04-28-2020, 09:16 PM | #251 |
Pro Starter
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JiMGA, your son's barking right up AM's area of practice, so the best opinions will be his. I spent a summer working for a US Attorney and it was intense but rewarding. The money in criminal practice is to go white-collar defense after putting in your time with the government.
As for choosing between schools, the money should be an important criterion. If it's close, then you can consider more seriously the size of alumni networks, geographic placement, etc. At a glance, Miami is 3 times the size of UTK, which would give it an edge. But I bet UTK grads do well finding jobs in the state of Tennessee in a way that Miami grads might not outside of the city. In terms of positioning oneself to go government, it could be a strong signal to take up any clinical/pro bono opportunities that provide experience in criminal practice or even government law generally. Demonstrated relevant experience is a great differentiator when applying for jobs. (That's part of how I ended up at a state university system after internships at an appellate court, a US Attorney's Office, and a bankruptcy court.) That might also be a slight edge for UTK depending on what offerings they have or how closely the campus works with the state government. |
04-28-2020, 09:33 PM | #252 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Geography matters. Unless you are going to a top 15 school, you should consider the region.
So, if he thinks that Tennessee is where he wants to be, then he should go to UT without a second thought. Same thing if he wants to be in Florida. Go to Miami and don't look back. And the people you talk to are right in that there is a lot more money in Florida than in Tennessee. What I am not quite sure about is how each school would stack up in, say, Atlanta (which is the big market between the two). That might involve a little legwork in terms of looking at Alumni networks. I can say that if I were looking at resumes here in Raleigh, I would consider UT and Miami about on par. I don't have a gut feeling of one as better than the other. There is a pretty big $$ difference between state and federal prosecution. If he becomes an AUSA, he will eventually cap out at ~$160,000/yr depending on region. I think that state prosecutors probably get about half of that. But that is the cap, really. No year-end bonuses or anything like that. If he really wants "I'm thinking of getting a second beach house because my first one is too small" money, then he's gonna have to go big firm. You can google biglaw salaries. They seem to be starting at $190,000/yr now. (no idea how COVID will affect things) edit: To be clear--an AUSA will eventually make $160 (with max seniority). A big law firm associate will start at $190, and it goes up from there. Last edited by albionmoonlight : 04-28-2020 at 09:35 PM. |
04-28-2020, 09:48 PM | #253 |
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Thank you both, tons.
It's getting down to decision time and it's really such a near tie right now , that it becomes hard to avoid having "last thing I heard" be unduly influential. You both provide more voices, helps spread the influence out some if that makes sense.
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04-29-2020, 10:47 AM | #254 |
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I'm in a bit of a legal career bubble, so I don't think I can be any more helpful than the people who already chimed in. But I know a lot about what's it's like to be a state prosecutor and what those agencies are looking for in the hiring process if he gets that far into it. For me, the transition was that into non-prosecutor criminal law roles with a state agency (appeals, federal habeas, legislative support, police training), which was the perfect job for me, so I haven't spent really any time on career networking, advancement, etc. Big law is a fascinating and bewildering world to me. I'm pretty sure I'd hate it. I hear a lot of things about people trying to escape it once they pay off their loans. I know we get big law lawyers applying for our job openings all the time - and we're generally not interested because the impression is that they just want to work less and don't care about public service.
The pay in government is limited of course, but it's much better relative to the cost of living in poorer parts of the country than richer. Just as an idea, when I was first starting out 15 years ago, the starting prosecutor salary was the same in Manhattan as it was in Idaho. And in Massachusetts, it was much much less. I remember reading an article that janitors in Boston courthouses made more than the prosecutors. I wouldn't be surprised - it was $35k in 2006 for starting prosecutors there. Saying that your salary went a bit further in Idaho than Manhattan is an understatement. And that kind of dynamic is still true today, even as my career progressed. Idaho doesn't offer a lot of law firms that can compete with with the overall salary/importance of work/work-life balance/job security package you can obtain in government. I'd guess Tennessee may be similar, and that Miami less so. Last edited by molson : 04-29-2020 at 10:51 AM. |
04-29-2020, 11:07 AM | #255 |
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Almost twenty years ago now I did some work for a big firm in MS. Their primary conduit for new associates was Ole Miss, and there were plenty of older attornies that had made that jump and settled in for life. Especially considering the cost of living in MS, I'm sure it was very attractive for those that weren't looking to move to more urban areas.
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04-29-2020, 11:18 AM | #256 |
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Even though NYC, D.C., Atlanta, etc. are more prestigious markets, it was much harder for me to break into the Raleigh market. Big markets can just absorb lawyers.
But smaller and mid-sized cities have a limit to how many lawyers the economy can support. And when you are talking about a smaller market that still has a high quality of life (college towns being a prime example), it can be very hard to get it. Almost easier in some ways to become a big Wall Street banking lawyer. |
04-29-2020, 02:00 PM | #257 |
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The quality-of-life issue is a whole other factor, even when making his decision now (much less a few years down the line).
Realistically, he could likely have a higher standard of living as a student in Knoxville than in Miami (although interestingly rent in similar areas/accomodations seems to be slightly higher in Knoxvegas). And the eventual career push/pull is already weighing on him. He's pretty aware of who & what he is, he knows that he'd be quickly miserable doing (for example) contract law ... even though that's a better paying gig than the criminal prosecution side that he has a passion (and likely more talent) for. I don't envy him the decisions that lie ahead, but at least I'm smart enough to know that he's the one who has to make them. That ain't my lane.
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05-28-2020, 01:11 PM | #258 |
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Graduated one this morning in a drive through ceremony. It wasn't what it should have been, but it was good for the options we had. He'll be out the door before I know it and right behind him, his little brother steps up to take on his own Senior year next year.
Note his flower that he has on. It was his flower from when he graduated 5th grade. They kept it in the fridge to show it to me when I got home from a trip, and after a week, he was so impressed in the shape it was in he decided to see how long it would go. After a year, he was like, I'm keeping it until I graduate! Well....he did. And it looks amazing. All sorts of mixed emotions of excitement, sadness, relief, proud. My brain is subconsciously counting down until August, but my consciousness won't acknowledge that it's actually coming..yet. One more milestone crossed.
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He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam Last edited by PilotMan : 05-28-2020 at 01:48 PM. |
05-28-2020, 01:14 PM | #259 |
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Congrats PM (jr)!
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05-28-2020, 01:23 PM | #260 |
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Congrats PM!
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05-28-2020, 01:33 PM | #261 |
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That's awesome!
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05-28-2020, 01:37 PM | #262 |
Favored Bitch #1
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Location: homeless in NJ
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Love the flower story!
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05-28-2020, 07:46 PM | #263 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Congrats. My son also graduated today in a drive-through. The school had a virtual graduation on You-tube this weekend. Now we wait to see if his campus will open in the fall. No decision will be made till July.
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05-28-2020, 10:00 PM | #264 |
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Congrats.
School said some sort of July graduation (tentative) for my daughter. She had pizza outside with several friends where they social distanced. |
05-28-2020, 10:18 PM | #265 |
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Congrats to all of the graduates. I know things are a bit dark now, but the future really is bright. Just keep moving forward.
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06-21-2020, 01:32 AM | #266 |
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And late Saturday night, Will made his decision official.
This fall he will head to Coral Gables, to attend The University of Miami Law School. Well earned. And the journey continues.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
06-21-2020, 08:16 AM | #267 |
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Congrats, Jon.
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06-21-2020, 08:46 AM | #268 |
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06-21-2020, 01:09 PM | #269 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
Please tell me that he said, “I’m taking my talents to South Beach.” Congrats to you and your family. |
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06-21-2020, 02:34 PM | #270 | |
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Quote:
Damn. He's gonna be so pissed at himself when I point out the blown opportunity there edit to add: Actually, he DID lol This fall, I'm going to take my talents to South Beach and join the University of Miami School of Law! I couldn't be more excited to accept a generous offer to be in the Class of 2023 and look forward to what lie ahead over the next 3 years
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 06-21-2020 at 07:26 PM. |
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06-21-2020, 04:57 PM | #271 |
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Good for him. Hope he kicks all sorts of ass there.
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06-22-2020, 10:53 AM | #272 | |
Coordinator
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Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
Congrats to him and the family! I welcome him to THE U and the Hurricane family. One suggestion. I know you mentioned that he was looking for a little spot he could call his place. For the sake of his studies, please tell him NOT to make the The Rathskeller that spot
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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06-22-2020, 12:37 PM | #273 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2000
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Quote:
Yeah, I suspect he'll be too busy to do TOO much of that sorta thing lol. He'll arrive knowing exactly one person there, she's one year ahead of him - former schoolmate & older sibling of an HS classmate. I imagine she'll be able to both help him avoid trouble AND find trouble lol. Her & my wife have actually become semi-close over the past couple of years (independent of Will) so she's more family friend at this point than simply former classmate. Truth is, I feel better that there's at least ONE person on the ground there that he knows than I would if the number were literally zero.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-09-2020, 12:10 AM | #274 |
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Since this thread was where several people were quite helpful with their insight about law school and online vs in person, I thought I'd update with how that turned out (since he got his class schedule about an hour ago)
Mon - 2x classes (4 credit each) online ("Torts" and "Contracts" if you're curious) Tue - off Wed - 2x classes online, repeat of Monday Thu - 1x class (2 credit) in person (Civil Procedure) Fri - 1x class (3 credit) in person (Law Communications) So it's about 60/40 online, in terms of credit hours. He was ... less than thrilled about that but it is what it is. And probably could have been worse. Orientation stuff all next week, class starts 8/17 ------ Also, since I think I talked about housing at some point, he's settling into his new digs now. 1 BR condo in the Dadeland shopping/multipurpose complex. Came at a price about the same as several 1970s/80s vintage walkup apartments would have been, so right now I'm counting the housing as a solid win.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
08-12-2020, 12:40 PM | #275 |
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I wasnt sure where to put this, as there are 3 threads it could go into, but settled on this one.
This new study from Yale is going to have a domino effect, and sadly its really starting to look like everybody will transition to remote instruction for at least the first semester. Students need to be tested every 2-3 days for colleges to safely reopen | YaleNews |
08-12-2020, 02:35 PM | #276 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
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08-12-2020, 04:15 PM | #277 |
Coordinator
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This is my daughters HS grad pic. She finished 3rd in her class and is going to one of the best engineering schools in the nation to study aerospace engineering. It was 155 degrees on the field according to one of the guys at school. My daughter earned honors in all disciplines and was named outstanding science student.
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08-17-2020, 04:10 PM | #278 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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UNC shutting down in-person classes.
Multiple outbreaks at dorms and frat houses. |
08-17-2020, 04:11 PM | #279 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
Pic isn't showing up. I'd like to see it if you've a non-corrupted version. |
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08-17-2020, 04:42 PM | #280 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Madison, WI
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Quote:
Dorms that house primarily first-year students, too... UNC going back early is certainly a useful test case for the other schools who are operating on a schedule that is a few weeks behind. But ugh. They made it all of two weeks from move-in and one week from the first day of classes. |
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08-17-2020, 04:59 PM | #281 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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Yeah, doing drop off at Purdue now. We shall see if VT is still on in a week.
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08-17-2020, 05:10 PM | #282 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mass.
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Quote:
This is the test that the university where I work is doing as well. We are aiming for about 10-12k tests a week |
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08-17-2020, 05:14 PM | #283 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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My niece was supposed to start at UTEP this fall. But since she is only 16, they've now said she has to wait until next fall to be on campus.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
08-17-2020, 05:53 PM | #284 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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The son of a guy I work with is at UNC. He was already pissed at having to spend $60K for a mainly online college experience. This is probably not going to make him happy.
I know a bunch of people questioning why they are paying $25K+ for a University of Phoenix education. You want families to suck it up because the colleges are in a bad place? Figure out how to run your business better.
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08-17-2020, 08:14 PM | #285 |
Coordinator
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Im not sure what to do with that pic. It is showing up for me.
Missouri S&T finished move in today and there are 2 stuents that have tyestyed positive. I doubt any school is open past Sept. 15.
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Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
08-17-2020, 09:08 PM | #286 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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I'm really curious whether or not we can pull it off in NY. On the one hand we have normal students that will socialize and a mass of commuters that will live their lives off campus. On the other hand, if it can't work with NY's current positivity rate, it can't work until there's a vaccine.
I just hate having to be a part of the experiment.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-17-2020, 11:06 PM | #287 |
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Just using this as a prompt to add another data point. Will got tested (Natl Guard site at Marlins Park) last Thursday, still no results. I think it was the swab the brain style test. Wouldn't worry about his lack of results so soon EXCEPT that a friend got tested a week ago today and still hasn't gotten results either. So if his take that long, he'll be unable to attend his first in person class scheduled for Thursday. Hence he's trying to get ANOTHER test (at the University itself) tomorrow in hopes of getting SOME result back in time. Point being simply that the process and efficiency definitely seem to be varied.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
08-18-2020, 08:19 AM | #288 | |
Grizzled Veteran
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Quote:
I definitely wouldn't pay 60k for online classes.
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08-18-2020, 11:32 AM | #289 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Madison, WI
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Gotta feel for kids. No good options. Unless somebody finds the money to start hiring a bunch of contact tracers...
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08-18-2020, 12:20 PM | #290 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dayton, OH
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Son moved into University of Cincinnati on Sunday. I'll keep you all posted, as kids are slowly moving in all week. They really are trying to keep everyone as distanced as possible, but if my son and millions of college-aged kids are any indication, they won't be wearing masks when in proximity to each other no matter how many "rules" you put in place.
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08-18-2020, 01:03 PM | #291 |
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Yep. I was just on my campus and passed three groups of 4-6 students. They were outside, but none of them were masked and they were shoulder to shoulder talking.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-18-2020, 02:15 PM | #292 |
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There's certainly a reasonable question about whether some diplomas are going to be eventually considered with an understood/presumed asterisk.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
08-28-2020, 08:53 AM | #293 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Head to the airport this morning with my son to fly to school. The second we get to the airport, we find out the flight is cancelled. I have been searching, but I can't find any reason why. It was his connecting flight from Baltimore to Albany.
The biggest problem is he needed to catch a shuttle to the school (an hour away) at 6:30. His new flight now won't make it till 8:10. We are trying to figure out alternatives, but it looks like he is going to stay overnight in Albany to catch the shuttle tomorrow. That is if the shuttle is not full. Frustrating. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Last edited by GrantDawg : 08-28-2020 at 08:54 AM. |
08-28-2020, 10:02 AM | #294 |
Head Coach
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God that sucks. I can only imagine how frustrated you must feel right now.
Can he just take a ride share instead of waiting on the shuttle?
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08-28-2020, 10:19 AM | #295 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
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And now his flight out of Atlanta is delayed another 30 minutes. Grrrrrr...
No, Pilotman. He can't check in at the school that late. We got him a hotel room in Albany. We had to make sure he could check in there (he is only 17), but luckily they have a deal with the college. I was very close to flying with him, but it would add it's own challenges at this point. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk |
08-28-2020, 10:43 AM | #296 | |
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Quote:
fwiw (for future reference) -- that sort of thing is a bitch, or at least a worry, when these situations arise but we actually had pretty good luck for a several years with calling ahead to hotels and such to get it sorted out ahead of time. Ended up solving every situation with no more than two calls on any of them. Seemed better to deal with the minor hassle of calls & explanations than to worry about a kid getting stranded / screwed / etc.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-28-2020, 11:11 AM | #297 |
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Grant: Where's he going to school?
If there's a big problem, Albany is only 90 minutes away or so and I could probably help out.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers Last edited by JPhillips : 08-28-2020 at 11:11 AM. |
08-28-2020, 07:27 PM | #298 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Thanks, JPhillips. Very nice to offer. He is going to Williams College. I think we are going to be ok, but it has gotten crazy.
He finally got to Baltimore for what was going to be a 3 hour layover. We are now on 6 hours. The new flight was delayed, and at last report it was not boarding until 9:50. They did just say they believe it should be a little earlier than that now. The poor kid has spent a long day waiting in airports. I regret not flying with him, but he just wasn't having it. He is just having an adventure. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Last edited by GrantDawg : 08-28-2020 at 07:28 PM. |
08-28-2020, 07:39 PM | #299 |
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If anything comes up, if I can help I'd be happy to.
Of course he sees it as an adventure, he's 17. I hope the best for him.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-28-2020, 08:39 PM | #300 | |
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Quote:
That's exhausting. You're not doing anything, but it's exhausting. The fun meter is totally pegged the whole time.
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He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam Last edited by PilotMan : 08-28-2020 at 08:40 PM. |
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