OOTP 20 Challenge Draft Thread - Rd 17 Pick 10 (spleen1015)

[DavidCorperial]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Oh, just an off the cuff comment for discussion.

If this goes well and everyone like the season I have been throwing around a couple other ideas for something similar.

Maybe picking random states (or groups of states) and players can only pick one player from that state (group of states) on their team. Was thinking countries but I don't know if that is possible.

Another idea that I had was finding coming up with the worst teams ever based on single season record and only players from those teams can be drafted (and only one from each team can be drafted on each player's team).

Just some food for thought.

Would definitely be interested in some more ideas for thses.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, I would say that I get the feeling that when we get done, 18 games will have felt like not long enough. This has been a blast!

[Vince, Pt. II]

Last list for the night: by MLB team:

St. Louis Cardinals	7
Boston Red Sox		6
Chicago Cubs		6
Cincinnati Reds		6
New York Yankees	6
Los Angeles Dodgers	5
Cleveland Indians	4
Philadelphia Phillies	4
Baltimore Orioles	3
Colorado Rockies	3
Detroit Tigers		3
Houston Astros		3
Kansas City Royals	3
Montreal Expos		3
Philadelphia A's	3
San Francisco Giants	3
Seattle Mariners	3
Toronto Blue Jays	3
Atlanta Braves		2
Brooklyn Dodgers	2
Minnesota Twins		2
New York Giants		2
New York Mets		2
Oakland A's		2
Pittsburgh Pirates	2
San Diego Padres	2
Texas Rangers		2
Anaheim Angels		1
Arizona Diamondbacks	1
Buffalo Bisons		1
Chicago White Sox	1
Cleveland Naps		1
Cleveland Spiders	1
Detroit Wolverines	1
Miami Marlins		1
Milwaukee Braves	1
Milwaukee Brewers	1
St. Louis Browns	1
Washington Nationals	1
Washington Senators	1

[spleen1015]

So, a question about that. If a player for the Cleveland Naps was selected, how does it count?

The Cleveland Naps eventually became the Cleveland Indians. Are we counting this as the same team or two different teams?

[Vince, Pt. II]

It was mentioned somewhere that if the name of the team changes, it's considered a different team. So Philadelphia A's and Oakland A's = same team, while Cleveland Naps and Cleveland Indians = different team, I would think.

[cmgdodgers]

1910 Ed Walsh SP CHW

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

It was mentioned somewhere that if the name of the team changes, it's considered a different team. So Philadelphia A's and Oakland A's = same team, while Cleveland Naps and Cleveland Indians = different team, I would think.

That's just weird to me then. I would consider a team moving cities more of a 'new' team than one that just changes their nickname.

[yeah826]

2018 SP Jacob Degrom NYM

[yeah826]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

It was mentioned somewhere that if the name of the team changes, it's considered a different team. So Philadelphia A's and Oakland A's = same team, while Cleveland Naps and Cleveland Indians = different team, I would think.

I dont think so I believe it was mentioned that the Cleveland Naps and Indians would be considered the same team.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

We'll go with the approach of. If the name changed the team changed. So A's, Giants, Dodgers and Braves would meet those restrictions (off the top of my head).

This was the reponse. Might need clarification

I understood it like Vince. You can have 1 player from the combination of Philadelphia As/Oakland A's.

However the Washington Senators and Minnesota Twins you could take 1 from each team if you wanted.

[jbergey22]

EF has my next couple of picks...... when im up

[thehitcat]

Ted Simmons C St Louis Cardinals

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

So, a question about that. If a player for the Cleveland Naps was selected, how does it count?

The Cleveland Naps eventually became the Cleveland Indians. Are we counting this as the same team or two different teams?

Same city would be same as same name.

[EagleFan]

for jbergey22:

LF Ralph Kiner, Pitt 1949

[EagleFan]

I'm thinking of doing 1 week of games at a time for simming. Either 2 or 3 times a week. Probably something along the lines of Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday.

[spleen1015]

11.10 Zach Britton 2016 Orioles
12.1 Ed Delahanty 1895 Phillies

Ed Delahanty is one the more intriguing players in MLB history for me. He was kicked off a train for disorderly conduct while drunk. He eventually fell into the Niagra river and went over the falls. His body was found 2 weeks later. It is uncertain whether he jumped on purpose, fell in by accident or was pushed in.

[ntndeacon]

I'm enjoying the heck outta following this!

[EagleFan]

for jbergey22

C Thurmon Munson, NYY 1973

[thehitcat]

CF Cesar Cedeno Houston Astros

Sorry in KC without my list until I get home on Sunday so I don’t have the years at hand. Will add them in when I get home on Sunday.

[yeah826]

1981 Rollie Fingers Closer MIL

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by thehitcat

Ted Simmons C St Louis Cardinals

Originally Posted by thehitcat

SS Cesar Cedeno Houston Astros

Sorry in KC without my list until I get home on Sunday so I don’t have the years at hand. Will add them in when I get home on Sunday.

These picks will count but I won't ener them on the front page until I get the year.

Easier for me to keep track of as I enter them as I enter them in the game.

[EagleFan]

I did put them in the draft list so others can see they were taken, just not on your team list yet.

[EagleFan]

Updated through here but the two players without years aren't included in the rosters yet.

Current Positional Rankings
C - Clowns, Corn Kings, Steamers, Wreckers, Federals, Cyberams, Dragons, Raiders
1B - Corn Kings, Raiders, Federals, Wreckers, Cyberams, Clowns, Dragons, Aquaracers, Knights, Steamers
2B - Knights, Federals, Corn Kings, Clowns, Dragons, Steamers, Raiders, Cyberams, Aquaracers
3B - Knights, Federals, Raiders, Cyberams, Corn Kings, Aquaracers, Steamers, Dragons, Clowns
SS - Raiders, Knights, Federals, Wreckers, Dragons, Cyberams, Clowns, Steamers
LF - Clowns, Steamers, Aquaracers, Cyberams, Federals, Raiders, Corn Kings, Wreckers, Knights
CF - Steamers, Wreckers, Knights, Dragons, Federals, Corn Kings, Aquaracers, Raiders, Cyberams
RF - Federals, Dragons, Raiders, Cyberams, Aquaracers, Clowns, Corn Kings, Wreckers, Steamers, Knights
SP - Aquaracers, Dragons, Steamers, Clowns, Corn Kings, Federals, Wreckers, Raiders, Knights, Cyberams
RP - Wreckers, Cyberams, Clowns, Knights, Corn Kings, Dragons, Federals, Steamers
CL - Wreckers, Clowns, Knights, Corn Kings, Dragons, Federals, Cyberams, Steamers

[jbergey22]

Just looking at yeah's team. The left side of the infield is Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith. The left side of the diamond is a wall. Defense is probably the secret to winning this. Everyone should have great hitters and pitching which leaves defense the x factor.

With that said I still think Ozzie in the 3rd was a bit of a reach Real life Ozzie would be much more valuable than 100 defense game version of Ozzie.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Man, his whole defense is pretty amazing outside of Bonds and DiMaggio.

My way too early power rankings, omitting my own team for bias reasons:

9. Stamford Cyberarms
Someone had to be last. There are a lot of incredible players here - I'm particularly fond of Yaz, Collins, and Al Rosen - but I feel like there are very few of the truly elite players, and Pud Galvin was (to me) a huge swing and a miss that early in the draft.

8. Baltimore Steamers
I love the idea of an all-defense team, but I think jbergey22 is right - I don't seem to remember defensive specialists being as valuable in OOTP as they are in real life, and despite some thump out of Bonds, DiMaggio, and some of the later round picks (Votto & Cabrera, particularly), I think the (very relative) lack of offensive depth is going to hurt.

7. Canton Raiders
I think Boggs was a little bit of a reach that early, and I don't really like Rod Carew as a 1B - as a 2B he's very good, but playing a corner position with that little power, I think you just give up too much, especially seeing someone like Pujols last as long as he did. That being said, A-Rod will go a long way to making up for that with his pop out of the SS slot, and Stan Musial was a steal in the 4th. I also really liked all of picks 7 through 11. 12 though...

6. Big Inning Corn Kings
It's really hard to rank these guys this low, but there are some absolutely stacked teams out there. Lou Gehrig is an incredible player, and his 1927 was insane. That being said, he plays maybe the deepest position in baseball; I mean pick the better line between these two:

	HR	SB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	dWAR
A	47	10	.373	.474	.765	1.240	220	-0.2
B	47	16	.327	.443	.658	1.101	189	+0.8

Clearly Gehrig is better...but is he 101 draft slots better? Similar story with Ty Cobb. Both bhlloy and I have lamented our early CF picks because of the depth of the position. That being said, I absolutely love tons of picks that tarcone has made. Mike Schmidt is for my money the best 3B out there, and the combination of Bob Gibson and Lefty Grove is probably no worse than 2nd or 3rd best in the league thus far.

5. New York Knights
There's a lot to like here; Rogers Hornsby is absurdly good, and I loved the Mathewson, Ichiro, and Eckersley picks. That being said, while the team has some of the best hitters to ever play the game...there isn't a ton of thump in that lineup.

4. Otisburg Aquaracers
That pitching staff is killer. Then you add Henderson and Davis at the top of the order, with Guerrero, Harper, McCovey, Thome, and Soriano to back them up...what's not to like? Again, all these teams are just stacked with elite players, and I think that while that lineup is amazing, it's just not quite up to the lofty standards being set by the top three.

3. San Fernando Dragons
Another insane pitching staff, and this one goes three deep. Plus perhaps the best closer of all time coming out of the pen. My initial ding for bhlloy's team was going to be the lack of power, but with Walker and Pujols - who is the steal of the draft so far in my book - that problem is being solved in an absolute hurry.

2. Tallahassee Federals
Really, really enjoy the team Breeze has put together. Wagner and Morgan at the second turn were inspired picks, and I thought Foxx was a pretty great value in the 5th. This might be my favorite lineup of the bunch...unfortunately I think the pitching staff is the "weak" spot, keeping them out of the #1 slot, which goes to...

1. Indianapolis Clowns
To me, it's a toss-up between the Clowns and the Aquaracers for the best pitching staff, with the Corn Kings and Dragons just a hair behind (and the Dragons probably only so because of EagleFan's Positional Rankings lists which dislike Cy Young). Combine that with a formidable lineup with the Splendid Splinter, Big Mac, Piazza, Ott, Dawson, the Big Cat...and you have the makings of a very complete team. Britton blew me away when I looked him up - I remember his season being good, but an 803 ERA+?!!?

[spleen1015]

Great write up Vince. Thanks!

[yeah826]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Just looking at yeah's team. The left side of the infield is Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith. The left side of the diamond is a wall. Defense is probably the secret to winning this. Everyone should have great hitters and pitching which leaves defense the x factor.

With that said I still think Ozzie in the 3rd was a bit of a reach Real life Ozzie would be much more valuable than 100 defense game version of Ozzie.

Smith was definitely a reach in the 3rd but I felt that I really need a good defensive star at the shortstop and I had a feeling he definitely gonna get picked up sooner rather than later, and I didn't want to take that chance. Plus his dWAR stats were outrageous.

[cmgdodgers]

1886 King Kelly C Cubs

[Vince, Pt. II]

12.6 Scott Rolen - 3B - 2004 - St. Louis Cardinals

[yeah826]

One thing I'm starting to wonder is if it's allowed to pick up Starting Pitchers to be our relievers or do we have to use relievers in the RP spots.

Also Vince great write up I do feel that with such a short season there will be a lot of players who will slump or boom through out the season. A good defensive line up guards against that especially since this is a league with tons of elite pitching I think the scores may be the difference between a good defense and base running.

I am also wondering though how are some teams gonna set up their batting order. With so much elite batting talent what strategies will teams try to go for for that extra advantage.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Thanks guys, it was fun analyzing the teams. I think it's a great point about lineup construction...I made it a point to get two "top of the order" types in Raines and Gwynn (waited just one round too long for Rickey, damn it), but with all of the crazy talent is it even necessary?

And bench slots - with no injuries, how are people going to construct their bench? I mean, who in the world would ever pinch hit for 90% of the guys on our teams?

[bhlloy]

Sorry guys, I’m insanely hungover and at the airport trying to get out of Vegas. Go ahead and skip me and I’ll catch up this evening. Sorry for the delay.

[bhlloy]

Hey, so are the Cleveland Spiders considered a different team than the Cleveland Naps/Indians franchise? I'm a bit lost on the rules?

If so, then I'm going to take a risk and pick a guy who didn't play LF until later in his career, but I'm hoping I can slot either he or Larry there. If not, he's an incredible option for DH or a lefty off the bench I guess.

RF Shoeless Joe Jackson, 1912 Cleveland Naps

If I can't make this pick due to the Cleveland franchise rule, let me know and I'll change it

[tarcone]

RP Dan Quisenberry 1983 Kansas City Royals

Fan Favorite

[DavidCorperial]

12.9 - 1967 RP Ted Abernathy Cincinnati Reds

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by cmgdodgers

1886 King Kelly C Cubs

He shows as RF on the main screen but is rated at catcher as well. Looks like he played a couple more games at RF than at C that year. Just an FYI.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Hey, so are the Cleveland Spiders considered a different team than the Cleveland Naps/Indians franchise? I'm a bit lost on the rules?

If so, then I'm going to take a risk and pick a guy who didn't play LF until later in his career, but I'm hoping I can slot either he or Larry there. If not, he's an incredible option for DH or a lefty off the bench I guess.

RF Shoeless Joe Jackson, 1912 Cleveland Naps

If I can't make this pick due to the Cleveland franchise rule, let me know and I'll change it

I didn't anticipate the pre 1900 picks being so popular. I've been treating teams like the Spiders as their own "franchise" for those pre-1900 teams.

[EagleFan]

Updated through here:

Current Positional Rankings
C - Clowns, Corn Kings, Steamers, Wreckers, Federals, Cyberams, Dragons, Raiders
1B - Corn Kings, Raiders, Federals, Wreckers, Cyberams, Clowns, Dragons, Aquaracers, Knights, Steamers
2B - Knights, Federals, Corn Kings, Clowns, Dragons, Steamers, Raiders, Cyberams, Aquaracers
3B - Knights, Wreckers, Federals, Raiders, Cyberams, Corn Kings, Aquaracers, Steamers, Dragons, Clowns
SS - Raiders, Knights, Federals, Wreckers, Dragons, Cyberams, Clowns, Steamers
LF - Clowns, Steamers, Aquaracers, Cyberams, Federals, Raiders, Corn Kings, Wreckers, Knights
CF - Steamers, Wreckers, Knights, Dragons, Federals, Corn Kings, Aquaracers, Raiders, Cyberams
RF - Federals, Dragons, Raiders, Cyberams, Aquaracers, Knights, Clowns, Corn Kings, Wreckers, Steamers
SP - Aquaracers, Dragons, Steamers, Clowns, Corn Kings, Federals, Wreckers, Raiders, Knights, Cyberams
RP - Cyberams, Wreckers, Corn Kings, Clowns, Knights, Dragons, Federals, Steamers
CL - Wreckers, Clowns, Knights, Corn Kings, Dragons, Federals, Cyberams, Steamers

[Breeze]

Give me a minute...I’m not in front of my pc

[tarcone]

Loved the wrote up. Looking at the draft and the seasons in play, this has to be razor thin across the board. I think management of your roster may have an affect.

[tarcone]

And the Corn Kings are playing Launch Angle and Exit Velocity.

We are going to try and pound the crap out of you. Lots of HRs coming out of Big Inning.

[Breeze]

12.10 - 1984 Willie Hernandez - RP
13.1 - 2018 Mookie Betts - RF

[DavidCorperial]

13.2 - 1979 RP Jim Kern Texas Rangers

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

7. Canton Raiders
I think Boggs was a little bit of a reach that early, and I don't really like Rod Carew as a 1B - as a 2B he's very good, but playing a corner position with that little power, I think you just give up too much, especially seeing someone like Pujols last as long as he did. That being said, A-Rod will go a long way to making up for that with his pop out of the SS slot, and Stan Musial was a steal in the 4th. I also really liked all of picks 7 through 11. 12 though...

Nice writeups. That plan of attack with Carew is to play second base or DH. Bagewell and his unbelievable 1994 season is likely going to be the 1b. Alomar was a much better right handed hitter so he will start against leftys and come in as a defensive replacement when Carew starts I kind of built my team according to how I would with a 162 game schedule with players being able to play multiple positions and having platoon advantages. Probably wont be as effective in a season like this.

I would have loved to have grabbed Pujols later however Stan Musial was using up my Cardinals spot.... You are right I regretted the Boggs pick. At the time it looked like a scarce position in which I wanted to not get stuck with a weaker player however I could have waited and ended up with a better value option....

[jbergey22]

I know this was asked earlier about starting pitchers being relief pitchers. They seem to do just fine as relief pitchers in "perfect team". I believe I have read on the OOTP forums that they even get an uptick in ratings becoming a relief pitchers. I dont think I would eliminate that as an option.

I presume EF will give each team a 2 man starting pitching staff so the computer will bump everyone else to relief pitcher and use them as well as the game uses the other relief pitchers(not up to managerial standards but consistent with how the other relief pitchers are used) If you wanted the game to use Cy Young as a setup man the computer is perfectly capable of putting him in the role.

The biggest disappointment to me is how poorly the pre 1970 star pitchers seem to have ported in. 19 WAR seasons porting in under 3 stars and the GOAT porting in under 3 stars says enough with that.

[cmgdodgers]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

He shows as RF on the main screen but is rated at catcher as well. Looks like he played a couple more games at RF than at C that year. Just an FYI.

He’s eligible at catcher , can he play there?

[tarcone]

13-3 1999 SS Omar Vizquel Cleveland Indians

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by cmgdodgers

He’s eligible at catcher , can he play there?

Yes.

For the pitchers, if you want to put the starters in a relief spot they can be placed there.

[bhlloy]

13.4 LF Luis Gonzalez, 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks

[EagleFan]

Updated through here:

Current Positional Rankings
C - Clowns, Corn Kings, Steamers, Wreckers, Federals, Cyberams, Dragons, Raiders
1B - Corn Kings, Raiders, Federals, Wreckers, Cyberams, Clowns, Dragons, Aquaracers, Knights, Steamers
2B - Knights, Federals, Corn Kings, Clowns, Dragons, Steamers, Raiders, Cyberams, Aquaracers
3B - Knights, Wreckers, Federals, Raiders, Cyberams, Corn Kings, Aquaracers, Steamers, Dragons, Clowns
SS - Raiders, Knights, Federals, Wreckers, Dragons, Cyberams, Clowns, Corn Kings, Steamers
LF - Clowns, Steamers, Aquaracers, Dragons, Cyberams, Federals, Raiders, Corn Kings, Wreckers, Knights
CF - Steamers, Wreckers, Knights, Dragons, Federals, Corn Kings, Aquaracers, Raiders, Cyberams
RF - Federals, Dragons, Raiders, Cyberams, Aquaracers, Knights, Clowns, Corn Kings, Wreckers, Steamers
SP - Aquaracers, Dragons, Steamers, Clowns, Corn Kings, Federals, Wreckers, Raiders, Knights, Cyberams
RP - Cyberams, Wreckers, Federals, Corn Kings, Clowns, Knights, Dragons, Steamers
CL - Wreckers, Clowns, Knights, Corn Kings, Dragons, Federals, Cyberams, Steamers