WW XXXV ( night phase ends friday 9:00 AM,) SAW!!!!

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Just some more food for thought - the wolves would not want a tie on day 1. They would want a villager lynched. A tie, and they are also a day behind.

Ties, are confusing and too much of a hassle to try and figure out sometimes. The only way I can see a tie working out in the villager's favor is to create some last minute moves by wolves towards the end of the day. You're right cronin, the wolves are also a day behind as a villager would most likely have been lynched last night, but on the other hand, we prisoners also lose a day in that we lost that one chance to find an assistant and cut his stomach open.

Ugh... Just call me Very Fucking Confused.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

To explain: There are very few players who, as wolves, would have targeted SnDvls last night.

Exactly like i expected...i even addressed this on day one(explaining to LSG why i would kill her on night one this game if i was a wolf):

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Because you are a fairly rescourceful player, but your not considered on the experience level of players like cronin and sndvls. You would make a solid kill that would generally be considered against what is expected of me as a wolf.

I highly doubt the wolves will kill you, no worries. I have 4 people i expect to be chosen from.

Everyone, including you right now expects me to make that move...why would i?

I didnt see any clues he was the seer by the way, so im not sure how anyone could have been that intuitive.

[Tyrith]

As much as I'd love for there to be a good reason to lynch blade, I have to agree with his logic, there would be no way to pick up a seer tell on Day One like that.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I didnt see any clues he was the seer by the way, so im not sure how anyone could have been that intuitive.

Well, neither did I, but I almost never see the same clues you do. I didn't read your post to LSG as making SnDvls a likely candidate at all.

[Blade6119]

Dola, my four people were myself, cronin, sndvls, and saldana...it all played out last night like i expected. Its also a cunning wolf, as sndvls was the only one of the four of us to not take a firm stance on yesterday or play a key role in the tie/lynch thing. It was the best kill i could see them making last night, in retrospect, and for that i applaude the wolves.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, neither did I, but I almost never see the same clues you do. I didn't read your post to LSG as making SnDvls a likely candidate at all.

My post meant that everyone(based on previous rants to this games GM) would assume i would kill off the vets first. I have trumpeted that...so as a wolf, expecting everyone to think that way, i would go after newer players. Maybe you dont think im smart enough to make that progression in my head, which either way matters little in the end. So far the argument i see you using is one i could use against you. Unfortunately, i still think we need to kill tyrith to gain knowledge of the day 1 lynch(especially now we lost the seer already). Information from lynches is our only path to victory now, we cant afford to screw around and have last second ties.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

As much as I'd love for there to be a good reason to lynch blade

May i ask why?

[Tyrith]

I'm still jealous that Lathum got to explode you in the middle of the day during the Egypt game, I want my crack at you

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

When you prove I had selfish intent at heart -- other than objectively trying to win the game -- tell me. Until then, I will not stand for being insulted any further. Don't make it personal.

I believe he meant selfish in the sense you took your own personal game experience, and its continued existance, and put it before the groups need to find out info from the lynch, to search for keys(which you very well may have in you), and to allow people to make moves that could be incriminating/earning of trust.

I dont think the issue comes in the fact you tied it, the issue is that you waited until it would be impossible for anyone to react to it and decide either way. There is a difference between self-preservation and personal victory, and that of a team victory. Your actions yesterday were conducive to one and not to the latter. Thats as tactfully as i can put it tyrith, as to his reasoning. Now thats working under the assumption your a villager. If your evil, then other motives come to light. Your defense of nequa is also quite interesting now that i know for sure neither of you are the seer...

[Blade6119]

VOTE TYRITH

We need to learn about yesterdays lynch, and actions today have been quite interesting regarding his defense.

[LoneStarGirl]

Vote Tyrinth

I said I was going to do this, and I stick by my word. I would have voted earlier but I got distracted with my class.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I believe he meant selfish in the sense you took your own personal game experience, and its continued existance, and put it before the groups need to find out info from the lynch, to search for keys(which you very well may have in you), and to allow people to make moves that could be incriminating/earning of trust.

I dont think the issue comes in the fact you tied it, the issue is that you waited until it would be impossible for anyone to react to it and decide either way. There is a difference between self-preservation and personal victory, and that of a team victory. Your actions yesterday were conducive to one and not to the latter. Thats as tactfully as i can put it tyrith, as to his reasoning. Now thats working under the assumption your a villager. If your evil, then other motives come to light. Your defense of nequa is also quite interesting now that i know for sure neither of you are the seer...

It's not like there was some secret block on people changing their votes. Facts of public record: 1) My vote was uncast. 2) I was watching the thread the entire last hour. And I was referring to that act of selfishness, too. You would not have learned ANYTHING from that lynch, except that you probably would have gone apeshit on whichever poor soul decided to untie it to kill me. The odds of Neuqua receiving the tiebreaker vote were slim to none. Furthermore, I am the only person I know for certain is a good guy, so I have a vested interest in keeping myself alive and not throwing my life away so you can "learn" from a random vote, cronin's suspicion vote, self defense, and someone just trying to break a tie even though they could have done it anyway. So you'll see if I value extending the game another day by giving them another warm body they have to go through more important.

[Tyrith]

And for the love of all SPELL MY NAME RIGHT, or I'm going to start slandering the rest of your names just because.

[Tyrith]

I'm just tired of you all making sweeping generalizations about my character and why I did it without actually taking the time to thinking about the logical merit behind the situation, even if you disagreed with.

[Lorena]

At the rate this is going, it's gonna be a landslide and we would have learned nothing with another pile-on vote.

FWIW, I think Tyrith's (hey I spelled your name right ) last minute vote was a poor decision, but I don't believe him to be an assistant. He's guilty of creating a rukus but that's about it. Now it's gonna be a piece of cake for the assistants to cast a vote for what seems to be a for sure thing.

[Alan T]

I agree with Tryeth fully.

[Lorena]

and we would have learned nothing, yet again until a night action is performed.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I agree with Tryeth fully.

lol

[Lorena]

and tryeth he is

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay, for those of y'all who don't think we should vote for Tyrth, who do you think we should vote for? Give us Tyrth voters reason to not vote for him and maybe we will change our vote

[oliegirl]

I'm with LSG...still holding off on casting my vote, but until I see some convincing evidence or theories on why we should lynch someone else, I'm going with tyrith.

[Lorena]

In the Animal Farm game, GE and Chubby were tied and I decided to vote for Chubby at the last minute and he ended up being a villager, GE was a wolf. All I'm saying is that sometimes people get caught up in the moment and don't think very clearly... I was lynched because of that decision. I'm not sure how much experience Tyrith has, but the last minute vote was a poor choice (like mine was in that game).

The games I've played, the wolves were fairly quiet. There are some wolves that have more experience that are more vocal, but I wouldn't doubt if one of the wolves is a noob.

[Neuqua]

With SnDvls being killed the first night I am pretty sure one of the wolves has got to be one with more veteran experience. I doubt a noob would be smart enough to pick off an ideal candidate (according to Blade atleast.)

Again, like Day 1, there seems to be no reason or rationalization to vote one way or another and it looks as if Tyrienth (jk) is going to be lynched regardless. I'll save my vote for later in case of some unforseen events.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

With SnDvls being killed the first night I am pretty sure one of the wolves has got to be one with more veteran experience. I doubt a noob would be smart enough to pick off an ideal candidate (according to Blade atleast.)

Again, like Day 1, there seems to be no reason or rationalization to vote one way or another and it looks as if Tyrienth (jk) is going to be lynched regardless. I'll save my vote for later in case of some unforseen events.

Or he/she got lucky.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Vote Tyrinth

I said I was going to do this, and I stick by my word. I would have voted earlier but I got distracted with my class.

LSG, please revote with the named spelled correctly just in case

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I'm just tired of you all making sweeping generalizations about my character and why I did it without actually taking the time to thinking about the logical merit behind the situation, even if you disagreed with.

I have stated a couple times now i fully understand your move, and your reasons behind it. As i have stated, alone i wouldnt like it but it deal with it. But coupled with your in my mind defense of nequa and interesting player earlier in the day it looks a lot worse. Others have simplified it to simply the late move, but i have not. I have also not been misspelling your name, so i will ask you to stop making sweeping generalizations as well. Its frustrating to me just as much as it is you...

[Tyrith]

The lack of activity is more frustrating than anything else.

[Blade6119]

Then lets have a chat...what do you want to discuss? Maybe the night kill last night, st. cronin's play so far, what?

[Tyrith]

The night kill just seems like an ultra solid play...but...that said, there is the flash factor of killing someone out of the you/cronin/saldana trio. It's an experienced move to dodge the BG. It makes me suspect one of those three or Gram is a bad guy leading the way, or someone is playing really smart and going for the total UTR play. Which really says nothing.

Cronin...well, to be honest, when I die his play will become clearer. He doesn't seem wolfish right now, but he's usually out there with ideas. Today's move doesn't seem to make a lot of since, so that is a strike...actually, now that I think about it, it's actually rather disconcerting.

[Blade6119]

Who would you like to go after today?

To put all my cards on the table, im really only willing to vote for you, cronin, or swaggs right now.

[Lorena]

Maybe you guys can help me understand why was tonight's kill such a solid move because I don't see it. I mean, is it the "kill the vets" mentality?

[Lorena]

or, that should have read, last night's kill.

[Lorena]

or this morning. Goddamn, I'm so clueless.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Maybe you guys can help me understand why was tonight's kill such a solid move because I don't see it. I mean, is it the "kill the vets" mentality?

In my personal opinion they killed the a great player who didnt take a serious stance in the whole situation yesterday and one who had no heat on himself. They killed a player who was VERY unlikely to to be lynched, which is great for the wolves, they killed an intelligent player with a proven track record, they killed the seer(who may have hinted, not sure), and left us today in the exact situation we were in yesterday(which either means they have given up on tyrith or hes good). Basically, it was a maximum reward kill for the wolves that gave the villagers basically no information that in any way could be at all helpful.

[Tyrith]

Out of that group? My reasons for killing cronin are stupid crap reasons that got me into trouble - his reasoning today is REALLY weak. Swaggs forcing a tie doesn't make sense as a wolf move though because the wolves want dead bodies. He could have started a pile on me and gotten it over with. That said, he also voted randomly, which is the greatest innocent tie generator ever. If he was really busy he may have just dumped a vote and ran. This is highly perplexing, because I don't have any real clue on either of them.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

In my personal opinion they killed the a great player who didnt take a serious stance in the whole situation yesterday and one who had no heat on himself. They killed a player who was VERY unlikely to to be lynched, which is great for the wolves, they killed an intelligent player with a proven track record, they killed the seer(who may have hinted, not sure), and left us today in the exact situation we were in yesterday(which either means they have given up on tyrith or hes good). Basically, it was a maximum reward kill for the wolves that gave the villagers basically no information that in any way could be at all helpful.

Oh, and the kill had almsot no chance of running into the BG.

[Grammaticus]

Of those with votes, I can go with Tyrith or Oliegirl.

Tyrith based on his conflicting posts and ensuring we could not react to his tie. I do tend to think it is very possible a case of personal survival over team value. I would feel a lot better about him if he would have laid out the tie early and let people react. Expecting others to proactively fix it for him was just not realistic. Then I wish he would have just come clean and stopped trying to support the tie as a good thing after the fact.

Oliegirl has been nonexistent which gives us nothing to consider later on in the game. I could see Izulde and Neuqua in that group as well. In fact I would pick Neuqua between Oliegirl, Izulde and Neuqua.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Of those with votes, I can go with Tyrith or Oliegirl.

Tyrith based on his conflicting posts and ensuring we could not react to his tie. I do tend to think it is very possible a case of personal survival over team value. I would feel a lot better about him if he would have laid out the tie early and let people react. Expecting others to proactively fix it for him was just not realistic. Then I wish he would have just come clean and stopped trying to support the tie as a good thing after the fact.

Oliegirl has been nonexistent which gives us nothing to consider later on in the game. I could see Izulde and Neuqua in that group as well. In fact I would pick Neuqua between Oliegirl, Izulde and Neuqua.

I'd have to believe a tie was a bad thing for that to be the case. And no, it's not unrealistic to expect people to move their votes to a dogpile to prevent people from screwing around, I've seen it done again and again in other games, probably by people play in here.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

In my personal opinion they killed the a great player who didnt take a serious stance in the whole situation yesterday and one who had no heat on himself. They killed a player who was VERY unlikely to to be lynched, which is great for the wolves, they killed an intelligent player with a proven track record, they killed the seer(who may have hinted, not sure), and left us today in the exact situation we were in yesterday(which either means they have given up on tyrith or hes good). Basically, it was a maximum reward kill for the wolves that gave the villagers basically no information that in any way could be at all helpful.

Well, the fact they got the seer is a real bummer. I'm a have to go back and check his posts to see if there was some sort of clue. If the wolves killed, say saldana or you or cronin (more experienced players) it would be the same kind of "smart" move no?

[Lorena]

The problem with the person breaking the tie is, if they chose a villager in error, then they would get the axe the following morning as it would be considered a wolfy move.

I can see why some might think twice about doing that.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Well, the fact they got the seer is a real bummer. I'm a have to go back and check his posts to see if there was some sort of clue. If the wolves killed, say saldana or you or cronin (more experienced players) it would be the same kind of "smart" move no?

No. Killing blade is too obvious, he's the most likely target for a BG because there are certain people that like to make him die. Cronin and saldana have bigger reputations than SnDvls does and thus are more likely to have BGs guarding them. Also, both of them had votes on me, which means they will look more suspicious if and when I'm dead. But SnDvls, he wasn't doign anything, yet he has a great capacity for doing things. Kill the person least likely to be lynched and least likely to be guarded.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Well, the fact they got the seer is a real bummer. I'm a have to go back and check his posts to see if there was some sort of clue. If the wolves killed, say saldana or you or cronin (more experienced players) it would be the same kind of "smart" move no?

No, because cronin, saldana, and i have all taken strong stances on this issue, cronin and i are both considered fairly solid lynch choices at this time, and if were wrong about our views the wolves want us alive to mislead the villager. Sndvls had none of these negatives.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

The problem with the person breaking the tie is, if they chose a villager in error, then they would get the axe the following morning as it would be considered a wolfy move.

I can see why some might think twice about doing that.

Exactly. And there are lots of situations where I could see people breaking ties for the sake of breaking ties. there's a chance that you might catch a wolf that way, but a smarter wolf would just stay out of it and let the sweet-minded group worker good guy do the nasty job.

[Tyrith]

Cronin is also being quiet, by cronin standards, I think. That's usually a useless tell, but who knows.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I'd have to believe a tie was a bad thing for that to be the case. And no, it's not unrealistic to expect people to move their votes to a dogpile to prevent people from screwing around, I've seen it done again and again in other games, probably by people play in here.

This post bothers me, because earlier in the game you said you reread the rules and realize a tie is no-lynch, did the math and it was not worth keeping the extra villager around (supporting lynch over no-lynch). You even said the downside would be ending up in the same place tomorrow.

So, what made you change your mind on that logic?

[Tyrith]

The fact that we couldn't actually get anyone talking about what the heck we were doing, and we were just doing crappy votes. Day One votes CAN mean something, if there's actual activity and not just random votes and self defense. I tried stirring activity and look where it got me.

[oliegirl]

Why am I being grouped in with possible wolves simply because I haven't been around much today? I explained where I was and what has been going on, why I haven't been around much. I have a ton going on right now, but just because I can't sit on the computer and check in every hour or so doesn't make me an assistant/wolf/whatever. If that is the only accusation/reason for suspecting me, then I've given you plenty of reasons/alibis/defenses...if there is something else, tell me so I can defend myself against that, but I swear to you, I'm a prisoner...

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

After doing some math about the numbers and some likely scenarios, I don't suppose it's really worth keeping the extra villager alive...my only problem is, who do we kill? And how do we manage to make any sense of the voting record after we decide to kill this person?

This post is the one gramat referenced, and is incredibly opposite of what tyrith claimed the second he got on the block...funny how that works out

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

In my personal opinion they killed the a great player who didnt take a serious stance in the whole situation yesterday and one who had no heat on himself. They killed a player who was VERY unlikely to to be lynched, which is great for the wolves, they killed an intelligent player with a proven track record, they killed the seer(who may have hinted, not sure), and left us today in the exact situation we were in yesterday(which either means they have given up on tyrith or hes good). Basically, it was a maximum reward kill for the wolves that gave the villagers basically no information that in any way could be at all helpful.

I went back and noticed this little tidbit. I wonder if based on Blade's response, the wolves went after Sndvls.

I'm not blaming Blade at all, I'm saying that maybe LSG thought killing Sndvls would be solid move and reacted based on the response. She may or not be a wolf, but I find it interesting.

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Blade, why would you have killed me if you were a wolf? Now the wolves are going to kill me tonight and try to frame you. Thanks for throwing me under the bus.

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Because you are a fairly rescourceful player, but your not considered on the experience level of players like cronin and sndvls. You would make a solid kill that would generally be considered against what is expected of me as a wolf.

I highly doubt the wolves will kill you, no worries. I have 4 people i expect to be chosen from.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The lack of activity is more frustrating than anything else.

Sorry that we have jobs

Vote tyrith