How to (successfully) hit on a coworker.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Did anyone expect that Jim DIDN'T keep a spreadsheet on his approach?

When's the release of Front Office Dating?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Mota

Maybe I was in the top 20%. I dunno. I feel like I was an okay catch at the time. Good education, decent shape, decent job (for my age). 5'9", not tall but not short. Apparently from what I've heard, height is VERY important. Wish I knew why that was such a high priority. Kinda ridick. Imagine a guy stating that he'll only date women with DD.

For me it was 100 messages, 10 responses, 3 dates, 1 relationship. Things seemed to fit into those ratios. Sometimes it felt like it took forever between responses, and sometimes I had multiple communications going at once.

I'd put a mostly generic post that I'd reuse, but would add in specific lines related to their profile, to show I actually read it and cared. But I wouldn't craft a 2 page masterpiece individually, ain't got time for that.

Also did anybody think about TCY recruiting when they read Jim's post? LOL. Oh, 10 calls left this week. What's her education aptitude? Hopefully she's in the same state. Is she visiting any other prospects this week?

I thought divorce was an excellent opportunity to reinvent myself. It's not like my day job was working out, either. But one of my skills is the ability to work out ways to analyze data using nontraditional methods.

From a more philosophical perspective, what happens if you try and replace environment in the whole nature/nurture paradigm? Will you end up with essentially the same person? Or will you come to different conclusions?

I used the dating process as a catalyst for that change. I tried to remove as much bias from the process as possible. Though I had to rely on basics that would have felt wrong - it's not like I felt I needed to try hard drugs, rob banks at gunpoint or date someone whose profile was unpleasant.

I would say that less changed about me than I had hoped. But I think I'm a much more empathetic person, calmer, able to shrug off much more of what I can't control. If only I could stop reading the news entirely and just focus on family, work and health (the body sure does break down after decades in front of a computer). My politics ended up a little less libertarian, but still in that quadrant, and still, I hope, evolving.

In dating, I can't emphasize attraction enough, which I would have called a shallow approach when I was younger. An intellectual and value-based connection (I am not religious) is still more important, but you have to get on the same playing field first.

As for those first messages, no, you can't write two-page essays. Two, three sentences at most. Intro, idea, action. Action being something along the lines of welcoming a return message. I cringe when I remember my first attempt at online dating - I found the "perfect" profile and composed this long, perfect message... waited... and nothing. She must have thought I was absolutely insane.

Percentages - about one message a week sent, about 50% response, met maybe 20% of those who responded, probably 50% of those were one or two dates and no more. Of those who messaged me, I almost never responded (there are plenty of women who send out 100 generic messages a week, too). Met a couple of them in the end, one just because she was so much younger - and taller than me (I'm 6-0/6-1). She was quite interesting, but boy does the generation gap become obvious when you're 10-15 years apart.

Another rule that worked well for me was limiting the back-and-forth messaging or any kind of dating to one person at a time. Not because of commitment or for that person's benefit at all, but for my own benefit. This was a process and I needed to learn as much as I could from it. It was more than three years into this that I met my wife, but by then I had learned enough that I knew by the end of our second date that this was someone I could have a real relationship with.

Going back to the topic of co-workers... I think it's a terrible idea in general. There's always the excuse of "how else am I..." but that's where online dating comes in, or bars if you can navigate that scene, or meetup groups, anything else. We can talk about how politics is changing and how Me Too changed some dynamics.

One thing to be aware of is that women have long had to deal with a measure of sexual harassment in the workplace. A man has a relationship with a cute co-worker and he gets fist-bumps in the hallway. A woman has a relationship with a cute co-worker and she's sleeping her way to the top. Is that equal opportunity? That has finally changed now, and the answer is, I think, to treat the workplace as a zero-attraction environment, no matter how strongly you feel it's OK. There's a lot of truth to Zelda's theory of "propinquity" in the Dobie Gillis world. But that leads to poor decisions. You must fight against propinquity.

[sovereignstar v2]

I don't really like to share personal details much since I was doxxed on this forum, but I'm 6-3, fairly attractive, and my dating struggle is real. It's a confidence thing with me. I tried online dating years ago and it was awful.

[Solecismic]

Yeah, I've had lots of women tell me that physically, all they care about is height. And confidence is key, too. I think they can smell desperation.

I don't know how to explain that part. For me, it was cluelessness about dating, then married to someone who I just shouldn't have been married to out of loneliness on both sides. Then when I came out of it, suddenly it all made sense and that's where the confidence came from.

For lack of a better analogy, it was like sitting in the cockpit of plane and suddenly realizing that you understood all the controls and could fly that thing.

[Ksyrup]

Re the height thing. I'm 5'9" (although probably slightly under that now) so I've never been told I'm not tall enough, but if that ever happened, I suppose my snarky response would be, "OK, I'll get right on that."

[PilotMan]

Having been out of the dating market for 24 years or so I find the idea of this new dating market terrifying. I try to hard, my expectations are too high, and my feelings all probably to sensitive to find success without some major personality adjustments. Thankful that's one thing I don't need to worry about.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Having been out of the dating market for 24 years or so I find the idea of this new dating market terrifying. I try to hard, my expectations are too high, and my feelings all probably to sensitive to find success without some major personality adjustments. Thankful that's one thing I don't need to worry about.

Eh. You show up at one bar in the Pilot's uniform, you would do fine.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

I don't really like to share personal details much since I was doxxed on this forum, but I'm 6-3, fairly attractive, and my dating struggle is real. It's a confidence thing with me. I tried online dating years ago and it was awful.

Were you really?

[Lathum]

Dola- I am in jersey where a lot of guys are shorter Italian types. 5-7 or so. Height is definitely a thing for a lot of girls. Luckily I’m 6-2.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I stand 5'3 and have had several women tell me that I'm just not tall enough. It's rather disheartening.

I guess going for shorter women would improve your odds. I presume the perception of a 4-10 woman would be different from a 5-7 one.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Were you really?

Yep, and some of the people surrounding it still post here daily. I don't remember if anyone ever apologized, which makes me think they didn't.

[Flasch186]

I had to look up what doxxed means

I can’t believe that happened


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[sovereignstar v2]

That's funny. You don't remember you and others questioning my identity to the point that someone posted my name and address.? You are one of the people I was referring to up above.

I unearthed the biggest FOF league cheating scandal and was rewarded by being doxxed.

Sorry for derailing...

[Flasch186]

Me?

I guess I didn’t know what a docking was or that I was involved especially if it involved the silliness of fake football.

Not my intention to have someone post personal info. I assume I didn’t do that.

Apologies

Edit: I do remember a member of my fake league threatening to come shoot me partially because I’m Jewish. That was fun.


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[sovereignstar v2]

Was his name Yiannis or Bossman?

[Flasch186]

I don’t recall the name but I guess I was more than zero% worried but less than 2% at the time for it to register this long term.


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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

That's funny. You don't remember you and others questioning my identity to the point that someone posted my name and address.? You are one of the people I was referring to up above.

I unearthed the biggest FOF league cheating scandal and was rewarded by being doxxed.

Sorry for derailing...

OK, now I'm interested in what all this is about.

[sovereignstar v2]

I can't imagine there is much interest in learning about how one of the OG leagues had a commissioner re-rolling the dice.

[sovereignstar v2]

https://youtu.be/wp_FlThJBSE

[Solecismic]

I hope no one minds if I do all this again someday and I don't include multiplayer.

[sovereignstar v2]

TCY2 and I love you long time

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I hope no one minds if I do all this again someday and I don't include multiplayer.

Is this a post about dating or football?

[Flasch186]

Lol


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[sabotai]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

I can't imagine there is much interest in learning about how one of the OG leagues had a commissioner re-rolling the dice.

You would be wrong. I would watch that 30 for 30.

[GrantDawg]

I wasn't involved, but I do sort of remember the drama.

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[Edward64]

I’m interested in the gory details.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Eh. You show up at one bar in the Pilot's uniform, you would do fine.

I show up at a bar in my uniform and (presumably drink) I probably get fired the next day. So that's not a thing.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is this a post about dating or football?

Ever see the movie Her? Single-player with a better AI is far superior.

I'm very surprised China hasn't already gone this route, coming off the one-child fiasco.

TCY2? No thanks. Full free-agency every year, no more academics, no one knows how to tackle, NIL, the Big Ten expands to include Manchester United and Arsenal... no fun at all.

[sovereignstar v2]

Dammit Jim. You know when you're a certain age and you think about love interests to help fall asleep. I didn't think about girls, I thought about TCY2. And maybe that is part of my problem lol

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Dammit Jim. You know when you're a certain age and you think about love interests to help fall asleep. I didn't think about girls, I thought about TCY2. And maybe that is part of my problem lol

You're the real McCoy

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by sabotai

You would be wrong. I would watch that 30 for 30.

I really shouldn't have brought it up. I was bored tonight and started looking for old posts and private messages. Here are my findings:

1) The timeline in my head is off
2) I was a little bitch back then and very defensive
3) Flasch apologized for his role (he obviously didn't want me doxxed, I don't even know if that term was born when it happened), however I didn't accept it. A couple of screwballs in his league got in his head that I had multiple aliases and owned multiple teams in multiple leagues and his lack of trust in me just upset me. The main culprit of the whole ordeal called Flasch an effin Jew and used the n-word on me at one point believing I was an African-American.
4) The real scandal happened years later and didn't involve Flasch's league, but one I was very much a part of. I saw inconsistencies in the numbering of the game log and boxscore files. I believe I opened up the (*.fbo? and *.flo?) files and it painted a picture of playoff games (in particular) being re-simmed a lot. The commissioner's team made some nice deep runs in the playoffs - runs that cut my own team's short. One championship in particular was totally staged to be between his team and the team of my bestie, who had no idea. It took a lot of "dice rolling" to make that matchup happen.

Long story short, I took the commish to task on it in PM's and said he needed to hand the league over immediately or I would out him. This was a league that the people in it really loved and I didn't want their experiences to be ruined like mine was when I found out. I asked someone important in the community if I was doing the right thing and they said yes. That person is the only one I told for years. I eventually confided in my friend as he was no longer involved with the league.

This was 15 years ago and I'm not really sure why I'm sharing it now. I kind of felt like I got the short end of the straw from a lot of the community when I really just wanted to be one of the popular guys. I remember really wanting to be a part of IHOF at one point, but it never happened. This probably is a good reminder as to why commissioners probably shouldn't have their own teams. There were loopholes to look at everyone's gameplans as well and I know it was being done. In another instance I went as far to prove that a GM was gaming the system to figure out the minimum amount of dollars it'd take to do a contract extension. There were other loopholes as well. In fact, I had to use them to expose the people that were using them. I can understand why Jim wouldn't want to deal with MP again.

[Flasch186]

I assume the guy threatening you was the same guy that threatened to come kill me. I don’t recall any of the stuff that happened outside of my league and know the rerolling wasn’t me cuz I suck and always have at being a gm. Lol

Sorry that all went down back then.


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[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

And confidence is key, too. I think they can smell desperation.

This is so true. Confidence is very attractive, and lack of confidence is really unattractive.

I struggled with this a lot before I met the woman who became my wife (together 25 years, married 20). I think the confirmation came after we were married and I stopped having any interest in other women. I suddenly got a lot more attention in social settings from women than I ever had.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

I can't imagine there is much interest in learning about how one of the OG leagues had a commissioner re-rolling the dice.

I think you seriously underestimate how bored most of us are.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I think you seriously underestimate how bored most of us are.

What he said.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Long story short, I took the commish to task on it in PM's and said he needed to hand the league over immediately or I would out him. This was a league that the people in it really loved and I didn't want their experiences to be ruined like mine was when I found out. I asked someone important in the community if I was doing the right thing and they said yes. That person is the only one I told for years. I eventually confided in my friend as he was no longer involved with the league.

So what happened in the end?

[Izulde]

Well this took an unexpected swerve

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So what happened in the end?

I ran the league for several years before handing it over to better hands. I had forgotten this, but I let the dice man remain as a GM. I assume I did that for continuity sake - he was well-liked there and on this board. He eventually became a GM in IHOF. As for myself, I've been retired from FOF for over ten years. I still load up TCY in an XP virtual machine every now and then to get some of the joy back I had for the game 15-20 years ago.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Well this took an unexpected swerve

I agree, I like it.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I agree, I like it.

Is it wrong to hope that the big reveal is that Barbara is Dave Dial's sister-in-law?

I think the commish re-simming playoff games was more widespread than one would expect. I thought about adding some code that would give leagues the ability to verify this sort of thing, but... what if a league ended up screwed because there was some sort of problem during simming and the commish had a legitimate reason to re-sim and was then accused of cheating?

One of the biggest MP issues is the reliance on a very small set of people to do the heavy lifting in setting up, running and organizing. I added encryption to head off the easiest ways to cheat and tried to work with a couple of commissioners to give them more complete and useful file exports, but without providing a pro-level web interface, there's always going to be too much burden on commissioners with relatively little reward.

I think EA had the right idea - and spent some serious money on the concept. It's too bad it didn't work out.

[Austin90]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I assume the guy threatening you was the same guy that threatened to come kill me. I don’t recall any of the stuff that happened outside of my league and know the rerolling wasn’t me cuz I suck and always have at being a gm. Lol

Sorry that all went down back then.


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Wait what? Scrolling through and seeing this left me like

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I think the commish re-simming playoff games was more widespread than one would expect. I thought about adding some code that would give leagues the ability to verify this sort of thing, but... what if a league ended up screwed because there was some sort of problem during simming and the commish had a legitimate reason to re-sim and was then accused of cheating?

There's only so much you can do to legislate against human behavior. If a commish has a corrupted file and is honest and transparent about having to sim a couple of times due to technical issues and the GMs think they can't trust the GM, it's a human problem, not a game problem.

To put it another way, you could implement the perfect technical solution and people would still complain, and still cheat.

[NobodyHere]

Well I had a good walk today with the Trumper and a new person. It was only us three but we had a good time. The 5K walk passed by seamlessly.

[NobodyHere]

Tomorrow there might be some drama. The Trumper has threatened not to show up if another member shows up. Lets call her Mary. Anyways I haven't met her much but Mary seems to me like an old hippie to me.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Tomorrow there might be some drama. The Trumper has threatened not to show up if another member shows up. Lets call her Mary. Anyways I haven't met her much but Mary seems to me like an old hippie to me.

Just like a Trumper to cause disruption. It's not even his walk to host. This is in a nutshell why Trumpers are the worst human being, they need to stay in their herd or scare/bull rush off anyone who counters their bullshit.

[Flasch186]

I’m sure it’s cuz the lib is such a snowflake


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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Just like a Trumper to cause disruption. It's not even his walk to host. This is in a nutshell why Trumpers are the worst human being, they need to stay in their herd or scare/bull rush off anyone who counters their bullshit.

To be fair, it's not like he caused a scene or anything. He disliked another member of the group and just didn't show up.

[Flasch186]

Why did he dislike her? Was she constantly talking about global warming being man made out trickle down economics while out there? Was she accusing him of being a racist?


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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Why did he dislike her? Was she constantly talking about global warming being man made out trickle down economics while out there? Was she accusing him of being a racist?


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I asked why and this is the reason I got:

Originally Posted by Trumper

I'm not against anybody. Her vibes and my vibes don't mix. When our vibes get mixed together it's like throwing a plugged in microwave into the bathtub while your in the bathtub and your taking a bath

[Flasch186]

Ah

So he’s a snowflake

Got it


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