tell us alot and really don't seem to prevent alot either. Using Hoops's case as an example, He claims to have been inhibited by the warlock, which seems like a silly claim to make unless its true. However what does that really tell us about Hoops? That he wasn't able to do a night action is it. There was still a conversion that occured, so Hoops couldn't have chosen that player for the conversion. However, it doesn't mean that Hoops isn't shadow though, it just means there must have been another player influenced by the shadow as well as him (if he is bad), which is something we already knew.

So I'm not sure how great or helpful or useful the action inhibitor roles are for us right now. Also please note, I was using Hoops as an example since he mentioned he was inhibited last night, I have no reason to believe one way or another that he is good or bad right now. Just using him as a method to illustrate that the action upon him really doesn't unfortunatly tell us much about him.

KWhit · 05-01-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Well, I learned an interesting little factiod last night while I slept. Might as well get it out there now since I'm going to have pretty limited computer time today.

I was slept last night and I'm able to determine that it was by the Warlock as opposed to it being completed through a potion "dose".

Order of Actions:
Dose
Magical Night Action
Shadow Corruption

So, the Warlock should be able to vouch that I was not involved with either being corrupted last night or corrupting anyone else. Not that I'm asking him to publicly do so (and reveal his role) but that person should consider this with his own personal trust list. And I'm hoping that was part of the individual's thought process when choosing me for last night.

If I was going to be around more, I would probably have held onto this info for awhile to feel people out before revealing it or potentially keeping it to myself for a day or two. There is probably some value in doing that (Warlock can only do this two more times) but I believe that is mitigated by our collective need to track actions as much as possible to make informed votes.

The fact that the Warlock acted on me implies that he is still a cultist - my understanding of the rules is that he would have lost this power if turned.

The bolded part isn't necessarily true, if I understand the rules right. Someone can be corrupted when asleep, can't they?

Peregrine · 05-01-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

The bolded part isn't necessarily true, if I understand the rules right. Someone can be corrupted when asleep, can't they?

Yes, it makes it quite easy, in fact. But if you're magically slept you can't take any actions.

Lathum · 05-01-2007, 09:05 AM

Alan- Thats basicly what I said yesterday. It is virtualy impossible to have a COT that doesn't include people who have been cleansed already.

Lets say it was I who put hoops to sllep. That would put myself and hoops at an elevated trust level for today only. After that we get knocked down a peg because we still can be viable targets tonight.

Lathum · 05-01-2007, 09:07 AM

I trust hoops slightly more because I don't think he could have been out converting anyone had he been a shadow since he was sleeping. Since there was a conversion it makes it slightly less likely hoops is a shadow.

Mustang · 05-01-2007, 09:15 AM

Vote Schmidty

Vote Punishment

Someone has to be the first to be voted on. Just throwing it out there for the time being. Although, my guess is the shadow would have went for someone more active for a conversion last night. So, might be better to point accusations at one of the top 3 instead.

Mustang · 05-01-2007, 09:16 AM

For what it's worth, I slept in the storage room last night.

DaddyTorgo · 05-01-2007, 09:21 AM

i might potentially have something very helpful shortly, either to myself or everyone.

Mustang · 05-01-2007, 09:26 AM

There might be some benefit in knowing who slept where the previous night. There are roles that people could have used where they might want to know who they were in the room with to possibility eliminate or inciminate them.

Yes, fishing for information but, not because of anything I can do.

DaddyTorgo · 05-01-2007, 09:27 AM

yeah. the only way we'll get a CoT is through cleansed people I think, agreeing with what others have said about how just because someone is cleared one day doesn't mean they won't be turned the next.

hoopsguy · 05-01-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

The bolded part isn't necessarily true, if I understand the rules right. Someone can be corrupted when asleep, can't they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Yes, it makes it quite easy, in fact. But if you're magically slept you can't take any actions.

Interesting, I thought the sleep acted as a blocker for all actions. Clearly I misunderstood that option, although that does not change the fact that I was not corrupted while asleep last night.

Will check in again this afternoon.

Tyrith · 05-01-2007, 09:37 AM

I slept in the Sitting Room last night. Nothing interesting happened.

Alan T · 05-01-2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I trust hoops slightly more because I don't think he could have been out converting anyone had he been a shadow since he was sleeping. Since there was a conversion it makes it slightly less likely hoops is a shadow.

You see my point earlier though took it a step further. I don't know if being slept even gives you an elevated trust even for today. It means only there had to have been at least 1 other bad guy to convert someone (which we already knew was true).

It means that for everyone else in my eyes you are a 1/8 chance of being a shadow yesterday. For Hoops, he is a 1/15 chance of being a shadow. So I think there are many better targets than Hoops today, I guess what I am saying is I don't think these imobolizing actions really help us as much as they help the shadows even. THey don't clear people, they dont stop a conversion from happening.. it only seems to help the shadows have a better chance of converting if what peregrine says is true.

Alan T · 05-01-2007, 09:50 AM

After thinking about it a while, I also have a big problem with Chief's plan of trying to setup a bunch of villagers to cleanse to set up a circle of trust.

At first glance, that sounds like a good plan as its the only surefire way to get trust.. but in more thought, its somewhat similar to being in a normal WW game and saying lets kill all of the Villagers so we know they can trust them, then it will be easy to pick off the wolves.

The shadow players here need a majority of the UNCLEANSED players to win. so if we follow through with CHief's plan and purposely cleanse 4-5 of our fellow cultist volunteers to set up a Circle of trust, he's right we'll have a good 5 people we can trust. We also will watch the shadow in that time likely convert another 3-4 players. Meaning out of 18 original players, there will be 5 cleansed players, 5-6 shadow players and 6-7 cultist left uncleansed. Basically putting us into end game and having to be perfect the rest of the way on who we cleanse.

Between yesterday's attempts at trying to get people to talk about their mundane(non-magical) roles, and today trying to setup a cleansing of volunteering cultists, thats two pretty huge ideas that Chief has thrown out that would be very benefitial to the shadow and very harmful for us. I'm a bit concerned about this.

I wanted to get this thought of mine out there before Chief left for the day, as its only fair to let him have time to respond.

KWhit · 05-01-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

At first glance, that sounds like a good plan as its the only surefire way to get trust.. but in more thought, its somewhat similar to being in a normal WW game and saying lets kill all of the Villagers so we know they can trust them, then it will be easy to pick off the wolves.

The shadow players here need a majority of the UNCLEANSED players to win.

You're absolutely right. I keep forgetting about that part.

DaddyTorgo · 05-01-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

You're absolutely right. I keep forgetting about that part.

d'oh! alan's right. ballz.

peregrine clearly thought of that in the design of the game.

KWhit · 05-01-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

d'oh! alan's right. ballz.

peregrine clearly thought of that in the design of the game.

Which makes sense from a game balance perspective. A cleanse is like a kill in that regard.

KWhit · 05-01-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i might potentially have something very helpful shortly, either to myself or everyone.

Anxiously awaiting the cool news.

Alan T · 05-01-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Which makes sense from a game balance perspective. A cleanse is like a kill in that regard.

There was an item listed I believe that can restore someone's magic role back to them after having lost it from being cleansed, but I have to guess thats a rare exception and not the rule. So its not exactly like being killed in most games, but as far as the winning equation goes it is, which is my problem with Chief's suggested plan.

DaddyTorgo · 05-01-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Anxiously awaiting the cool news.

well i'm not sure it's in my best interests to reveal it.just some more information on one of our cultists. i'm mulling over revealing it as i work. yeah...work...which i should be doing more of.

in fact...the more i think of it, the less i think it makes any sense to reveal it. it wouldn't do us any good to have the information be put out there publicly.

oh, and the other cool news was me checking an item i have to see what the usage rules are/see what i can do with it. doesn't really look all that useful though, at least not at this point in the game

DaddyTorgo · 05-01-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well i'm not sure it's in my best interests to reveal it.just some more information on one of our cultists. i'm mulling over revealing it as i work. yeah...work...which i should be doing more of.

in fact...the more i think of it, the less i think it makes any sense to reveal it. it wouldn't do us any good to have the information be put out there publicly.

oh, and the other cool news was me checking an item i have to see what the usage rules are/see what i can do with it. doesn't really look all that useful though, at least not at this point in the game

that's what happens when i get all excited about what i found without checking first to see what it can/can't do. perils of posting without being fully awake.

KWhit · 05-01-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well i'm not sure it's in my best interests to reveal it.just some more information on one of our cultists. i'm mulling over revealing it as i work. yeah...work...which i should be doing more of.

in fact...the more i think of it, the less i think it makes any sense to reveal it. it wouldn't do us any good to have the information be put out there publicly.

oh, and the other cool news was me checking an item i have to see what the usage rules are/see what i can do with it. doesn't really look all that useful though, at least not at this point in the game

You are such a tease.

Barkeep49 · 05-01-2007, 10:39 AM

I slept in the kitchen and while nothing of interest happened there I can tell you that I know that one of the potentially best roles for the good guys is not in the game.

DaddyTorgo · 05-01-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

You are such a tease.

i do what i can.

on a serious note though, i guess we really need to develop some type of strategy still, or are we still thinking we'll just go by voting records to try to nail down shadow?

we have 3 out there...that means even if we vote at random tonight we have a 1/6 chance of hitting shadow. which isn't horrible. but let's see if we can't narrow that down...we figure hoops is good at least today...so that's a 3/17 chance. i know i'm good, so that's 3/16...I feel like I personally can get it down to 3/14 at least. not horrible odds... better than 20%. And that's without even digging into deep analysis of what people have posted to guess who within that group has a higher probability of being good or being shadow.

DaddyTorgo · 05-01-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I slept in the kitchen and while nothing of interest happened there I can tell you that I know that one of the potentially best roles for the good guys is not in the game.

not in the game? what do you mean? i thought we had 18 roles, 18 players?

Barkeep49 · 05-01-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

not in the game? what do you mean? i thought we had 18 roles, 18 players?

I report, you decide. I think it suggests that the Shadow (and possibly the sun?) nominally have roles but can't use them? Dunno, but that's the info I have.

Joe · 05-01-2007, 10:50 AM

I did not sleep in a common room. Maybe I shouldnt reveal this.. oh well. I slept in hiding place, part of my mundane role. I also know who has the scroll of identity. Or, who had it, if it was used last night. I do not know if it was used or not.

BrianD · 05-01-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

I did not sleep in a common room. Maybe I shouldnt reveal this.. oh well. I slept in hiding place, part of my mundane role. I also know who has the scroll of identity. Or, who had it, if it was used last night. I do not know if it was used or not.

This is interesting. Assuming the Shadow don't sleep, this makes you as hidden as them at night.

Lathum · 05-01-2007, 11:17 AM

I slept in the alchemy closet and had an uneventful night

Swaggs · 05-01-2007, 11:21 AM

I slept in the storage room last night and used the scroll of identify as my night action.

I learned the role of one player and whether or not he has a mundane power.

Swaggs · 05-01-2007, 11:22 AM

dola... should read "scroll of identity" above.

Joe · 05-01-2007, 11:26 AM

swaggs was indeed who o saw had the scroll

04-30-2007, 10:37 PM	#253
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Right. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

04-30-2007, 10:54 PM	#257
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	So, did the Shadow/Sun members know who one another were today or not? I'm bouncing around, in my head, how that may have affected mercy/punishment voting (particularly late ones). __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

05-01-2007, 09:15 AM	#274
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	Vote Schmidty Vote Punishment Someone has to be the first to be voted on. Just throwing it out there for the time being. Although, my guess is the shadow would have went for someone more active for a conversion last night. So, might be better to point accusations at one of the top 3 instead. __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

05-01-2007, 09:16 AM	#275
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	For what it's worth, I slept in the storage room last night. __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

05-01-2007, 09:26 AM	#277
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	There might be some benefit in knowing who slept where the previous night. There are roles that people could have used where they might want to know who they were in the room with to possibility eliminate or inciminate them. Yes, fishing for information but, not because of anything I can do. __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

04-30-2007, 10:05 PM	#251
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm hoping not to be converted - it happens with shocking regularity in games with that mechanic. And it sucks flipping sides after putting in some time/energy with your initial team. Games I've been converted: X-Com Star Wars Thing Spawn 2 Them Gays So if the threat of being watched/viewed/whatever keeps the Shadow away for an evening or three then I'm all for it.

04-30-2007, 10:44 PM	#254
ImTheCrew High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2007	ahh good i thought i was out, so could someone help me? ive been cleansed??

04-30-2007, 11:33 PM	#259
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	you're just trying to build up your post count here so you aren't seen as a quiet one right

04-30-2007, 11:44 PM	#260
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	I would doubt they would reveal who they are. remember someone will turn eventually. and they are not goingto want the cleansed person to know who they are. Because most often the cleansed will tell.

05-01-2007, 12:54 AM	#262
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	While reading things before the vote (see my last post), I got into a huge argument with my wife. It went on for awhile, and then we made up and went to dinner, and stuff. I'm just now back to my computer. I apologize for pulling yet another Schmidty.

05-01-2007, 04:02 AM	#263
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	You wake up the next morning, unsure what will happen next. No one is dead on the floor, the danger you're facing is far more insidious than that. This morning's Count, the seer informs you, is 3. Three Shadow players are among you.

05-01-2007, 05:07 AM	#265
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Outside of getting someone from Shadow or perhaps Sun, I'm not sure we could have done too much better with our Day One cleansing. It's a relatively non-critical role, it seems, on a relatively quiet WW player (historically). It does lead me to think of one possible villager initiative we could use if the night actions don't point us toward a Shadow or good cleansing candidate. Perhaps we should aim to "cleanse" an active and influential WW player to start a COT. This player would necessarily have to have what is considered to be a low priority role (or better yet, one that helps Shadow--what if ImTheCrew was considered such a villager, and had also been the Artificer? We would have done the village two favors then by cleansing ITC). I don't know if we should actively do this sort of thing, but I think it's something to consider at least. I think if we did it, it should be on volunteer basis only. Only each individual player will know if he has the time and has had the past WW history to be an active and helpful villager, and he will also know if his role is a critical one or noncritical one. I would advise not making public recommendations of others who would be a good option. Not only does that get us into a needless and possibly provacative debate on the individual "WW villager" merits of different players, but it also puts those suggested players into a position of appearing to be in a critical role if they turn down the opportunity. That information would only help Shadow. Anyway, throwing it out there.

05-01-2007, 05:12 AM	#266
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Not sure how much it matters now, but I noted the debate on whether the early voters were aware of the two vote nature of the name and punishment votes. Clearly there was some confusion. I just wanted to say I understood that voting mechanism correctly, and I voted as I did, not out of any confusion for how the vote was to be done, but simply because I knew I wouldn't be around before deadline. It will be the same today/tomorrow/Tuesday, with me leaving for work about 10:15 PDT.

05-01-2007, 07:07 AM	#267
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Well, I learned an interesting little factiod last night while I slept. Might as well get it out there now since I'm going to have pretty limited computer time today. I was slept last night and I'm able to determine that it was by the Warlock as opposed to it being completed through a potion "dose". Order of Actions: Dose Magical Night Action Shadow Corruption So, the Warlock should be able to vouch that I was not involved with either being corrupted last night or corrupting anyone else. Not that I'm asking him to publicly do so (and reveal his role) but that person should consider this with his own personal trust list. And I'm hoping that was part of the individual's thought process when choosing me for last night. If I was going to be around more, I would probably have held onto this info for awhile to feel people out before revealing it or potentially keeping it to myself for a day or two. There is probably some value in doing that (Warlock can only do this two more times) but I believe that is mitigated by our collective need to track actions as much as possible to make informed votes. The fact that the Warlock acted on me implies that he is still a cultist - my understanding of the rules is that he would have lost this power if turned.

05-01-2007, 07:14 AM	#268
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Dola - factiod = factoid (not sure either is a word, but 2nd is what I meant to say) Also, it is possible that the Warlock could have been corrupted after acting on me last night, but it strongly appears that the Warlock was not one of the first two Shadows.

05-01-2007, 08:05 AM	#269
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Hoops's topic brings up something that I was thinking about a bit last night. There are a few different methods for someone to be inhibited from their action, between magical roles and items. Obviously one such was used on Hoops last night. I wonder how far that can help us with a CoT though, as it made me think about how the shadow's night actions work. We know for tonight there are 3 players influenced by the shadow. We know they have some rudimentary communication of some sort (once a day blast from the boss? Short messages sent through the GM? etc). If all three of them submit different names for who to convert tonight, its only a 33% chance of success. However if all three submit the same name, its a 100% chance of success. Thats important for us to remember in terms of how their conversions work, but it got me thinking to the next level.. What does it mean if one of us get lucky and inhibit someone influenced by the shadow. So lets say, of the three who were submitting the same name, suddenly one of the three was inhibited through some means.. Now you only have 2 players influenced by the shadow submitting the same name for conversion, but its still the 100% chance as they both submitted the same name. So it seems to me that the night inhibiting actions really don't tell us alot and really don't seem to prevent alot either. Using Hoops's case as an example, He claims to have been inhibited by the warlock, which seems like a silly claim to make unless its true. However what does that really tell us about Hoops? That he wasn't able to do a night action is it. There was still a conversion that occured, so Hoops couldn't have chosen that player for the conversion. However, it doesn't mean that Hoops isn't shadow though, it just means there must have been another player influenced by the shadow as well as him (if he is bad), which is something we already knew. So I'm not sure how great or helpful or useful the action inhibitor roles are for us right now. Also please note, I was using Hoops as an example since he mentioned he was inhibited last night, I have no reason to believe one way or another that he is good or bad right now. Just using him as a method to illustrate that the action upon him really doesn't unfortunatly tell us much about him.

05-01-2007, 09:05 AM	#272
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Alan- Thats basicly what I said yesterday. It is virtualy impossible to have a COT that doesn't include people who have been cleansed already. Lets say it was I who put hoops to sllep. That would put myself and hoops at an elevated trust level for today only. After that we get knocked down a peg because we still can be viable targets tonight.

05-01-2007, 09:07 AM	#273
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I trust hoops slightly more because I don't think he could have been out converting anyone had he been a shadow since he was sleeping. Since there was a conversion it makes it slightly less likely hoops is a shadow.

05-01-2007, 09:21 AM	#276
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i might potentially have something very helpful shortly, either to myself or everyone.

05-01-2007, 09:27 AM	#278
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	yeah. the only way we'll get a CoT is through cleansed people I think, agreeing with what others have said about how just because someone is cleared one day doesn't mean they won't be turned the next.

05-01-2007, 09:37 AM	#280
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	I slept in the Sitting Room last night. Nothing interesting happened.

05-01-2007, 09:50 AM	#282
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	After thinking about it a while, I also have a big problem with Chief's plan of trying to setup a bunch of villagers to cleanse to set up a circle of trust. At first glance, that sounds like a good plan as its the only surefire way to get trust.. but in more thought, its somewhat similar to being in a normal WW game and saying lets kill all of the Villagers so we know they can trust them, then it will be easy to pick off the wolves. The shadow players here need a majority of the UNCLEANSED players to win. so if we follow through with CHief's plan and purposely cleanse 4-5 of our fellow cultist volunteers to set up a Circle of trust, he's right we'll have a good 5 people we can trust. We also will watch the shadow in that time likely convert another 3-4 players. Meaning out of 18 original players, there will be 5 cleansed players, 5-6 shadow players and 6-7 cultist left uncleansed. Basically putting us into end game and having to be perfect the rest of the way on who we cleanse. Between yesterday's attempts at trying to get people to talk about their mundane(non-magical) roles, and today trying to setup a cleansing of volunteering cultists, thats two pretty huge ideas that Chief has thrown out that would be very benefitial to the shadow and very harmful for us. I'm a bit concerned about this. I wanted to get this thought of mine out there before Chief left for the day, as its only fair to let him have time to respond.

05-01-2007, 10:39 AM	#291
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I slept in the kitchen and while nothing of interest happened there I can tell you that I know that one of the potentially best roles for the good guys is not in the game.

05-01-2007, 10:50 AM	#295
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	I did not sleep in a common room. Maybe I shouldnt reveal this.. oh well. I slept in hiding place, part of my mundane role. I also know who has the scroll of identity. Or, who had it, if it was used last night. I do not know if it was used or not.

05-01-2007, 11:17 AM	#297
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I slept in the alchemy closet and had an uneventful night

05-01-2007, 11:21 AM	#298
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I slept in the storage room last night and used the scroll of identify as my night action. I learned the role of one player and whether or not he has a mundane power. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

05-01-2007, 11:22 AM	#299
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	dola... should read "scroll of identity" above. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

05-01-2007, 11:26 AM	#300
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	swaggs was indeed who o saw had the scroll

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