POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Truth social had just $835k in revenue last quarter and lost $16 million.

He just needs to sue for advertisers.

[GrantDawg]

"Today, Celine Dion’s management team and her record label, Sony Music Entertainment Canada Inc., became aware of the unauthorized usage of the video, recording, musical performance, and likeness of Celine Dion singing ‘My Heart Will Go On’ at a Donald Trump/JD Vance campaign rally in Montana. In no way is this use authorized, and Celine Dion does not endorse this or any similar use.…And really, that song?”

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[sovereignstar v2]

^
weird

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So who is "Melvin" voting for this year?

Last we talked about it (early 2023,) he said he was hoping Pence would run and "whoop" Trump. I just checked Open Secrets and the only two donations he has ever made are to Pence in July 2023 and Brian Kemp in 2022. We haven't talked about it since then, and it's looking like 2024 will be the first year of my life that I won't set foot in the state of Georgia, so it's highly unlikely that we'll get to talk in person before the election. My guess would be that given he donated to the campaign, he'll write in Pence again.


On nose-holders, I get it. I know quite a few of them, some of whom didn't just hold their noses, but fought HARD for the Republicans to nominate another candidate in each of the last three elections. (I mean, in 2016 I knew personally just about every individual listed on this page. I know literally no one on it now.) I could easily see myself being a Trump nose-holder if my life experiences were just a little different. I feel pretty confident that I'm doing the right thing, but to be honest, I still have doubts at times when it comes to voting for someone who might advance pro-choice policies. There's next to zero chance of me voting for Trump, but given Pence's stance on Jan 6 and his continued refusal to endorse Trump, if I lived in a state that treated write-ins as a vote, I'd consider going that route.

[JPhillips]

Somebody hacked the Trump campaign and they are blaming Iran.

Irony.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

"Today, Celine Dion’s management team and her record label, Sony Music Entertainment Canada Inc., became aware of the unauthorized usage of the video, recording, musical performance, and likeness of Celine Dion singing ‘My Heart Will Go On’ at a Donald Trump/JD Vance campaign rally in Montana. In no way is this use authorized, and Celine Dion does not endorse this or any similar use.…And really, that song?”

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Because when you think trump you think Titanic.

[QuikSand]

they are not known for thinking through their movie-based-messaging, exactly...

For nearly three years we have been building a juggernaut campaign (Death Star). It is firing on all cylinders. Data, Digital, TV, Political, Surrogates, Coalitions, etc.

In a few days we start pressing FIRE for the first time. pic.twitter.com/aJgCNfx1m0

— Brad Parscale (@parscale) May 7, 2020

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There are some people who view economic/tax policy as their single issue. Some people just don't care about the bigger picture. They just want what benefits them. They'd prefer someone other than Trump but whatever he does to others is not going to affect them. They just want the benefit of what comes from GOP in power. And there's a decent group of people for whom that's an economic issue, not culture war or religion or immigration.

That too. A fair number of people care little about anything other than "how will this election impact ME?" It's "mind your own business" taken to the extreme. Although I wouldn't call people in that mindset "nose-holders." I'd think they just don't give a crap what a candidate says or does as long as they get their tax cuts, and therefore they just view Trump as a useful idiot more than anything else. (I do have one buddy from high school who stays in touch with me who fits squarely into this category. 7-figure income. Routinely golfs with John Smoltz and Chipper Jones. Views Trump as a simpleton, but will vote straight R ticket as long as his business and personal bottom lines benefit. He's Jewish by heritage, but doesn't even care one way or the other about the situation over there. He does seem to love his children, at least...)

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Somebody hacked the Trump campaign and they are blaming Iran.

Irony.

Iran if you are listening...


Just a moment...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

But is the court thing fixed -- was it mostly about abortion.

My people aren't a large group, but they exist. I found them in Columbus; I found them in Marietta; I found them in Tucker. I'm not saying that this type of voter ALONE cost Trump Georgia, but I am saying (and I believe I predicted it here at FOFC or perhaps at FOxL at the time it went down in 2020,) that RGB's passing and Barrett getting put on the court DEFINITELY cost Trump some pro-life 2016 nose-holders, because at that point having an R in the White House became less critical to that agenda. Again, doubt that many of them voted D, but it had to have made them feel a whole lot more at ease about writing in someone like Pence or just leaving the Presidential slot blank.

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah speaking of weird. That whole hacking story is…pretty weird. The info that Politico says they have isn’t exactly ground-breaking…

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There are some people who view economic/tax policy as their single issue. Some people just don't care about the bigger picture. They just want what benefits them. They'd prefer someone other than Trump but whatever he does to others is not going to affect them. They just want the benefit of what comes from GOP in power. And there's a decent group of people for whom that's an economic issue, not culture war or religion or immigration.

What economic policy are we talking about here that would cause them to overlook it? Both parties have very similar economic policies.

[JPhillips]

This just isn't true.

Just off the top of my head,

Upper income taxes
Child tax credit
Spending on clean energy
Unions
Crypto investing
Education spending
Fed independence
Corporate tax rate
CFPB

You can like/dislike, but there are plenty of differences.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Then they're idiots and liars because Biden's gun policy has been known for longer than the last moments before an election. Maybe they don't realize they're lying, but they are

Idiots is arguable, but not liars. Of course his policies were known before that; that's when they made their decision though. A sizable number of people don't make up their mind until the days before the election. They don't find politics in general, the 'horse race', etc. to be as interesting as many of these forums do.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This just isn't true.

Just off the top of my head,

Upper income taxes
Child tax credit
Spending on clean energy
Unions
Crypto investing
Education spending
Fed independence
Corporate tax rate
CFPB

You can like/dislike, but there are plenty of differences.

The child tax credit literally expired under Biden when Dems controlled both the House and Senate. Dems haven't touched the upper income tax brackets in forever (they almost torpedoed the infrastructure bill so they could keep a tax break for the rich!). Education has not seen much spending difference between parties (heck, some of the biggest jumps we've seen is during Republican controlled Houses). And even Obama was proposing cuts to the corporate tax rate before Trump actually did it.

Democrats and Republicans got together to undo SEC regulations on crypto just a couple months ago. The Democrats just launched "Crypto for Harris" the other day.

There's a handful of economic issues they differ on. But they're incredibly minor and it's why we see almost no change in our economic policy no matter who is President. Maybe Ksyrup's friend is heavily invested in who holds seats on the NLRB, but my guess is they're just a Trump supporter who is afraid to admit it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yeah speaking of weird. That whole hacking story is…pretty weird. The info that Politico says they have isn’t exactly ground-breaking…

I would be very skeptical on believing anything until we have some word from official sources. Everything that has come out has been from the Trump campaign and I wouldn't trust a single thing they have to say.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by KSyrupo

Some people just don't care about the bigger picture. They just want what benefits them

Some years ago on this forum, I made the argument that voting should be based on the greater good rather than this kind of self-interest. I don't recall a single person agreeing with me, and a number disagreed. One of the opposing points of view was that if you prioritize the greater good, that's the kind of thing that ends up in situations like the Salem Witch Trials.

[Ksyrup]

I have routinely voted against my self-interest. Voting Dem is voting against my self-interest, in fact. I work in a heavily-regulated industry. Having the GOP decide who runs the FTC, CFPB, etc., instead of Elizabeth Warren woudl be much better for my business.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The child tax credit literally expired under Biden when Dems controlled both the House and Senate. Dems haven't touched the upper income tax brackets in forever (they almost torpedoed the infrastructure bill so they could keep a tax break for the rich!). Education has not seen much spending difference between parties (heck, some of the biggest jumps we've seen is during Republican controlled Houses). And even Obama was proposing cuts to the corporate tax rate before Trump actually did it.

Democrats and Republicans got together to undo SEC regulations on crypto just a couple months ago. The Democrats just launched "Crypto for Harris" the other day.

There's a handful of economic issues they differ on. But they're incredibly minor and it's why we see almost no change in our economic policy no matter who is President. Maybe Ksyrup's friend is heavily invested in who holds seats on the NLRB, but my guess is they're just a Trump supporter who is afraid to admit it.

An expanded CTC was literally just killed by the GOP in the Senate.

The GOP wants to eliminate the Dept of Ed

The GOP wants to invest billions in a Bitcoin reserve

etc.

Again, this isn't to argue for or against, but it's just inaccurate to say they have the same policies.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

An expanded CTC was literally just killed by the GOP in the Senate.

The GOP wants to eliminate the Dept of Ed

The GOP wants to invest billions in a Bitcoin reserve

etc.

Again, this isn't to argue for or against, but it's just inaccurate to say they have the same policies.

Talk is cheap. Actions are all that matter. Both parties have carried out nearly identical economic policies over the past few decades when in power. I just don't buy that someone is choosing Trump because of an NLRB seat or some Bitcoin investments that will never happen. Those people just like Trump and are scared to admit it to their friends.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

That too. A fair number of people care little about anything other than "how will this election impact ME?" It's "mind your own business" taken to the extreme. Although I wouldn't call people in that mindset "nose-holders." I'd think they just don't give a crap what a candidate says or does as long as they get their tax cuts, and therefore they just view Trump as a useful idiot more than anything else. (I do have one buddy from high school who stays in touch with me who fits squarely into this category. 7-figure income. Routinely golfs with John Smoltz and Chipper Jones. Views Trump as a simpleton, but will vote straight R ticket as long as his business and personal bottom lines benefit. He's Jewish by heritage, but doesn't even care one way or the other about the situation over there. He does seem to love his children, at least...)

So if I don't vote my interests then who will? Will you vote for my interests over yours?

[Ksyrup]

It's not voting individual interests, it's voting for politicians who will likely support policies that may benefit others either at your expense or that won't benefit you at all.

I'm voting for Harris. If she supports policies that benefit lower economic classes, or that might result in my taxes increasing, I'm fine with that (as a generic issue, not knowing what the specifics of any such policy are). I'm not looking for someone to counteract my vote by voting for my interests. This isn't some quid pro quo situation.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's not voting individual interests, it's voting for politicians who will likely support policies that may benefit others either at your expense or that won't benefit you at all.

I'm voting for Harris. If she supports policies that benefit lower economic classes, or that might result in my taxes increasing, I'm fine with that (as a generic issue, not knowing what the specifics of any such policy are). I'm not looking for someone to counteract my vote by voting for my interests. This isn't some quid pro quo situation.

It is absolutely in my interest to not vote for someone who will raise taxes for a cause that I don't benefit from.

[Ksyrup]

I guess I don't understand your point. That goes without saying. I'm saying some people - like me, now - are choosing to vote against our self-interests because we see the bigger picture as way more important at this particular moment. I don't expect you or anyone else to "take up the slack" by making sure my interests are represented.

You vote how you want. If that's to help yourself, fine. I see more benefit in voting for people whose policies either don't benefit me (at least not personally, although I feel I will benefit from an authoritarian not being in office) or may actually harm me financially. I don't know whether that will in fact be the case since I fall short of the baseline household income that seems to separate rich from not rich, but there's no question that the business I am a part-owner of would benefit from the GOP being in charge of economic and market conduct policies. I'm choosing... the US, I guess?

[JPhillips]

No taxes on tips is still unworkable and stupid.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

No taxes on tips is still unworkable and stupid.

I like it as a political slogan though. You’re trying to get some votes from low information 20-year-olds working service jobs.

Yeah, as a policy, it is unworkable. But it’s just trying to get some votes.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I guess I don't understand your point. That goes without saying. I'm saying some people - like me, now - are choosing to vote against our self-interests because we see the bigger picture as way more important at this particular moment. I don't expect you or anyone else to "take up the slack" by making sure my interests are represented.

You vote how you want. If that's to help yourself, fine. I see more benefit in voting for people whose policies either don't benefit me (at least not personally, although I feel I will benefit from an authoritarian not being in office) or may actually harm me financially. I don't know whether that will in fact be the case since I fall short of the baseline household income that seems to separate rich from not rich, but there's no question that the business I am a part-owner of would benefit from the GOP being in charge of economic and market conduct policies. I'm choosing... the US, I guess?

This is where I am at. We are in the 37% tax bracket and if Trump wins we could go down to 30% which would be a lot of money but we would rather preserve democracy and let some poor kids have free lunch over some extra money in our bank accounts.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is where I am at. We are in the 37% tax bracket and if Trump wins we could go down to 30% which would be a lot of money but we would rather preserve democracy and let some poor kids have free lunch over some extra money in our bank accounts.

Exactly. I still care that such programs are administered smartly, but I am choosing to vote for a party attempting to help the less fortunate rather than the party that puts callousness ahead of compassion.

There was talk earlier in the thread about what happened to compassionate conservatism? That's for RINOs! Today's GOP not only is against such things, but actively speak out against in cruel terms - governors who refused to opt in to the federal free lunch program saying they don't believe in welfare, or using the ridiculous argument that there's already too much childhood obesity, or local GOP reps saying things like "hunger is relative." They aren't even primarily falling back on the typical arguments - they're just going straight to callousness - all while supporting other forms of welfare for corporations at the expense of the same people they deny benefits to. I've heard enough of that BS.

[NobodyHere]

Hercules Star Kevin Sorbo Tells Kamala Harris to Say the N-word If She Really Is Black

There's something weird going on with these folks.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Hercules Star Kevin Sorbo Tells Kamala Harris to Say the N-word If She Really Is Black

There's something weird going on with these folks.

Lucy Lawless roasted him.

[JPhillips]

Grandpa needs to go to the home soon.

Aggressively not smart. pic.twitter.com/4xDlNSkmBm

— Dan McClellan (@maklelan) August 11, 2024

[thesloppy]

I wonder if someone's feeding him these ideas directly, he just extrapolating on some half-sentence he heard Barron read on twitter, or if he's just pulling it out of his ass entirely.

[thesloppy]

JD Vance in drag while attending Yale law school (per some random guy on Twitter fwiw)

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I wonder if someone's feeding him these ideas directly, he just extrapolating on some half-sentence he heard Barron read on twitter, or if he's just pulling it out of his ass entirely.

He is always online. He sees something someone posts and jumps on it.

[Ghost Econ]

I can honestly say that as a straight, liberal white male, I've never dressed as a woman and the thought has never really been entertained in my head. It's like they hate themselves so much for having had those thoughts at some point that they have to punish the people who enjoy it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I wonder if someone's feeding him these ideas directly, he just extrapolating on some half-sentence he heard Barron read on twitter, or if he's just pulling it out of his ass entirely.

This has been a tik tok conspiracy being pushed and, of course, thoroughly debunked the past few days. It probably originated on twitter.

Someone is definitely feeding him this nonsense.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

I can honestly say that as a straight, liberal white male, I've never dressed as a woman and the thought has never really been entertained in my head. It's like they hate themselves so much for having had those thoughts at some point that they have to punish the people who enjoy it.

Ummmm...I have. A couple times. Once for Halloween and once for a play. Don't think it is that big a deal unless...

[thesloppy]

That wig is so bad that I think this is disqualified from being 'actual' drag, but the dude is sinking and if they get to throw shit against the wall why can't we?

[stevew]

Sup with the secret service having IBS. Broke into some salon to use the toilets.

[GrantDawg]

I tell you, the Secret Sevive needs a complete clean out. Whoever broke into that door must be arrested.

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[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Hercules Star Kevin Sorbo Tells Kamala Harris to Say the N-word If She Really Is Black

There's something weird going on with these folks.

First Scott Baio now sorbo. These F-List actors...

[GrantDawg]

"This has been a tik tok conspiracy being pushed and, of course, thoroughly debunked the past few days. It probably originated on twitter."

I'm telling you the people that believe this stuff. Numerous people posting their own video of that day to prove the crowd was there and still people immediately posting "it's fake. How much are they paying you?" The level of mass insanity.....

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[CrimsonFox]

Couple charges wedding guests $333 each in effort to save money

I think Trump should try something like this. And then he can photoshop in all the people he wants and charge himself! Perfect scam!

[Ksyrup]

Watching the closing ceremonies in Paris and the thought occurred to me - can you imagine Trump giving an opening/closing speech in LA in 2028 and going off-script?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

I can honestly say that as a straight, liberal white male, I've never dressed as a woman and the thought has never really been entertained in my head. It's like they hate themselves so much for having had those thoughts at some point that they have to punish the people who enjoy it.

You guys did not have "opposite" day during homecoming week in high school?

Boys dressed like girls(makeup and all), girls dressed like boys (including every girl wearing eye black for some reason), kids could wear their regular clothes inside out, or the kid who wore shorts and t-shirts every day, it would be the one day you would put on some suit. The hairy chested offensive guard showing a bunch of cleavage and lots of toilet paper in his cheap dress was a homecoming staple in the late 80s in South Florida.

Ahh the good ol' days.

[Ghost Econ]

Nope, but I lived in a small town in South Carolina.

[GrantDawg]

Well, I guess Trump is coming back to Twitter. He is going to make a live speech tonight.

[Ksyrup]

Definitely panicking.

Although I still think the election is his to lose. I saw somewhere that Clinton and Biden were ahead in the polls 5% and 8% a few months before their elections and we saw how those turned out - an L and a razor-thin W. Harris might be up 2 or 3%, which is great considering where Biden was, but that trajectory needs to continue. Still, it's hard to imagine nothing but good news and error-free campaigning for another 3 months. At some point this is going to settle in.

Trump, as always, is the wild card, as maybe he can do damage to himself even as Harris's momentum slows. Whatever it takes to grow the margins.

[albionmoonlight]

I agree that things are not as bad for Trump as even he seems to think they are.

Someone pointed out that if he flips Pennsylvania and Georgia and everything else stays the same from 2020, he gets 270 on the nose.

He can basically run a two-state strategy.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I agree that things are not as bad for Trump as even he seems to think they are.

Someone pointed out that if he flips Pennsylvania and Georgia and everything else stays the same from 2020, he gets 270 on the nose.

He can basically run a two-state strategy.

Except he is doing one rally a week at best and has spent his time out west in favorable states. I don't think he can stand the idea of doing a rally and having a smaller crown than Kamala.

I am also seeing a lot of X, so take it for what it is worth, that he can't do rallys in a lot of places because he still owes them money.