Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Throw path12 from the rock.

And I've sent in my choice for the sex slaves to go to. It wasn't me, per CR's request. I didn't send them to Narc, though I'm growing increasingly tired of his questions of me.

I've been nothing more than honest about everything in this game. You would be hard pressed to find someone more loyal to the Senate, to the Republic, than myself.

And I fully expect an apology from you Narc, when the game is over.

Totally agree. I used Narc to investigate AE and he came up clean. There's no controverting that statement.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Damnit. KWhit is not the person that I want to take out of the Anxiety/CW/AE conspiracy circle...but it seems we have been left few other options. At this point in the game we have to figure out where we STAND, regardless of who we have to kill -- in the past I've advocated killing seers just to figure out their allegiance, in order to confirm their information, and this is more or less the same case. However, there are significant costs...we've been able to trust him all game, he's been useful most of the game, and if we kill him and he's GOOD we're moving the other bad wealthy people up the ladder, bringing them that much closer to screwing us.

Quietly, though...what proof do we have that Narcizo is on our side...or CR, for that matter, although I find it hard to believe that a wolf would help us out so much...so I'm much more suspicious of Narcizo out of that pairing...leaving me with a difficult choice as to what to do with my action today.

However, for the lynch...path, for better or worse, doesn't get at the core of our problems. KWhit does.

VOTE EXECUTE KWHIT

When did AE get added to my circle? You guys realize that you are so fixated on your tunnel vision that you are ignoring othe players. Besides, how is AE in the CW/Me/KWhit circle if he sent the sword killer to take out CW?

[Tyrith]

The circle I defined isn't you all being in a conspiracy together; it's about the linkages created so far, irrespective of allegiance. And since you all control the money, and the money controls the EVIDENCE, we're kind of forced to focus on you all because the case for most people below you on the chart more or less cannot be made with any conviction at this point.

[st.cronin]

Misterus Wednesdayus is replacing Chubbus Chubbus.

[Tyrith]

LSG's role this game now has some startling similarities to a public toilet.

[Abe Sargent]

If I die can I take the role over?

[Tyrith]

I hope not, but I'd send flowers to your funeral...assuming you turn up good, that is

[Mr. Wednesday]

OK, can I get a quick recap of notable events to date? I'll try to do some catching up this afternoon, but there's no way I'm plowing through 100 pages of material.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

In light of events I'd like Barkeep and Path to explain their votes yesterday a bit more closely than they have done.

I can go back and find the post if you want, but my vote on DT yesterday was placed in the hope of NOT getting a majority. I stated clearly that I thought both DT and Anxiety were good (though I'm now having my doubts about Anxiety given the result yesterday) and that my vote was going on the one with the fewest votes.

As for the general feeling that I've been UTR this game, guilty as charged. I've also mentioned earlier that I should have been keeping a notepad with a game this big and complex -- it took me almost a week to really get the hang of what was even going on. I think I have been more active the past couple of days, and I don't think I've said anything that hasn't been in the interest of smoking out the Tarqs amongst us.

If anyone has questions that I can answer to try and address their concerns, then let them speak and I will respond. I really am confused as to why I was arrested in the first place, but that's a whole other issue. I'm sure Kayus is thinking the same thing there.

[path12]

This won't be a shock:

VOTE TOSS KAYUS WHITUS

Self-preservation and all.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by path12

I can go back and find the post if you want, but my vote on DT yesterday was placed in the hope of NOT getting a majority. I stated clearly that I thought both DT and Anxiety were good (though I'm now having my doubts about Anxiety given the result yesterday) and that my vote was going on the one with the fewest votes.

For what it is worth, I believe a prior primer indicated that we do not need a majority to lynch. At least it appears that way when two candidates are presented. I'm not sure if that still holds true or not.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

For what it is worth, I believe a prior primer indicated that we do not need a majority to lynch. At least it appears that way when two candidates are presented. I'm not sure if that still holds true or not.

You're likely right -- most of my interpretation of the rules thus far has been mistaken. Regardless, my intention with my vote was to not toss someone in a case where I thought both were good.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Duly noted, and who would I use them on then?

Someone who's gonna do something bad.

BTW, there was a miscommunication. I apparently have the services of Narcizo, not ardent. So send the slaves to yourself anyway if you want.

I don't know who has you now.

[Tyrith]

Votes that aren't cast are counted as abstained votes, and don't count towards votes casts. We just need a majority of the actual cast votes, meaning maybe not tie? Otherwise we get it every time.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The case is that Path is typically more useful than he's been this game. This game he's practically been UTR, especially by his standards. But at this point that isn't too much.

Point about path that is the big thing for me. He was one of the original five I pointed out as likely players to hire the sword killer on Day One (which killed Swaggs). And he was one of the top tier wealth players who could have taken Balbus Senna away from Ironhead.

He was the only player in position to do both.

So that's the primary evidence I know of against path, along with UTR theories and what not.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

OK, can I get a quick recap of notable events to date? I'll try to do some catching up this afternoon, but there's no way I'm plowing through 100 pages of material.

You're just not committed.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Point about path that is the big thing for me. He was one of the original five I pointed out as likely players to hire the sword killer on Day One (which killed Swaggs). And he was one of the top tier wealth players who could have taken Balbus Senna away from Ironhead.

He was the only player in position to do both.

So that's the primary evidence I know of against path, along with UTR theories and what not.

Well, at least you've got a theory. I'd point out that on day 1 nobody knew what the services did or how they worked, so it would have been quite a cunning play on my part to figure that bid would get me a free kill and then go for it, especially with only moderate wealth early in the game.

For the record, I believe (not positive) that I bid on the priest/philosopher role on day 1.

[Chief Rum]

So no one has come out to say if they have ardent? I half expected someone to come out and say, "Hey, Chief, how can you have ardent when I do!"

Now my fear is that KWhit has ardent. We could have a repeat of the situation yesterday.

Narcizo, I have control of your bidding tonight, and of course, I won't interfere. But now without control of ardent, a key part of your plan flies out the window. I am trying to think of ways to use you that would enhance your plan.

Passacaglia, I will send in an arrest order around 1 p.m. I would wait until then before you send in yours. Since I have to send mine in early, you may want to wait to see what develops as get closer to deadline. But don't wait too long--I want to be sure we have two candidates tomorrow.

I am still open to arrest targets. I am leaning toward follwoing Narcizo's plan at the moment.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, at least you've got a theory. I'd point out that on day 1 nobody knew what the services did or how they worked, so it would have been quite a cunning play on my part to figure that bid would get me a free kill and then go for it, especially with only moderate wealth early in the game.

For the record, I believe (not positive) that I bid on the priest/philosopher role on day 1.

Not saying that my theory is correct or that you're wrong, but realize that there was a Tarq-led sword kill on Day Two, meaning someone got him as a Tarq and used him. So while it might be the cunning play, fact is, it happened. And I don't know that it couldn't have been you as much as anyone else.

Also, the Tarqs can communicate via PM, so they might have been more able to apply some group think to the roles and deduce what some of them might do. From the start, I certainly thought the warlord would be a role that would use weapons in some way (although I thought it might be defense/bodyguard), so I'm certain others would have thoughts along the same lines.

As for moderate wealth, that's the point of you being on the list. You and four others were about at the same wealth level, and everyone above you pretty much checked out from what we could tell, meaning it had to be one of you five who won the service.

Anyway, not trying to point the finger more at you, just explaining the reasoning there and how I'm not sure your objections to it are valid in light of that. BTW, did you say at the time that you bid on the philosopher?

[Tyrith]

CR, I forget, what service do you have?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

CR, I forget, what service do you have?

Narcizo, the lawyer. There was an error, and I was at first told I had ardent. That has since been clarified. We don't know who has ardent.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Narcizo, the lawyer. There was an error, and I was at first told I had ardent. That has since been clarified. We don't know who has ardent.

Then you can't clear Narcizo, can you? Or yourself...damn. This seems a little too cute, but I'll still trust it for now.

[path12]

Originally Posted by path12 [B

post #162[/b];1437380]I've placed a bid with the priest.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

BTW, did you say at the time that you bid on the philosopher?

I guess it was the priest, but yes, I did say who I bid on.

[path12]

Broke the tag on that, but it was post #162.

[Passacaglia]

If I didn't mention it, I won Balbus Senna.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from Autumn on arrest possibilities.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

BTW, there was a miscommunication. I apparently have the services of Narcizo, not ardent. So send the slaves to yourself anyway if you want.

BTW, how did you get Narcizo? I thought I had more money than you.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Narcizo, the lawyer. There was an error, and I was at first told I had ardent. That has since been clarified. We don't know who has ardent.

Crap! After all that thought I put into it as well.

I don't have a helluva lot of time. Just do what you think is right. I trust you to come up with something. I think KWhit is the more guilty but if you want to look at path I suggest you scan and rearrest whichever one looks like they're going to win. With Ardent running loose there's no real way of knowing who's going to get an unwelcome boost to their votes so it might be a tie. In which case definitely scan and rearrest KWhit. And I still think Passa should arrest Ardent.

And, of course, whoever controls Ardent should scan me.

That's the best I can come up with. I'm sure you can think of a better solution. Gotta go. Hope to see you tomorrow.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Anyway, not trying to point the finger more at you, just explaining the reasoning there and how I'm not sure your objections to it are valid in light of that. BTW, did you say at the time that you bid on the philosopher?

For what it's worth, my notes have Pathus losing the priest on day 1 bidding, so I assume he did tell us that back then.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Point about path that is the big thing for me. He was one of the original five I pointed out as likely players to hire the sword killer on Day One (which killed Swaggs). And he was one of the top tier wealth players who could have taken Balbus Senna away from Ironhead.

He was the only player in position to do both.

So that's the primary evidence I know of against path, along with UTR theories and what not.

Ah, well that makes sense, I had forgotten about that. I think that's why I had him on my suspect list at some point. Seems a good avenue to investigate, although the number of bidding irregularities in this game is growing staggering. I dont' know if we're just not analyzing it correctly, or if the traitors are able to disrupt the bids somehow.

[Autumn]

My arrest suggestions would be Anxietus and Ardentus. Ardentus has been under some suspicion for the whole game. It doesn't seem the Tarq's are going to kill him, so we have to either trust him the entire game or be willing to arrest a lawyer.

Anxietus is still my main suspect, he's slipped out once. If we wait until tomorrow to consider rearresting him, that's that much longer he's out bidding.

Other than them I don't know who else I would consider. The rest of y'all are either semi-trusted by me or neutral. That's why I would pick those two. Anxietus for sure, and who else other than Ardentus?

[Autumn]

So we still don't know who has Ardentus, or the swordsman, or one of the bodyguards. And we still haven't heard from a lot of people. I guess hopefully they'll be on in the evening. I think the plan of agreeing to bids would have worked better except so many people don't come in and speak until the last minute and then we don't have time to work anything out. I don't know whether to be suspicious of those who are not around/quiet or just figure that's life.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

BTW, how did you get Narcizo? I thought I had more money than you.

I thought you had more money than me, too. I was pretty surprised to get a lawyer where I was. I thought I was submitting a backup bid.

As noted, it's another one of those bidding iiregularities we're seeing. Not sure what to amke of that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

If I didn't mention it, I won Balbus Senna.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from Autumn on arrest possibilities.

Sned Balbus to someone you have a lot of doubts on. Always possible a conversion works both ways (although unlikely, and that's even essuming Balbus has conversion abilities).

[Chief Rum]

Passacaglia, I am going to arrest from the following list of players tonight.

Anxiety
MrWednesday
Tyrith

So pick someone outside of that group.

VOTE EXECUTE KWHIT

We're at the point where we have to throw everyone off of the rock to determine who is who and what is real. The case against KWhit isn't that strong, but it's not weak either. There seems to be contrarian evidence pointing both ways. And you could say that about a lot of high end people, like Anxiety and ardent, as well.

We don't learn anything otherwise.

I'm not saying right now what I have decided to do with Narcizo the lawyer, but I have decided.

I will be leaving for the day and won't be back until after the deadline. Hopefully, we get some people to fess up to having the sword killer or ardent. And if ardent's customer is out there, please scan Narcizo. Thanks.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Autumn

My arrest suggestions would be Anxietus and Ardentus. Ardentus has been under some suspicion for the whole game. It doesn't seem the Tarq's are going to kill him, so we have to either trust him the entire game or be willing to arrest a lawyer.

Anxietus is still my main suspect, he's slipped out once. If we wait until tomorrow to consider rearresting him, that's that much longer he's out bidding.

Other than them I don't know who else I would consider. The rest of y'all are either semi-trusted by me or neutral. That's why I would pick those two. Anxietus for sure, and who else other than Ardentus?

That would be a bad duo to arrest, I think. I have cleared AE of previous wrongdoing with a scan. Why arrest us both? WHne you ckill me and see I was right all along, then you have wasted a day with AE and not allow him to do stuff, since he is wealthy. Beside,s you know that you are going to arres tme, and then vote me off, it's fated. Why drag along AE? In fact, why even bother arresting anybody else at all?

[Mr. Wednesday]

As far as I know, and I should probably confirm this, I do not have any services.

I don't personally feel that arresting me would be fruitful, but unfortunately I don't have a personal history to fall back on. I don't even know, at this point, what mistakes my predecessors have made.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

OK, can I get a quick recap of notable events to date? I'll try to do some catching up this afternoon, but there's no way I'm plowing through 100 pages of material.

Oooh boy, that's a tall order. I'd say things are a muddle. We've yet to have a confirmed traitor, though I suspect we killed one of them. So we don't have much of an idea on numbers, though we've executed a number of presumably loyal Senators (the lawyers receive a guilt/innocence reveal after execution) and have had a number of Senators poisoned (either a traitor power, or a traitor use of a service). Three Senators have admitted to hiring the swordsman and having him kill Senators, ones they felt were disloyal but we don't get any reveal on those kills.

You'll have to read current events to get an idea of current suspects. Today our consuls need to arrest two more suspects, and we need to vote on whether to execute Pathus Twelveus or Kayus Whitus. You should also bid on one of the services, although your wealth probably won't get you far.

Your character has a very low history, so I imagine you'll be neutral on most people's radar.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, that should be, "I don't have a personal history to fall back on in arguing for my innocence."

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

That would be a bad duo to arrest, I think. I have cleared AE of previous wrongdoing with a scan. Why arrest us both? WHne you ckill me and see I was right all along, then you have wasted a day with AE and not allow him to do stuff, since he is wealthy. Beside,s you know that you are going to arres tme, and then vote me off, it's fated. Why drag along AE? In fact, why even bother arresting anybody else at all?

Well your argument suggests its answer. If you were both bad, better to have you both in jail rather than outbidding people for services. Obviously, if either one of you is good it would be better not to arrest you but I don't have that ability.

And my other reasoning is that while I hold you as my highest suspect, it seems other people suspect Ardentus more. Tyrith at least was disappointed I arrested Kayus instead of Ardentus. This way we're covering both bases. I would hope, other evidence to the contrary, that we would vote to execute you (again) but I don't know that the group agrees.

And frankly, I don't know who my third choice would be.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

As far as I know, and I should probably confirm this, I do not have any services.

I don't personally feel that arresting me would be fruitful, but unfortunately I don't have a personal history to fall back on. I don't even know, at this point, what mistakes my predecessors have made.

Your predecessors I believe don't have 5 posts between the two of them, so you've got pretty much a clean slate right now.

[Abe Sargent]

How about this, then Autumn. I know AE is cleared. I don't want the tarqs to win. Do you? Either you are a tarq and you want to be seen as trying to win, or you are a republican and you want to win.


Arrest just me. Then there can be no lawyer tricks. I'll buy the sword killer guy, so no one gets killed by him. Everybody kiils, me, sees that I am smooth as butter of a bald monkey, and then uses that info. Doesn;t that seem fair?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

How about this, then Autumn. I know AE is cleared. I don't want the tarqs to win. Do you? Either you are a tarq and you want to be seen as trying to win, or you are a republican and you want to win.


Arrest just me. Then there can be no lawyer tricks. I'll buy the sword killer guy, so no one gets killed by him. Everybody kiils, me, sees that I am smooth as butter of a bald monkey, and then uses that info. Doesn;t that seem fair?

There's certainly a logic to this. Could possibly be a stall for time, and we might need to sex slave AE...but there's logic to it.

[Tyrith]

Expanding on that:

It seems like there is at least a chance CR sent in an order for someone other than Anxiety. If that's the case we'd have an actual run off. However, doesn't seem like it.

However, the mere offer of this doesn't serve as any kind of proof for clearing him...we either have to counter the argument, come up with something better, or call his offer, I feel.

However, KWhit coming up good doesn't in and of itself clear Anxiety which in turn doesn't clear AE...but Anxiety is the next logical step in that chain.

[Grammaticus]

What is the talley on the votes?

[Grammaticus]

Anxiety, how do you know AE is cleared? Are you relying on the lawyer investigation of no evidence of wrong doing?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Dola, that should be, "I don't have a personal history to fall back on in arguing for my innocence."

Good luck trying to catch up on all the freaking posts.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Arrest just me. Then there can be no lawyer tricks. I'll buy the sword killer guy, so no one gets killed by him. Everybody kiils, me, sees that I am smooth as butter of a bald monkey, and then uses that info. Doesn;t that seem fair?

You can't bid if you're arrested, right? I know I can't today.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Theory #2 is that only one Tarq had the ability to poison.

That's certainly reasonable from the meta-gaming point of view, although I can see some meta-issues.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

How about this, then Autumn. I know AE is cleared. I don't want the tarqs to win. Do you? Either you are a tarq and you want to be seen as trying to win, or you are a republican and you want to win.

Arrest just me. Then there can be no lawyer tricks. I'll buy the sword killer guy, so no one gets killed by him. Everybody kiils, me, sees that I am smooth as butter of a bald monkey, and then uses that info. Doesn't that seem fair?

1. I don't see how this avoids lawyer tricks. If you were successfully defended you might get off again.

2. If both you and AE were bad, or if there are some other bad guy bidding tricks up your sleeve AE or someone else could get the sword killer anyway.

If everybody in the Senate is agreed that they're going to execute you tomorrow, then perhaps this makes sense. But seems rather a large gamble to take to only arrest one person. We made that mistake many times in the beginning of this game. We could learn something between now and tomorrow night that either clears you or condemns AE. If so, our hands would be tied and our time wasted.

It's a noble offer, but it seems to have a lot of loopholes to it, and the only advantage I see being that Ardentus is free to bid tomorrow. What do others think? I don't think we've heard who Passus Calligus is planning on arresting anyway.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Good luck trying to catch up on all the freaking posts.

I went from page 90, which gives me the end of yesterday plus all of today. It's going to have to do...