POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Swaggs]

I have tried to get to a place where if the most interesting thing about you is how much you love or hate one political party or candidate, you are not right in the head.

[Swaggs]

Also, interesting dilemma for Trump approaching with Florida voting on this:Just a moment...

His safety answer has been that it is a states' rights issue, but he lives in a state that is going to vote on it this election and cannot dodge it without upsetting one side or the other.

[albionmoonlight]

He already has successfully dodged it.

The media asked him about it. He said that he's going to make an announcement in a couple of weeks.

And, like everything he says is coming in a couple of weeks, it will never come, and no one will follow up with him about it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by akoleander

I usually just lurk here, but...

My 8 year old daughter is a type 1 diabetic and we do a JDRF (they recently changed their name to Breakthrough T1D) walk at Kings Island in Cincinnati every year since she was diagnosed. You come up with your own team name and a lot of people will have shirts made and wear them. One group had shirts on that said "My pancreas is as useful as Joe Biden as President." They all had them on, even the kids (probably under 10) who are already being brainwashed.

Weird.

And they call the dems groomers.

I love kings island. I used to live in Madeira. My wife worked for p and g. I loved p and g weekend at kings island. Post some more. We could use some new blood.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by akoleander

I usually just lurk here, but...

My 8 year old daughter is a type 1 diabetic and we do a JDRF (they recently changed their name to Breakthrough T1D) walk at Kings Island in Cincinnati every year since she was diagnosed. You come up with your own team name and a lot of people will have shirts made and wear them. One group had shirts on that said "My pancreas is as useful as Joe Biden as President." They all had them on, even the kids (probably under 10) who are already being brainwashed.

Weird.

My son is T1 as well, he's 20 now but he's had it since 18 months. I still have a tshirt from a JDRF walk that we did many years ago, although it was just our son making a crazy face. My son just likes to pretend that he doesn't have diabetes, unfortunately his A1C also reflects this.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Agreed. I'm surprised we still haven't had an inappropriate/cringy messageboard/ FB post come up in a campaign yet, but maybe that's because we're still largely being run by people who still haven't successfully transitioned from typewriter to keyboard.

I would see a cringy/inappropriate post or already posted coming out now much like I would a failing drug test at the NFL combine. It is less about the post or pic and more about the candidate not preparing for the combine/campaign by not scrubbing the social media presence as much as they can.

I suspect as Millennials and Gen Z become more firmly entrenched NOT having a cringy/inappropriate social media presence might be more of a problem.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Yeah. She needs to trust that her vibes will help her keep the base and that her TikTok volunteers will keep that energy up.

She, personally, needs to grab the silent but sizable group of moderates who were quietly going to vote for Biden but really won't pull the trigger for a "leftist."

The policies she is abandoning are incredibly popular. This isn't to lure moderates, it's to appease donors.

I do wonder if she's going to continue Biden's policy of banning TikTok considering she's gotten a ton of viral publicity from the app and it's really energized younger voters.

[Atocep]

538 has Harris up 2.9 points in polling average and dems are now up 1.1 in the generic poll.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

He already has successfully dodged it.

The media asked him about it. He said that he's going to make an announcement in a couple of weeks.

And, like everything he says is coming in a couple of weeks, it will never come, and no one will follow up with him about it.

I agree with your logic under most circumstances, but his coalition has a substantial percentage of folks that only support him for his achievements in limiting abortion rights. If this bill is close and he doesn't put his thumb on the scale to tip it, I can see that affecting his turnout there. There are a lot of folks that have it as their top voting issue, so I'm not sure he can flake on this one like he has fixing Obamacare or building the wall or releasing his taxes.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The policies she is abandoning are incredibly popular. This isn't to lure moderates, it's to appease donors.

I do wonder if she's going to continue Biden's policy of banning TikTok considering she's gotten a ton of viral publicity from the app and it's really energized younger voters.

They arent necessarily that popular with the votes she needs in specific states. I think this is the correct move to win the election. But it is a fine line as she does need the turnout of youth too.

[RainMaker]

Extremely normal stuff here.

NEW VANCE AUDIO: In an interview from 2020, JD Vance agrees with a podcast host who says having grandmothers help raise children is “the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female.”

He also agrees when the host says grandparents helping raise children is a "weird, unadvertised… pic.twitter.com/W4KwHfZyw2

— Heartland Signal (@HeartlandSignal) August 14, 2024

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Extremely normal stuff here.

NEW VANCE AUDIO: In an interview from 2020, JD Vance agrees with a podcast host who says having grandmothers help raise children is “the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female.”

He also agrees when the host says grandparents helping raise children is a "weird, unadvertised… pic.twitter.com/W4KwHfZyw2

— Heartland Signal (@HeartlandSignal) August 14, 2024

Take the nastiness and the sexism out of this and I still don’t understand the point they are trying to make.

Are they arguing that liberals think they should get childcare as a benefit of some sort (“give them money” he said) and that conservatives believe that extended family members should be responsible for the childcare of other members in their families? Because if those are the two choices I don’t think one of those sides is going to be as popular with the base as Mr. Vance apparently believes it is.

They argue and debate such weird things amongst themselves.

[RainMaker]

I think he's just very deep into that strange group of people with some idealized version of what they think real America is. He's heavily tied into Peter Thiel who is a fucking strange guy in general. They yearn for some vision of a white Christian nationalist nation (for others, not for them) they saw in a Sears Catalog from the 1950's. Their obsession is women and having them stay home to raise the kids and be subservient white baby makers for "the real men" of the country. Not surprising that divorced Dads who's kids don't talk to them like Elon eat this shit up.

It's really a weird and deep rabbit hold to go down if you have time. Lot of 4chan stuff mixed with white supremacist conspiracies.

The funny thing is that some of their ideas are not controversial. Like his idea for giving parents extra money is part of our current tax code. And saying you believe in a strong family structure and grandparents being involved is a popular sentiment. But they're so deep in that edgy 4chan shit that they make basic things most people agree on sound creepy.

[stevew]

How RFK Jr.’s presence on the Maine ballot could delay a projection in the 2024 race | CNN Politics



In Maine, for example, if no candidate wins a majority on election night, election officials must gather vote data from across the entire state and deliver it a central location in the state capital, where the actual tabulation takes place. That process could take more than a week, the Maine secretary of state’s office told CNN in 2020.


(This better not matter)

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The funny thing is that some of their ideas are not controversial. Like his idea for giving parents extra money is part of our current tax code.

But they called this Neo Liberal in this clip and seemed to oppose it with a conservative idea of grandparents quitting their jobs and watching the grandkids. Its all so bizarre.

As I was saying I don’t really understand the point they are going for.

[thesloppy]

Most of JD's weirdness seems directed at women (surprise!)

Hardcore abortion policies
Attacked biracial women
Questioned purpose of 'post menopausal women'
Attacked cat ladies
Attacked childless women
Suggested women in violent marriages should not get divorced
Suggested police should have access to women's medical record

I'm sure that will be a winning strategy, while running against a woman.

[Edward64]

Assume he is running out of money and it’s only going to get worse as Kamala has surging popularity. But thanks anyway for making the race a little interesting for Trump pre-Kamala.

Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s campaign reached out to Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign to arrange a meeting about a possible role in her administration if he drops out of the race and endorses her, a Kennedy campaign official and a Democratic official told CNN.

The approach from Kennedy’s team occurred last week, and no meeting between the two candidates materialized, the Kennedy campaign official told CNN.

[Atocep]

Absolutely zero upside to a deal like that for Harris. You don't need crazy in your administration and not would a deal likely hurt her with her own supporters, I don't think Kennedy's supporters are flipping over to Harris even with his endorsement.

He helps her more by staying in the race and he supposedly can't stand Trump.

[RainMaker]

Democrats and Independents were asked: Are you more or less likely to support a Democratic nominee who pledges to withhold weapons to Israel?

PA: 34% more likely, 7% less likely
GA: 39% vs 5%
AZ: 35% vs 5%

Harris earns more votes by supporting an arms embargo than opposing it. https://t.co/AMlaB0yGIr pic.twitter.com/DifujH8MlO

— Yonah Lieberman �� (@YonahLieberman) August 15, 2024

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Absolutely zero upside to a deal like that for Harris. You don't need crazy in your administration and not would a deal likely hurt her with her own supporters, I don't think Kennedy's supporters are flipping over to Harris even with his endorsement.

He helps her more by staying in the race and he supposedly can't stand Trump.

I think it depends on the cabinet post, certainly not State or Treasury. I think he has some good ideas outside of the crazy stuff. I do think some of his voters will come with him to Kamala if he doesn’t stay in.

So let’s get the win first and Kamala can remove him later if needed.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by dubb93

But they called this Neo Liberal in this clip and seemed to oppose it with a conservative idea of grandparents quitting their jobs and watching the grandkids. Its all so bizarre.

As I was saying I don’t really understand the point they are going for.

It's such a weird world they live in. They want women to have kids and not work, but they also want to exploit the fuck out of the workforce and maximize profits. What do they think is going to happen if you remove half the workforce? I have to assume this is why lizards like Thiel and Musk are going so hard on AI.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Absolutely zero upside to a deal like that for Harris. You don't need crazy in your administration and not would a deal likely hurt her with her own supporters, I don't think Kennedy's supporters are flipping over to Harris even with his endorsement.

He helps her more by staying in the race and he supposedly can't stand Trump.

exactly who ARE kennedy supporters? who are they for? who would they vote for otherwise? And I thought trump was the one that talked him into running.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

exactly who ARE kennedy supporters? who are they for? who would they vote for otherwise? And I thought trump was the one that talked him into running.

Joe Rogan and his fellow conspiracy nuts?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

exactly who ARE kennedy supporters? who are they for? who would they vote for otherwise?

I've wondered this as well, though not enough to do any actual digging into it. And I don't know a single person--not even those with whom I'm only in contact via social media because I haven't seen them in like 35+ years--who has expressed support for him. That said, my guesses, though...

• anti-vaxxers who think Trump is otherwise too toxic in general, too conservative in his other policies, etc.
• "moderates" (term used extremely loosely here) who happen to agree with the handful of his policies/proposals that are associated with opposite sides of the political spectrum (I mean, he's kinda strong left on some things, center-right on some, plus anti-vax....but in a country this big, I'm sure there are SOME people who agree with him on almost everything... )
• low-information voters who just want ANY option other than the two major parties and think/assume he's credible because of his name

None of these groups seem particularly large, but hey, in some of the swing states with really small margins of victory, they could matter. If Trump could have taken just 1/5 of the Libertarian vote in Georgia in 2020, he wins there. 1/4 of the same vote in Arizona, he wins there. A hair over 1/2 in Wisconsin, and he wins there. Overall, if he could have grabbed just 1/3ish of the (tiny) Libertarian vote in those three states, it's 269-269 and he gets a second term via the House. :eek; So.....joking about them aside, the percentages these candidacies peel off were demonstrably consequential in 2020, and could well be in 2024.

[Lathum]

I think a lot of Kennedy supporters are super low information who see the name Kennedy and assume he has the pedigree.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

Joe Rogan and his fellow conspiracy nuts?

Don't underestimate the conspiracy vote

[cuervo72]

There was a FB post from the other day from a HS classmate whose daughter got a "VOTE TRUMP NO TAX ON TIPS" message on a check. The check of course was for a bit over $72 and the tip was...$4.33. There was a good bit of back and forth on the thread from other HS folks. One said this:

Totally respect everyone's right to vote whatever way they want. Feels like people too often vote party over people, like it's a vote for the blue or red jersey. RFK is the only one talking about issues I care about. I listen to him speak instead of following headlines and what other people say about him. A combination of both parties. Politics is always crazy. Anyway, my daughter is a waitress also. Forget the notes and just tip them!

One reply:

[Redacted] agreed! But I think the GOP & the Dems destroyed RFK Jr’s campaign early because they made him look like a crazy man because of his beliefs regarding vaccines and his attempts to avenge his father’s death. I’ve watched countless interviews with him. He seems to be a very honorable man.

This was all the day before the whole bear thing.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Democrats and Independents were asked: Are you more or less likely to support a Democratic nominee who pledges to withhold weapons to Israel?

PA: 34% more likely, 7% less likely
GA: 39% vs 5%
AZ: 35% vs 5%

Harris earns more votes by supporting an arms embargo than opposing it. https://t.co/AMlaB0yGIr pic.twitter.com/DifujH8MlO

— Yonah Lieberman �� (@YonahLieberman) August 15, 2024

Along these lines, there is talk of a massive pro Palestinian protest at the DNC, which can potentially devolve into chaos. In both of these cases, what does this really do other than give Trump free campaign ads? Video of any violence in Chicago will run will run to the narration of "This is what Kamala's America looks like" and so on.

Isn't it help better to secure office for someone that may be open to tamping down on Israeli assistance, which would also likely come with reduced Ukraine assistance, then to help elect someone who will give Israel carte blanche to do whatever they want?

[Flasch186]

I think that there’s also a group of people supporting RFK so that they can look feel smarter then the sheeple and more evolved then the masses. They like to feel that way… like owning and driving a cyber truck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[albionmoonlight]

Tin foil hat time:

1. Trump's team cares about Trump and Trump's ego more than anything else.
2. They want to win, but even more important than winning is making sure that any loss is not Trump's fault.
3. Thus, the team is intentionally putting Vance in a position to fail.
4. They are hedging their bets--trying to win, but also making sure that Vance--not Trump--is seen as the problem.

This falls into the land of conspiracies that I don't actually believe, but my jaw wouldn't hit the floor if it turned out to be true.

This is a campaign with 9 straight years of advance experience and $300 million in cash on hand

what in the hell is going on here? pic.twitter.com/fiPiT6x1Bl

— Doug Landry (@dougblandry) August 15, 2024

[Atocep]

I don't think Trump has the energy to campaign at this point. He's having another presser from his club in NJ today.

They've also fired or forced out anyone with actual experience working a campaign. The only plan they had was to let Biden beat himself and flood the system with lawsuits if they lose.

[Atocep]

And right as I post that I see that they've brought Corey Lewandowski back in.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

And right as I post that I see that they've brought Corey Lewandowski back in.

They can bring in the smartest people to ever walk the planet and it won't make a difference. He was supposed to give a speech yesterday about economic policy and instead it devolved into his usual grievances and ranting. He is unable to pivot from the same old tired talking points.

[Swaggs]

Being president is a tough job and I don't think Trump wants to really work hard at a job at this point in his job, but I do think he is incredibly motivated to become (more) historically relevant and be seen as successful, so onward he must go.

Plus, running for president is lucrative. I would love to know how much he and his inner circle have personally profited from fundraising and perks. That's why I am shocked that the Hunter Biden stuff got so much traction. Look at how much Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, and their respective partners have taken advantage of this and it is easy to see why none of them want to truly let it go.

I do think the assassination attempt has made him consider how much longer he wants to go through with it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

They can bring in the smartest people to ever walk the planet and it won't make a difference. He was supposed to give a speech yesterday about economic policy and instead it devolved into his usual grievances and ranting. He is unable to pivot from the same old tired talking points.

Lewandowski wasn't very good to begin with. I'm not sure anyone else wants anything to do with a sinking campaign this close to election though.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Along these lines, there is talk of a massive pro Palestinian protest at the DNC, which can potentially devolve into chaos. In both of these cases, what does this really do other than give Trump free campaign ads? Video of any violence in Chicago will run will run to the narration of "This is what Kamala's America looks like" and so on.

Isn't it help better to secure office for someone that may be open to tamping down on Israeli assistance, which would also likely come with reduced Ukraine assistance, then to help elect someone who will give Israel carte blanche to do whatever they want?

It is the leopards eating faces party. Have fun with the Muslim ban if Trump wins

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Lewandowski wasn't very good to begin with. I'm not sure anyone else wants anything to do with a sinking campaign this close to election though.

To be certain but my point is Trump is his own worst enemy and until that changes campaign strategy means nothing.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Being president is a tough job and I don't think Trump wants to really work hard at a job at this point in his job, but I do think he is incredibly motivated to become (more) historically relevant and be seen as successful, so onward he must go.

Plus, running for president is lucrative. I would love to know how much he and his inner circle have personally profited from fundraising and perks. That's why I am shocked that the Hunter Biden stuff got so much traction. Look at how much Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, and their respective partners have taken advantage of this and it is easy to see why none of them want to truly let it go.

I do think the assassination attempt has made him consider how much longer he wants to go through with it.

I think he is terrified of going to prison for the rest of his life.

As for the profiting MAGAs hallmark is behaving badly then making false equivalencies when the "other side" does something even remotely close. Just look at the Walz stolen valor claims. Trump literally sent 5 other kids to war because daddy paid off the doctor yet vets love him.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It is the leopards eating faces party. Have fun with the Muslim ban if Trump wins

Not much of a retort when the current administration is genociding their family and friends.

[RainMaker]

Trump is nearly 80 and just had a bullet whiz by his head. I'm guessing between age and some PTSD, that's why we've seen less of him.

I think he wants to be President for the power. He likes the accolades, the money, and the attention it brings. I don't think he's concerned about prison because there is zero chance he ever spends a night in prison with our current justice system.

[JPhillips]

It doesn't help that the Trump family is stealing so much of the campaign and RNC funds.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not much of a retort when the current administration is genociding their family and friends.

And a Trump administration would only make it worse. There is a reason Bibi wants Trump to win.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah I don't understand the "sides" on this issue. It's the same position. The only reason there's an issue is because a portion of one side is surprised/unhappy with their side's position. But the other side is not an alternative position.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And a Trump administration would only make it worse. There is a reason Bibi wants Trump to win.

How do you make genocide worse?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I know he wants to be President for the power. He likes the accolades, the money, and the attention it brings.

Fixed it for you

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How do you make genocide worse?

More death, more destruction, zero assistance when it comes time to rebuild, etc...

[Lathum]

trump failing again miserable by going right to attacking Kamala and Walz

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

More death, more destruction, zero assistance when it comes time to rebuild, etc...

Israel is doing whatever it wants with no pushback. I don't know how Trump could do more. Gaza is destroyed, there are hundreds of thousands that are likely dead, and no plans for it to ever stop.

It's like telling Jewish people they have to vote for Hitler or Goebbels. They'll just sit out like anyone in that situation as it is their only leverage. You can't justify voting for someone who views you as not even human.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Most of JD's weirdness seems directed at women (surprise!)

Hardcore abortion policies
Attacked biracial women
Questioned purpose of 'post menopausal women'
Attacked cat ladies
Attacked childless women
Suggested women in violent marriages should not get divorced
Suggested police should have access to women's medical record

I'm sure that will be a winning strategy, while running against a woman.

Target demographic is divorced Dads who's kids don't talk to them anymore.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How do you make genocide worse?

Skip the "precision" bombing and go straight to the fuel air explosives and once you've swept up the ashes and remains out of the way, you can build new Israeli settlements. When the UN complains, act like the Turks with the Armenians.

It can *always* be worse.