Pro Strategy Football 2013 for iphone/ipad released! Post impressions.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Just an update (you guys have been quiet!)

I have chat working, along with some other features, but I'm having troubles with the new version of Xcode right now, and it's hard to determine what's going on. I googled and found other people running into this (lots of zombie processes), but I can't submit this update until I know my app isn't going to cause memory problems.

Sorry for the delay, believe me! But I sure don't want to submit something buggy.

Been working on it, testing the chat, all day, to make sure it correctly switches between live matches, etc, but I'm going to stop now to get ready for the big game!

I'll update you guys soon.

[Pro Strategy Football]

well, some good news! I *think* I've found the issue with the chatting (I'll be testing it a lot later this week, but M-W are swamped), AND even more importantly, in looking, I found a goofy logic error in the computer play. I looked, and the error has been there since the very beginning, so I'm glad I found it.

Shame football season is over!

[Julio Riddols]

Its good to keep checking this thread and see you pushing to improve the game constantly. It'll be a beautiful day when I can load up a version on my laptop and play a friend online. Until then, these updates are much appreciated. Believe me, we're keeping an eye on the progress too, this forum is thirsty for something new in a football sim.

[SegRat]

Any chance you will start a forum on your web page? Would be a great place to find more people to play against and talk about the game.

[Marc Vaughan]

I have chat working, along with some other features, but I'm having troubles with the new version of Xcode right now, and it's hard to determine what's going on. I googled and found other people running into this (lots of zombie processes), but I can't submit this update until I know my app isn't going to cause memory problems.

Feel free to PM me info if you think I might be able to help (generally speaking I try and walk at least a version of two behind the latest XCode version unless forced to upgrade by apple ).

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I"m also eagerly anticipating the chat feature!

[Pro Strategy Football]

Marc, good point about Xcode. What was killing me was mixing cocos2d and UIKit - the resulting memory juggling wasn't clear to me (when do I autorelease, etc), but I think I have it now. I ran Instruments and it looks good. Still don't know why Xcode leaves zombie processes hanging around. I guess you have to shoot them in the head?

SegRat, great question, and ... I don't know! I'm a noob on that area, need to look into it!

[Pro Strategy Football]

Marc, it appears that updating Xcode to 4.6 was a mistake. Either that, or the sandbox Game Center isn't working, because I now receive no events when a turn is sent without "refreshing" game center. I checked, and Xcode 4.6 now requires a base sdk of 6.0 or higher, which has api changes for game center code.

Since I just want to get this final patch out and close out the 2012 version so I can proceed with the 2013 work, I'm thinking I'll download an older Xcode and use it. Have you even had multiple Xcode installations on a machine, and does it work ok? I'm hoping that Xcode 4.4 works, else I'll have to try 4.2 or so.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Quick update. I've completed the patch, but can't submit it until the Game Center test sandbox is back working correctly. Other people are discussing this as well, so I'm glad it's not just me (although I wasted multiple hours trying to fix something I hadn't even broken).

The patch will have the chat, but will also have somewhat improved AI, including plugging a hole that a few people kindly whispered me about (thanks!). I'll give more details later, but right now, I want to focus on new features, which takes me to my next post ...

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

The suspense is killing me!

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Pro Strategy Football

Since I just want to get this final patch out and close out the 2012 version so I can proceed with the 2013 work, I'm thinking I'll download an older Xcode and use it. Have you even had multiple Xcode installations on a machine, and does it work ok? I'm hoping that Xcode 4.4 works, else I'll have to try 4.2 or so.

(also sending this as an email - echoing here in case anyone else is wondering)

I've never attempted to install multiple XCode versions at once - Apple actively dissuades such things generally.

You can however archive (ie. make a backup copy) of any SDK's which have gone obsolete and then manually copy them back into the new XCode version - I use that for my OSX builds as some of the graphics libraries I use in my debug build are now obsolete.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, as you know, I'm now thinking of 2013 designs.

One of the things I very much need to do is rewrite the underlying multiplayer logic to use my own server and database rather than Game Center. That's going to take some doing.

In addition, I'm going to look around for a graphics artist or two who might sexy the UI up some. A friend has suggested I check the local colleges.

The other thing I have to look at is where to take the overall direction of the app such that I can greatly broaden its appeal and base. I see three possible versions:
(a) a simpler version for people who just want to play turn-based multiplayer football, but don't want all the advanced stuff (I'd use the name "Family" in this version);
(b) the current version, but with improvements and more options;
(c) a RPG/Career mode, including some nice "Oregon Trail" features suggested by Paul (thanks!)

So, I'm looking at four pretty major tasks, and my effort right now is to determine the feasibility of each and when.

First off, I have a question about the career mode. As I think about it, it seems to be inherently single-player to me. Do you agree? At the very least, depending on what else I do, I think I'd aim for a single player career version for September, and then extend it to league/multiplayer later if that's something people want.

I believe the multiplayer change is crucial, and would affect both the simple/Family version and the Pro version.

I also think the Family version wouldn't be too difficult, and wouldn't take too long to get it functional.

Adding some new offensive and defensive options to the pro mode will hopefully go quickly as well.

Sexying up the UI - well, I hope I can find someone to help there, or I'll spend too much time on it.

So that would bring me to the career version. It would have the same game engine as the Pro version, but have somewhat different flow, since you now have one team rather than being able to select any team for any match. In addition, you'll have preseason, midweek, etc tasks.

After thinking of the "options explosion" I think these should be different apps rather than having one very complicated app where you first choose whether to play a career game or not, then whether to play Family or Pro, then choose whether to play multiplayer, etc.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Thanks, Marc - got it! And unfortunately, after hours of frustration, I found out over on developer forums that it's a GC/sandbox issue, so I'm stuck. I'm going to branch my code off and start on the new features (after I check all my code in, I've fallen behind on that).

LWSFS, I hope the post right above this helps? What do you think?

I don't think I can duplicate the full career functionality yet of apps that have been developed over years, but I'm going to see what I can do by September, and then just continue to add to it.

BTW, I had to drop Android development for now, since it was getting so involved that it became "Android or these other version" - I *still* want to get my app on multiple platforms, and I know I can, it'll just be later than I'd hoped. If I can get these out in good shape by September and then focus on the Android version, I'd hope I could have it out in six weeks, maybe less if tools have improved a lot by then.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, here's another option, but I just don't know whether I can make it work and still keep it user friendly - one product (probably the Family/simple one), with the others (Pro and Career mode) as in-app purchases.

My worry is that it'll get complicated.

I can't think of a good way to offer these options in a user-friendly way yet. You'd then have all these possibilities:
- play a Family/simple game
-- multiplayer
-- local play (vs computer or pass and swap)
- play a Pro exhibition game
-- multiplayer
-- local play (vs computer or pass and swap)
- play a Pro season game (actually, go to the Pro Season screen, where you can do more than just play)
-- multiplayer
- -local play (vs computer or pass and swap)
- play a Career game (again, maybe it would be a button to go to the Career screen, where you can go more than just play a game)

- load a saved game (Family, Pro, Career)

If I can find a way to make this flow simpler, I think in-app purchases would be great! Maybe I should look for someone who specializes in UI flow, since presentation is so critical.

OH! And I want to eventually (asap by or after September) add the ability to create actual online leagues (only for the Pro version) where friends would join a league and play each week's games. That can get very complicated, depending on how flexible I make it (NFL only, with 17 weeks? or variable numbers of teams and weeks?), but I'd start basic.

Well, that adds yet another level of complexity. And some people just want to get in and play, not make all these choices. Of course, hopefully those people would start with the Family version and get all these choices only by consciously purchasing them.

[Julio Riddols]

Making the family version and the pro version separate apps seems like the easiest way to do this. I just don't really see the need for a family version, because I feel like simple football games like that are a dime a dozen, and PFL without the depth of strategy just doesn't seem that attractive of a game to me.

I know I can't speak for everyone, and I don't even have a phone to play the current game on, but that's just my thoughts on this. I think a vast majority of the people interested in this kind of game are the type that want depth and strategy to be the meat of the game. The only arena of simulation football currently not available out there is an accurate coach sim where you can coach remotely against real humans in leagues in a convenient way, so that seems like the best way to make your game unique.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Yay, finally submitted the 1.3 update!

** you should not have to uninstall your previous version before installing this one, but if you don't see your chat messages, you may have to remove the previous version and reinstall this update

- added chat functionality for multiplayer games
- now warns you if you click to create a new season, and you have one in progress (also if you try to sim or play a game which is already in progress)
- no longer shows your call if time expires before it's run, such as at the end of a quarter or two-minute warning
- improved the AI

[Julio Riddols]

Keep plugging away, man. Every step forward is exactly that.

[PilotMan]

I agree. I haven't seen the product yet (no iphone), but keep at it!

[Pro Strategy Football]

thanks, guys

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, assuming everything goes well in this latest patch (and it should, it's been tested, but I've learned that almost anything can happen), I'm now branching off to the 2013 stuff.

Quick question re. career mode. I'd like to tackle it in phases, with the first phase being single player. I have not tried the other manager sims yet, but it seems to me that using a career mode with multiple people managing teams could get problematic, only because one person may want to go quickly through a season but could wind up waiting for others who are taking the season much more leisurely.

What are your thoughts on career mode and multiplayer?

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I would start off with single player and career mode. I did like the idea mentioned earlier in terms of allocating a certain amount of points in the draft to shape your team.

Good luck!!

[SirBlurton]

I agree with LWSFS, people will still have the option to play multiplayer "head to head" - I'd be really happy with a single player career mode as part of a staged release.

And by happy, I mean thrilled.

And by thrilled, I mean shut up and take my money!

Will echo the good luck wishes!

[SegRat]

I agree with above. Start with single player career mode while just keeping single game head to head.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Thanks guys! (LOL, Sir Burton!)

[JimboJ]

+1 for single player career mode

[Pro Strategy Football]

sounds great!

Speaking of sounds, I'm working on something else, too, for 2013 - adding more sounds during and after a play. It's coming along well, but I still need to add quite a bit.

My goal will be for the announcer to yell "Fumble!" or "Intercepted" or "Wow, what a catch!" and "He's in open field!" etc during the play (and replay), and after the play to say "First down!" and "Penalty!" etc ("Two Minute Warning" etc)

It would also be nice to add more music options, but I'm putting that off to last, since you can always turn music off and listen to your own.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Don't know if it is possible, but it might be nice to have a special overlay during the game when a player hits certain marks. 100 yards rushing, 100 yards receiving, 300 yards passing etc

[SegRat]

For myself, I usually turn all sounds off. They are nice at first, but they get old fast. I play headcoach football on my iphone, when a interception or fumble happens you get a nice little pop up screen which is nice.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Good feedback, thanks! I'll make sure you can turn the voice off, and I really like the milestones idea!

[JimboJ]

One thing I used to like about the old Front Page Sports Football was whenever there was a fumble or interception, a big red message would display that said "FUMBLE!" or "INTERCEPTION!". In this game its easy to miss the little player dancing whenever a turnover happens.

[Pro Strategy Football]

that's a good idea, Jimbo - thanks!

It would be nice if I could do something like the very old Batman fonts where they did Pow, Zowie, etc. :-)

[SegRat]

Just downloaded the update, now I just need to find someone to play.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I am up for a game. Excited for the new chat feature!

[SegRat]

Chat is a nice addition.

[Pro Strategy Football]

let me know if you guys run into any problems

Also, since Apple displays ratings for the latest version once there's enough ratings, once you're happy with the new version, I'd appreciate anyone rating it again. Thanks!

[Pro Strategy Football]

BTW, I think the game probably needs some tutorial mode. For example, you might not know how to call timeouts or whether you can try to get out of bounds, and I'd point you to the Clock button.

A tutorial mode would take you through all the options, but in an attractive manner.

Problem is, such a tutorial itself can take quite a while to script out and create, which takes me away from "real work." I guess I could also create more training videos ...

[SirBlurton]

I don't know if it was just a happy accident, but I found the clock controls pretty early in playing the game and I didn't look at any of the "help" or manual information before playing....in my opinion, it's pretty intuitive.

A tutorial would be a nice addition - but anyone with a minimum level of curiousity is going to find the options pretty quicky.

Just my opinion!

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SirBlurton

I don't know if it was just a happy accident, but I found the clock controls pretty early in playing the game and I didn't look at any of the "help" or manual information before playing....in my opinion, it's pretty intuitive.

A tutorial would be a nice addition - but anyone with a minimum level of curiousity is going to find the options pretty quicky.

Just my opinion!

I completely agree with this. The first time I needed to stop the clock, I easily found the controls to do it.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I will also chime in and say that I don't think any further tutorials are necessary. I figured everything out rather quickly.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Sounds good. Also let me know if you have issues with the AI. Always trying to improve it.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Here's the new offensive call screen for the basic version (Family Strategy Football?). It's greatly simplified, but behind the scenes, the same logic is used, and I randomly assign the pass pattern and receiver or ball carrier depending on the situation. Working well, just need to finalize some logic.

The defensive screen is similar, except you choose a formation and focus. In order to keep it basic for casual players, I made "Blitz" a formation. In reality, it becomes a 4-3-4 with all three linebackers blitzing.

On the home screen - again to keep it casual - I've taken out season play for now.

Oh, btw, I don't know why it never dawned on me to put a play description on the screen until I started working on the "casual" version, but I'll be looking for places where I can do the same in the pro version. I think I'll be able to do it on all screens.

That way, the Pro game also teaches people.

I'm also going to be working on play resolution some, such as improving end runs when you have a quick back.

[JimboJ]

I really like the simplified play calling. I would probably use it every now and then if I want to speed up the game, or just not have to think too much. Instead of calling it the "family version", why not just add an option at the start of each game where you can select either basic or advanced play calling?

[Pro Strategy Football]

Thanks, Jimbo, I'm thinking of several options. I'm still open to the idea of one app (would need to be the basic one, with other options as in-app purchases), but I need to think about the UI. I can always change that, I'm focusing on the functionality right now.

If I make the "family" one a separate app, I figure I'd charge less and hopefully broaden the audience to people who don't want the full monty. The other reason to keep them separate is that the more options I add, the more complex it becomes just to start a game, and I'm already concerned, because I read over and over that today's app purchasers want quick and easy. Click "Play" or "Load" rather than lots of choices.

For example, there could potentially be all these combinations:
(a) basic game, exhibition, vs computer
(b) basic game, exhibition, hot swap versus another person
(c) basic game, exhibition, simulate (computer vs computer)
(d) basic game, exhibition, multiplayer (network)

(e-h) advanced, same options

(i-p) now add in season play, all above (hopefully adding network play)

That's 16 options just to start a game, and for the life of me, I haven't found a nice friendly way to do that - AND that's not counting career mode. Career mode, though, which has several other options on its own screen.

I agree that I'd like to have it in one app, but I am concerned about the UI.

Thanks again.

[Pro Strategy Football]

hey, just to let you know I really appreciate fan's suggestions, one of the things I'm working on now is expanding options on punt returns, based on some suggestions from users.

In the 2013 version, you'll be able to set two options on punt returns:
(1) the rush can be Normal, Heavy/Block, or Watch for Fake;
(2) the return can be Normal, Fair Catch, or Let it Roll

If you try blocking the punt, I was thinking maybe you can only fair catch or let it roll, unless they're punting from inside their ten yard line, but another fellow suggests that's too restrictive. I might at least have it lower your return average, since you have less blockers (they're rushing, aren't they?).

I'm going to add muffs, too, and your chance to muff goes up very slightly (1-2%) if you try to let the ball roll.

oh yeah, another thing - have you ever tried a quick kick? Yeah, me neither. But I'm going to change the game so that if you punt on any down other than fourth down, the defensive rush is very light and they can't return the punt. In fact, with the new punt return options, the ball will automatically roll.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, I asked Dan but would like to open this up for discussion. Dan has suggested I add an option to hold backs and TEs in to block, which I would expect to particularly help against blitzes.

A couple of things on this. First, for every choice the user makes, there needs to be trade-offs, or they may as well just always leave it on. I've been reading on the Internet, and can't find any real disadvantages to holding your backs back. One article did suggest that your overall completion % may drop a little, but your pass blocking frees up longer routes.

Thoughts on that?

Second, the UI. I'm looking at two ways to do this. The simpler way for the user (and me) is to add a single checkbox option below the "Play Action" checkbox, titled "Hold Backs and TEs in to Block" - it would be all or none, very simple.

The other option would be to make "Stay and Block" as a pass pattern, so you could set it for each back and TE separately. That's more powerful, but also a little more cumbersome.

Again - thoughts?

Thanks!

[JimboJ]

As you said, holding your RB and TE to block should help you against the blitz and reduce the chance of a sack. The tradeoff should be less chance of a completion, since there are more defenders to cover your WRs, especially if they don't blitz.

As far as how to implement it, I would vote for making it a "route" for the RB and TE.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Sounds good, Jimbo. I have the routes working now on the offcall screen. If you select a back as your primary receiver, and he's blocking, it won't let you proceed - either select a different primary receiver or give him a route. I'm working on the animation and logic now.

I also have the logic of the new punt return options working (let the ball roll or fair catch), but need to work on when the AI should call it, and need to work on the animation. I figure the animation can wait until I get all the new stuff in.

[Pro Strategy Football]

In the 2013 version, you'll want to avoid holding or grounding penalties in your own end zone. If that happens, you give your opponent a safety!

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Just want to say thank you for the quick responses you have given to all my questions and comments over on facebook. I wish all companies had customer service like yours!

[Pro Strategy Football]

Just want to share my plan for 2013:
(1) finish PSF 2013 Lite (lighter offense and defense)
(2) finish adding new features to Pro (offenses, defenses, punt returns, etc)
(3) finalize decisions and design on new multiplayer/chat

I hope to have both done by the end of May, which gives me 2-3 months to finish up the remaining things (below) and release by September 1.

At that point, I'd evaluate these last three things, because I need to do these either in parallel, or with help, or give priority to one or the other:
(a) design and implement at least a basic career mode;
(b) improve the UI to look more professional and perhaps using team colors;
(c) market the game

As an "engineer" I lean more toward (a) first, but I have to put on the business hat and give (b) and (c) their due, too.