Middle East - what's next - Page 6

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13853565/

In addition to the fighting in Lebanon, Israel pressed ahead with its offensive in the Gaza Strip against Hamas, striking the Palestinian economy ministry offices early Saturday.

In another maritime strike, Israel said that a Hezbollah rocket barrage missed its target and struck a civilian merchant ship. They did not know the nationality of the ship, or whether there were casualties.

hxxp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_attacked_ship_8

Quote:

JERUSALEM - Elite Iranian troops helped Hezbollah fire a sophisticated radar-guided missile at an Israeli warship, Israeli officials said Saturday, describing an apparent surprise blow by militants who had been using only low-tech weapons.
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Iran denied that it had any troops in Lebanon.

Israel initially believed that an aerial drone armed with explosives hit the warship...

Oh, Israel lied about their ship getting hit? Now they say Iran is involved? Sorry guys, you don't have much credibility right now.

Noop · 07-15-2006, 05:12 PM

I dont support Israel.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

I dont support Israel.

Why do you support Hezbollah?

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

I dont support Israel.

Our ship got hit!

Our ship did NOT get hit! It missed us and hit a civilian ship!

Our ship DID get hit...by an Iranian missile!

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Our ship got hit!

Our ship did NOT get hit! It missed us and hit a civilian ship!

Our ship DID get hit...by an Iranian missile!

Israel is not one guy.

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Israel is not one guy.

They are one country, however.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Our ship got hit! Our ship did NOT get hit! It missed us and hit a civilian ship! Our ship DID get hit...by an Iranian missile!

Gee, ya think maybe there might be some conflicting initial reports from an area where missiles are flying around? Live fire does have the annoying tendency to create some confusion.

And, FTR, a civilian ship was hit ... unless of course you believe the Egyptians are lying in order to make Hezzbullshit look bad or something.
An Egyptian merchant ship carrying concrete to Syria was also hit by a Hezbollah rocket at about the same time, injuring a crew member, Egyptian officials said.

cartman · 07-15-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

An Egyptian merchant ship carrying concrete to Syria was also hit by a Hezbollah rocket at about the same time, injuring a crew member, Egyptian officials said.

Wow, Syria has a coast that contains ports? I guess they do consider Lebanon a province.

Noop · 07-15-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Why do you support Hezbollah?

Really I said that in my post? I must have missed that... I don't support Israel that does not mean I favor any terrorist group you right-wing fuck nut.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Gee, ya think maybe there might be some conflicting initial reports from an area where missiles are flying around? Live fire does have the annoying tendency to create some confusion.

And, FTR, a civilian ship was hit ... unless of course you believe the Egyptians are lying in order to make Hezzbullshit look bad or something.
An Egyptian merchant ship carrying concrete to Syria was also hit by a Hezbollah rocket at about the same time, injuring a crew member, Egyptian officials said.

Logic is no match for a good conspiracy.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Really I said that in my post? I must have missed that... I don't support Israel that does not mean I favor any terrorist group you right-wing fuck nut.

So you don't support Israel and you don't support Hezbollah? Why didn't you say that then?

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Logic is no match for a good conspiracy.

Obviously.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

So you don't support Israel and you don't support Hezbollah? Why didn't you say that then?

Hell, I never even knew he was Swiss.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hell, I never even knew he was Swiss.

Noop · 07-15-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

So you don't support Israel and you don't support Hezbollah? Why didn't you say that then?

Why don't you admit you want all the in the region people dead?

Noop · 07-15-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hell, I never even knew he was Swiss.

Another right wing nut who misses the days when I would have to refer to you as master or sir.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Why don't you admit you want all the in the region people dead?

I think you are confusing me with somebody else. Go find them and argue with them, I'll support your effort. In the meantime, you are mistaken.

cartman · 07-15-2006, 06:05 PM

edit: forget what I said earlier. Syria does have ports on the Mediterranean north of Lebanon. My mental map of a landlocked Syria was mistaken.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

edit: forget what I said earlier. Syria does have ports on the Mediterranean north of Lebanon. My mental map was mistaken.

First you say they have ports, now you say they don't. What gives????

Noop · 07-15-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

I think you are confusing me with somebody else. Go find them and argue with them, I'll support your effort. In the meantime, you are mistaken.

So you don't want those people dead? Why didn't you say that then?

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

So you don't want those people dead? Why didn't you say that then?

I don't want those people dead or I don't want Israel to defend themselves against terrorism? There's a big difference and I made my stance quite clear.

I don't want them all dead. I don't want any deaths, but I support Israel in their right to defend themselves against the terror organization Hezobollah. Do you?

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

... I would have to refer to you as master or sir.

You probably ought to do that anyway, it's never inappropriate to show respect for your intellectual superiors.

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

I don't want them all dead. I don't want any deaths, but I support Israel in their right to defend themselves against the terror organization Hezobollah. Do you?

Is Israel defending themselves by attacking airports and highways? Is that going to Hezbollah?

Are they defending themselves by trying to drag the US into this by claiming Iran is aiding Hezbollah? Odd they would know it's an Iranian missile so quickly, considering they couldn't even figure out if their ship was hit or not.

Edward64 · 07-15-2006, 06:12 PM

Noop. It would be interesting to read further details on your stance ex. not supporting Israel. To be fair, I think I understand Dutch's pov as he has participated throughout this thread. But I don't really understand your position, can you elaborate why you believe the way you do?

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

I don't want any deaths, but I support Israel in their right to defend themselves against the terror organization Hezobollah.

At the risk of fostering further confusion (and with Noop around there's plenty of that already) I'm not at all sure those two statements aren't pretty well mutually exclusive. An effective exercise of the latter pretty much ensures some of the former.

At any rate, he's probably just confused you with me

Noop · 07-15-2006, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You probably ought to do that anyway, it's never inappropriate to show respect for your intellectual superiors.

Doubt that. You pigment doesn't make you smarter then me. Its just makes your life a bit easier... To bad you missed the good ole days because you are truely a good ole boy.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Is Israel defending themselves by attacking airports and highways?

Denying an enemy the use of facilities seems like a pretty logical tactic.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Doubt that.

Thanks for proving my point.

Now please feel free to continue your pity party, but how about doing the rest of the planet a favor & do it privately instead of publically? There's no shortage of idiocy in the world as it is, no sense in you adding to it.

Noop · 07-15-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

I don't want them all dead. I don't want any deaths, but I support Israel in their right to defend themselves against the terror organization Hezobollah. Do you?

I don't agree with anything either side is doing in this conflict especially Israel. I chose not to debate why I feel this way I made a comment because some of what I feel has been stated and was not worth repeating. Also everyone has a right to defend themselves but the history behind it is what bothers me the most. I hate governments or groups who kill innocent people for no damn good reason and just consider their death collateral damage. It bothers me that of all the things we can be good at as a species the only good thing we're good at is killing each other.

P.S. I know I sound left wing as hell but on this issue I lean to the left.

Galaxy · 07-15-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Is Israel defending themselves by attacking airports and highways? Is that going to Hezbollah?

Are they defending themselves by trying to drag the US into this by claiming Iran is aiding Hezbollah? Odd they would know it's an Iranian missile so quickly, considering they couldn't even figure out if their ship was hit or not.

Yeap...They are taking out the ability for weapons and support for the Hezbollah. Should they allow for Hezbollah to maintain a supply line to keep firing weapons and rockets at Israel?

The US already knows Hezbollah is supported by Iran. You don't think that Israel has intellegenct, like the US (or even through us and the allies)?

Noop, why the hostile "right-wing nuts" and other attacks? You made a pretty broad statement, and Dutch was just following up with a question, and then you blasted him again when he was responding to the debate with his view in a civil manner.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

At the risk of fostering further confusion (and with Noop around there's plenty of that already) I'm not at all sure those two statements aren't pretty well mutually exclusive. An effective exercise of the latter pretty much ensures some of the former.

At any rate, he's probably just confused you with me

II think Noop was suggesting that I just wanted them all to die. Which is, of course, rediculous.

But if people die as a result of Israel excercising it's right to protect it's people, I won't blame Israel for that.

Noop · 07-15-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Thanks for proving my point.

Now please feel free to continue your pity party, but how about doing the rest of the planet a favor & do it privately instead of publically? There's no shortage of idiocy in the world as it is, no sense in you adding to it.

Jon my dick is bigger then yours. Nana Nana

duckman · 07-15-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Is Israel defending themselves by attacking airports and highways?

Those are military targets under the Geneva Convention. Anything that can be used as a base or bring supplies to the enemy. It's smart strategy when conducting a military operation.

Dutch · 07-15-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

P.S. I know I sound left wing as hell but on this issue I lean to the left.

It won't be the first time somebody sounds left-wing or right-wing around here.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-15-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Should they allow for Hezbollah to maintain a supply line to keep firing weapons and rockets at Israel?

Apaprently they should, no sense discomfitting the poor terrorists.
Oops, sorry, I mean "noble freedom fighters"

Solecismic · 07-15-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkb

Solecismic,

I admit to be fairly ignorant about the history of Israel and their conflicts. I've been reading a bit lately, mostly news articles, and trying to understand what's happened in the past. I was surprised to find that Israel has a history of exchanging prisoners...I had assumed that Israel would never do anything like that.

Do you think that Israel's past of trading prisoners is working against them? If they had never exchanged prisoners would their enemies continue to try and kidnap soldiers and citizens?

I understand that even if the Arab terrorist groups weren't kidnapping Israelis, they'd still be trying to kill them, but it seems the current mess was ignited by the kidnappings of soldiers, both by Haman and Hezbollah, and that strategy has worked in the past.

The current mess was also ignited by the daily firing of rockets at civilians in southern Israeli towns.

You're right that they have made exchanges in the past, though the negotiations took years and I don't think soldiers were captured before.

Remember that Hezbollah tunnelled under the border and ambushed an Israeli military patrol, killing four and kidnapping two. This in a zone that hadn't seen combat in years. So it was a significant escalation.

Galaxy · 07-15-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Jon my dick is bigger then yours. Nana Nana

Noop, don't make us bring out the old girlfriend pictures.

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

The US already knows Hezbollah is supported by Iran. You don't think that Israel has intellegenct, like the US (or even through us and the allies)?

Yes, we all know how sound our intelligence has been.

Noop · 07-15-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Noop, don't make us bring out the old girlfriend pictures.

Touche'

Galaxy · 07-15-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckman

Those are military targets under the Geneva Convention. Anything that can be used as a base or bring supplies to the enemy. It's smart strategy when conducting a military operation.

Yeap. War 101. That's what I do in Civilization 4.

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckman

Those are military targets under the Geneva Convention. Anything that can be used as a base or bring supplies to the enemy. It's smart strategy when conducting a military operation.

I now see why these people are so upset at Israel over there.

If one of my loved ones was killed by a country who consistently oversteps its bounds (despite resolutions from the UN), I would not be happy.

miked · 07-15-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Yes, we all know how sound our intelligence has been.

I'm with you; Iran and Syria are innocent bystanders and never ever have stated their desire to wipe Israel out. This is just a zionist conspiracy designed to force the US to fight an Israeli war on the false basis of defeating terrorism. If we just ignore everything and pull out of the whole region and keep to ourselves, there will be world peace. Yay!

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Yeap. War 101. That's what I do in Civilization 4.

This isn't a videogame, and Israel just went to war over some soldiers getting captured.

I say them them sort it out themselves. Even if Iran enters the fray. Unfortunately, Israel has way to much influence with this country and that won't happen.

Edward64 · 07-15-2006, 06:31 PM

It was interesting listening to Lebanese PM Siniora. I don't think I heard (or read) that he conceded even any fault to this latest crises. I don't know how to proportionately dole out responsibility, but I would have hoped that the Lebanese leadership would have acknowledged that there were rogue elements from Lebanon that started this and that they would take strong action against them... in addition to condeming the disporporationate use of force by Israel.

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

I'm with you; Iran and Syria are innocent bystanders and never ever have stated their desire to wipe Israel out. This is just a zionist conspiracy designed to force the US to fight an Israeli war on the false basis of defeating terrorism. If we just ignore everything and pull out of the whole region and keep to ourselves, there will be world peace. Yay!

If an explosion happens in Iran, is it automatically the US's fault because we've placed them in the "Axis of Evil"?

Who cares if Syria and Iran want to wipe Israel out? Israel has a strong army.

Galaxy · 07-15-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

I'm with you; Iran and Syria are innocent bystanders and never ever have stated their desire to wipe Israel out. This is just a zionist conspiracy designed to force the US to fight an Israeli war on the false basis of defeating terrorism. If we just ignore everything and pull out of the whole region and keep to ourselves, there will be world peace. Yay!

Wow....

Galaxy · 07-15-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

This isn't a videogame, and Israel just went to war over some soldiers getting captured.

I say them them sort it out themselves. Even if Iran enters the fray. Unfortunately, Israel has way to much influence with this country and that won't happen.

Read up on War stragety and the history of Israel-Middle East. Actually, I always though the influence was backwards than what you put.

Galaxy · 07-15-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

If an explosion happens in Iran, is it automatically the US's fault because we've placed them in the "Axis of Evil"?

Who cares if Syria and Iran want to wipe Israel out? Israel has a strong army.

So you want another Holocaust, nice.

ISiddiqui · 07-15-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckman

Those are military targets under the Geneva Convention. Anything that can be used as a base or bring supplies to the enemy. It's smart strategy when conducting a military operation.

So the US can bomb Kuwaiti ports as they can be used to bring supplies to terrorists in Iraq? Before you say Kuwait isn't a part of the enemy, explain how Northern Lebanon is a part of Hezbollah.

rexallllsc · 07-15-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Read up on War stragety and the history of Israel-Middle East. Actually, I always though the influence was backwards than what you put.

That's the whole point. Israel went to war over 2 captured soldiers.

As far as influence, puhleaze.

07-15-2006, 05:12 PM	#252
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	I dont support Israel. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

07-15-2006, 06:05 PM	#268
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	edit: forget what I said earlier. Syria does have ports on the Mediterranean north of Lebanon. My mental map of a landlocked Syria was mistaken. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 07-15-2006 at 06:06 PM.

07-15-2006, 06:12 PM	#274
Edward64 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2005	Noop. It would be interesting to read further details on your stance ex. not supporting Israel. To be fair, I think I understand Dutch's pov as he has participated throughout this thread. But I don't really understand your position, can you elaborate why you believe the way you do?

07-15-2006, 06:31 PM	#294
Edward64 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2005	It was interesting listening to Lebanese PM Siniora. I don't think I heard (or read) that he conceded even any fault to this latest crises. I don't know how to proportionately dole out responsibility, but I would have hoped that the Lebanese leadership would have acknowledged that there were rogue elements from Lebanon that started this and that they would take strong action against them... in addition to condeming the disporporationate use of force by Israel.

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