Alright boyz, it's the BBCF First Impressions thread.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Yes, a two-pronged solution, but a two-tiered one, too, I'm fairly certain, unless he's changed his mind in the last 12-24 hours about it.

Adding any new feature increases the risk of residual issues/crashes, and requires more testing than dialing down a setting such as injury severity, which is much less risky. I get the impression that Arlie is trying to remove issues which are show-stoppers for some first and quickly in the 1.02 patch, and then make the additions/enhancements/etc. in an update.

This is right. We will have an update 1.1 that will include the injury options, playoff bracket and a player editor (among other things). But, this 1.02 patch is for just the main issues.

I am also going to be releasing an update demo as well with the fixes. I will release both an update (~5 mb) and a new demo install to minimize the download size for those with it already.

As to the cancer injury issue, I had removed it from the pstats.dat table on the full release install and one version of the demo install. I am not sure if they are still in the mods and/or older demos. I will make sure it is removed from the patch install, but I don't like to overwrite pstats.dat files on updates as many people have custom mods. If you happen to have a custom mod with them in it, you can remove them from the injury table and they won't show up.

[jonesz]

Makes sense.. Thanks for the update!

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Arles

I am also going to be releasing an update demo as well with the fixes.

Tres excellent. Merci!

Originally Posted by SkyDog

No. You have a lot of posts and have been around a long time. You are elite. No worries.

Well played. I think we need a user title for Quirky and Funny.

[jbmagic]

The Bowl Bound review has been posted at Out of Eight PC Game Reviews:

http://jaguarusf.blogspot.com/2005/1...ll-review.html

[DaddyTorgo]

count me on the list of people that'll be buying after the first patch. I just don't want to get started on anything while the injury-bug is still affecting things

[jbmagic]

from the review link above, is this true on the retail version?

By far the biggest problem I have with Bowl Bound College Football is how the games unfold. There doesn’t seem to be a good correlation between the offensive play, the defensive play, and the result. Here are some examples:
1. An inside run against pass defense for a gain of 0 yards
2. An inside run against dime deep zone for a gain of 1 yard
3. A completed streak pass for 3 yards
4. An inside run against dime middle zone for a gain of 0 yards
5. A 56-yard TD run off tackle to a side with 4 people run blitzing
6. A short curl route completed for 63 yards
7. A deep corner route completed for 4 yards
8. A deep post route completed for 2 yards
This is done with two evenly matched teams with mostly orange (average) players. The play by play is also sometimes incorrect, such as “for a small gain” actually being a two-yard loss. My first season, I lost three games in overtime: one fumble, one interception, and one blocked 22-yard field goal. I’m not sure if this is extremely bad luck or the game is cheating, but either way it is very frustrating. I also went down early 21-0 to a really bad team (at least worse than mine) because of a 77-yard TD pass when I was in deep zone, a fumble return, and a 65-yard run when I was in run defense. When I run a smash mouth (run oriented) offense with good linemen and running backs against a bad defense, I expect to get better than 30 rushes for 12 yards. The game provides more realistic play results when it quickly sims them without user input, however. I would tend to believe the results of the plays better if I could see the players running around, even if it was just a simple overhead view with circles walking too and fro (and that’s all I’d expect). I can’t believe the results of each play otherwise, because from my experience it just doesn’t make sense. The strange thing is that I haven’t seen other people complaining about this on the official message boards, so maybe it’s just me and my sucky play calling, but since you’re stuck reading my review, I’m going to make my complaints, darn it. The simulated results are seemingly realistic; I just get way too frustrated calling the plays myself, to the point of wanting to quit the game. That’s never good.

[Schmidty]

How in the hell does one change a player's position? It's pissing me off.

[Coffee Warlord]

It's on the main roster screen. Highlight them and there's a button near the bottom to change position.

Oh. By the way. Another request, regarding that very thing. Can we get a "current -> new" position rating in that pop up box? IE - I don't want to just know what their skill will be at the new position, I wanna know what their skill is at their old position in that same popup box.

[dubb93]

1. An inside run against pass defense for a gain of 0 yards
2. An inside run against dime deep zone for a gain of 1 yard
3. A completed streak pass for 3 yards
4. An inside run against dime middle zone for a gain of 0 yards
5. A 56-yard TD run off tackle to a side with 4 people run blitzing
6. A short curl route completed for 63 yards
7. A deep corner route completed for 4 yards
8. A deep post route completed for 2 yards

Well, considering that is just 8 plays it is a pretty small sample size. The only ones I have a problem with are the last 2, as I have seen them. The other ones aren't out of the realm of possibility. I call all my own plays and haven't seen many of the problems he has seen. Infact, I've gone both 12-0 and had losing seasons calling my own plays and have no problems with my running stats(RB averaging 5.63 ypc in current season) or passing. And I've NEVER seen anything even resemble 30 carries for 12 yards. I can't even imagine the plays he was calling, they just must have been completely sitting on the run.

[dubb93]

A 45-yard “short” curl route against short zone? Show me how that works.

Another quote from this guys review. Yes, this happens, but not very often from what I've seen. This guy must not watch much college football. Is it that hard to believe that the "orange" rated player in that zone(he said he was playing with mostly orange rated players) would miss the tackle and the WR could make a move in the open field?

[Flasch186]

i will say that some of the commentary is annoying when it doesnt match up to the results...bleh.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

i will say that some of the commentary is annoying when it doesnt match up to the results...bleh.

agree with that, but mainly just on 3rd and 4th and 1.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

It's on the main roster screen. Highlight them and there's a button near the bottom to change position.

Thanks man. That was really bugging me.

I was trying to do it during week 18, and apparantly, it's not possible then.

[larrymcg421]

Yikes:

Florida Atlantic ball, Q2, 4-10-FAU3 (00:09) 10-14
Offense: Long Pass, Set: Trips, Play: TR-WR3-str-FL-curl
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-2-5, Play: 425-pass-MZ

QB Dave Haynes drops back to pass. It doesn't matter though as OLB Erik Miller is right there and buries him for a sack.FAU: Loss of 10 on the play.


Louisiana-Monroe ball, Q2, 1-10-FAU-7 (00:03) 14-10

Wally Lee will attempt the 11 yard field goal.The snap is good, here's the kick it just misses inches to the left!

[Bee]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

from the review link above, is this true on the retail version?

I more or less agree with him. The overall stats you get in the game are reasonable, but how it gets there doesn't make a lot of sense. In my experience, the AI playcalling was off in several situations and the results as the reviewer describes often didn't make a lot of logical sense. I tried playing the game by calling plays, but after one season of that I gave up and started just simming the games.


--------------
edit:
In my first post in this thread I said:

Playcalling. This is just bad. Watch a few games and what you see going on doesn't make a lot of sense a good part of the time. The end results are usually reasonable, but the way it gets there doesn't make sense.

What the reviewer is talking about is also part of what I was talking about although he went into more detail about specifics than I did.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Bee

I more or less agree with him. The overall stats you get in the game are reasonable, but how it gets there doesn't make a lot of sense.

I more or less agree with Bee, as I've said:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=212

[Bee]

Looking over my posts, I wanted to say one thing. Most of the stuff I've posted in this thread has probably come off negative, but that's not really an accurate reflection of my opinion of the game. There are issues with the game in my opinion, but the game does a lot of stuff very well. I could come here and slap Arlie on the ass and tell him how great he is, but I think he gets enough of that on the GDS boards. I'd rather report issues I have with the game and have him check the code and fix any problems he finds because I think the game has a ton of potential.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Yikes:

Florida Atlantic ball, Q2, 4-10-FAU3 (00:09) 10-14
Offense: Long Pass, Set: Trips, Play: TR-WR3-str-FL-curl
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-2-5, Play: 425-pass-MZ

QB Dave Haynes drops back to pass. It doesn't matter though as OLB Erik Miller is right there and buries him for a sack.FAU: Loss of 10 on the play.


Louisiana-Monroe ball, Q2, 1-10-FAU-7 (00:03) 14-10

Wally Lee will attempt the 11 yard field goal.The snap is good, here's the kick it just misses inches to the left!

That's part of the "playcalling inside the 10" bug that will be fixed in the first patch.

[Arles]

It's always tough to make broad generalizations off a few plays from a few games. There are a large number of factors in any one play. Again, in verison 1.01 (and the demo), injuries and suspensions play a huge role. We also have hot routes in the game now (which would explain the 2 and 4-yard gains on long plays). But they may not have been correctly labeled in the PBP (something that will also be in the upcoming patch).

In the end, I will look back at this like every other piece of valid criticism, but I would advise people to try the game themselves and understand this is not a simple "playcalling sim". There are times when you are going to run a Dime-prevent defense and the opponent will get a big gain, times when you call a long passing play and a hot route is chosen for a short gain, and times with you call a play to stop the run and the opponent gets a big gain. Now, I will certainly agree that these shouldn't be the norm if everything else is equal (and I don't think they are). Still, coaches, injuries, individual plays by players and other aspects could turn what looked like a smart playcall into a big play for your opponent. That's the way college football sometimes goes.

But, like I said, I will and see if I can find any issues with the playcalling that are systemic to cause these types of things to happen on a normal basis. once I get the update out for 1.02, I will get more into each of the individual criticisms to see what I can find out. My goal is make this game as enjoyable experience for each player as possible.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Arles

It's always tough to make broad generalizations off a few plays from a few games. There are a large number of factors in any one play. Again, in verison 1.01 (and the demo), injuries and suspensions play a huge role. We also have hot routes in the game now (which would explain the 2 and 4-yard gains on long plays). But they may not have been correctly labeled in the PBP (something that will also be in the upcoming patch).

In the end, I will look back at this like every other piece of valid criticism, but I would advise people to try the game themselves and understand this is not a simple "playcalling sim". There are times when you are going to run a Dime-prevent defense and the opponent will get a big gain, times when you call a long passing play and a hot route is chosen for a short gain, and times with you call a play to stop the run and the opponent gets a big gain. Now, I will certainly agree that these shouldn't be the norm if everything else is equal (and I don't think they are). Still, coaches, injuries, individual plays by players and other aspects could turn what looked like a smart playcall into a big play for your opponent. That's the way college football sometimes goes.

But, like I said, I will and see if I can find any issues with the playcalling that are systemic to cause these types of things to happen on a normal basis. once I get the update out for 1.02, I will get more into each of the individual criticisms to see what I can find out. My goal is make this game as enjoyable experience for each player as possible.

Good words, Arlie.

[MizzouRah]

Ok, I plan on letting my coach do the playcalling, from that perspective.. how is the game? I just want to read the pbp as it happens, set depth charts, etc...

[IMetTrentGreen]

ok, i know a fix is coming, so this isn't a big deal, but i just finished a game using my 6th string qb. everyone was healthy before hand

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by review

6. A short curl route completed for 63 yards

Heck, Steve Smith has one of these about every week for the Panthers...

[kcchief19]

I meant to post this the other day and forgot ... my apologies.

Has anyone else encountered -- or is there a reason -- why some player records do not have game logs tracked correctly? The genesis of this question is that I was going to post the game log stats of my backup QB to show the yo-yo nature of his season, but his player record is missing the game log. Everybody else on my team seems to have a complete game log except for him.

No big deal, but if this is a fluke bug I didn't know if anyone else had noticed it, I just had bad luck or maybe this is something inherent to the demo but not the full version.

[nfg22]

Arles, Also I had my blitzing linebacker make a tackle on a 67 yard bomb, oh and when playing I have alot of plays that are short curls caught for 30-60 yards, the problem is, it says the guy caught and stepped out of bounds immediatly. This happens once or twice a game...

[Airhog]

Ive got a 40$ tax refund with BBCF's name all over it if it finally works on my computer

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

It's on the main roster screen. Highlight them and there's a button near the bottom to change position.

Oh. By the way. Another request, regarding that very thing. Can we get a "current -> new" position rating in that pop up box? IE - I don't want to just know what their skill will be at the new position, I wanna know what their skill is at their old position in that same popup box.

I don't have that button during the season. Can you only do it in the off season?

[Easy Mac]

I think the change can only be made in the preseason, I think there is a specific time.

[dubb93]

Alright, "Adaptability", why do I need to put anything there during player training? I've been trying to find the game manual for about the last 10 minutes and can't seem to find it anywhere on the internet or my computer.

[GabeRivers]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Alright, "Adaptability", why do I need to put anything there during player training? I've been trying to find the game manual for about the last 10 minutes and can't seem to find it anywhere on the internet or my computer.

Dubb93, the only reference I've found in the manual is in the Training section, where it states regarding "Adaptability": "emphasize this when you want the player to switch positions."

Taking that at face value, I would assume that you could leave that setting at zero unless you intend to have a player switch to another position.

[Bonegavel]

What I think is best about the game is that most, if not all, of the problems are tweaks to the engine and logic fixes in the pbp.

Would be sweet if the injuries stuff was part of the options and we could set our own levels. This would do away with the need for this fix.

Other than that, this is a solid foundation and I can't wait for the fofc-bbcf league to get rolling in january.

[dubb93]

I just hit the suggest button when doing my player training and got the following reccomendations for an OT...

Football Skills-40
Strength and conditioning-25
Academics-40
Adaptability- "-5"

I'm not going to push it, but this could be a potential cheat if the game would let it go through(I'm not going to chance it ruining my career). If it allows negative numbers you could put "-400" in adaptability and have 400 extra points to spread across the ones that actually matter.

Posting this on the greydog forums.

[dubb93]

And I just got another recommendation of 40/40/40/-20.

Something tells me the computer is useing the hell out of this.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by dubb93

And I just got another recommendation of 40/40/40/-20.

Something tells me the computer is useing the hell out of this.

I mentioned this to Arlie a few days ago. I would think it is addressed in the patch, but I'm going slowly, but plan to check on it when I get to that week.

[dubb93]

FWIW I'm going to save the game after I get through setting my player training and then run 2 tests. One with everyone set to realistic no negative number training and note the changes then I'm going to set some players to -99 adaptability and run it again. Should tell us if this is a bug.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I mentioned this to Arlie a few days ago. I would think it is addressed in the patch, but I'm going slowly, but plan to check on it when I get to that week.

AHH, thanks.

[hoopsguy]

Starting to get run time errors - 91. Object variable or With block variable not set.

It is happening during games, with computer running playcalling.

I didn't see anything on the Grey Dog BBCF forum in the first 7 pages or so that talked about this error and wasn't able to come up with anything doing searches on RTE or Error 91. So I figured I would post here since Arlie has posted in this thread.

Also, any chance of offering a background save option periodically?

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Starting to get run time errors - 91. Object variable or With block variable not set.

It is happening during games, with computer running playcalling.

I didn't see anything on the Grey Dog BBCF forum in the first 7 pages or so that talked about this error and wasn't able to come up with anything doing searches on RTE or Error 91. So I figured I would post here since Arlie has posted in this thread.

Also, any chance of offering a background save option periodically?

I had the same thing happen during gameplay. I was just letting the computer finish the game and got a 4th quarter rte 91 just like hoopsguy..

[GabeRivers]

I'm crashing when trying to advance from week 9 to week 10 in the recruiting stage. First comes a dialog box titled "Application Error" which states:

The instruction at "0x7c91201e" referenced memory at "0x202f8170". The memory could not be "read".
Click on OK to terminate the program.
Click on CANCEL to debug the program.

Clicking on either one simply gives a CTD. Has anyone else seen this? BTW, I've tried it several times and the code sequences in the quotes changes each time -- but the results are the same.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by GabeRivers

I'm crashing when trying to advance from week 9 to week 10 in the recruiting stage. First comes a dialog box titled "Application Error" which states:

The instruction at "0x7c91201e" referenced memory at "0x202f8170". The memory could not be "read".
Click on OK to terminate the program.
Click on CANCEL to debug the program.

Clicking on either one simply gives a CTD. Has anyone else seen this? BTW, I've tried it several times and the code sequences in the quotes changes each time -- but the results are the same.

Send a Savegame to Arlie so he can take a look at it.

[Galaril]

I have noticed alot of RTE errors can be solved by defraging your Desktop.

[hoopsguy]

Galaril, I'll give that a try over the weekend. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Tim Tellean]

hoopsguy-If you post at the GDS forums we'll take a look at any RTE errors. Even though Arlie doesn't post at GDS doesn't mean he doesn't read his own forums.

[WSUCougar]

Patch 1.02 is out.

[GabeRivers]

Originally Posted by Icy

Send a Savegame to Arlie so he can take a look at it.

I assume I can find the proper e-mail address at the Grey Dog site and will look there. I DL'd and installed patch 1.02, rebooted, and tried to run the same save again. The results were the same. Perhaps it was because that file is corrupted from the original version? Or have I stumbled upon a bug that has not yet been addressed?

Frankly, with the new patch, I think I'm just going to start a new league and give that a try. I was only into the second season of the one that is corrupted.

I'm really liking what I'm seeing with this game and am appreciative of the support you guys are giving it.

[Icy]

Real NCAAF pstats 1.5 compatible with the latest game version (1.02)

This is the stuff modified in the database.
- Added Real Team nicknames
- Added Real conference names
- Added all the real Stadium names and capacities.
- Added all the real Award names (please check if they are correct).
- Added all the real Bowl names and Bowl Stadiums with capacities.

Fixed the following bugs found in the different releases:
Added the first and last name frequencies
UTEP name is UTEP now instead of Texas-El Paso
RICE name is RICE now instead of TexasRice
Auburn stadium name set to Jordan Hare
Arkansas stadium name set to Razorbacks
Fixed Penn State nickname that was still listed as the Cougars.
Fixed swaped Arkansas and Arkansas State abbreviations.
Fixed TCU nickname to Horned Frogs not Horn Frogs.
U Conn is now listd as UConn
The official capacity of Ross-Ade Stadium (Purdue) is now 62,500
Ball State stadium renamed Scheumann Stadium

Initials changed, important info for graphic mods makers:
I have made the following changes as some teams initials were wrong.
It affects the helmets/logos as they must have exactly the same initials than the team to be loaded in the game, else those 4 teams logos won't appear.
Virginia initials changed from VIR to UVA
(you need to change the vir.gif logo name to uva.gif and the vir-t.gif to uva-t.giv)
Oklahoma initials changed from OKL to OU
(you need to change the okl.gif logo name to ou.gif and the okl-t.gif to ou-t.giv)
Maryland initials changed from MAR to UMD
(you need to change the mary.gif logo name to umd.gif and the mary-t.gif to umd-t.giv)
Bowling Green initials changed from BG to BGSU
(you need to change the vir.gif logo name to bgsu.gif and the vir-t.gif to bgsu-t.giv)

Rivalries Adjusted
I have adjusted a lot of rivalries as suggested but i must tell you that because the game limitation of one rivalry per team, some rivalries are accurate but not 100% perfect.
Sometimes there are cross rivalries between 4 or 5 teams (for example between the Big 12 teams) and it's impossible to assign them properly so i have tried to adapt them to be realistic, but that means that for some teams, their listed rival is in real life his second rival and not the first.
Anyway i have just tried to develop a database the more accurate possible to the real NCAAF, if you don't like any of the rivalries you can always edit the file yourself for your own liking.
Now it's my time to enjoy the game and stop to make database changes unless a big bug is found.
Enjoy it

Please download, unzip and overwrite your pstats.dat and start a new game to have the changes done.
This won't affect your current saved games, only the new ones started.

Click here to download the REAL DATABASE FILE 1.5

Here you can find the updated teams logos (yahoo style) with the above changes.

Click here to download the REAL LOGOS FILE

Thanks to all the guys who contributed with their suggestions to make this possible.

[LloydLungs]

Icy, thanks for all the hard work. Just to make sure, have the first and last name frequencies been added to this?

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Icy, thanks for all the hard work. Just to make sure, have the first and last name frequencies been added to this?

It looks like they have.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Icy, thanks for all the hard work. Just to make sure, have the first and last name frequencies been added to this?

Yes, forgot to add it to the fixes list, will do it now.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by GabeRivers

I assume I can find the proper e-mail address at the Grey Dog site and will look there. I DL'd and installed patch 1.02, rebooted, and tried to run the same save again. The results were the same. Perhaps it was because that file is corrupted from the original version? Or have I stumbled upon a bug that has not yet been addressed?

Frankly, with the new patch, I think I'm just going to start a new league and give that a try. I was only into the second season of the one that is corrupted.

I'm really liking what I'm seeing with this game and am appreciative of the support you guys are giving it.

This is Arlie email [email protected] if you can, zip the whole save game and email it to him so he can find the bug if any. also you can post about it here: http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum...splay.php?f=85