Game of Thrones on HBO

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

That was so egregiously bad.

I'm dense, so I thought it was just pretty quick, and then a friend pointed out that pretty much every stretch of territory/sea between those two locations also belongs to Ramsey. Not a problem for Littlefinger's Tardis.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Considering the heavy significance of the actress playing Cersei in Arya's story-line, it seems like Cersei is most likely going to end up as Arya's ultimate target, yes? There seems to be a lot of twisting going on to the themes of love & family, and it seemed like we saw Arya slightly struggle with the idea of Cersei as a human after seeing the love for her children presented (albeit in the form of a stage play)...so maybe she doesn't necessarily end up killing Cersei, but it seems like their endings will be particularly intertwined. Is that vibe obvious, or am I inventing it?

Before she went to Braavos, I figured the top of Arya's list was Cersei, Walder Frey, and Melisandre. I thought her feeling sympathy for Cersei was one of two events that stuck out to me during her training days (the other being admitting to herself that she no longer hated the Hound). I'm not sure it's going to have any effect though. Cersei is overdue for having something blow up in her face, and Arya may be beaten to it.

Walder is probably going to die of old age any day now. I think her first, and maybe only, target will be Melisandre. She's already fulfilled her purpose by resurrecting Jon Snow, and there has to be a reason why she specifically said that they'll meet again. Although, the preview picture of Davos standing alone makes me wonder if she's going to be around either.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ryno

I'm not sure it's going to have any effect though. Cersei is overdue for having something blow up in her face, and Arya may be beaten to it.

Yup, there's a lot of folks in line for Cersei's head. Arya should put some pep in her step, if she wants to get in on that.

I also thought that the Clegaine Bowl was being obviously set-up as Zombie Mountain representing Cersei, and Crispy Hound representing the faith (like many others, I imagine)....but they threw a sizable wrench in that plot-line, for the moment at least.

[PilotMan]

Spoiler

Don't forget that Tommen is going to be dead before Cersei is, too. (per the prophecy she was told.)

[thesloppy]

Good point! PM's spoiler is more of a reminder of something we've seen rather than a spoiler, for anybody worried it might be a book-based spoiler.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Spoiler

Don't forget that Tommen is going to be dead before Cersei is, too. (per the prophecy she was told.)

Spoiler

With all the talk about how much she loves her kids, combined with Tommen being under the thumb of the High Sparrow, I half expect Cersei to be the one to kill Tommen.

[thesloppy]

Is everybody taking the High Sparrow's agenda at face value? Obviously he wants to expand the faith's power and influence as far as possible, but is it truly for faith's sake, or is there going to be some (or someone's) specific political agenda revealed later? With the themes of family and bloodlines, and nobility and such it almost seems like the idea of the faith simply as an autonomous stymie for the nobility is deceptively simple (though I suppose relatively historic/realistic), and that there may be a more terrestrial force driving their motivation.

[Groundhog]

I don't take it at face value, considering the threat he gave after talking about how he wasn't afraid to die a few episodes ago. Also the very last scene of an earlier episode this season where he talked about taking power over Kings Landing. He's every bit as power hungry as most of the other big players.

[thesloppy]

Yeah. I think it's definitely been established that he has a lust for power that is quite base, but I dunno that he'd even deny that....he'd just put some spin on it "Everybody needs the faith, my son. It is my duty to spread it as far as I can." I'm more wondering if there's gonna be a reveal that he's an agent of a specific house & or lord.

[thesloppy]

Maybe he's got that blacksmith kid of Richard's that disappeared into the ether 4 seasons ago stashed away somewhere.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Maybe he's got that blacksmith kid of Richard's that disappeared into the ether 4 seasons ago stashed away somewhere.

I doubt he would get a better king than Tommen who is under his thumb already.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Spoiler

With all the talk about how much she loves her kids, combined with Tommen being under the thumb of the High Sparrow, I half expect Cersei to be the one to kill Tommen.

Spoiler

That would be an interesting twist. I wonder what Jaime would do if he came back to find that had happened.

[Ryno]

Who would be king if Tommen dies? I've read a few discussions about it, but they all seem to end up with different conclusions. As a maybe related question: is the Tyrell army still in King's Landing?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I doubt he would get a better king than Tommen who is under his thumb already.

That's a fair point. Anybody who gets Tommen alone with a puppy or kitten rules the world! Richard's kid has less baggage? At least of the living variety.

The High Sparrow's origin speech didn't seem to imply that he was noble born, but it did seem to imply that he entered noble circles, right? Maybe he has a house/title of his own that he's hidden, and wants to get in position to take the throne as both king & pope? Maybe he has a wife/lover with connection to another house? If we're accepting that his motives aren't actually pure and that his desire has always been for power, then why would he voluntarily leave a position he'd worked to achieve in some court, in order to start over at the bottom in the church? Something in there's surely bullshit (or just poorly written).

Honestly, I think he's probably just a relatively shallow character who's using the church to get close to the throne, but it's fun to spitball.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Ryno

Who would be king if Tommen dies? I've read a few discussions about it, but they all seem to end up with different conclusions. As a maybe related question: is the Tyrell army still in King's Landing?

If all of Robert Baratheon's "children" are dead, then it would go to his brothers. But they are also dead without any heirs...so....off to the family tree to have a look.

EDIT: Robert's father was Steffon Baratheon, but it looks like he might have been an only child. Can't find anything about him having any brothers.

EDIT #2: A redditor did the leg work it seems already

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthron...n_dies/cvz5qwp

And now the Jaime Lannister is not a member of the King's Guard...it would seem that Jaime Lannister is actually next in line as of right now.

[sabotai]

dola,

But realistically, if Tommen does die, "big army diplomacy" will determine who the next king is.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by sabotai

If all of Robert Baratheon's "children" are dead, then it would go to his brothers. But they are also dead without any heirs...so....off to the family tree to have a look.

EDIT: Robert's father was Steffon Baratheon, but it looks like he might have been an only child. Can't find anything about him having any brothers.

Heh, just looked. From what I can tell, that's it. The direct Baratheon line is (technically already) kaput. Ironically, the closest (legitimate) relative through the male line would PROBABLY be Daenerys, as Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen, and Dany's Great Aunt, if I'm reading this correctly.

edit: Just saw your edit, sab. Go Jaime?

And yes. Either way, the correct answer is, "Whoever Wins The Inevitable Fight(s)"

[thesloppy]

Seems odd that being part of the King's Guard is a legal niggle, but shooting the previous heir on the shitter is acceptable. Nevermind, they covered that down further.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Heh, just looked. From what I can tell, that's it. The direct Baratheon line is (technically already) kaput. Ironically, the closest (legitimate) relative through the male line would PROBABLY be Daenerys, as Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen, and Dany's Great Aunt, if I'm reading this correctly.

Possibly, but I think Dany being next in line depends on if House Targaryen was stripped of their claims following Robert's Rebellion or not.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by sabotai

dola,

But realistically, if Tommen does die, "big army diplomacy" will determine who the next king is.

That's what I've been thinking too. I wasn't at all clear, but that was the reason for my follow-up question about the Tyrells. But, now that I think about it, there's no way for anyone else to know unless I just completely missed something.

At any rate, thanks for the legwork. I started down that road until I found a book spoiler that contained a character not introduced in the show

Spoiler

A6 aka YG

.

[thesloppy]

Have ANY of the Tyrells (and/or their army) left King's Landing yet? If the Tyrells perceive Cersei becoming a threat to Tommen, that could conceivably switch them toward the High Sparrow, since Tommen is their only connection to the throne, right?

[thesloppy]

I know Olenna said she was leaving, but I dunno if that's like a month-long process, or if she leaves with the army, or if she has a Tardis too and we're supposed to think she's already left. Mace is still stuck in King's Landing as part of the council, yes?

[flere-imsaho]

Oooooo, oooo, oooo:

Spoiler

Sandor gets his neck slit and it's he that's resurrected instead of Beric.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by sabotai

EDIT #2: A redditor did the leg work it seems already

ProfessorBamBam comments on [S5] What happens if Tommen dies?

And now the Jaime Lannister is not a member of the King's Guard...it would seem that Jaime Lannister is actually next in line as of right now.

Though as pointed out further down, the Lannister tree the redditor is referring to isn't canon. And the first link doesn't exist anymore at A Wiki of Ice and Fire. The House Baratheon tree only goes to Ormand Baratheon, who married Rhaelle Targaryen, daughter of Aegon V:

House Baratheon - A Wiki of Ice and Fire

So next in line after Tommen is something we don't know. Regardless it'd be whoever wins in battle.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Is everybody taking the High Sparrow's agenda at face value? Obviously he wants to expand the faith's power and influence as far as possible, but is it truly for faith's sake, or is there going to be some (or someone's) specific political agenda revealed later? With the themes of family and bloodlines, and nobility and such it almost seems like the idea of the faith simply as an autonomous stymie for the nobility is deceptively simple (though I suppose relatively historic/realistic), and that there may be a more terrestrial force driving their motivation.

Not sure this deserves spoiler tags because it's pure speculation but read on if you like speculation....or don't if you prefer not. Just saying for anybody that likes speculating but doesn't want to read a real spoiler.

Spoiler

Personally I find the Howland Reed theory to be solid. And that he's actually exacting revenge for the Starks.

But there's also another theory out there (not necessarily conflicting) regarding Tommen's secret he told to Cersei that he promised the High Sparrow he wouldn't tell anyone about. The theory goes that the HS informed Tommen about the Tyrells involvement in Joffreys death. And that Cersei's plan was to lure the Tyrell army into King's Landing, let a battle ensue between them and the Seven, and then have the Lannister army finish both of them off (including Maergary). Tommen may not necessarily be aware of Cersei's plans fully, and may be as duped by the HS as he appears. So if that goes down....perhaps there would be some fallout between Cersei and Tommen, and even possibly his death, as Pilotman suggested and rightly points out Cersei's predicted fate ending after her children.

Here's the Tommen theory posted which includes a bit more speculation....
[EVERYTHING] My theory about what the High Sparrow told Tommen and what it means for the future of King's Landing. : gameofthrones

[ISiddiqui]

You know, it'd be the greatest twist of all time if it turned out that Tommen was actually the one scheming his own plan with the High Sparrow - in that Tommen suggested it for a purpose of his own. And that this whole feckless noncommittal part was just a ruse he was putting on.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You know, it'd be the greatest twist of all time if it turned out that Tommen was actually the one scheming his own plan with the High Sparrow - in that Tommen suggested it for a purpose of his own. And that this whole feckless noncommittal part was just a ruse he was putting on.

The idea is cool, but that would be pretty bad TV and storytelling at this point IMO. The show has laid no groundwork for Tommen to be even remotely capable of that. They don't have to show us what's happening, but they have to give us some stuff to at least make it a believable thing for the Character to do. Maybe if this carries on well into next season and they start slowly dropping some small hints that Tommen isn't a pawn here helping other people out in their schemes... maybe.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Radii

The idea is cool, but that would be pretty bad TV and storytelling at this point IMO. The show has laid no groundwork for Tommen to be even remotely capable of that. They don't have to show us what's happening, but they have to give us some stuff to at least make it a believable thing for the Character to do. Maybe if this carries on well into next season and they start slowly dropping some small hints that Tommen isn't a pawn here helping other people out in their schemes... maybe.

To be fair, we haven't seen Tommen with the HS much at all. Or what his conversations with Grand Maester Pycelle or Kevan have been like.

And it isn't like they care about good storytelling these days .

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

To be fair, we haven't seen Tommen with the HS much at all. Or what his conversations with Grand Maester Pycelle or Kevan have been like.

Yeah there's definitely room technically for something to have happened there, but it would be completely out of character for everything we know about Tommen. We need something to bridge the gap between the Tommen we know and the one that could do this.

And it isn't like they care about good storytelling these days .

Hah, true, but they aren't that far removed from lots of very good storytelling, I still have faith that they can end this season strong and get back to good stuff!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Radii

Yeah there's definitely room technically for something to have happened there, but it would be completely out of character for everything we know about Tommen. We need something to bridge the gap between the Tommen we know and the one that could do this.

I think they could drop a few words or phrases in Ep10 that gets the audience thinking and then next season have the hammer drop. But that's probably not going to happen.

I'm just trying to see if the show can have the same 'whoa' twists that turn fantasy cliches on their heads as they did in Seasons 1-4.

[Logan]

Is there any chance this upcoming episode isn't exactly what the title sounds like it will be?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Logan

Is there any chance this upcoming episode isn't exactly what the title sounds like it will be?

The preview seems to suggest that it's pretty straightforward.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Logan

Is there any chance this upcoming episode isn't exactly what the title sounds like it will be?

I don't want to say there's no chance. But there's no chance

The only mysteries I see are whether Littlefinger shows up in the middle of the fight or deus ex machina style. If the latter, will he try to usurp the king of the North title for himself, or back Sansa for queen?

[Coffee Warlord]

Littlefinger shows up at the END of the battle, after the Starks have won, though their army is down to only a handful of men. Baelish arrives with the vastly superior and fresh Vale army. He arrests Sansa for the murder of Joffrey and departs to return her to King's Landing.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Littlefinger shows up at the END of the battle, after the Starks have won, though their army is down to only a handful of men. Baelish arrives with the vastly superior and fresh Vale army. He arrests Sansa for the murder of Joffrey and departs to return her to King's Landing.

Noice.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Littlefinger shows up at the END of the battle, after the Starks have won, though their army is down to only a handful of men. Baelish arrives with the vastly superior and fresh Vale army. He arrests Sansa for the murder of Joffrey and departs to return her to King's Landing.

Wow, that would be a punch in the gut, and totally possible. I mean, I know it's not a fairy tale, but Sansa has to catch a break sometime, right? Please?

[ISiddiqui]

That'd be a fantastic cliffhanger. I like the cut of your jib, CW!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You know, it'd be the greatest twist of all time if it turned out that Tommen was actually the one scheming his own plan with the High Sparrow - in that Tommen suggested it for a purpose of his own. And that this whole feckless noncommittal part was just a ruse he was putting on.

Tommen is Keyser Soze!

[sabotai]

Tommen is Einhorn! Einhorn is Tommen!

[stevew]

I think Sansa agreed to marry Littlefinger in exchange for his help retaking winterfell? Isn't that what the letter she wrote said?

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think Sansa agreed to marry Littlefinger in exchange for his help retaking winterfell? Isn't that what the letter she wrote said?

The letter was blurred most of the time it was shown. It was reasonable to assume it was to be sent to Littlefinger, but the contents weren't specified. After the episode, I grabbed a few inverted screenshots, and was able to CSI-enhance a good portion of it

Spoiler

... Now you have a [chance?] to fulfill your
... knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride hard for Winterfell
... your aid, and I shall see to it that you are [rewarded?]

There was a reddit post that did the same thing, and came up with mostly the same result.

[Coffee Warlord]

WHAT A TWIST. SHOCKING.

[Coffee Warlord]

I liked the Dany battle better than the batter of Winterfell.

[Coffee Warlord]

That said. Damn. They went all out on that.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

WHAT A TWIST. SHOCKING.

Though Jon demonstrated first, Grade A stupidity (WHAT DID SANSA TELL YOU?!), and then Lord of Light style magic (+1000 avoidance of arrows), and then a last second save (so... Ramsey, have we heard of sentries?)

Yeah, Meereen's battle was cooler and more intelligent.

Really fun action war sequences in both though.

[sabotai]

The Battle of Winterfell started lame (cavalry just in time!) and ended predictably (cavalry just in time!), but the middle of it was really awesome. Loved how chaotic the fighting was. It was like the battle scene(s) in Braveheart times a hundred.

[Edward64]

I enjoyed the action, liked the Dany part but didn't really like the Jon story telling.

Zig zag, whats so hard with that?

Jon rushing towards the enemy like that was pretty stupid.

How convenient with the army arriving at just about the right time.

I do wonder if this is how GRRM would have played it out.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

How convenient with the army arriving at just about the right time.

I do wonder if this is how GRRM would have played it out.

Just like Tywin arriving at the Battle of Blackwater? Or how bout Stannis arriving at the Battle of Castle Black? I think this would've been par for the course with Martin.

[Sublime 2]

I was actually feeling anxious when Jon was on stuck the ground, almost claustrophobic.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[GoldenEagle]

My assumption is that Sansa played the game and set a trap for the trap. Littlefingers army wouldn't have been effective unless they were able to flank the Bolton army.