Official College Football Week 12 Thread - Page 6

Swaggs · 11-19-2012, 09:37 AM

I can't recall exactly how things went down, but if Ohio State would have taken its postseason ban last season, would they have been BCS eligible this year?

If so, that is an all time blunder.

Matthean · 11-19-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I can't recall exactly how things went down, but if Ohio State would have taken its postseason ban last season, would they have been BCS eligible this year?

Yes. BCS payout last year was just over 21 million for 'Bama and LSU. Oops.

JonInMiddleGA · 11-19-2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

The only way to make them want to schedule marginally better schools is to really hammer them in the computers/polls for playing those games.

To stick with one of the examples I used here, I don't know how much it's worth hammering a UGA for playing Buffalo. Not a very good team (4-7) ... but they lost to UConn by one possession and to Pitt by two possessions. And they trailed UGA by only 8 at halftime before losing by 22. Georgia beat four conference opponents by bigger margins.

The FSU-Savannah State game is more unusual than games like UGA-Buffalo.

Ben E Lou · 11-19-2012, 09:41 AM

I dunno, cuerv. If you're FSU and go undefeated, you're in unless there are multiple BCS Conference undefeated teams, which is becoming less likely every year as more conference championship games pop up. If they don't lose to NC effin' State, they're fine. Ultimately, if you're in one of the top conferences, you lose one game, and if everything falls right, you have a shot. If you're in a second-tier conference, then if you're really a national title contender, you should win 'em all.

Ben E Lou · 11-19-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Plus, you've got a good understanding of how things are for a number of the BCS schools. A game against, say, Iowa State isn't any more compelling a draw in Athens than a game against Troy State, especially not if it means a home & home.

Yup.

Swaggs · 11-19-2012, 09:43 AM

It would be interesting to see if the two 1-loss SEC teams would really be ranked ahead of them in the coaches poll.

I'm guessing Ohio State would be ahead of Notre Dame and #1.

digamma · 11-19-2012, 09:43 AM

To be fair to FSU, they had to scramble for the savannah state game after their West Virginia series was canceled.

Matthean · 11-19-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It would be interesting to see if the two 1-loss SEC teams would really be ranked ahead of them in the coaches poll.

I'm guessing Ohio State would be ahead of Notre Dame and #1.

I think the computers would favor ND. Big Ten is down and OSU's OOC schedule was cup cake city. Nebraska is their big win and beating a 7-4 Wisconsin team using its 3rd string QB in OT is their big road win. ND at least convincingly won at 8-2 OU. They also can claim a victory over #8 Stanford. OSU has nothing to counter that. I'm not 100% certain 'Bama wouldn't be ranked higher. I don't see OSU going to LSU and winning.

JonInMiddleGA · 11-19-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

To be fair to FSU, they had to scramble for the savannah state game after their West Virginia series was canceled.

True enough. Was Okl State vs Sav State a scramble game too, or was that just a gimme game for the Cowboys (asking, 'cause I have no idea off hand)

Ben E Lou · 11-19-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It would be interesting to see if the two 1-loss SEC teams would really be ranked ahead of them in the coaches poll.

Not after a win over the #4 BCS team. Now if the jean shorts have a down year or probation-induced multi-year dry spell, that would really hurt FSU in that scenario in a future season. But this year if you take away the NC State loss and give them a win this coming Saturday, I really believe they get in.

Matthean · 11-19-2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Not after a win over the #4 BCS team. Now if the jean shorts have a down year or probation-induced multi-year dry spell, that would really hurt FSU in that scenario in a future season. But this year if you take away the NC State loss and give them a win this coming Saturday, I really believe they get in.

I think Swaggs is talking about OSU.

Ben E Lou · 11-19-2012, 10:01 AM

Ahhhhh...gotcha. Too many scenarios running around up in here.

Swaggs · 11-19-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean

I think Swaggs is talking about OSU.

Yeah, my bad. Was talking about OSU and how bad a move it was to not take the post season ban last year (when they finished 6-6).

digamma · 11-19-2012, 01:25 PM

Didn't realize how bad of a weekend this was for Clempson. As consolation for getting knocked out of the Atlantic Division race, they were set up to be an at large team with a win over USCe. Now with Oregon possibly out of the Pac 12 title picture and the Big 12 also looking strong for 2 teams, the Tigers may be heading back to Atlanta for the Peach.

digamma · 11-19-2012, 04:09 PM

But, congratulations to Clempson for being co-Champions of the Atlantic. Yes, they made a trophy.

dawgfan · 11-19-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean

Barkley is out. Unless some sort of Ewing theory action happens, this should be a win for the Irish.

I wouldn't rule out some Ewing Theory action here. Barkley was always going to be the starter this year no matter what, but he's had an underwhelming season given his supporting cast - too many picks. Him being ahead of Wittek on the depth charts was a given, and not necessarily a strong indication of the difference in their ability.

Max Wittek was yet another highly rated, highly recruited Trojan QB, and while he obviously doesn't have the experience Barkley has, he's not short on talent. Maybe having Wittek back there forces Kiffin to call a more balanced game, and maybe Wittek is more careful with the ball than Barkley. I certainly wouldn't be shocked at the Trojans pulling off the win, especially with it being in the Coliseum.

Matthean · 11-19-2012, 07:42 PM

A USC win would rank rather high for the ND haters. At this point I think ND wins it and then covers in the title game.

MrBug708 · 11-20-2012, 12:06 AM

Apparently a nice size rumor that Maurice Lee might push to have his name in the draft

RainMaker · 11-20-2012, 01:27 AM

Why isn't there more anger out of Florida fans in regards to the BCS? They have the same record as Alabama yet played a tougher schedule, have more impressive wins, and a loss that isn't as bad. There is almost no argument you can make to put Alabama ahead of them.

dawgfan · 11-20-2012, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Apparently a nice size rumor that Maurice Lee might push to have his name in the draft

You mean Marqise? You're hearing he's going to challenge the legality of the NFL's early entry rule?

molson · 11-20-2012, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why isn't there more anger out of Florida fans in regards to the BCS? They have the same record as Alabama yet played a tougher schedule, have more impressive wins, and a loss that isn't as bad. There is almost no argument you can make to put Alabama ahead of them.

At the moment there's maybe no argument you could make, but Alabama's only going to the national championship game if they beat Georgia in the SEC Championship game, so the whole thing will take care itself.

MrBug708 · 11-20-2012, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

You mean Marqise? You're hearing he's going to challenge the legality of the NFL's early entry rule?

He was held back a year in high school and is actually 7 months older than Robert Woods. I believe he will be 21 come draft day

JonInMiddleGA · 11-20-2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why isn't there more anger out of Florida fans in regards to the BCS? They have the same record as Alabama yet played a tougher schedule, have more impressive wins, and a loss that isn't as bad. There is almost no argument you can make to put Alabama ahead of them.

Because they know they have survived thus far on smoke & mirrors. I don't know a single Florida fan that has any real notion that this team is particularly good, much less NC material.

Logan · 11-20-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why isn't there more anger out of Florida fans in regards to the BCS? They have the same record as Alabama yet played a tougher schedule, have more impressive wins, and a loss that isn't as bad. There is almost no argument you can make to put Alabama ahead of them.

Having one of the worst offenses in the country doesn't help the argument.

Matthean · 11-20-2012, 10:48 AM

20 years ago...

Easy Mac · 11-20-2012, 10:57 AM

Crap, it's 2002 again?

Chief Rum · 11-20-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I can't recall exactly how things went down, but if Ohio State would have taken its postseason ban last season, would they have been BCS eligible this year?

If so, that is an all time blunder.

What is funny is that it was really obviously a dumb move right from the getgo. I mean, they were crappy last year and they were going to a relatively crappy bowl. Even if they don't make the presumption they would be BCS bound, they had to figure they would be in line for a better bowl this season than the last one. So the second they chose to forgo bowl eligibility this year, I thought that was a very odd decision.

Now it's borderline catastrophic. Meyer is probably privately bitter about that decision (he wasn't in Columbus yet when all that went down).

Chief Rum · 11-20-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

He was held back a year in high school and is actually 7 months older than Robert Woods. I believe he will be 21 come draft day

Because historically that move has really worked out well for USC WRs in the past.

Butter · 11-20-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

What is funny is that it was really obviously a dumb move right from the getgo. I mean, they were crappy last year and they were going to a relatively crappy bowl. Even if they don't make the presumption they would be BCS bound, they had to figure they would be in line for a better bowl this season than the last one. So the second they chose to forgo bowl eligibility this year, I thought that was a very odd decision.

Now it's borderline catastrophic. Meyer is probably privately bitter about that decision (he wasn't in Columbus yet when all that went down).

It's an AD-fireable mistake, IMO.

molson · 11-20-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Crap, it's 2002 again?

If so, I gots some bets to place!

RainMaker · 11-20-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Having one of the worst offenses in the country doesn't help the argument.

I thought wins mattered, not how many yards your offense can put up. If it's about offenses, Oregon and A&M should battle it out in the title game.

Logan · 11-20-2012, 11:44 AM

Jesus, I said it doesn't help the argument, not that it was the argument. It was on the heels of Jon's "smoke and mirrors" comment that even their own fans can see.

JonInMiddleGA · 11-20-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Jesus, I said it doesn't help the argument, not that it was the argument. It was on the heels of Jon's "smoke and mirrors" comment that even their own fans can see.

The jorts crowd ain't exactly what you'd call bashful when it comes to blowing their own horn. There's nary a peep from 'em that I've seen and while the loss to UGA accounts for some of that, narrow escapes vs Missouri and LA-Lafayette seem to have a lot more to do with it.

They know.

bronconick · 11-20-2012, 11:59 AM

If Florida beats Florida State next weekend, you'll hear from their fans. Right now, they're not going to spout off after the last few weeks when privately they're wondering how they're going to score points in Tallahassee.

Warhammer · 11-20-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I thought wins mattered, not how many yards your offense can put up. If it's about offenses, Oregon and A&M should battle it out in the title game.

That is one of the problems with the polls in general. Everyone loves offense. If a team blows someone out in every game by 20 (driven by the offense's prowess), we drool over them. If a defensive team wins by 10 and utterly throttles the other team, we credit the defense, but then lambast them about their lack of offense.

JonInMiddleGA · 11-20-2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer

That is one of the problems with the polls in general. Everyone loves offense. If a team blows someone out in every game by 20 (driven by the offense's prowess), we drool over them. If a defensive team wins by 10 and utterly throttles the other team, we credit the defense, but then lambast them about their lack of offense.

Alabama begs to differ.

This isn't about Florida being less than Oregon offensively ... this is about being outgained by Mizzou by 65 yards, about needing a blocked punt to avoid OT with La-Lafayette, about managing only a single offensive TD against JaxSt, about not looking like a remotely good (much like NC contending) team in a month since beating up South Carolina.

digamma · 11-20-2012, 12:16 PM

And even the South Carolina game was a little strange. At one point, they had 21 points and 20 total yards. Florida has a fantastic defense and a very, very mediocre offense. They've done a fantastic job riding the wave, but I can't put it any better than Jon did. They know.

Matthean · 11-20-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Crap, it's 2002 again?

Now I don't feel so bad for not remembering this happen the first time. I was 10.

I swore it said 20 years from where I got it.

RainMaker · 11-20-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Jesus, I said it doesn't help the argument, not that it was the argument. It was on the heels of Jon's "smoke and mirrors" comment that even their own fans can see.

The argument should be about results. Who beat who. Isn't the goal of the sport to score more points than the other team? Not how pretty those touchdowns look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Alabama begs to differ.

This isn't about Florida being less than Oregon offensively ... this is about being outgained by Mizzou by 65 yards, about needing a blocked punt to avoid OT with La-Lafayette, about managing only a single offensive TD against JaxSt, about not looking like a remotely good (much like NC contending) team in a month since beating up South Carolina.

What's the point of keeping score if it doesn't matter? Why not just line up the teams for 150 plays or so and whoever looks prettiest out there wins.

Logan · 11-20-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What's the point of keeping score if it doesn't matter? Why not just line up the teams for 150 plays or so and whoever looks prettiest out there wins.

What's the point of ranking teams if they should just be listed based on wins without any context?

This is a really loony argument you're trying to present.

JonInMiddleGA · 11-20-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What's the point of keeping score if it doesn't matter? Why not just line up the teams for 150 plays or so and whoever looks prettiest out there wins.

So what do you propose? List the 9 teams that are 10-1 all tied for second?
Otherwise you have to break that tie somehow in order to rank them. Wait, I know, we can use their opponents combined records. Never mind who they played, nor how they performed while playing them.

RainMaker · 11-20-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

What's the point of ranking teams if they should just be listed based on wins without any context?

This is a really loony argument you're trying to present.

That's not the argument I'm presenting. I'm saying if teams have identical records, why isn't strength of schedule being used to differentiate them? That is the argument most people here have made to keep non-BCS schools out of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So what do you propose? List the 9 teams that are 10-1 all tied for second?
Otherwise you have to break that tie somehow in order to rank them. Wait, I know, we can use their opponents combined records. Never mind who they played, nor how they performed while playing them.

There are complex formulas that can give you a relatively accurate gauge of how difficult a team's schedule was. You know, the ones some of you guys touted to keep Boise out of a title game.

JonInMiddleGA · 11-20-2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There are complex formulas that can give you a relatively accurate gauge of how difficult a team's schedule was. You know, the ones some of you guys touted to keep Boise out of a title game.

But not necessarily to the point of "complex formulas" to do so. I've cited the occasional Sagarin (or similar) SOS as a frame of reference but I absolutely trust my own eyeball of a team(s) more than any computation., and I don't think I've done/said anything that would contradict that.

That's very much in line with my preference to see the old bowl-only system returned & the BCS dispensed with.

RainMaker · 11-20-2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But not necessarily to the point of "complex formulas" to do so. I've cited the occasional Sagarin (or similar) SOS as a frame of reference but I absolutely trust my own eyeball of a team(s) more than any computation., and I don't think I've done/said anything that would contradict that.

That's very much in line with my preference to see the old bowl-only system returned & the BCS dispensed with.

You eyeball as to what? Who is the better team or who played the tougher schedule?

I mean if this is about who the better team strictly on how they look to you and not based on any of the results, what's the point in the games?

JonInMiddleGA · 11-20-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You eyeball as to what? Who is the better team or who played the tougher schedule?

In my reply I meant the tougher schedule ... but that really goes toward the broader thing anyway, if you think about it.

Quote:

I mean if this is about who the better team strictly on how they look to you and not based on any of the results, what's the point in the games?

The point to the games would be to provide the working evidence for the eyeball test. I mean, you gotta have something to work from.

dawgfan · 11-20-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

He was held back a year in high school and is actually 7 months older than Robert Woods. I believe he will be 21 come draft day

Isn't the rule based on being 3 years removed from your H.S. graduating class? In which case, Lee wouldn't be eligible for the draft this year.

MrBug708 · 11-20-2012, 10:53 PM

I think his argument would be worth a challenge, but I'm a Bruin

When you will be older than some previous draft picks, its worth a shot

11-19-2012, 09:37 AM	#251
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I can't recall exactly how things went down, but if Ohio State would have taken its postseason ban last season, would they have been BCS eligible this year? If so, that is an all time blunder. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

11-19-2012, 09:41 AM	#254
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I dunno, cuerv. If you're FSU and go undefeated, you're in unless there are multiple BCS Conference undefeated teams, which is becoming less likely every year as more conference championship games pop up. If they don't lose to NC effin' State, they're fine. Ultimately, if you're in one of the top conferences, you lose one game, and if everything falls right, you have a shot. If you're in a second-tier conference, then if you're really a national title contender, you should win 'em all. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-19-2012, 09:43 AM	#256
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	It would be interesting to see if the two 1-loss SEC teams would really be ranked ahead of them in the coaches poll. I'm guessing Ohio State would be ahead of Notre Dame and #1. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

11-19-2012, 10:01 AM	#262
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Ahhhhh...gotcha. Too many scenarios running around up in here. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-19-2012, 01:25 PM	#264
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	Didn't realize how bad of a weekend this was for Clempson. As consolation for getting knocked out of the Atlantic Division race, they were set up to be an at large team with a win over USCe. Now with Oregon possibly out of the Pac 12 title picture and the Big 12 also looking strong for 2 teams, the Tigers may be heading back to Atlanta for the Peach. Last edited by digamma : 11-19-2012 at 01:25 PM.

11-19-2012, 09:43 AM	#257
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	To be fair to FSU, they had to scramble for the savannah state game after their West Virginia series was canceled.

11-19-2012, 04:09 PM	#265
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	But, congratulations to Clempson for being co-Champions of the Atlantic. Yes, they made a trophy.

11-19-2012, 07:42 PM	#267
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	A USC win would rank rather high for the ND haters. At this point I think ND wins it and then covers in the title game. __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

11-20-2012, 12:06 AM	#268
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Apparently a nice size rumor that Maurice Lee might push to have his name in the draft

11-20-2012, 01:27 AM	#269
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Why isn't there more anger out of Florida fans in regards to the BCS? They have the same record as Alabama yet played a tougher schedule, have more impressive wins, and a loss that isn't as bad. There is almost no argument you can make to put Alabama ahead of them.

11-20-2012, 10:48 AM	#275
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	20 years ago... __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

11-20-2012, 10:57 AM	#276
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	Crap, it's 2002 again?

11-20-2012, 11:44 AM	#282
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Jesus, I said it doesn't help the argument, not that it was the argument. It was on the heels of Jon's "smoke and mirrors" comment that even their own fans can see.

11-20-2012, 11:59 AM	#284
bronconick College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI	If Florida beats Florida State next weekend, you'll hear from their fans. Right now, they're not going to spout off after the last few weeks when privately they're wondering how they're going to score points in Tallahassee.

11-20-2012, 12:16 PM	#287
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	And even the South Carolina game was a little strange. At one point, they had 21 points and 20 total yards. Florida has a fantastic defense and a very, very mediocre offense. They've done a fantastic job riding the wave, but I can't put it any better than Jon did. They know.

11-20-2012, 10:53 PM	#297
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	I think his argument would be worth a challenge, but I'm a Bruin When you will be older than some previous draft picks, its worth a shot

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