The Official NBA 2019-20 Season Thread

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You are right. They are a waste of time. Thanks for pointing that out.

If you're enough of a narcissist, everyone else in the world is a waste of time.

Unless it's bottom need on Maslow's list, sports, jobs, travel, so many other things are all superfluous to our existence.

[JPhillips]

What will the sports protests accomplish? Probably very little. But that's not the fault of the players. We live in a country where when a school was filled with the bodies of dead children the response was to make it easier to buy guns and ammo.

Right now overwhelming majorities favor a number of police reforms, but few of them will happen in any police departments. No speeches, no votes, no protests will change that. The GOP is already talking about ways to give more money and weapons to the police without any training or policy changes required.

Don't blame the players for throwing up their hands and saying fuck this. What else can they do? All they have is a platform to speak and they've decided to use it. We'll do all of this again in six months, or two months , or next week, but that won't be because the players failed. We live in a country where those in power don't care and aren't willing to listen to the majority.

History says that eventually that will end badly.

[GrantDawg]

The players and owners are holding meetings today on how to go forward. n the meeting last night, the Lakers and the Clippers players voted their preference is to end the season.

[Ksyrup]

I find the whole thing odd. One, I thought one of the driving factors to finish out this year to begin with was the George Floyd situation, that playing and being visible would give them more of a voice than if they sat home. Now they are doing a 180 in response to the next George Floyd situation.

But more than that, I just don't get what not playing accomplishes. Do the players really think that not playing is going to get 30 ownership groups motivated to force changes at a national level? Because that's the only tie to the NBA that I can see here. Otherwise, you're just hurting your employer for something they have no responsibility for.

Do they think that "no NBA" is going to create a national movement to make changes? There's no way. Heck, the NBA was already about 2 weeks away from being relegated to second page news by football's return anyway, so the timing/impact of doing this is muted, IMO.

I have no problem with them speaking out/protesting, etc., but I just don't get how this is going to be effective at all. And I'm not sure how the league/team owners are supposed to fix the country's problems in 48 hours to save another month of bubble basketball.

[wustin]

Yeah I'm just gonna drop this link here and I hope everyone has the chance to read the article no matter which side you fall under.

The reality of Black pain is breaking American sports' status quo

The most important part is when he talks about the passive aggressive responses to the players' strikes (it's not a boycott people).

[wustin]

dola

actually I'll just quote it

Originally Posted by Howard Bryant

Underneath it all -- the passive-aggressive questions about what walking out will prove, how people will never, ever watch the NBA again -- is threat, questions less in search of illumination but designed to diminish the players, to question their authenticity and disavow them of any thought of self-determination. There is no citizenship beneath their tank tops, and even less humanity. You're here to entertain us. No, you're literally here to entertain us. That's your job.

The NBA has used their platform to protest throughout the bubble in Orlando. Underneath that layer of threat is more threat, which is to say you better be grateful there are people willing to watch, because if we don't watch, you're back to being nothing. The message is, of course, to remind these Black players of how precarious their positions are, to let them know in case they forgot how thin the margin is, that one misstep, injury or arrest, backtalk or protest can put you back there with the rest. Never forget who you owe.

Yet everyone in America knows what the players are feeling right now, because they have felt it themselves, when the pain that lives down deep rises up and paralyzes them -- body, heart, mind -- and playing a game really doesn't matter. Nothing feels like it matters. We remember that from Sept. 11. We remember that from the Boston Marathon bombing. We remember that when family and the closest people to us die. We remember that when the constant racism breaks our hearts, and then our backs. Going to work doesn't matter. It simply isn't that important. There is no doubt many people have felt it during the more hopeless moments of the coronavirus pandemic, where it is difficult to see a future around the corner.

[bob]

I also agree it seems odd to be giving up their platform. No one really cares about 99% of these guys off the court. And by playing they can get paid and use that money towards charities or lobbying or whatever if they so choose (yes, I know they already have most of their money since the regular season is over but there is still playoff money).

If they feel "weird" or whatever the proper term would be for playing a game while others are protesting for change, that's a different story and I get that.

And while I know the goal from a high level, what concrete steps do they want? Isn't most police policy set at the local level? These major cities are all democratic run areas, so re-electing those guys in November isn't going to do much.

[bob]

Originally Posted by wustin

(it's not a boycott people).

Ignoring everything else in this story, its weird to me that the media keeps using the term boycott. Shouldn't they know the difference?

[Ksyrup]

I'm still stuck on the practical effect of the strike, and particularly, forcing the cancellation of the rest of the season. If there was a purpose for it, I would get it. I think if this is the crux of the issue, they are not exactly setting themselves up for sympathy:

Yet everyone in America knows what the players are feeling right now, because they have felt it themselves, when the pain that lives down deep rises up and paralyzes them -- body, heart, mind -- and playing a game really doesn't matter. Nothing feels like it matters. We remember that from Sept. 11. We remember that from the Boston Marathon bombing. We remember that when family and the closest people to us die. We remember that when the constant racism breaks our hearts, and then our backs. Going to work doesn't matter. It simply isn't that important. There is no doubt many people have felt it during the more hopeless moments of the coronavirus pandemic, where it is difficult to see a future around the corner.

I'm sure there are plenty of Americans - black or otherwise - who feel the same way and who simply don't get to decide to walk off the job. There has to be more to it than that.

[Butter]

So is your problem that they are privileged enough to get to walk off the job?

[Ksyrup]

I don't have a problem with what they want to do, other than questioning the effectiveness of it. If you're going to do something like this, there ought to be some sort of tangible benefit from it that furthers your cause. They decided a few months ago that playing would further their cause, and now they are doing a 180.

But yeah, at a higher level, I don't think it's a great PR move to simply say, "I can leave my job/employer because what happened bothers me and I can't concentrate." That's Bryant's argument. I'm saying there has to be more to it than that or else it really looks bad.

On one hand, entertainment is a luxury in our society; on the other hand, they are responsible for so much money in the entertainment system that they have power. But I'm not sure what pulling this power play does to advance their cause.

And I wouldn't call it privilege, since that word is being used way too often these days to mean much of anything anymore.

[sterlingice]

Let's see if the season is actually cancelled, though. The "season cancel" threat has the NBA board of governors meeting and that may ultimately be the end goal. I think the players driving this are savvy enough to know that if they end the season, they lose their platform.

SI

[Comey]

It shouldn't be called a strike. A strike is against an employer. The employer--the teams and the NBA--support what is going on.

It shouldn't be called a boycott.

It should be called what it is: a protest. It is protesting what it has been protesting all along...police brutality.

I listened to Woj this morning; it was discussed that many players had misgivings for going to the bubble in the first place, but went for a variety of reasons. Many feel helpless in the bubble, removed from their communiities and helpless to do anything constructive. That's why some players have considered leaving, so that they can be more active in their community. The league supports that, though they have to figure out what all of the ramifications are.

Those who don't care to find out (not anyone here; if you're posting in this thread, you have an interest and investment in it, jbergey22 notwithstanding) are just labeling them whatever they want. It's maddening to see, and the Kaepernick situation all over again. If I'm a player, I'm angry and somewhat broken by the response...but also know it was coming.

They aren't answering to the public; they made that clear when they told the guy in Washington to shove his opinion up his own ass. They are attempting to do what they feel is right for their community. Whatever that is...well, I'm not sure anyone, they included, have answers yet. I do think, and this is pure speculation on my part, that the games may feel meaningless to them, when there is something bigger than all of us going on.

Again, that's just my opinion. I'm basing it off what I hear and read coming out of the bubble.

[JPhillips]

The husband of a colleague, Sam Anderson, is a writer for the NYTimes and was in the bubble until last week. I bet he wishes he were still there now.

[ISiddiqui]

As I said in the MLB thread, there seems to be a pain in the hearts of black basketball players to where they feel it's not right to play with what is going on. You can see it in Chris Weber's comments last night or Kenny Smith walking off Inside the NBA. I don't know if they know the end game, but there is a definite I don't feel right about this sort of feeling.

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[molson]

So so far in this NBA season we've had (saw this compiled on reddit):

-China controversy
-COVID
-The Bubble
-Strike/Protest
-Kobe
-David Stern
-Anti-Semitism
-Jamal Murray sex tape.
-Strip Club Kawhi
-NBA Summer League Earthquake

What's next?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by molson

What's next?

[molson]

Haha. A Russo booking swerve would be a fitting end to the season. Maybe an a eliminated team will show up at the finals and the Commissioner will declare a triple threat championship-on-a-ladder game for the title.

[albionmoonlight]

For those wondering what the point of player protesting by not playing a game is . . . it is worth noting that Kap started his protest 4 years ago.

And without that protest, there is no way (IMO) that the players protest today by not playing a playoff game.

Who knows where this goes 4 years from now? And 4 years after that? And 4 years after that?

White supremacy enforced by the police arm of the state is baked into America's DNA. It is our original sin. Tearing it down is going to take more than a few years.

[GrantDawg]

In 61 I walked out if an exhibition game much like the @nba players did yesterday. I am one of the few people that knows what it felt like to make such an important decision. I am so proud of these young guys. It reminded me of this Pls RT ⁦@MSNBC⁩ ⁦⁦@CNN⁩ ⁦⁦ pic.twitter.com/70VAIFxhtf

— TheBillRussell (@RealBillRussell) August 27, 2020

[sterlingice]

I don't get what the end game of the protests was? Why didn't they turn it into tangible reforms going forward like trying to get out the vote in large numbers or using their platform for a more lasting message. Oh, wait

NBA playoffs will resume Saturday; players agree to form social justice coalition with coaches and own - CBSSports.com

All parties agreed to resume NBA playoff games on Saturday, Aug. 29 with the understanding that the league together with the players will work to enact the following commitments:

1. The NBA and its players have agreed to immediately establish a social justice coalition, with representatives from players, coaches and governors, that will be focused on a broad range of issues, including increasing access to voting, promoting civic engagement, and advocating for meaningful police and criminal justice reform.

2. In every city where the league franchise owns and controls the arena property, team governors will continue to work with local elections officials to convert the facility into a voting location for the 2020 general election to allow for a safe in-person voting option for communities vulnerable to COVID. If a deadline has passed, team governors will work with local elections officials to find another election-related use for the facility, including but not limited to voter registration and ballot receiving boards.

3. The league will work with the players and our network partners to create and include advertising spots in each NBA playoff game dedicated to promoting greater civic engagement in national and local elections and raising awareness around voter access and opportunity.

SI

[spleen1015]

I think part of the issue amongst the players when Milwaukee decided to sit out, they didn't have an end game in mind. Seems to like they're trying to piece meal something together.

[Ksyrup]

I just find the whole "walking off the job" thing as a protest not against your employer but for a cause bizarre. Like, I get that's the players' power, but it doesn't really mean anything other than no games. And it's spreading, so apparently ESPN workers walked off the job. It's just bizarre to me.


For all those who don't understand why healthcare is tied to your job, this is the equivalent to me.

[ISiddiqui]

A general strike isn't uncommon around the world. It just isn't in the US because we tend to be very anti union compared to other Western European countries (and have less a history of mass protests as even many countries in Latin America or Asia). That's what this feels like - a general strike.

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[Ksyrup]

A strike suggests a grievance against your employer, though.

Here's the thing - as far as I see, while several leagues temporarily stopped playing to support the protest, the only one that has resulted in any tangible outcome is the NBA's, and they are the one league that has been vocal in its support of its players. So if they didn't refuse to play but went to the league and asked to partner on some of these initiatives, I believe they would have happened anyway. MLB, NHL, etc., shutting down for a couple of days was just window dressing.

[JPhillips]

These things are going to become more common if the majority isn't able to hold power at any point. One aspect of the Wisconsin protests is that the GOP has so efficiently locked down the legislature and neutered the Governor's office that there really isn't a democratic pathway for change. In 2018 the Dems won 53% of the state House vote and didn't get even 40% of the seats. Even more outrageous, there was a net change of about +13 towards the Dems from 2016 to 2018 and they only picked up one seat.

This is why I'm really worried about the election. A minority can't hold power over a majority forever. Eventually the majority abandons the system and then the minority has to decide whether they agree to reform or whether they choose to hold on to power through violence. I don't know what happens if Trump loses by 4 or 5 million votes but still wins, but it won't be good.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

A strike suggests a grievance against your employer, though.

Not a General Strike.

General strike - Wikipedia

[Ksyrup]

OK, so this was a specific general strike?

[Comey]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I don't get what the end game of the protests was? Why didn't they turn it into tangible reforms going forward like trying to get out the vote in large numbers or using their platform for a more lasting message. Oh, wait

NBA playoffs will resume Saturday; players agree to form social justice coalition with coaches and own - CBSSports.com



SI

The advertising alone makes it a win. And if they are able to convert more arenas to polling places where they are need (coughRuppArenacough), it's another win.

Everything I read indicates that the players know their options are severely limited while in the bubble, which is why there was consideration towards ending the season. They were able to bring about some progressive changes as best they can, I think. They got the league to eat some ad money for promoting civic responsibility.

Of course, they will be rejected by the shut up and dribble club, and be derided by those who will say they should drop their contracts and demand unreasonable things. The NBA continues to do right by their community. I am happy to be a fan, and will continue to support them however I can.

Thank you for sharing.

[sterlingice]

I saw this on Twitter earlier today because one of the things trending in Houston was that Toyota Center was going to be a polling place for all of early voting and election day. That's a huge thing to try and blunt some of the voter suppression going on.

SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just find the whole "walking off the job" thing as a protest not against your employer but for a cause bizarre. Like, I get that's the players' power, but it doesn't really mean anything other than no games. And it's spreading, so apparently ESPN workers walked off the job. It's just bizarre to me.


For all those who don't understand why healthcare is tied to your job, this is the equivalent to me.

It doesn't mean anything to who? There are certainly a large number of people who seem to be very appreciative of the protest and it seems to have garnered some results.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

A strike suggests a grievance against your employer, though.

Here's the thing - as far as I see, while several leagues temporarily stopped playing to support the protest, the only one that has resulted in any tangible outcome is the NBA's, and they are the one league that has been vocal in its support of its players. So if they didn't refuse to play but went to the league and asked to partner on some of these initiatives, I believe they would have happened anyway. MLB, NHL, etc., shutting down for a couple of days was just window dressing.

2-3 months ago, their employers talked about their support for the causes of the players. The employers said that they would be partners with the players in advancing the cause. Every sports league and all of the sports TV networks said they are supporting this cause because it was important to them and it was the right thing to do. There are those who believe they supported the cause t was important to the players and if that what they needed to do to keep the money coming in, that is what they were going to do. Whatever the reason, there was pretty much universal support.


Talking specifically about the NBA, remember, there were a significant number of players who did not want to go into the bubble. Not because they were worried if they would be safe but because they did not want the games to be a distraction from their cause. They are not the only ones who had that concern. My assumption is that their employers made certain commitments to continue the support of the cause of their players. There has been a noticeable decline of outward actions from their employers since basketball returned to the floor. I am not saying everything has to be outward. I can't speak as to whether things were going on behind the scenes by the employers. Then the video came out.

Based on several reports, many of the players were done then. Monday, nothing from the employers. Tuesday, nothing from the employers. All the while things are happening in Washington and Kenosha. Then Doc Rivers speaks Tuesday night, the players stopped playing on Wednesday and all of a sudden, the employers seemed to be engaged once again. The causes of the players were once again front and center. Small steps were taken that seemed to be missing since the season restarted.

It is not just their employers, I took a quick look at the Michael Brown thread. IMO, that has been the main thread for these topics. From the day the NBA started until this past Tuesday, there were 11 posts total and four of those were about Masai Ujiri which was also a issue for the players. Since Wednesday, there have been over 150+. The boycott seemed to do more to bring the causes front and center once again than all the special jerseys, painted floors and even the initial release of the video of the most recent shooting.

Would the NBA have partnered with the players on the initiatives without the boycott? Maybe. On the other hand, the players have been talking about Breonna Taylor for the last month while they have been playing and well... I have heard very little from their employers on that issue. I heard little about the Jacob Blake shooting before the boycott. The players believe that their employers are powerful people who have influence and a voice that matters. They want their employers to use their influence to affect change. If stopping the games can bring about these steps, I can't really speak on the other leagues other than maybe this is their first step. I do know their employers made the same commitments. I just don't know if they have the ability to hold them as accountable if the cause is that important to them.

[stevew]

Thought it was a overpay when Jamal Murray got the max, but dude is flat up lighting it up. Crazy shooting display tonight.

[Ksyrup]

Glad I happened to catch the last half of the 4th quarter. That was insane. UL vs UK, can't escape it.

[miami_fan]

Be honest Celtics fans. These three pointers that Marcus Smart are hitting. Good thing or bad thing?

[SirFozzie]

Marcus Smart is the king of many things.

Two of them are the "No, NO! NO!!!! YES!!!!!!!!" and the "YES... NO!" shots

[stevew]

Denver Utah uglyball tonight.

[Ksyrup]

I could not believe Denver tried to score at the end instead of running the clock out. That was middle school ball-type stuff. There was a dude on the left wing all alone and if they pass it to him, he probably dribbles out the game. Instead, they almost gave it away.

[miami_fan]

WTF are these refs doing?

[spleen1015]

Bad call to give the Bucks three FT, then a make up call.

Is it me or is this announcer butchering Giannis' last name every time he says it?

[miami_fan]

So from Champions League analyst to NBA head coach? Sounds like when I close out of FM and then open DDS: PB.

Brooklyn Nets hire Hall of Famer Steve Nash as head coach

[stevew]

The heat laying an ass whooping to this Bucks team is absolutely what the world needs. I'm frankly shocked the Bucks players can even run down the floor without slipping, given all the tears they shed over calls.

[stevew]

And also I know better than to listen to most of what Steven A says, but calling Nash's hiring "White Privilege" is a bit of a stretch. The last two guys hired without coaching experience are Derek Fisher and Jason Kidd. Nash actually has a better playing resume than both of them

[spleen1015]

I guess I'm old school.

That Walker pass is what I like to see, pass for a dunk/layout instead of passing outside for a 3.

[miami_fan]

What an ending!

[spleen1015]

Great play at the end for Toronto.

[BishopMVP]

It's a shame that skilled basketball players like Marcus Smart need to share the floor with floppers like Kyle Lowry.

[stevew]

I used to hate Smart the most on the Celtics, but fuck that Daniel Theiss guy

[stevew]

Also Siakam has been invisible this series. Doesn’t make the 140M extension look particularly good.

[miami_fan]

Expected a bit more from the COY on that last possession.

[stevew]

who snitched on Danuel House for bubble protocols?