NASA/Space thread

[Edward64]

It's incredible to me all the science & math that goes into calculating the intersection/impact/collision point.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It's incredible to me all the science & math that goes into calculating the intersection/impact/collision point.

It has to be one of the most complicated classical mechanical calculations (i.e. no relativity, no quantum mechanics) that we've ever done.

[Edward64]

Good news. I guess this means we'll be better prepared if there is an ELE asteroid headed our way.

DART mission successfully changed motion of an asteroid | CNN

The Double Asteroid Redirection Test successfully changed the trajectory of the asteroid Dimorphos when the NASA spacecraft intentionally slammed into the space rock on September 26, according to the agency.

The DART mission, a full-scale demonstration of deflection technology, was the world’s first conducted on behalf of planetary defense. The mission was also the first time humanity intentionally changed the motion of a celestial object in space.

Prior to impact, it took Dimorphos 11 hours and 55 minutes to orbit its larger parent asteroid Didymos. Astronomers used ground-based telescopes to measure how Dimorphos’ orbit changed after impact.

Now, it takes Dimorphos 11 hours and 23 minutes to circle Didymos. The DART spacecraft changed the moonlet asteroid’s orbit by 32 minutes.

Initially, astronomers expected DART to be a success if it shortened the trajectory by 10 minutes.

[Edward64]

I've been reading up on the multiverse. Marvel has it embedded in everything now, easy way to explain inconsistencies in their movies. Not a bad thing, I enjoyed the latest Spiderman and bringing in the other 2.

So googling on stuff, watching YT etc. Basically, it's a theory based on math/physics/quantum calculations that say there could be multiverses (and there are like 5-9 different types/versions of possible multiverses).

One YT said Einstein's calculations implied some strange stuff (e.g. blackholes), and they were proven later. Providing credence that today's "calculations" can be "extrapolated" and, may well mean there are multiverses which will be proven in the future.

There is one version of the multiverse that says there is a (incomprehensible) number of multiverses because every-single-possibility-from-every-single-event creates a new multiverse.

All of this is way above my abilities to truly comprehend. But yeah, I'm calling BS on it. I like a single universe or, at most, a fixed and reasonable number of "parallel universes".

[Brian Swartz]

I don't think it's BS. I think it's unknowable/unprovable at this point. We aren't even certain our own universe has the shape we think it does, or whether it has boundaries. It's kind of like medieval Europeans thinking Earth was smaller than it is and having no idea the New World existed. Talk to them about other planets and they'd be dumbfounded.

If you look at how quantam mechanics works though for example, to me that's a far stranger reality than the idea of a multiverse. We're nowhere close to having a 'theory of everything' that explains how the physics of the small and the physics of the large fit together. We don't fully understand gravity even - we know what it does, but not why/how. There's a lot of unknowns, to the point where I think it's way too early in our scientific understanding to rule out multiverses. The way black holes function, to the degree we understand it, is absolutely insane even to physicists.

[Edward64]

The Hubble one is easier to look at IMO but the Webb definitely has much more detail.

[sterlingice]

Map of Total Lunar Eclipse on November 8, 2022

There's a total lunar eclipse visible tonight from every point in the US. However, it's in the middle of the night or early morning for most people (in Houston, it's from 4:16-5:41).

SI

[Solecismic]

It's another long one. For those of us in the east, partial begins at 4:09, total begins at 5:16. It will be very low on the horizon, visible to the west. In Ohio, the moon will set shortly after totality ends - fairly light by then.

[Edward64]

There was a blurb on CNBC on Artemis. A commitment to "stay" on the Moon for various reasons including competing with China. They mentioned having "hotels" on/around the moon which is super cool.

(Unfortunately, I'll probably be dead or my bones too brittle before it becomes commercialized for common person. But wouldn't mind my ashes being buried there).

A couple interesting notes from wiki Artemis program - Wikipedia

Kudos to Trump admin for establishing the program.

The Artemis program was formally established in 2017 during the Trump administration; however, many of its components such as the Orion spacecraft were developed during the previous Constellation program (2005–2010) during the Bush administration, and after its cancellation during the Obama administration

Also, funny tradition that I didn't know about

On 10 January 2020, NASA's 22nd astronaut group, nicknamed the "Turtles", graduated and were assigned to the Artemis program. The group includes two Canadian Space Agency (CSA) astronauts. The group earned their nickname from the prior astronaut group, "The 8-Balls", as is a tradition dating back to "The Mercury Seven" in 1962 which subsequently provided the "Next Nine" with their nickname. They were given this name, for the most part, because of Hurricane Harvey.

Supposed costs are:

US$35 billion (2020–2024)

[Kodos]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/artemis...d=hp_lead_pos6

Successful launch this morning. It's kinda crazy that as of December 14th, nobody will have been on the moon for 50 years.

[Edward64]

I briefly considered watching it but launch window was like 1-3am ET.

Must be pretty cool to live in/near Cape Canaveral and be able to watch all those live, in person.

[sterlingice]

I was up watching Kansas play but I saw there was still an hour left when I went to sleep and I had to be up early this morning. I'm bummed that it was a night launch but I'm sure it was then because it had to be, TV ratings be damned

SI

[Brian Swartz]

FWIW there was a two-hour launch window unless they wanted to delay it again. Roughly 1-3 AM EST. In terms of TV ratings, I'd say that's more important when we get back to landing human beings on the moon rather than an unmanned launch - important though that is. That won't happen until Artemis III, roughly three years from now.

[sterlingice]

Yes, yes - I was being glib. And, we were out at Johnson Space Center earlier this year reading about the Artemis project. I think 2024/2025 are probably a little ambitious, but we'll see.

However, I do think it's important for NASA to treat this as something that can help them get funding for the next generation. That needs to be a consideration, albeit certainly not a primary one.

SI

[Edward64]

Some pics from James Web

Dazzling galactic diamonds shine in new Webb telescope image | CNN

Pic 1 / 17 is of 2 galaxies merging. I'm picturing like solar systems, suns, planets crashing into each other. I guess it takes millions of years to completely merge, but hate to be an intelligent species, in either of those galaxies, observing the night sky

Pic 10 / 17 looks like the Grim Reaper

[Brian Swartz]

There are probably better links for this, just throwing up one to have something for reference.

The James Webb Space Telescope discovers enormous distant galaxies that should not exist | Space

Analysis of JWST data has resulted in finding apparent galaxies much larger and more mature than expected near the edge of it's detection range. Younger and smaller galaxies were expected this close to the Big Bang. Lots of verification yet to be done, but there may be a new mystery to solve.

[Edward64]

TBH I’m still stuck on the Big Bang where everything was together before being blown apart. I know there’s lot of evidence that some sort of Big Bang happened but I’m sure there’s a bunch of underlying assumptions that can be scrutinized more.

Beats me, mysteries are good though.

Still also struggling with how Entanglements work. Wish I was an astrophysicist that could brainstorm all these mysteries.

[GrantDawg]

In the end, there are still way more things in the universe that we don't understand than we things we do. I believe some day scientist will look at the science we have now like we look at ancient superstitions.

[Edward64]

IMO not quite as bad as we have the scientific method now and we are more careful re: proof of vs evidence for.

But your point is taken

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

In the end, there are still way more things in the universe that we don't understand than we things we do. I believe some day scientist will look at the science we have now like we look at ancient superstitions.

And there are a number of things we have a light understanding of more than a concrete one - say, we understand the black box input/output interactions of something but not the mechanistic ones

SI

[sterlingice]

This was making the rounds on Reddit over the last day or two.

I didn't realize that the Soviets actually landed a number of probes on Venus in the 70s and 80s and we even have some photos and sound from Venus. It's actually a crazy fascinating story to me and kindof bummed we haven't heard more about it here, probably because of cold war politics.

Venera - Wikipedia

At first, there was the (understandable) assumption that Venus was a lot like Earth. At least until probes started breaking high up in the atmosphere from all the pressure and heat (Venera 3/4). The next set (Venera 5/6) has issues with the batteries and parachutes failing but got good readings and they managed to extrapolate the measurements and built probes that could, conceivably withstand the forces.

Venera 7 (1970) was built like a tank to try and survive but its parachute failed and it crashed, damaging the radio antenna. It still managed to transmit a weak signal for a few minutes. Venera 8 (1972) landed successfully on the surface and transmitted data for an hour - no camera, though.

They redesigned the probes for the next series to have a giant "brake" (read: round ring around the lander to catch wind) and a giant shock absorber base. Venera 9-12 (1975, 1978) all landed successfully and transmitted. However, all of their cameras had issues with camera lans caps. Still, 9 and 10 got some pictures of Venus. These were followed by Venera 13/14 (1981/1982), humanity's last visits to Venus. (Venera 15/16 in 1983 were just orbiters)
Venera-9 imagery by Donald Mitchell
Venera-10 imagery by Donald Mitchell

The eerie yellow pictures look, well, alien. Rocky like Mars but yellow instead of red.
Venus From 33 Years Ago, and Why We Need to… | The Planetary Society

SI

[Edward64]

Thanks for this. I have never seen this come up in all my readings & googling.

[NobodyHere]

See inside NASA's 3D-printed Mars habitat where 4 volunteers will live for a year. It includes a gym, PlayStation 3, and a lot of red sand.

A Playstation 3? Why not a 4 or 5?

Also wouldn't it make a lot of sense just to use prisoners for these types of studies?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

See inside NASA's 3D-printed Mars habitat where 4 volunteers will live for a year. It includes a gym, PlayStation 3, and a lot of red sand.

A Playstation 3? Why not a 4 or 5?

Also wouldn't it make a lot of sense just to use prisoners for these types of studies?

To rub it in Saddam Hussein's face?


(Or was that the PS2?)

SI

[cartman]

I'm going to be down around Port Aransas this weekend, but won't be able to stay until Monday. I was hoping to be able to stay in case the massive SpaceX rocket was able to launch from Boca Chica at 7am on Monday.

[Edward64]

Some more fantastic & somewhat mind blowing James Webb pics.

Sick of Star Wars? Latest James Webb Space Telescope photos are just the tonic! | Digital Camera World

Probably the most stunning recent release from NASA this year has to be the close-up details of the prototypical supernova (star explosion) remnant Cassiopeia A (Cas A). As the result of a stellar explosion over 340 years ago, Cas A is said to be one of the youngest known supernova remnants within our galaxy,

the JWST captured a new image of its "dramatic atmosphere." The ringed ice giant planet has been photographed in infrared and the latest image shows not only a complex system of dramatic rings but also a bright polar cap and what could potentially be storm clouds.

... spectacular image showcasing a galactic merger, and collision of two spiral galaxies known as Arp 220, resulting in an enormous burst of new star formation.

[Edward64]

Good news about more moons with water. Would love it if they find alien single-cell organisms or like before I die.

And ... is it time to change the name of Uranus? Let's get something less awkward like Caelus (see below).

Scientists say they have found more moons with oceans in the Solar System | Ars Technica

The space agency has only ever flown one spacecraft, Voyager 2, by the seventh planet in our Solar System. The Voyager spacecraft flew by Uranus a long time ago, in 1985. But in light of the discoveries made by the Cassini, Dawn, and New Horizons spacecraft, scientists have been revisiting the data collected by Voyager in addition to the data obtained by ground-based telescopes.

This has led NASA scientists to conclude that four of Uranus’ largest moons—Ariel, Umbriel, Titania, and Oberon—probably contain water oceans below their icy crusts. These oceans are likely dozens of kilometers deep and probably fairly salty in being sandwiched between the upper ice and inner rock core. These inner cores are likely producing enough heat from radioactive decay to create layers of liquid water, the scientists say. Additionally, chlorides, as well as ammonia, are likely abundant in the oceans of the icy giant’s largest moons and may be helping to keep them unfrozen.

History of the name

In a March 1782 treatise, Bode proposed Uranus, the Latinised version of the Greek god of the sky, Ouranos.[44] Bode argued that the name should follow the mythology so as not to stand out as different from the other planets, and that Uranus was an appropriate name as the father of the first generation of the Titans.[44] He also noted that elegance of the name in that just as Saturn was the father of Jupiter, the new planet should be named after the father of Saturn.[38][44][45][46]

Bode was however apparently unaware that Uranus was only the Latinised form of the titular deity, and his Roman equivalent was Caelus. In 1789, Bode's Royal Academy colleague Martin Klaproth named his newly discovered element uranium in support of Bode's choice.[47] Ultimately, Bode's suggestion became the most widely used, and became universal in 1850 when HM Nautical Almanac Office, the final holdout, switched from using Georgium Sidus to Uranus.[45]

[Edward64]

This sounds pretty cool. I would be willing to volunteer for a one-way ticket to Mars (or further) but not sure I'd volunteer to be in an enclosed habitat on earth. But kudos to them.

NASA should come up with a limited reality show from this. I know it won't have all the drama but would be neat to see the experiments, day-in-the-life etc.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-vi...sion-one-year/

Four volunteers entered a simulated Mars habitat on Sunday, where they are expected to remain for 378 days while facing a range of challenges designed to anticipate a real-life human mission to the red planet.

The participants — research scientist Kelly Haston, structural engineer Ross Brockwell, emergency medicine physician Nathan Jones and U.S. Navy microbiologist Anca Selariu — were selected from a pool of applicants to be part of NASA's Crew Health and Performance Exploration Analog, or CHAPEA, in its first yearlong mission. None of them are trained astronauts.
:
The simulated mission is the first of three planned Mars surface simulations, each of which is expected to last one year. NASA says the information collected and studied over the course of these missions, along with ongoing exploration happening on and around the moon, will help send the first astronauts to Mars in the future.

No mention of it but at the very least, there needs to be top end PCs with top end GPUs to ensure I can play the latest & greatest games (Civ 7, Skyrim 2 aka Elder Scrolls 6) for the next 5-6 years.

During their time inside of the 3D-printed, 1,700-square-foot habitat, the crew is set to carry out an array of "mission activities," including simulated spacewalks, robotic operations, growing of crops, habitat maintenance, personal hygiene and exercise, according to NASA. At 1,700 square feet, the habitat is smaller than the average U.S. single-family house. It includes a kitchen, private crew quarters and two bathrooms, along with medical, work and recreation areas.

They crew will also face a series of obstacles that likely mirror those of a true Mars mission, as researchers simulate conditions like resource limitations, equipment failure, communication delays and environmental stressors, NASA said in a news release when it introduced the crew members in April.

"The simulation will allow us to collect cognitive and physical performance data to give us more insight into the potential impacts of long-duration missions to Mars on crew health and performance," Douglas said at that time. "Ultimately, this information will help NASA make informed decisions to design and plan for a successful human mission to Mars."

[Thomkal]

Wait a minute, I thought we already have "Stars on Mars?"-even William Shatner as the host.

[Edward64]

I had to google on that, didn't know it was a thing ... I don't have Fox.

Is it any good?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I had to google on that, didn't know it was a thing ... I don't have Fox.

Is it any good?

No not really-I stopped after watching part of the 1st episode. A bunch of celebrities "on Mars" competing Survivor style to win it all. Only the challenges are all based on surviving on Mars rather than a tropical island.



An interesting choice for a celebrity is Lance Armstong-who I guess has been forgiven for his doping scandal.

[Edward64]

re: Artemis project

When India’s ambassador to the US signed up his country to the Artemis Accords last month, it signaled the world’s most populous country—with a growing prowess in spaceflight—could be turning toward the United States as a partner in space exploration.

India became the 27th country to sign the Artemis Accords, a non-binding set of principles among like-minded nations guiding a vision for peaceful and transparent exploration of space. The accords cover the international registration of human-made space objects, the open release of scientific data, and an agreement for nations not to claim territory on the Moon or other planetary bodies, among other tenets.

Didn't know there were the "Artemis Accords" but makes sense. Non-binding which is probably to be expected.

It was the below statement that caught my eye. Reminded me of Apple's "For All Mankind". There was a race to Mars by 2 countries and 1 commercial enterprise. When one of them got into trouble mid-way, the other 2 helped out.

He said the principles are “just common sense.”

“You come to somebody’s aid in distress … You try to have commonality of parts, you respect each other’s territory,” Nelson said.

[Critch]

It's a toss-up whether to put this in the NASA/Space thread or the Strange News thread or some new "Crazy Conspiracy Theory Overload" thread, but in here it goes.

From the late 2000s to the mid-2010s, I worked as a molecular biologist for a national security contractor in a program to study Exo-Biospheric-Organisms (EBO). I will share with you a lot of information on this subject.

It's well written and interesting if almost certainly fantasy.

I want to believe. (I dont really, it was just an X-Files quote.)

[Edward64]

Not a molecular Biologist but I believe. Who wants to join me and do an XCom infiltration into Ft Detrick?

[Edward64]

It's a "space/moon race" all over again, circa 1960's. Happy it's happening. The US needs to be "encouraged" by competition to get going.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...nding-artemis/

Next week, spacecraft from Russia and India are scheduled to touch down on the lunar surface, the latest in an international caravan of robotic spacecraft that have headed to the moon in recent years. They would be followed by the launch of a small lander to the moon by the Japanese space agency in an effort to test precise landing techniques that could be used in future missions.

Private companies from Israel and Japan have tried and failed to land spacecraft in recent years. China, meanwhile, landed in 2019 and again 2020 and seeks to send astronauts there by 2030. NASA is working on its own lunar campaign through its Artemis program, which seeks to build infrastructure on and around the moon for the long term. All of which has touched off something of a moon race, reminiscent of the Cold War rivalry of the United States and the Soviet Union, though far different in its scope and purpose and with many more competitors.

And the prize is ...

Today, the goal is not so much proving superiority of one political system over another but a race to a physical location, the south pole of the moon, where water in the form of ice lies in permanently shadowed craters. Being able to access that ice is vital to any human settlement, not only because water is key to sustaining life, but because its component parts, hydrogen and oxygen, can be used as rocket fuel, potentially making the moon a gas station in space and a springboard to other parts of the solar system.

[Edward64]

Guess nvm on the Russian landing.

Luna 25: Russia's lunar lander crashes into the moon | CNN

Russia’s first lunar mission in decades has ended in failure with its Luna 25 spacecraft crashing into the moon’s surface.

The incident, a blow to Russia’s space ambitions, happened after communication with the robotic spacecraft was interrupted.

Russia’s space agency, Roscosmos, said it lost touch with Luna 25 on Saturday around 2:57 p.m. Moscow time.

But India is still alive.

Chandrayaan-3: Indian spacecraft enters lunar orbit in step closer to moon rover soft landing | CNN

India moved one step closer to executing a controlled landing on the moon after its Chandrayaan-3 spacecraft entered lunar orbit over the weekend, inching toward the surface’s unexplored South Pole.

The Indian Space Research Organization confirmed the spacecraft also “successfully underwent a planned orbit reduction maneuver,” in an update Sunday on X, formerly known as Twitter. “The retrofiring of engines brought it closer to the Moon’s surface.”

Can't really say if it was worth National Pride vs Other Investments, but below caught my eye. Was it really that cheap?

India has since spent about $75 million on its Chandrayaan-3 mission.

[GrantDawg]

Remember the show Salvage 1 where Andy Griffith made rockets out of junk parts? That's what India's budget made me think of.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[CrimsonFox]

Every now and then I turn it on the NASA channel and I realize....just how much I hate polo shirts especially with big logos. They are just gross and make me feel even grosser. Oh yeah and they are in space and all that...

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Remember the show Salvage 1 where Andy Griffith made rockets out of junk parts? That's what India's budget made me think of.

Wed evening. It'll be pretty cool to see another rover on the moon along with US & China.

The lander module (LM), comprising the lander ‘Vikram’ and rover ‘Pragyan’, is expected to touch down on the lunar surface on Wednesday, August 23 at 18.04 hours, ISRO said. Earlier ISRO had said that the touchdown would take place at at 5.47 pm on August 23. Now, it has been moved by 17 minutes.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Every now and then I turn it on the NASA channel and I realize....just how much I hate polo shirts especially with big logos. They are just gross and make me feel even grosser. Oh yeah and they are in space and all that...

Well now we know what to get you for Xmas-not games but polo shirts

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Wed evening. It'll be pretty cool to see another rover on the moon along with US & China.

Congrats India.

I don't always agree with your politics but this is science!

Chandrayaan-3 landing: India becomes the fourth country ever to land a spacecraft on the moon | CNN

India has landed its Chandrayaan-3 spacecraft on the moon, becoming only the fourth nation ever to accomplish such a feat.

The mission could cement India’s status as a global superpower in space. Previously, only the United States, China and the former Soviet Union have completed soft landings on the lunar surface.

Chandrayaan-3’s landing site is also closer to the moon’s south pole than any other spacecraft in history has ventured. The south pole region is considered an area of key scientific and strategic interest for spacefaring nations, as scientists believe the region to be home to water ice deposits.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Didn't know there were the "Artemis Accords" but makes sense. Non-binding which is probably to be expected.

Where things will get interesting IMO is on agreements like this. It might not be polar ice on the moon, but at some point resources will be found that are too valuable to share. Instead of the 60s space race analogy where the important thing was to beat the Russians not for any specific gain from getting to the moon but just for propaganda, I can see conflict over resources in 'near space' leading to actual wars between nations. 'We got here first' won't be nearly good enough at a certain stage. Probably won't happen in my lifetime, but I think it eventually will happen.

[Brian Swartz]

Question for Edward as well as anyone interested in the search for life; are you familiar with the Europa Clipper mission? I don't want to bore the thread with things people already know, but it's interesting me as, super-short version, I think that

A. It's the most likely place afaik for us to find complex life in our solar system, and
B. It will probably also be centuries before we can find out if there actually is any there or not.

[Edward64]

I was not familiar with it but just read about it on wikipedia. It's a scouting mission for a future lander. Not sure the timing of the lander but it shouldn't take centuries for the lander to be built and land on Europa?

The goals of Europa Clipper are to explore Europa, investigate its habitability and aid in the selection of a landing site for the future Europa Lander.

I know Europa has always been one of those planets/moons where bodies of water exists. When you say "complex" you mean like fish? I don't expect intelligent life like Spock, I'd be happy with finding alien microbes, bacteria etc. before I die.

[Brian Swartz]

Could be fish, could be similar to some of the 'exotic' life at the bottom of the ocean near vents, etc. Basically just life that is more developed than the microbe/bacteria level.

I think we can definitely get a lander there sooner, but ...

- As best we know, this mission will clarify the situation if it goes well, the water on Europa is under a layer of ice. NASA estimates the ice to be 10-15 miles thick currently. Which is a problem. There are more options for dealing with ice than dealing with rock of course, but we've gone about 7 miles at the deepest drilling into the Earth's crust. We can use whatever equipment we can build here of course. Hundreds of millions of miles away with communications lag of over 20 minutes at closest approach each way and a quite limited viable payload size is a little bit different.

- Nothing we put on Europa's surface or near it will last long, due to Jupiter's radiation belts. A few months is the longest they think our current most-hardened spacecraft can last. That's why Europa Clipper is both prepared for the radiation but also not going into orbit around Europa, but rather doing dozens of flybys.

So basically, if our best guesses so far are accurate, we need to be able to get through miles of ice to take some sort of assessment of the water underneath. Whatever does that needs to be able to operate with very minimal direction from Earth and do it quickly so that it's still functioning when it gets to where the water is. Or else find a way to predict where cracks in the ice will form and be able to get into them before they re-freeze, which ... maybe that's more possible than I think, but it seems like a pipe dream to me. We can't even accurately predict what a lot of the tectonic plates on Earth are going to do.

I just think it's fascinating that from what I know about it, the conditions are really good for life - a large volume of water if we're correct, heated by tidal forces flexing Europa's core - but at the same time actually getting to it and finding out what's there is a monumental undertaking. I'm also super-curious to get more information from the mission in terms of confirming the water that we think is there, and how thick the ice is, and all of that ... would go a long way towards narrowing down just how viable it would be to actually investigate further.

[Edward64]

Been reading a little more. This article is from 2016 but chuckled at below comment

NASA's Europa Lander May Drill to Find Pristine Samples on Icy Moon | Space

"People want us to drill into Europa and find a fish," she said. "But right now, this is not realistic;− the hope is to land there and detect biogenic molecules, the molecules essential for life."

And the plan isn't to drill down the 10-15 miles estimated but much shorter.

This means drilling into Europa's ice. Schmidt thinks a mission needs to drill at least 4 inches (10 centimeters) down, to a place where the thrusters haven't contaminated the ice and space radiation hasn't destroyed biogenic molecules — the stuff− necessary for life's processes to take place.

"If we get 10 centimeters, or a meter [about 3 feet], down, this area hasn't been blasted with the thrusters," Schmidt told Space.com. "Maybe a portion, but the confidence for getting a pristine sample goes up the further you go down."

Honestly though, isn't finding alien microbes/bacteria just as good a win as an alien fish?

[Edward64]

And, of course, Arthur C. Clarke's quote ...

ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS – EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE

I remember enjoying "2010: Odyssey Two" but forgot about this line.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Honestly though, isn't finding alien microbes/bacteria just as good a win as an alien fish?

That depends on your goal I guess. For me it's more about understanding what's going on in places like this. I don't think finding microbes changes anything significant.

[Edward64]

IMO Step 1 is discovering alien life, any type of life. It will positively show we aren't unique and that life exists out there. We intuitively know that to be true already, but when we have the evidence, it becomes real.

I think you and I exchanged something similar earlier ... if and when we find alien life, there will be renewed interest & public support, massive investment by governments & private enterprises in more space technologies, exploration etc. New science & new technologies will come out of this. It'll be an exciting time for a sci-fi fan to be alive.

So yes, finding an alien microbe is pretty much the same as finding an alien fish at the very beginning. Both will accomplish my second paragraph.


And on a more practical matter ...

Digging 3 ft is a lot easier than digging 10+ miles. So I rather do the low hanging fruit in the next 5 years (?), see if we can find microbial life vs waiting much longer for a lander that can drill the 10+ miles.

[Brian Swartz]

Oh I definitely agree that we should do whatever is practical now. I just don't think the effect on interest you describe would actually happen by finding a micro-organism. Most people wouldn't care, and they're not going to want to spend a bunch more money for something with no practical return (that goes esp. for private sector interests).