Sopranos:The Final Episodes

[Mateo]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I meant to insert th post I got this from:

hxxp://tv.com/the-sopranos/show/314/board/411/topics.html

Inside scoop? I'm just reading shit about the ending as other people are... chill

When your post is started by...

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

So here is what I found out...

...it makes it sound like you came up with that all by yourself. The link helps. Thank you.

The final ep has created more buzz online than anything else I can remember. Except for those stupid cats on the ihasacheeseburger site.

I'm gonna be busy all day reading Sopranos shit.

[Mateo]

[Honolulu_Blue]

One dude's view...

http://www.pajiba.com/tony-from-jersey.htm

The first line uttered by the titular character in “John from Cincinnati” was “the end is near.” For our dear families of “The Sopranos,” of course, the end was last night. It was an open-ended end. It was an ambiguous end. And it was a perfect end.

Yes, for this show, it was the perfect ending. Like many other seasons, the penultimate episode really held the “action,” and this was more of a clean-up episode to show us the aftermath. We see how the Jersey family gets itself more-or-less back on track and out of the turf war by brokering a deal with New York and getting Phil permanently gone. We see how the Soprano family gets itself more-or-less back on track with new houses to build, legal careers (get out now, Meadow — it’s not too late!) and fiancés to marry, and movies to produce and clubs to start. And then, of course, there’s Tony.

In the episodes leading up to this finale, David Chase and company have gone out of their way to de-humanize Tony, reminding us that the head goombah we have come to know and love is. Not. A. Good. Guy. The gambling, Christopher’s murder, the almost-whacking of Paulie — almost every episode this season has acted as another underline of the “anti” in “antihero.” And this finale was no different. Sure, there were some moments where Tony actually appeared to have advanced on a basic emotional level — he showed some actual sympathy and remorse towards Silvio, and there was even a smattering of empathy for Junior. Yet Tony is still, when it comes down to it, the same self-centered son of a bitch he’s always been, and the visit with A.J.’s shrink was meant to show us that Tony hasn’t really made any progress in his journey over the last six seasons, as he quickly steered the discussion of his son’s well being to his own mommy issues.

Now I have to assume that all the talking over the next day or two will be about the ending, or lack thereof. I went to one message board last night and did a quick scan and, as I suspected, it was already full of “worst episode ever,” “I want that hour of my life back,” “they copped out to leave the door open for a movie” and “all that tension and buildup for nothing” comments. Some of you reading this very column may be nodding your head in agreement. Well, at the risk of offending and alienating you, you’re all fucking idiots.

Truthfully, we got a touch more finality here than I was expecting. Phil? Dead. The NYC/Jersey turf war? Resolved (for the moment, although that moment may be fleeting, depending on how you interpret the show’s end). Meadow and A.J.? Apparently moving into rather comfortable places in their lives (although, again, that comfort may be quite shattered depending on that last moment). The Feds? Rolling with the subpoenas and indictments. In fact, the only real ambiguity in this episode was the very end. And that’s really what the insufferable monkeys people are pissed about.

That final scene is, quite simply, one of the best moments this show has ever had. And coming on the heels of last week’s amazingly executed hit on Bobby, “The Sopranos” truly ended on a high note from a direction, cinematography and editing perspective. But the true genius of this scene is that very same ambiguity many are now crying about. Is Tony looking up with every ring of the front bell because he’s anticipating his family members, or is he looking up because, even though the current “war” is over, he fully knows that his life is always one bullet from ending? Are we seeing a truly objective scene, where the guy at the bar really does have an unnatural interest in Tony, or are we simply seeing Tony’s perspective of everyone as a possible enemy (remember that our pal isn’t just cautious, but a raging narcissist)? Does that guy at the bar, who we last see going to the bathroom, really have nefarious plans for Tony, or is it just that maybe he recognized the well-televised head of the Jersey family (or “gang,” as the departed Phil derogatorily commented) sitting in his local diner? And then there’s the final blackout. Did we get cut out in the middle of just another New Jersey night, with Tony simply watching Meadow walk through the door, with the Soprano life, much like a movie, just going “on and on and on?” Or was that Tony’s last fleeting moment, perhaps with Mr. Bathroom Guy returning to put two into Tony’s head? (And yes, there was “peace” with NYC, but surely there were still those loyal to Phil who weren’t too pleased at his capping, not to mention the countless others who must hate Tony because of who he is and what he’s done to them.)

There is so much that can be read into and interpreted out of that final scene, all played to one of the greatest prom songs ever (screw the naysayers — Journey rules), that I dare say it’s richer and more layered than almost any scene that has ever been on TV. And as for “the insufferable monkeys” who call this a disappointment and the television version of blue balls? Well, actually, I take it back. I don’t find you insufferable or think that you’re “fucking idiots.” … I feel sorry for you. I am truly sorry that you missed, or were incapable of appreciating, this final chapter for what it truly was. Look, like many others, I did more than my fair share of pissing and moaning about this show’s decline from the genius of its inception. But even at its dullest and most uneventful, it was still better than 90% of everything else on TV. And there’s no arguing that the show was responsible for a major shift in television. It really put HBO on the TV map, which in turn opened the door for Showtime and FX and cable television programming in general. It also pushed network dramas into a darker, grittier “realism” (that it had more or less avoided in the name of “escapism”) and a more cinematic design and aesthetic. Quite frankly, this show probably had a bigger impact on the nature of television than any show before it, and while I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t personally dub it the best show ever, I might dub it the most important. And tonight’s final chapter was a worthy denouement (and the fact that it wasn’t really a denouement — which is technically where a series of events are firmly resolved — is exactly why it was the perfect ending for this show).

Does Tony live to go on mobbing another day? Or, as Bobby said, did he not even hear his last moment coming? Did Carm and A.J. and Meadow just watch their lives shatter before them as the family patriarch was brutally murdered in a diner? Or was this a rare and happy night in the Soprano’s life?

Many will have their own interpretations of this final moment. I have no such interpretation because, frankly, I don’t care. “The Sopranos” has never been about finality (except with regard to many character’s lives, that is). It’s been about the little moments and incidents that act to form the pastiche of life, be it family life or mob life. And … well, look — I just don’t know how many other ways to say it. I’m in awe of what David Chase did. This was as fitting and “in tone” an ending as the final montage that Alan Ball gave us in “Six Feet Under.” It left me desperately wanting more (something I wouldn’t have believed I’d be saying a mere two months ago) and, just like Steve Perry’s final lyric, I almost want to plead that they “don’t stop.” But that would ruin the beauty of this moment.

[molson]

Originally Posted by GoDukes

I don't need to see that necessarily. I wanted the show to be wrapped up. I wanted everything that was told over the last 7 seasons to mean something.

Geez. The thing I loved most about the finale is that it really separates the fans from the non-fans.

I know a lot of people are disappointed with the finale, I just can't believe those people have actually followed the show all these years.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I never watch one second of the show, but on a whim, I flipped to the show and watched the last 15 minutes. The acting was pretty good (except for the main guy's horrifically stupid voice) and it seemed well directed, but the ending made me think I didn't miss much.

Stick with reality shows. They're easier to understand.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by GoDukes

Cop out. This will go down as a poor ending. The writers are charged with telling a story - and they couldn't end it. They got lazy and couldn't end the show.

Ridiculous. The story did have an ending. The Sopranos life goes on but to us it is over. Some people are just too shallow to look beyond the big blazing ending. Not everything needs to be tied up in a neat little bow.

[Johnny93g]

I just rewatched the whole episode, and the ending stands out even more to me now. Just fantastic. I really think this was the perfect ending. All the posibilities. I'll be going through withdrawl next sunday night for sure.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cartman

I've been very impressed that the details of tonight's episode haven't been leaked. You would have thought somebody would have had enough money thrown their way to spill the beans. They must have said that you would have an actual mob hit put on you if you divulged any of the plot details.

AICN apparently had a recap of the episode on friday or saturday. So some did get to see it days in advance. The Phil hit at the gas station was pretty well a "known" plot point in many of the spoilers I read. Incl the part where the black kid threw up. Maybe the major suprise to me there was that Walden did the hit instead of Bennie. They may have switched them up later.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Typical.

Huh?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by molson

Stick with reality shows. They're easier to understand.

Honestly, I've never watched the Sopranos before, because I've never had HBO until about a month ago, not because I think I'm cool by not watching it. If I had had HBO over the years, I probably would have watched the show at some point.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).
Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends

hmmmm, didn't one of them die in this attempt?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#John_Clayborn

[stevew]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends

The guy at the bar was credited as "Man in the Members Only Jacket" and was a real life philly restaurant owner who only appeared in one episode(this one). I dunno about the other guys in the diner, but I don't think that they are necessarily who people think they may be.

[GoDukes]

Originally Posted by molson

Geez. The thing I loved most about the finale is that it really separates the fans from the non-fans.

I know a lot of people are disappointed with the finale, I just can't believe those people have actually followed the show all these years.

So liking it makes you a fan, hm? Allllright. lol

[Ksyrup]

In some strange way, I wish I had watched this show so I could take part in the universal discussion going on everywhere I look or read. I guess it's because the show aired on HBO that it never seemed like a big deal to me, since I wasn't constantly hit over the head with commercials for it, etc., but I had no idea this show was so big. I saw one episode years ago, out of boredom late one night - I think it was about Tony running into a snitch while up in the NE taking his daughter to scout out colleges - and it seemed like a decent show, but didn't really interest me. But I'm not a mob show/movie fan at all - never seen a Godfather movie, nor Goodfellas (other than a couple of clips), etc. Too bad this show wasn't about something that would have interested me.

As far as "life goes on" endings, I think you either love them or hate them. I didn't particularly care for the Seinfeld ending, and I absolutely hated Broadcast News because of a similar type of ending.

[Maple Leafs]

Never watched the show, but I'm intrigued by the final scene. Has it been posted online anywhere yet?

[Bad-example]

How about that classic scene with Janice and Tony? Janice saying that she got therapy and put all her mother's shit behind her, and right after tearfully saying that she gets no thanks for it. The essence of Janice in three lines of dialogue. Completely self deluded as to how much she really is like dear old mom.

[Bearcat729]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bphuuLi17SU

Here, I don't believe that there is anything unsafe for work about the video

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bphuuLi17SU

Thanks

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bphuuLi17SU

Here, I don't believe that there is anything unsafe for work about the video

Apparently my HBO cut out the final shot of Tony and the family at the table with Tony looking up. The last thing I saw was Meadow heading to the restaurant and then it went to black.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I never watch one second of the show, but on a whim, I flipped to the show and watched the last 15 minutes. The acting was pretty good (except for the main guy's horrifically stupid voice) and it seemed well directed, but the ending made me think I didn't miss much.

you missed a lot

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the black guys at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends

I had an email forwarded to me that originated from some guy at Lehman Brothers with this exact wording.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Honestly, I've never watched the Sopranos before, because I've never had HBO until about a month ago, not because I think I'm cool by not watching it. If I had had HBO over the years, I probably would have watched the show at some point.

It's not that you didn't watch it, it was that you felt like you could have an opinion of the entire series after watching the last 15 minutes. That, and the whole posting in a thread who's topic doesn't interest you in the least.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by molson

It's not that you didn't watch it, it was that you felt like you could have an opinion of the entire series after watching the last 15 minutes. That, and the whole posting in a thread who's topic doesn't interest you in the least was a tad annoying.

I think you need to relax with a nice glass of iced tea.

I watched the end of the Sopranos. I read some of the posts. I posted my impression of the part that I saw in a thread devoted to the subject. I didn't make fun of the show or anything. I just thought that, even though I never watched the show, the ending seemed lame.

[NoMyths]

It was great. The more I think about it (and I've been thinking about it all day) the more I'm impressed. I spent a chunk of the day talking about it with anyone who'd let me harangue them. The final scene achieves the effect it sets out to achieve -- it heightens the tension to a peak using film craftsmanship (the fast intercutting of shots like Meadow's tires, people entering the restaurant, etc.), and then ends at exactly the most tense moment for anything that might have occured next. The effect has its merits and faults -- chief among them being that it is in opposition to the closure effect (descending action, the falling off from the peak to a resolution) the majority of the general audience is expecting -- but it was masterfully done, and it's the only example of which I now know that skirts the fallacy of imitative form (frex, the idea that the best way to write a story about something boring is to write boring sentences) and yet finds a compelling place beyond the emotional effect to a fulfillment of the series' themes.

It was a really remarkable magic trick: we as the audience were demanding something never before seen on television. Chase and Co. delivered. And the better you know the series, and the more you enjoy it for the non-whacking scenes, the more this end becomes the most effective way to exit the Sopranos narrative. Whatever happens afterwards, we feel at the ultimate moment exactly how Tony Soprano feels: that everyone is a disappointment or a threat, and that the end could come before you even know it. And then it did.

I really can't praise The Sopranos as a whole enough -- for its flaws and the limitations of its medium and makers, this episode and this series, are a landmark in the art of filmmaking. Last night we saw something that will be a watershed moment for future television narratives and where they can go. But time needs to go by for perspective, as with most great art.

[Toddzilla]

Given how the critics and fans of The Sopranos have smashed David Chase specifically and the show in general for not living up to expectations and not paying off in a way we came to expect after the first few seasons, this had to be Chase's way of saying "Screw all of you people, this is *my* show and I'll end it *my* way." He threw all the blood-thirsty fans a bone with the episode last week, and this week he indulged himself.

In the end, however, the show's legacy is left to the fans and critics, and Chase pretty much sealed the fate of The Sopranos as perhaps the biggest undelivered promise in dramatic television - 2 or 3 of the best seasons in television history followed by 4 seasons of self-indulgent ungratifying crap, with the finale episode - and the final scene - a perfect example of what's been wrong with the Sopranos for so long.

[Buccaneer]

This is interesting as it got my wife and I talking about series finales again. She is the "wrap-it-up-and-tie-a-ribbon" type and I am the opposite, which is why she hated the Quantum Leap finale and I loved it. We have no opinions about Sopranos since we don't get HBO nor have any interest in doing so but I told her, alluding to Sopranos, that half of the fans will love it and half will hate it - no matter which type of ending they choose to do.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

In the end, however, the show's legacy is left to the fans and critics, and Chase pretty much sealed the fate of The Sopranos as perhaps the biggest undelivered promise in dramatic television - 2 or 3 of the best seasons in television history followed by 4 seasons of self-indulgent ungratifying crap, with the finale episode - and the final scene - a perfect example of what's been wrong with the Sopranos for so long.

The show certainly has changed a lot during it's run, but it's very much an issue of preference. I watched season 1 recently, and to me, it really hasn't aged well and doesn't stand up to depth we've seen the last two years.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

This is interesting as it got my wife and I talking about series finales again. She is the "wrap-it-up-and-tie-a-ribbon" type and I am the opposite, which is why she hated the Quantum Leap finale and I loved it. We have no opinions about Sopranos since we don't get HBO nor have any interest in doing so but I told her, alluding to Sopranos, that half of the fans will love it and half will hate it - no matter which type of ending they choose to do.

It's been a while since I have seen it, and not to threadjack, but I thought that Quantum Leap wrapped up nicely.

Spoiler

Sam ends up in the bar talking to the big guy in control and is told that he was doing this for a reason and then is given the choice to continue or go home and Sam decides to continue.

Or am I totally wrong on this

[Buccaneer]

Bearcat, Sam was never given the choice, it was asked rhetorically because both knew the answer. We never knew (and this was the part my wife didn't like) whether he ever made it back home - definitely a "life goes on" ending or Sam's case, "leaps go on".

[spleen1015]

My family moved in the middle of the final season of Quantum Leap to a place that didn't have a local NBC affiliate. So, I never got to see how it ended. I loved that show.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

My family moved in the middle of the final season of Quantum Leap to a place that didn't have a local NBC affiliate. So, I never got to see how it ended. I loved that show.

The final season is out on DVD (I've watched most of it recently, except for the Evil Leaper, never got into that). The season ended with a Civil War leap, a great Elvis leap and then the finale.

Sorry to threadjack.

[Noop]

You the viewer was the one who got wacked.

[Bubba Wheels]

Some critic on Countdown (watchable with reg host MIA) quotes Chase as saying "its all there if you watch it." The show was about Tony's life, and the screen goes dark just as Meadow walks in. Someone goes in the john right before and two 'brothers' are browsing the case close by.

The opinion is Tony is dead, never saw it coming. Meadow is the last thing he sees.

[cartman]

From over at Fark:

[Karlifornia]

Dudeskis! Everything about the ending was a juxtaposition of what television dramas are supposed to be. An escalation of drama achieved through pure direction and cinematography, which would presumably lead to an easy followthrough, and use of music to add to said tension. The followthrough was a followthrough, but it was the polar opposite of what most envision a followthrough to actually be. The music did heighten the tension, but it was with a power-ballad that most roll their eyes at upon hearing now. I think the music choice would be akin to hearing "Welcome to the Jungle" during a wedding scene. It has the rising action you're looking for, but it casts such an odd light on the scenario that it just works, and is so not cliche that it feels very fresh.

Anyways, I think the ending took the "what you don't see is the most horrifying possible thing" route. We just don't know......If we had seen Tony getting shot in the face, it would have been closure, yes. But what the hell does closure even mean in regards to an alternate universe?

And to those who say "I feel like I've wasted 8 years of my life"....Just watch CSI...they wrap that shit up in an hour every week. That should suit you just fine. That's not a knock, and I'm not saying that makes you less an appreciator of art, but it's just different tastes, and it's too bad you mistook a gun going off every other episode for Terminator 4.

[lcjjdnh]

First, I loved the ending.


Second, thought this might interest people:


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...id_what_w.html

What do you do when your TV world ends? You go to dinner, then keep quiet. Sunday night, "Sopranos" creator David Chase took his wife out for dinner in France, where he's fled to avoid "all the Monday morning quarterbacking" about the show's finale. After this exclusive interview with the Star-Ledger, agreed to well before the season began, he intends to go into radio silence, letting the work -- especially the controversial final scene -- speak for itself.
"No one was trying to be audacious, honest to god," Chase said. "We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people's minds, or thinking, 'Wow, this'll (tick) them off.' People get the impression that you're trying to (mess) with them and it's not true. You're trying to entertain them."
Read the full story in Tuesday's Star-Ledger.

[hawk4669]

Originally Posted by cartman

From over at Fark:

Ok...that made me truely LOL. And my crew at work is looking at me quite strangely now.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers!

[cartman]

A couple of more observations:

The flip side of the Journey single on the jukebox was "Any Way You Want It"

The name of the episode where Junior shot Tony was "Members Only". The guy that was seeing walking into the bathroom was was wearing a Members Only jacket.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by cartman

A couple of more observations:

The flip side of the Journey single on the jukebox was "Any Way You Want It"

The name of the episode where Junior shot Tony was "Members Only". The guy that was seeing walking into the bathroom was was wearing a Members Only jacket.

Nice. See, if we had had a clear ending, this type of discussion wouldn't be happening. This is fun, people!

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by molson

Geez. The thing I loved most about the finale is that it really separates the fans from the non-fans.

I know a lot of people are disappointed with the finale, I just can't believe those people have actually followed the show all these years.

Perhaps if you put the terms "blind loyalist" in there, your comment makes sense. Because by your definition, I'm sure people who didn't like the finale cannot be fans, which is of course absurd.

I watched every episode of the show. I really liked the final 2 episodes. I liked the show overall, but all things considered, i could only really recommend seasons 1-3 to someone who had never seen the show. I thought there was just a ton of fluff in 4-7.

[lcjjdnh]

Interview with Chase:
http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/sep...l=1&thispage=1

"I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there," he says of the final scene.
"No one was trying to be audacious, honest to God," he adds. "We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people's minds or thinking, 'Wow, this'll (tick) them off.'
"People get the impression that you're trying to (mess) with them, and it's not true. You're trying to entertain them."

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cartman

The name of the episode where Junior shot Tony was "Members Only". The guy that was seeing walking into the bathroom was was wearing a Members Only jacket.

Yeah, i noticed that as well. Kind of a bookend effect for the season IMO.

If you don't think he dies, it kind of sucks that some stupid punk kid getting busted for E would be the reason that Tony gets taken down. Maybe then it all goes back to the fact that AJ is such a putz, and he wasn't enough of a leader to calm the Gervasi boy down and put him in check like he needed to.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

The music did heighten the tension, but it was with a power-ballad that most roll their eyes at upon hearing now. I think the music choice would be akin to hearing "Welcome to the Jungle" during a wedding scene. It has the rising action you're looking for, but it casts such an odd light on the scenario that it just works, and is so not cliche that it feels very fresh.

I watched the clip someone posted above, and the funny thing about the music is that I had the exact opposite reaction to it that you did. I bet he had this whole thing planned out years ago, down to the music, because before the White Sox hijacked this song, it was one of those guilty pleasure-type songs, but since 2005, that song has been everywhere and is far more acceptable to listen to. So when I heard it during the clip, I actually thought it was almost cliche how late to the party he was for using it. Someone got there first, and instead of coming off like Tarantino using Jungle Boogie, it smacked of bad timing.

[Neon_Chaos]

To anyone who TiVoed the last episode, was Tony holding/eating an orange during any part of the show? If he did, then I believe he got whacked from the blind side by the guy who went into the bathroom. (Following the recurring theme of oranges=death from the Godfather) Meadow was the last thing he saw, and then boom. "I bet you don't hear it when it happens."

Silence, and the credits roll for the first time without any music.

[Qwikshot]

I think he (Tony) lives.

Yes, the orange is an homage to "The Godfather", hell, just about one reference an episode did that...and that's an interesting thing, was the "Godfather" so big that it resulted in the mob acting like it, or was the "Godfather" a realistic depiction of what mob life was.

I think the Sopranos was showing a little of what present mob life is. It's dying.

When Phil is talking to his number two, it was showed and stated that "LIttle Italy" has gotten smaller, the guy on the phone wandered into Chinatown. It's dying.

Look at Tony's crew, you think even with him alive, that they'll ever be that big. I liked when Tony finally met with Uncle Junior, to see for himself, to prove to himself that Junior was so far gone that it wasn't an act (Remember Junior wanted to off Tony). I loved how he talked to Junior about that "thing" and Junior goes ,"I was part of that?" And Tony goes, "You and my dad ran New Jersey." Forgiveness Tony, and the realization that it won't ever be like that again. It's dying.

You see AJ and Meadow simply following in the footsteps. AJ was for a brief shining moment ready to do something positive - join the army, nevermind the Trump thing, but to actually learn Arabic and be something (of course, what did Michael Corleone do to try to cut ties, join the war) but instead of seeing the positives (and though it was masked by the fear of losing him to war) they corrupted AJ back into his old ways. Meadow was different, she was the one closest to breaking free, but it was seeing her dad get arrested and dating a mobster's son that pulled her back in (170k a year, defending mobsters, excuse me, Italian-Americans). I think Tony was disappointed as much as he was excited at the thought of her success, the one that almost acheived greatness without the taint, which is why he's looking up for her, which is why when he was in his coma he heard her voice (still gives me chills and made me tear up since I gotta little girl of my own).

Carmella is older and wiser, the spec houses are bringing in the income she couldn't rely on Tony for. She builds crappy homes that have rotten foundations due to cost cuts and questionable practices (like getting Tony to get inspectors to okay the house). And while she had guilt that someone could be harmed by the bad roof, we see her looking at new ones to work on.

Tony, still needs the outlet to talk to, hence why he took over AJ's counselor. He's got indictments coming, but the lawyer didn't seem too worried (too busy looking at the dancing girls getting ready) and munching into that hamburger.

In the end the family is intact, but rotten as ever, and no one is there to take the reigns when Tony does finally go off, if Phil had just waited, he could've had this crew easy.

So Silvio is down and out, and Paulie is a nervous captain (I don't think he's a rat)..."I'm old, I just survived my prostate!" The guy wasn't ever a leader, he was an enforcer, and the years are going by that he'll be less and less at that.

So the crew is dying too, I didn't see anyone who shined enough to bring new life into it, and the crew AJ hung out with, the new breed, is getting busted for drugs, just like the old breed, only slicker and more violent, not smart enough to know what to do, not honorable enough to be trusted.

You see Tony raking the leaves and hearing the ducks and smiling, the idea of family was still there. I mean he went to Junior to find a way to help Bobby's kids (lord knows that Janice won't)

Seeing the final moments for the 2nd time, all the tension was gone (I can see why Schmidty wasn't impressed). Tony is always going to live in fear, he's sliding back into the depths. AJ wants him to enjoy the good things, and I think that goes back to when Tony finally came out of the coma, "Every day is a gift." I think Tony has accepted that sooner or later, the lights go out.

So like a episode before, the Doors were playing the instrumental break but I know, knew..."when the music's over, turn out the lights."

Chase did, and it was good.

[Qwikshot]

I don't consider my view to be better or correct than any others' view. I think this is what Chase intended, you draw your own conclusions. It's made the ending that much more interesting...there is no closure per se, just the continuance out of our eyesight and ears, and the imagination of our own as to what happens.

[Ksyrup]

From an objective view of the last scene, not having watched the show, the beauty is that there are enough clues to convince you he got shot, but it's not obvious, so (a) it can retain that unknown ending forever, if he wants it to, ensuring it lasts longer in peoples' minds then it otherwise would have, and (b) it also leaves the possibility of a movie wide open.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I watched the clip someone posted above, and the funny thing about the music is that I had the exact opposite reaction to it that you did. I bet he had this whole thing planned out years ago, down to the music, because before the White Sox hijacked this song, it was one of those guilty pleasure-type songs, but since 2005, that song has been everywhere and is far more acceptable to listen to. So when I heard it during the clip, I actually thought it was almost cliche how late to the party he was for using it. Someone got there first, and instead of coming off like Tarantino using Jungle Boogie, it smacked of bad timing.

I don't think they were going for that kind of musical effect at all. They use so many songs each show that i don't believe they're ever going for the "wow" factor. Not to mention I can say I haven't personnally heard this song any more or any less over the course of the last 15 years. Like most people in america, i have no idea about your White Sox reference, but the song has always been in roughly the same level of rotation on radio for as long as I can remember.

[Ksyrup]

No, it got picked up big time after the White Sox made it their unofficial anthem and had Steve Perry sing the National Anthem, I believe, at one of the WS games. It was uncool before; it became hip after.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Like most people in america, i have no idea about your White Sox reference, but the song has always been in roughly the same level of rotation on radio for as long as I can remember.

Agreed. This thread is the first time I had any idea of any connection between this song and the White Sox.

Then again, I know pretty much next to nothing when it comes to music, so I will trust Ksyrup who seems to know pretty much everything.