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Old 11-22-2013, 03:33 PM   #251
cartman
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Clearly the other piece in the puzzle is Trout. We are talking about a Missouri based team, after all.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:38 PM   #252
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Clearly the other piece in the puzzle is Trout. We are talking about a Missouri based team, after all.

The trade is official, it seems. And ironically enough, it does indeed also involve a certain Angels first round pick from 2009!

Trout? No, Randal Grichuk, the other OF picked by the Angels in that first round. I actually liked Grichuk's upside, so I am a little concerned to see both he and Bourjos go in the same deal.

The Angels get Freese and Fernando Salas back. Salas has apparently pitched better than his numbers indicate, so he could be a good addition to the pen. The question with Freese is, is last year the guy they're getting, or is it the 20 HR guy from the year before? I am hoping, of course, for the latter.

I realize they're losing Beltran, but I am a little surprised to see the Cards go so hard after OF depth, with Jay and Holliday and what's his face, the super prospect, in the system.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:50 PM   #253
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Clearly the other piece in the puzzle is Trout. We are talking about a Missouri based team, after all.

I think that's your team in the background there. Keep going after those big puzzle pieces and maybe one day they might win their first World Series.

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Old 11-22-2013, 03:54 PM   #254
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The trade is official, it seems. And ironically enough, it does indeed also involve a certain Angels first round pick from 2009!

Trout? No, Randal Grichuk, the other OF picked by the Angels in that first round. I actually liked Grichuk's upside, so I am a little concerned to see both he and Bourjos go in the same deal.

The Angels get Freese and Fernando Salas back. Salas has apparently pitched better than his numbers indicate, so he could be a good addition to the pen. The question with Freese is, is last year the guy they're getting, or is it the 20 HR guy from the year before? I am hoping, of course, for the latter.

I realize they're losing Beltran, but I am a little surprised to see the Cards go so hard after OF depth, with Jay and Holliday and what's his face, the super prospect, in the system.

Yes they need a shortstop not another outfielder. They already have Jay, Holliday, and Craig next year and have Taveras in the minors though he didn't look up to the hype this year. I hope the best for Freese for you guys. He went to the high school I worked at and is a Cardinal legend from 2011. Unfortuantely I think injuries may have finally got the best of him.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:54 PM   #255
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That's the plan.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:56 PM   #256
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That's the plan.

In the meantime the Cards will continue building from within. Trading stars with large contracts for prospects and building from their minor league system. Fielder never did help Detroit or Milwaukee get over the hump maybe he will finally do it in Texas.

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Old 11-22-2013, 03:58 PM   #257
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In the meantime the Cards will continue building from within. Trading stars with large contracts for prospects and building from their minor league system. Fielder never did help Detroit or Milwaukee get over the hump maybe he will finally do it in Texas.

You don't seem to be aware that the Rangers also have one of the top farm systems.
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:21 PM   #258
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You don't seem to be aware that the Rangers also have one of the top farm systems.

Oh and the irony of your obsession with the former Big 12 team whose best years are Texas' worst... The big piece of the trade puzzle for Fielder and the Cy Young Award winner that Detroit is hoping to free up money to re-sign... both former Tigers.

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Old 11-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #259
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I hate to see Kinsler go, but from all accounts he didn't want to move from 2B to make room for Profar. This also should allow Andrus to move to the lead-off spot. That makes for an interesting top of the order, which likely will be:

Andrus
Rios
Fielder
Adrian Beltre

You thinking Andrus at leadoff? I was kind of thinking Profar would take the leadoff spot as Andrus isnt a very patient hitter.

Profar
Andrus
Rios
Fielder
Beltre
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #260
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Oh and the irony of your obsession with the former Big 12 team whose best years are Texas' worst... The big piece of the trade puzzle for Fielder and the Cy Young Award winner that Detroit is hoping to free up money to re-sign... both former Tigers.

What the fuck do they put in the water in Missouri? Seriously. Do they put too much fluoride in the water, or are they still using lead pipes that are leaching? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. When you and MBBF have nothing, you always fall back on the supposed obsession diatribe.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:45 PM   #261
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You thinking Andrus at leadoff? I was kind of thinking Profar would take the leadoff spot as Andrus isnt a very patient hitter.

Profar
Andrus
Rios
Fielder
Beltre

Of the lineup next season, Andrus looks to be the best fit. I really liked Engle Beltre in the few times he got to bat leadoff last year, but he isn't going to be an everyday player if he makes the 25 man roster again.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:51 PM   #262
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What the fuck do they put in the water in Missouri? Seriously. Do they put too much fluoride in the water, or are they still using lead pipes that are leaching? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. When you and MBBF have nothing, you always fall back on the supposed obsession diatribe.

LOL. Give me a fucking break that your comment at the top of the page had any other purpose than to troll. And sadly you were probably trying to troll MBBF who is a Royals fan and probably doesn't care about or even dislikes St. Louis. Make up whatever bullshit you want but it was nothing but trolling so I call you on your bullshit. You are obsessed with Missouri/KC/St Louis(like I said maybe after watching the 2011 World Series slip away you can't get over it) you bring them up all the time as part of your "witty" jibes.

Truthfully you are more obsessed with bullying MBBF but we have covered this topic before so I will accept that you aren't a piece of shit that still picks on people as an adult and just assume you are obsessed with Missouri and their sports teams' successes.

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Old 11-22-2013, 05:53 PM   #263
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And you seem to take them quite personally, so what is it you can't get over?
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:57 PM   #264
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And you seem to take them quite personally, so what is it you can't get over?

Whatever dude. It's sad how people pile on MBBF here and you are one of the worst. You got called on your bullshit by most of the board in the thread about your grandmother but you still won't give it a rest so I throw it right back at you. You had no other reason for your witty comment except to be a dick so I just returned fire. Why so upset about me doing to same thing you did?
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:59 PM   #265
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Christ, what a shitty trade by DiPoto again. Bourjos has huge value beyond what he can do with the bat and is under control at a bargain price for 3 years, Grichuk is one of the only prospects in the system worth anything and in return we get a couple of guys who have had one good season each.

Cardinals fans should be ecstatic about this trade.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:00 PM   #266
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Not upset at all. You just kept posting a series of non-sequiturs.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:02 PM   #267
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Not upset at all. You just kept posting a series of non-sequiturs.

LOL. Do a search of your own posts and keyword "missouri" or "Mizzou" sometime. It's like you don't even realize the extent of your obsession.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:03 PM   #268
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LOL. Do a search of your own posts and keyword "missouri" or "Mizzou" sometime. It's like you don't even realize the extent of your obsession.

And I'd bet that the vast majority of them are in response to some BS posted.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:05 PM   #269
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But, back to, you know, actual MLB offseason discussions:

A-Rod says that they 'crushed it' in the arbitration hearing. In my experience, that usually means he is going to be one unhappy camper when the decision is announced.

Alex Rodriguez says legal team 'crushed it', likely must wait until 2014 for verdict - ESPN New York
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:06 PM   #270
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And I'd bet that the vast majority of them are in response to some BS posted.

Nope most of them are just trolling like the jibe at the top of the page but feel free to think you are above the frey and not obsessed with Mizzou/picking on people as a grown man.

Shit I'll go a step furthur. Give me a good explanation for your post at the top of the page and I will say I'm wrong you aren't obsessed with Missouri/bullying MBBF. What was the purpose exactly?
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:10 PM   #271
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It was a joke tied to several posts over the past couple of days regarding the jumping the gun about the player in the Royals trade, and the post about how the amount of posts about Missouri sports isn't out of line, because Missouri has multiple NFL and MLB teams.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree if you think that is bullying.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:21 PM   #272
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Looks like Nelson Cruz will be announced as going to the Mets. I had forgotten they were the team that originally signed him.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #273
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Looks like Nelson Cruz will be announced as going to the Mets. I had forgotten they were the team that originally signed him.

Well that makes me feel a little better after they gave a guy - who hit .200 with a .280 on base last year and has the 5th lowest batting average among active players with 3000+ ABs - 7.25M, a little better. Not much better tho. Cruz's home/road splits really worry me. 180 point difference between home and road OPS is a major red flag.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:55 PM   #274
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The Cardinals needed a CFer. Hopefully, he can get on base. If not, our defense just got waaaaayyy better. If the guy hits like Jay, then its a great deal. A very good dfensive CFer? Defintely a need. And now more juice to trade for a SS.

Great deal for the Cards.

Hopefully, a change of place improves Freese. And Salas can be solid.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:57 PM   #275
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Huh.

Guess I need to read this thread. I saw a lot of "cartman" stuff, so I assumed that Ranger fans are defending the trade. That's a good thing.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:04 PM   #276
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Fielder will get his Brewer type numbers in the Rangers ball park. Great trade for Texas.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:06 PM   #277
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Christ, what a shitty trade by DiPoto again. Bourjos has huge value beyond what he can do with the bat and is under control at a bargain price for 3 years, Grichuk is one of the only prospects in the system worth anything and in return we get a couple of guys who have had one good season each.

Cardinals fans should be ecstatic about this trade.

I'm torn. I, too, think we could have gotten more for Bourjos, and frankly, I am more upset giving up Grichuk than I am Bourjos. But it has been so fucking long since we have had a 3B who could hit a HR.

What this makes me think is that we're now a lock to trade Kendrick. With Green in place to start at 2B, we can go do something significant with a Kendrick deal. And then we're also definitely looking to deal Trumbo.

This lineup is starting to look thin, though, in LF and DH (if we move Trumbo for pitching, as has been surmised).
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:08 PM   #278
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Teams that are going after hitters in FA will have to get them this offseason. Next year is looking exceptionally thin for batters.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:16 PM   #279
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Cruz's home/road splits really worry me. 180 point difference between home and road OPS is a major red flag.

Same could be said for Kinsler. His home/road split is roughly .190 OPS over his career.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:21 PM   #280
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Now it sounds like the Cruz to the Mets deal is off for the moment.
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Old 11-23-2013, 03:07 AM   #281
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Yes they need a shortstop not another outfielder. They already have Jay, Holliday, and Craig next year and have Taveras in the minors though he didn't look up to the hype this year..
I mean, he got injured. I obviously love Xander, and I can see why Buxton jumped Taveras as well, but that still leaves Oscar with an argument as a top 3 prospect in baseball (I'm not sold on Sano's contact rate at the MLB level yet). He OPS'd >.800 in AAA as a 21-y/o.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #282
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Most teams have a well known "super fan" that attends nearly every game. The Rangers lost one of theirs a couple of nights ago.

For Sister Maggie Hession, Rangers baseball was heaven on earth | Fort Worth | News from...
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:12 PM   #283
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Jhonny Peralta, St. Louis Cardinals agree on 4-year, $52 million deal - ESPN
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:26 PM   #284
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I figured the Yankees would sign McCann, 5 years, $85 million. They had black holes at RF, LF, 3B, C, SS and 1B for much of the year last season so they had to do something. Plus, they had money to play with after Rivera and Pettitte retired.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:29 PM   #285
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That will teach him not to use PEDs.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #286
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That will teach him not to use PEDs.

Yep. He got a nice vacation last season and cashes in. Baseball is on the ball.

On the baseball side, The Cards have a new CFer and SS. Both weak spots last season. And they gave up nothing of need or want from the team. A good offseason so far.
I wonder what they will do with all the young pitchers. They need to trade at least one of them. Maybe a mid season acquisition.
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Old 11-24-2013, 02:27 PM   #287
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Yep. He got a nice vacation last season and cashes in. Baseball is on the ball.

On the baseball side, The Cards have a new CFer and SS. Both weak spots last season. And they gave up nothing of need or want from the team. A good offseason so far.
I wonder what they will do with all the young pitchers. They need to trade at least one of them. Maybe a mid season acquisition.
They didn't even need to give Det compensation for Peralta since he wasn't tendered. As I said a few pages back, I'd rather have Peralta and Miller than make a panic trade to Balt and lose Miller for Hardy. Now, they can deal from a position of strength and see what happens.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #288
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I figured the Yankees would sign McCann, 5 years, $85 million. They had black holes at RF, LF, 3B, C, SS and 1B for much of the year last season so they had to do something. Plus, they had money to play with after Rivera and Pettitte retired.

McCann hit .257 with 20 homers and 56 RBIs in 2013.

Holy shit. So .257 with 20 homers gets you $17m/yr for 5 years??

That's fucking crazy.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #289
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McCann hit .257 with 20 homers and 56 RBIs in 2013.

Holy shit. So .257 with 20 homers gets you $17m/yr for 5 years??

That's fucking crazy.

helps to be a good defensive catcher...
I find it fascinating to look at some of the value predictions the SABR guys are putting up... apparently this is a good deal for the yankees... which is mind boggling.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:49 PM   #290
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$17 million per year isn't so much the issue with McCann's deal. First, it's the Yankees and $17 million to them isn't the same as most other teams. Second, that position has been a black hole for them for a couple of years now and they're in that 88+ win range where it makes sense to overpay to plug holes.

The concern with the contract is 5 years to a catcher entering his age 30 season with some history of injuries.
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Old 11-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #291
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McCann hit .257 with 20 homers and 56 RBIs in 2013.

Holy shit. So .257 with 20 homers gets you $17m/yr for 5 years??

That's fucking crazy.
Hey, he improved over his 2012 where he batted .230 with 20 HR's. I'm ecstatic that the Red Sox didn't sign him.
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helps to be a good defensive catcher...
I find it fascinating to look at some of the value predictions the SABR guys are putting up... apparently this is a good deal for the yankees... which is mind boggling.
Plus he Plays The Game The Right Way. Can't put a value on that.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:22 PM   #292
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Seems like an unusual signing to me for some reason. Are the Cardinals planning on playing him at 3rd Id assume? Peralta doesnt really feel like a Cardinals type of player I guess.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:25 PM   #293
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Can we just skip over this next baseball season? Please hit the "play until Amaro is fired" button.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:23 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by jbergey22 View Post
Seems like an unusual signing to me for some reason. Are the Cardinals planning on playing him at 3rd Id assume? Peralta doesnt really feel like a Cardinals type of player I guess.
No, SS. Their infield should be Craig at 1B, Wong at 2B, Peralta at SS and Carp at 3B. Surprisingly, Peralta has been a top 5 defensive SS the past 3 years:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=20,d
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:09 AM   #295
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Dan Haren on a one year, 10 million dollar deal? I can handle it. Just waiting til Price hits FA

Last edited by MrBug708 : 11-25-2013 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:48 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by claphamsa View Post
helps to be a good defensive catcher...
I find it fascinating to look at some of the value predictions the SABR guys are putting up... apparently this is a good deal for the yankees... which is mind boggling.

I wonder about value predictions. The rate at which money is entering the game...can you just evaluate them from this point forward? I mean, Madison Bumgarner (13-9, 2.77 ERA) is going to make $3.95M this year. Tim Lincecum (10-14, 4.37 ERA) will make $17M. How do you adjust for value there? Is the market a relevant measuring tool? Does the date the contract was signed matter?

It hurts my brain thinking about these things.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:39 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II View Post
I wonder about value predictions. The rate at which money is entering the game...can you just evaluate them from this point forward? I mean, Madison Bumgarner (13-9, 2.77 ERA) is going to make $3.95M this year. Tim Lincecum (10-14, 4.37 ERA) will make $17M. How do you adjust for value there? Is the market a relevant measuring tool? Does the date the contract was signed matter?

It hurts my brain thinking about these things.
Pretty much every player is underpayed in his first 5 years, and that extra $2-$3m/y goes to the available 30+ y/o free agents. The FA premium is kind of absurd, but it's also a credit to the owners about how much they've kept costs down, and comparing pre-FA players to Free Agents is worthless.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:29 AM   #298
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The thing is, Bumgarner isn't on the arbitration system. He's signed to a team-friendly extension. That can't be viewed through the same metric as your average 0-6 years of service guy.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:28 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by SackAttack View Post
The thing is, Bumgarner isn't on the arbitration system. He's signed to a team-friendly extension. That can't be viewed through the same metric as your average 0-6 years of service guy.
He pulled a Longoria and traded arb years for the security of an extension. Absolutely the right move on his part at this time because it ensures his/his kids(/his grandchildren's) financial security against the chance he blows out his arm in the next year, but it's not at all comparable to an actual free agent contract.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:21 AM   #300
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Nope most of them are just trolling like the jibe at the top of the page but feel free to think you are above the frey and not obsessed with Mizzou/picking on people as a grown man.

Shit I'll go a step furthur. Give me a good explanation for your post at the top of the page and I will say I'm wrong you aren't obsessed with Missouri/bullying MBBF. What was the purpose exactly?

Leave it to a Cards fan to lecture other posters about how to post "the right way".
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