Thread on Airline & Travel experiences

[Edward64]

Occam's Razor says its ghosts.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I mean if it was an issue with the amp and engine noise as they are saying, it would surely be an issue on every other airline who uses that plane model? Hard to believe they could even suggest that with a straight face.

PM - what is your expert take?

I have no clue. The fact that it's only happening on American and it's happened across multiple planes makes it awkward. Even if you hacked the entertainment system that wouldn't allow you to necessarily send it over the public address. The PA is fully self contained and hardwired on the plane. I've read a couple things that say that there is a way that a type of code that is stored a specific way could generate sounds that sound human when translated audibly with the right interference, but the entire explanation was so far over my head I have no clue how that works.

The simple answer is crew. But again, multiple planes and different times make it unlikely that some group would keep from getting ratted out. The FA's wouldn't tolerate it. So that's out. it's not the pilots. We have better things to do with our energy that fuck around on the PA. That it's sort of limited to American though makes me think that somewhere, someone has figured out how to use the satellite wifi, and get access to the entertainment system, but something unique to American, since you're not seeing it on any other companies right now. Because if I was able to hack that, I wouldn't limit it to just one company. I'd be spread it out, and we all use some variation of the same vendors for those services, so if you could hack one, you wouldn't be limited to just one company.

Honestly, I have no idea. When you step through the options, I can see why it makes the most sense to blame it on random electrons in the plane, but the sounds seem way to human, and timed a critical points, (like one said on approach, or right at touchdown) for it to NOT be human.

I am quite curious though.

[sterlingice]

You heard it here from a pilot first: it's definitely ghosts. Or aliens!

SI

[bhlloy]

What about flight crew? Some kind of modification made to multiple planes on the ground that might do that? A basic device on a timer that jacks in to the PA system that they run on certain flights to make it appear that it’s at certain times during the flight?

I mean tampering with an aircraft surely would lead to serious jail time so it would have to be ballsy, but maybe that fits?

I’m all in on this bizarre pointless mystery by the way. Who wants to start a podcast?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

What about flight crew? Some kind of modification made to multiple planes on the ground that might do that? A basic device on a timer that jacks in to the PA system that they run on certain flights to make it appear that it’s at certain times during the flight?

I mean tampering with an aircraft surely would lead to serious jail time so it would have to be ballsy, but maybe that fits?

I’m all in on this bizarre pointless mystery by the way. Who wants to start a podcast?

So you're suggesting a mechanic placed equipment or did a mod that allowed for something like that?

Highly unlikely given that everything that's ever done to a plane is recorded. If something like that was found, it would be relatively easy to narrow down just who it was. It would certainly be a major, major breach and jail time would follow. So you're talking about someone willingly tanking their career for a laugh.

Flight crew seems equally unlikely as they couldn't keep it a secret, and other flight attendants would write them up for something like this. It would probably result in some time away without pay.

I think that's what makes it odd. There's nothing that on the surface really looks plausible. It's really funny though and happy it's not on my plane.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You heard it here from a pilot first: it's definitely ghosts. Or aliens!

SI

I just visited Roswell NM today so I'm going with aliens.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just visited Roswell NM today so I'm going with aliens.

I've always wanted to visit.

I know it's very commercialized now but was it worth the trip?

[Ksyrup]

We stopped for lunch on the way down to Carlsbad on Sunday and then stopped for lunch on the way from White Sands up to Santa Fe. The second time we went to a UFO museum. I did a bunch of eye rolling and it was a weird mix of documentation, kitsch and conspiracy theory. It was a fun hour for $5.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We stopped for lunch on the way down to Carlsbad on Sunday and then stopped for lunch on the way from White Sands up to Santa Fe. The second time we went to a UFO museum. I did a bunch of eye rolling and it was a weird mix of documentation, kitsch and conspiracy theory. It was a fun hour for $5.

Did you eat at the UFO-shaped McDonalds? Also, there are a number of odd photo ops around town. It's not worth it as a destination but on your way from Carlsbad to Albuquerque? Sure, why not

SI

[Ksyrup]

No but we drove by it. We didn't stick around for long. Too much driving left to do but we did the museum just to say we did it.

[PilotMan]

This needs to be in here, because you have no idea how annoying it is to hear it repeated. Over and over and over again.

Paywall removed.

https://wapo.st/3Cd5OOJ

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

This needs to be in here, because you have no idea how annoying it is to hear it repeated. Over and over and over again.

Paywall removed.

https://wapo.st/3Cd5OOJ

I don't think it's the passengers role to know what is okay or not. If someone sees something that is out of norm, it should be the flight crew/ground engineers' responsibility to let the passengers know.

Just proactively announce it over the intercom. Or ...

On one of my flights, I don't remember what it was but there was something "off" with the wing and there was an arrow & message (written on the wing itself with like a big sharpie) that said "we know about this, it's okay".

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not quite the intent of this thread but related.

As mentioned in the Streaming thread, I've been watching YT videos on Border Security. So far, I've seen a good sampling from Australia, Canada and UK.

Australia seems to focus more on food products & cigarettes (Asian people), cash over 10K, drugs, and Indonesian boats going after shark fin etc.

Probably headed to Melbourne in Jan. Was telling the wife I want to get called for further inspection/questioning.

So my plan is to (1) act nervous just before immigration/customs (2) when asked for purpose of trip, I'm going to volunteer upfront "not for work, but here for vacation" (3) purposely not have a lot of cash on me.

The other things I've seen are (4) people with too much luggage (5) buying the flight 1-2 days before departure (6) having a quick return e.g. drug mule

I could also bring along some "food" or cartons of cigarette, and not declare them but that could cost me real money with a fine.

[Edward64]

I'm guessing alcohol had something to do with this. Please don't let him/them be from the US.

Fight breaks out on Jetstar flight from Melbourne to Brisbane: Video

A Jetstar flight had to be diverted after a “terrifying” midair brawl broke out.

Video taken inside the plane flying from Melbourne to Brisbane shows the wild moment punches were thrown before passengers tried to pull two feuding men apart.

The fight started just 24 minutes into the flight on Tuesday night.

The plane’s pilot made the decision to return to Melbourne Airport, where Australian Federal Police officers removed two men.

[Lathum]

100% this is over someone reclining their seat. The 24 minute mark adds up with when you are allowed to do that

[molson]

This is a pretty good one (plane meltdown) including a few sick burns from the the flight attendants.

On my wife’s flight from ATL to JFK this morning

[Ksyrup]

I never recline but I don't know how you get pissed when someone does it because it's totally within the functionality of the seats. You know that going in. Getting pissed because someone used a service they paid for is idiotic.

[Edward64]

Here's another one. She throws a water bottle at :12 sec.

Someone should do a "where are they now" clip. Be interesting to see if the offenders regret and/or have an explanation/rationale for their behavior.

Video of woman swearing at flight crew goes viral

The 2-minute video was posted to Reddit, with the poster writing it took place on their wife’s flight from ATL to JFK. In the clip, the woman can be seen aggressively responding to the news she has to leave, asking if it was because the dog was on her lap and appearing to not understand why it was an issue.
:
“I didn’t f – – king do anything to you guys,” she says, claiming she is 12-hours late to her destination.

“Because you couldn’t let me dog sit on my f – – king lap,” she screams, as the flight attendant says, “Ma’am, let’s go.”

The woman then launches into a furious tirade, angrily shouting at people filming her and the staff members on board.

“F – – k you. F – – k all of you,” she hollers, as fellow passengers tell her to get off the flight.

The argument then reaches a boiling point when the woman is packing her belongings into a bag and a passenger shouts, “Get off the plane.”

In response, she launched a water bottle at a passenger filming her, yelling, “Turn your f – -king phone off.” She apparently hit a passenger with the bottle, according to the crew, who said they would follow up.

[Edward64]

I've flown a lot and I've not been wedged between 2 very overweight people before. But I have been inconvenienced several times being beside one where the "excess" was flowing over the armrest onto my side. I'm going to say that I see at least one occurrence of this on vast majority of my flights.

I complained to Delta online and was told I could raise my hand and get reseated somewhere else but com'on, it should be the airlines responsibility to do that proactively vs asking a paying customer to initiate an embarrassing request for both passengers. That's just BS and taking the easy way out. And by the way, what would happen if there were no seats available or only less desirable ones.

I don't know what the right answer is but yeah, if someone needs a belt extender, that should be a sign. If there are no choices available, then the inconvenienced customer should be compensated for the full price of the flight and then some. They can optimize flight schedules, fuel costs, passenger loads etc. but they can't/unwilling to solve this problem.

Let me state very clearly so there is no mis-understanding, I believe overweight people should be allowed to get on planes. It is the airlines responsibility to make sure they and customers around them have basic comfort.

Like how the excessive runway wait times were (I've been on a couple where we sat on the plane for 5+ hours), I think this will take Congress to legislate some sort of law here. Unfortunately, this does not impact near as many people as the runway BS, and it won't happen. So these social media "protests" are likely the only avenue to apply some pressure.

Airline’s stunning flip after woman says she was trapped between overweight people

A conservative commentator shut down after her foul rant about sitting between two overweight people on a short flight has received an unexpected token of goodwill from the airline.

Sydney Watson, a right-wing American-Australian political journalist who is no stranger to controversial subjects, took to Twitter last month in an unruly campaign arguing: “If you need a seat belt extender, you are TOO FAT TO BE ON A PLANE”.

Her offensive comments came after she was seated between obese siblings on a three-hour American Airlines flight, during which she claimed she was being touched throughout.

She claimed in a lengthy Twitter post she had been “WEDGED between two OBESE people” on the flight, which she argued was “absolutely NOT acceptable or okay.”

Weak response and apology. Weak $150 trip credit BS.

At the time, American Airlines responded by saying it didn’t discriminate against body types.

“Our passengers come in all different sizes and shapes. We’re sorry you were uncomfortable on your flight,” the Twitter account for the airline replied.

In a surprising update revealed by Watson on Tuesday, it appeared the airline had a change of heart.

In an email sent to Watson on Monday, a representative said they “sincerely regret the enjoyment and comfort” of her flight was “diminished due to another customer exceeding their seat’s space”.

The representative informed Watson she would have been entitled to move seats had there been an alternate option available on the flight.

In a “gesture of goodwill”, she was issued a $150 Trip Credit.

“I can understand your disappointment with the situation not being remedied to your satisfaction,” the email also read.

[Lathum]

I agree with her. It absolutely infuriates me when an obese person spills over in to my seat and I have to feel their fat rolls on me for hours.. She has every right to be pissed. I will say the too fat to be on a plane comment was unnecessarily nasty, but people absolutely should have to buy 2 seats.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Let me state very clearly so there is no mis-understanding, I believe overweight people should be allowed to get on planes. It is the airlines responsibility to make sure they and customers around them have basic comfort.

If the airlines gave a shit about this, seat capacity would be reduced by at least 25% and the price of each individual ticket would be adjusted accordingly. They would say they have provided you the opportunity not to be uncomfortable in that sort of situation. Buy a business or first class seat.

#capitalism

[Edward64]

FWIW

https://www.elliott.org/blog/passeng...size-problems/

Official Passengers of Size policies

American Airlines: American Airlines has a clear-cut policy concerning larger passengers. If a customer extends “more than 1 inch beyond the outermost edge of the armrest and a seat belt extension is needed, another seat is required.” The person of size must pay for the additional seat.

• Delta Air Lines: Delta encourages passengers who are unable to fit in the standard seat (17.2″ width) to consider purchasing an additional seat or “upgrade to business class.”
• United Airlines: United has a strict passengers of size policy. If a customer is unable to fit in their own seat with the arm rest down without encroaching on the neighboring seat, the passenger must purchase an additional seat. If the traveler has not purchased the additional seat ahead of time, they will be charged a walk-up rate (some of the most expensive tickets available).
• Southwest Airlines: Southwest has some of the most friendly policies concerning passengers who need extra space. The airline encourages all travelers who believe they may need an extra seat to call ahead and reserve one. This enables the airline to “adequately plan for the number of seats that will be occupied on the flight.” At the completion of the journey, the passenger may apply for a refund of the extra seat.

What are your rights as a passenger of size or their seatmate?

• Fly later. If you’re seated next to a passenger of size who can’t fit into one seat and your schedule is flexible, ask a flight attendant if you can take the next flight. If there’s room on the next plane, you might be better off traveling later.
• Know your legal rights. Unfortunately, you don’t really have that many. The contract of carriage, the legal contract between you and the airline, does not say you have a right to a full seat. Generally, the crew’s attitude is that if you can sit in the seat and use your seat belt, you’re good to go.
• Know what to expect when you complain. As a practical matter, airlines will apologize and maybe offer a voucher for your discomfort. Discreetly take pictures of the incursion and send them with your complaint. If the airline doesn’t respond appropriately, consider asking a third party for help with your case, such as Elliott advocacy.
• Check your airline’s policies before you book. With few exceptions, every airline has its own “passengers of size” policy. Make sure to check your preferred airline’s policies before you book your ticket.

[miami_fan]

There are other options.

https://flyersrights.org/f/flyersrig...ory=Air+Safety

FlyersRights, the largest airline passenger organization, filed a rulemaking petition with the FAA on October 5th, the 3rd anniversary of the ignored Congressional deadline for the FAA to set minimum seat standards. FlyersRights’ rulemaking petition proposes seat dimensions that accommodate 90% to 92% of the population.

This group also says that only about 1 in 4 Americans can actually fit into the current seat dimensions.

Also here are some raw data about Americans and body shape/size to keep in mind when you consider the current seat sizes.

Average Butt Size for Males and Females (Glute Size Guide)

According to US anthropometric reference data, the average butt size for women is 40.2 inches or 102.2 cm. This data is based on the buttocks measurements of 8,068 females aged 20 and over.

According to data from the CDC’s Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, the average butt size for men is 39.2 inches or 99.6 cm.

The average American butt probably should not fit in most airplane seats comfortably.

Finally, the standard seat belt length in an airplane is approximately 46 inches.

The average waist circumference of the American man is 40.5 inches. The average waist circumference of the American woman is 38.7. And growing I might add. Should the average American be able to buckle up with few issues? Yes but it is getting close.

I don't say any of that to try to guilt anyone or to be a concern troll. As I said, the smaller seat in economy class is a feature not a bug of the airline industry to force you to upgrade if you want to be comfortable. I am just saying things may not turn out the way some may hope if the idea is to punish the fat people by making them pay more. As I said, the American public is becoming more and more obese and the airline seats are getting smaller and smaller. I have taken four plane trips over the last six months or so. As of a couple months ago, I could still fit in my exit row aisle seat pretty comfortably though I did take a long look at traveling first class because the eight hour flight in economy to London is starting to become less than ideal for my 6'4 270 lb frame nowadays. And let me tell ya, fat people are flying all over the damn place. If all the fat people and people who just want extra room are buying seats on a plane two at a time, where is everyone else suppose to seat?

Which will happen first? No one will be able to fit in any airplane seat because they are too big or everyone who is on a plane will have paid for two seats because none of them could fit in one.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

This group also says that only about 1 in 4 Americans can actually fit into the current seat dimensions.

I agree with the sentiment but (respectfully to the authors), I'm calling BS on this. Just from my observations, this doesn't seem true. I can believe 3/4 but definitely not just 1/4.

The average waist circumference of the American man is 40.5 inches. The average waist circumference of the American woman is 38.7. And growing I might add. Should the average American be able to buckle up with few issues? Yes but it is getting close.

I'm under but "near". I can honestly say that there's always been plenty of seatbelt room left.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I don't say any of that to try to guilt anyone or to be a concern troll. As I said, the smaller seat in economy class is a feature not a bug of the airline industry to force you to upgrade if you want to be comfortable. I am just saying things may not turn out the way some may hope if the idea is to punish the fat people by making them pay more. As I said, the American public is becoming more and more obese and the airline seats are getting smaller and smaller. I have taken four plane trips over the last six months or so. As of a couple months ago, I could still fit in my exit row aisle seat pretty comfortably though I did take a long look at traveling first class because the eight hour flight in economy to London is starting to become less than ideal for my 6'4 270 lb frame nowadays. And let me tell ya, fat people are flying all over the damn place. If all the fat people and people who just want extra room are buying seats on a plane two at a time, where is everyone else suppose to seat?

Which will happen first? No one will be able to fit in any airplane seat because they are too big or everyone who is on a plane will have paid for two seats because none of them could fit in one.

I don't fly Jet Blue but maybe they can be the catalyst for change.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-...r-new-aircraft

JetBlue is promising "incredible onboard comfort" on its Airbus A220-300 aircraft.

The carrier took delivery late last month of the first of 70 A220s it has on order. It plans to begin using the planes on some flights during the spring before entering it into scheduled service in mid-June on its Boston-Fort Lauderdale route.

The cabin will feature 140 seats in JetBlue's first two-by-three configuration. Seats will be 18.6 inches in width, the widest in JetBlue's fleet with the exception of its business class Mint seats. The aircraft will have 22 rows of standard seats with a separation between rows, known as pitch in industry parlance, of 32 inches. That's the same pitch as JetBlue has on its reconfigured Airbus A320 planes but two inches less than the carrier offered in its original A320 interiors.

Six rows of Even More Space seating will have 35 inches of pitch.

In a Tuesday announcement, the airline said its A220 will have contoured seatbacks at knee level to create a sense of additional space.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

There are other options.

https://flyersrights.org/f/flyersrig...ory=Air+Safety



This group also says that only about 1 in 4 Americans can actually fit into the current seat dimensions.

Also here are some raw data about Americans and body shape/size to keep in mind when you consider the current seat sizes.

Average Butt Size for Males and Females (Glute Size Guide)





The average American butt probably should not fit in most airplane seats comfortably.

Finally, the standard seat belt length in an airplane is approximately 46 inches.

The average waist circumference of the American man is 40.5 inches. The average waist circumference of the American woman is 38.7. And growing I might add. Should the average American be able to buckle up with few issues? Yes but it is getting close.

I don't say any of that to try to guilt anyone or to be a concern troll. As I said, the smaller seat in economy class is a feature not a bug of the airline industry to force you to upgrade if you want to be comfortable. I am just saying things may not turn out the way some may hope if the idea is to punish the fat people by making them pay more. As I said, the American public is becoming more and more obese and the airline seats are getting smaller and smaller. I have taken four plane trips over the last six months or so. As of a couple months ago, I could still fit in my exit row aisle seat pretty comfortably though I did take a long look at traveling first class because the eight hour flight in economy to London is starting to become less than ideal for my 6'4 270 lb frame nowadays. And let me tell ya, fat people are flying all over the damn place. If all the fat people and people who just want extra room are buying seats on a plane two at a time, where is everyone else suppose to seat?

Which will happen first? No one will be able to fit in any airplane seat because they are too big or everyone who is on a plane will have paid for two seats because none of them could fit in one.

For the most part I don't think people are looking to "punish" fat people, there are of course always exceptions where there are just nasty people out there. I think it is, or should be, about not punishing "average" people by having a portion of their seat space invaded. I am 6-2, 210 and easily fit in to my seat. Why should I have to have a portion of the seat I paid for taken over by someone who is obese and have their body literally rubbing up against me for hours, or put me in a spot where I literally can't move one of my arms? How is that fair to me?

[Edward64]

Damn. Lathum and I agree on something.

How does it feel to be on the right side for once?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

For the most part I don't think people are looking to "punish" fat people, there are of course always exceptions where there are just nasty people out there. I think it is, or should be, about not punishing "average" people by having a portion of their seat space invaded. I am 6-2, 210 and easily fit in to my seat. Why should I have to have a portion of the seat I paid for taken over by someone who is obese and have their body literally rubbing up against me for hours, or put me in a spot where I literally can't move one of my arms? How is that fair to me?

You shouldn't. The problem is you are asking the passenger to pay for your discomfort that the airlines created for you by shrinking the size of the seats and not providing space for everyone to seat comfortably for the price of the ticket. The solution if enforced consistently and equally across the board ultimately means either there is a size standard for passengers similar to the carry on luggage standard to fly or once it is normalized that bigger passengers have to pay for the extra seat, there will consistently one less seat for the "average" passenger for each passenger who does not fit into the ever shrinking seat. Given the increasing size of the average American, that number is going to get larger as well.

I am sure I have sat next to passengers who have extended “more than 1 inch beyond the outermost edge of the armrest and a seat belt extension is needed”. Were these morbidly obese people? Absolutely not. One was a Division I college running back who was only about 225 but had no chance staying exclusively in his own seating space with his tree trunks he called thighs. We rubbed legs for the flight from Atlanta to Miami and went off on our merry way when we landed. If he is purchasing an extra seat, me or someone else on that flight does not make that flight.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

You shouldn't. The problem is you are asking the passenger to pay for your discomfort that the airlines created for you by shrinking the size of the seats and not providing space for everyone to seat comfortably for the price of the ticket. The solution if enforced consistently and equally across the board ultimately means either there is a size standard for passengers similar to the carry on luggage standard to fly or once it is normalized that bigger passengers have to pay for the extra seat, there will consistently one less seat for the "average" passenger for each passenger who does not fit into the ever shrinking seat. Given the increasing size of the average American, that number is going to get larger as well.

I am sure I have sat next to passengers who have extended “more than 1 inch beyond the outermost edge of the armrest and a seat belt extension is needed”. Were these morbidly obese people? Absolutely not. One was a Division I college running back who was only about 225 but had no chance staying exclusively in his own seating space with his tree trunks he called thighs. We rubbed legs for the flight from Atlanta to Miami and went off on our merry way when we landed. If he is purchasing an extra seat, me or someone else on that flight does not make that flight.

To start I totally agree that the airlines are largely at fault.

I think your point is a bit flawed however. You assume that everyone who would be required to buy an extra seat would do it and still fly. I think a large number of people, or at least a not so insignificant number of people, would either not take the trip or chose another method of travel. Plane tickets are expensive and having to buy 2 would be a deal breaker for a lot of people, not to mention birds of a feather and all that it could potentially be 4-6-8 seats etc...

I also think there may be some people who lose the weight to fly. If they travel frequently of have a trip planned a year from now maybe they say, hey, I'm not buying 2 seats, I'll work to drop the weight. I don't know.

I also wonder if a middle ground would be give people the ability to purchase a row. So an overweight couple, siblings, etc...could buy the row in essence buying 1/2 a seat per person.

I think we all get flying is uncomfortable to an extent, especially in a middle seat, but when you have a very large person literally taking up 1/3 of your already small space I think you have a legitimate gripe.

[sterlingice]

I'm really glad that right now I'm usually flying 3 across with a 7yo between me and my wife.

SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

To start I totally agree that the airlines are largely at fault.

I think your point is a bit flawed however. You assume that everyone who would be required to buy an extra seat would do it and still fly. I think a large number of people, or at least a not so insignificant number of people, would either not take the trip or chose another method of travel. Plane tickets are expensive and having to buy 2 would be a deal breaker for a lot of people, not to mention birds of a feather and all that it could potentially be 4-6-8 seats etc...

I also think there may be some people who lose the weight to fly. If they travel frequently of have a trip planned a year from now maybe they say, hey, I'm not buying 2 seats, I'll work to drop the weight. I don't know.

I also wonder if a middle ground would be give people the ability to purchase a row. So an overweight couple, siblings, etc...could buy the row in essence buying 1/2 a seat per person.

I think we all get flying is uncomfortable to an extent, especially in a middle seat, but when you have a very large person literally taking up 1/3 of your already small space I think you have a legitimate gripe.

Not necessarily. My first assumption is that standard of "passengers who have extended more than 1 inch beyond the outermost edge of the armrest and a seat belt extension is needed” will only be enforced if there is a complaint from the passenger next to them. If the passenger is sitting next to a adolescent, there will probably be no complaint . If it is only an hour flight like the one I described and it is only an inch and a half of encroachment, again no big deal from the passenger. Finally, given our increasing size, two passengers sitting next to one another are probably not going to complain about each other. All that still does not include the people who will be quietly pissed on the inside but will be non confrontational about it. the vast majority of people who should be required to purchase an extra seat will not have to.

If the standard is enforced regardless of the complaints of other passengers, then yes some people are not going to fly. Are there people who are currently not flying because they don't want to get stuck next to an obese person ready to take that seat? I don't think that is the case. Are airlines just going to stop having obese travelers on their flights especially if the average passenger is surging closer and closer to obese status because every now and then a passenger complains about an obese passenger? I don't think so. As far as purchasing the extra seat, I don't think it will be a thing a family of four going to Disney World might do. But if I had to fly from say Tampa to LaGuardia (I have to make that trip early next year so it was a quick look up ) and my options were $132 for one economy ticket $264 for two economy tickets or $478 for premium economy, $858 for business and first class, I might look at two economy tickets even though I don't need to just to get the extra room. I suspect that airlines would have no problem providing those extra seats at a discount to keep frequent fliers of the obese kind. That last suggestion was what I was suggesting earlier. I don't know what kind of hate the waif passenger with disposable income would get when the packed plane takes off and he/she has purchased the whole row for him or her self.

I am not saying that someone does not have a gripe if their seat is impacted by someone of a larger size next to them. I am just saying that the ire should be directed at the airlines not the larger passenger.

[Edward64]

This is interesting. Need more info though.

Frontier is set to offer 'all-you-can-fly' passes that offer unlimited trips for a year | Daily Mail Online

Frontier is set to offer 'all-you-can-fly' passes that offer unlimited trips for a year - but you can only book travel one day before departure

Frontier Airlines is set to debut a new 'all-you-can-fly' pass next year

The GoWild Pass will let people travel to any of its destinations 300 days out of the year

Flight confirmations, though, will only be available 'the day before you take off'

The idea is to help the budget airline fill most of its unfilled seats

It remains unclear how much the passes would cost

Frontier routes https://www.flyfrontier.com/travel/m...p/?mobile=true

[GrantDawg]

I need help! My son is looking to book his flight to Japan. Who has the best rates internationally? For his program reimbursement, he has to fly from Atlanta to Osaka. We are just trying to find the best rate for him that doesn't require a overnight layover somewhere. He is only getting $1,300 round trip, so we know we are probably going to have to come out of pocket some. I'm just trying to keep it reasonable without him spending 12-15 hours in an airport somewhere.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I need help! My son is looking to book his flight to Japan. Who has the best rates internationally? For his program reimbursement, he has to fly from Atlanta to Osaka. We are just trying to find the best rate for him that doesn't require a overnight layover somewhere. He is only getting $1,300 round trip, so we know we are probably going to have to come out of pocket some. I'm just trying to keep it reasonable without him spending 12-15 hours in an airport somewhere.

Need dates.

I'll check google flights for you.

[Ksyrup]

Try google flights for a good overview of quite a bunch of options. When is he leaving, what duration?

[GrantDawg]

January 8th, to April 24th. Or basically he needs to be there by the 10th, so January 7-8th. We have been looking at Google flights. Is that the best deals?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

January 8th, to April 24th. Or basically he needs to be there by the 10th, so January 7-8th. We have been looking at Google flights. Is that the best deals?

I've generally found Google flights to be my starting point for deals. I know there are others out there and Google flights may not be the best for smaller, regional carriers (e.g. Air Asia flying between Asian countries) but yeah, it's pretty good for US originating flights.

Let me look now.

[Edward64]

I see a $1,455 flight for Jan 8-Apr 24 but it is a hellacious 54hour trip with 3 airlines United, Swiss, ANA Nippon.

Next cheapest is $1,613 for Jan 8-Apr 24 for 34 hours with JetBlue & Cathay Pacific.

I also checked one way from Atlanta-to-Osaka and one way back. Not any cheaper. Also looked at Tokyo and other cities (e.g. he can take a train to Osaka) and not much better.

Not sure if below link will work ...

Google Travel

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, it looks like if you're trying for a 1 stop trip with a reasonable layover of < 3 hours, it's going to run you about $3K.

Two stops puts you into the 33+ hour trip range nearly double the 1 stop trips.

[Edward64]

Another option is to fly out from another airport. I checked San Francisco and there are cheaper flights $1,200 to Osaka. But then you have to buy the ticket from Atlanta to SFO.

Last option I can think of is to fly to a cheaper Asian country and then buy regional flight (e.g. Air Asia is pretty cheap) to Osaka. I checked just now and didn't see any better deals (vs. the additional headache).

Flights & fares change all the time. To save you stress, maybe just buy the $1,613 for the kid. Or, check everyday for the next 5-10 days and see if there are any better deals (and there are no guarantees as it gets closer to the date).

2 FWIW notes:

1) Personally, I think the additional $300+ is probably worth it to keep your sanity. It's once in a lifetime for the kid, so worth his sanity also
2) Never flown to Japan, but $1,613 is not outrageous to Asia. You can definitely get better deals but you aren't being screwed (too much).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, it looks like if you're trying for a 1 stop trip with a reasonable layover of < 3 hours, it's going to run you about $3K.

Two stops puts you into the 33+ hour trip range nearly double the 1 stop trips.

The only time I paid $3K was with company paying it!

The $1,613 has a 9 hour layover. I've done those before. He's young (and full of excitement), won't kill the kid. Buy him a travel pillow, he'll be okay

BTW - just checked and the $1,613 flight is now $1,508. Changes all the time!

[sterlingice]

If you have points with an airline, a flight to Asia isn't the worst way to spend them. I'm guessing he doesn't, though

SI

[GrantDawg]

He has one that gets him there a day early for $1,782 through Air Canada with limited delays. He is checking if that will be an issue. Atl-Toronto-Tokyo-Osaka.

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[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If you have points with an airline, a flight to Asia isn't the worst way to spend them. I'm guessing he doesn't, though

SI

We're saving up points for an international trip in 2024. We've already got about 200K Chase Rewards points, which can be transferred to a bunch of different airline partners. Likely going to the UK, as this will be the first real off-this-continent trip we're planning to take so I figure we should start basic. I've been studying up on the best ways to make the most of those points and limit the cash outlay. Virgin Atlantic is pretty good points-wise, but the fuel and other charges they pass on are insane.

I haven't looked specifically at Asia, but I get a bunch of alerts of deals all over the place and recently, it's been Europe. Just checked my trash bin, and none have been to Asia.

[cartman]

My parents are taking their delayed 50th anniversary trip to Europe next year. Will get there end of August and come back early November. I'm meeting them for 2 and half weeks in Lyon, where we've got tickets to the five Rugby World Cup group stage matches that will be played there.

My dad is starting to search for their flights, but a lot of them don't have award seats opened up that far ahead. I've found that Lufthansa now has a non-stop from Austin to Frankfurt, so that will make it easy for me to get over there.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We're saving up points for an international trip in 2024. We've already got about 200K Chase Rewards points, which can be transferred to a bunch of different airline partners. Likely going to the UK, as this will be the first real off-this-continent trip we're planning to take so I figure we should start basic. I've been studying up on the best ways to make the most of those points and limit the cash outlay. Virgin Atlantic is pretty good points-wise, but the fuel and other charges they pass on are insane.

I haven't looked specifically at Asia, but I get a bunch of alerts of deals all over the place and recently, it's been Europe. Just checked my trash bin, and none have been to Asia.

ROFL - I was starting to play the same games, likely for 2024 but possibly for 2023. I have a pretty sizable stash of United points but, yeah, also a hefty pile of Chase points, too. Those are mostly being saved up for probably 2024 and Japan - but we'll see if that comes to pass.

However, I'm going to have Gold status with United for next year, so I was thinking about maybe something over the other pond next year. Our kid will be 7, going on 8, and I was kicking around UK. He's good for natural wonders and hikes (can do like 6 miles without much issue, not lots of bathroom breaks) but less good with museums (gets bored) and I'd want to do a lot of that in England. Italy was another possibility - we've already been but he hasn't and we have family there. I think there's more stuff he'd appreciate there - yes, there are museums, but a lot of them are art-centric and he can appreciate things like Pompeii or the Colosseum.

Also, just an idea: Should we just alternate which years we're planning vacations. You get next year and I'll copy you, then I'll get 2024 and you can copy me

SI

[Ksyrup]

2023 is already booked up. We're taking my in-laws on a Caribbean cruise in February, taking the kids on a Canada road trip in June/July, and then the wife and I are going on an Alaska cruise in September. But I'm already looking ahead to 2024... This has become one of my favorite hobbies since becoming an empty-nester.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He has one that gets him there a day early for $1,782 through Air Canada with limited delays. He is checking if that will be an issue. Atl-Toronto-Tokyo-Osaka.

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And ... success?

[GrantDawg]

Haven't heard back from the program yet.

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[Edward64]

This is one ugly plane. Not for passengers though.

https://simpleflying.com/boeing-drea...bus-beluga-xl/

The two aircraft have several similarities. Both were designed to meet the needs of specific transportation and to take advantage of existing airframe designs. They have both served their purpose of speeding up the production of other aircraft compared to ground or maritime transportation.