The Trump Presidency – 2016

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Talking about fiscal responsibility and practicing it are two different things. Exactly what in his past makes you think that he's "arguably the most fiscally conservative President elected since Carter". He campaigned on trillions of dollars of new spending and not enough tax increases to pay for it.

I hope Biden is fiscally responsible. Honestly, I think he may actually have a fiscally responsible presidency because McConnell won't enact any of his big spending plans.

I don't think McConnell is fiscally responsible either, only that he's a giant dick.

We don't know what Biden will do till he's President. But we do know what he's done the last 40 years.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

No no, JPhillips. We have to play along with the fantasy.
I have said before that the Iraq War was the reason I left the Republican party, and that is true. It was the final straw. What started me down the slope, though, was the fiction of fiscally responsible Republicans. Before 9/11, and before the war you could see George W and the Republican congress spending money like crazy. Huge increases in the budget along with tax cuts. The budget surplus went down faster than a prom date. I had been told over and over and over again how if we just had a Republican President and a Republican congress, then spending would get under control. What actually happened is "let's cut social programs, unless it is a windfall to drug companies, and for every dollar we cut we will give two in a tax cut to the rich, two to businesses and two more to defense contractors. Spend spend spend, cut cut cut. Then go to endless wars to spend some more on no bid contracts to our donors, while they don't provide the soldiers the resources needed.
Fiscally responsible my aunt Fanny.

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Fiscal responsibility was always just a tool to get tax cuts for the rich. Now that they found ways to funnel taxpayer funds to the rich, they don't mind the spending part.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We don't know what Biden will do till he's President. But we do know what he's done the last 40 years.

I must say I'm REALLY tired of all the facebook articles flying by saying "Biden will do this in the first few days!"

Hell's bells he can't even get his name on the door yet, stop "saying" what "He WILL DO".

I'm sure he hasn't said everything he will do and in fact I am sure he is going to have groups of people around him all finding the best way to do things...it isn't just a one man show. Never was

[QuikSand]

This is pure gold, from Kevin Williamson: pic.twitter.com/d8YwQ8W8C1

— David French (@DavidAFrench) November 20, 2020

[JPhillips]

It's never too late to open one's eyes, but French was urging conservatives to vote GOP except for Trump just three weeks ago.

[Ksyrup]

Trump lawyers continuing with their bang-up job and eye on detail. You have to wonder if this is just straight-up purposeful now. Bar licenses need to be taken when the dust settles...

So @realdonaldTrump's lawyers submitted to a federal court an affidavit purportedly showing irregularities in voting patterns in MICHIGAN.

It turns out that that the affidavit contained data about towns in MINNESOTA. https://t.co/0VBQ6lwLEY

— George Conway (@gtconway3d) November 20, 2020

[AlexB]

I LOLd at the last paragraph:

A postscript: has Mr. Ramsland inadvertently stumbled across evidence of voter fraud in Minnesota? I seriously doubt it. The venues in question are all in red Greater Minnesota, not in the blue urban areas where voter fraud is common.

[Atocep]

An article today at Business Insider says Trump knows he lost, knows the cases have no chance of changing anything, and that dragging this out is to undermine Biden before he takes office as revenge against Dems for the Mueller investigation and impeachment.

That's actually one of the few scenarios that makes sense, matches Trump's personality, and explains the horrible cases that are going before judges. They don't care. It's not about winning in court.

[BYU 14]

Unfortunately his pathetic mindset of fucking up the country as a petty revenge tactic, still won't register with a large portion of his base. The koolaid in his cult is strong and of course he will spend the next year bloviating about every struggle Biden has as proof that he should have won, and the cult will eat it up. Never mind that shit like this will possibly be a big part of any struggles Biden has early next year.

[PilotMan]

I think you mean next 4 years BYU. That is, unless he goes to jail. He won't do the "presidential" thing and back off, he won't let him lead the country, and he'll stick his fucking ass in every news event, decision, and he'll try to fuck with every opportunity for his own benefit. Which on it's own, should send him to jail.

[Lathum]

The dems better realize the best chance they have to keep Trump off the ticket in 2024 is to throw his ass in jail.

[JPhillips]

Trump four years older doesn't scare me much.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know. Look at Lou Dobbs 4 years older. He fucking scares me. Now imagine that loon in office. He could be a mentally diminished semi-corpse and the election would be a toss-up.

[Swaggs]

Trumps’s presidential memoir is going to be amazing. Cannot imagine what type of fantasyland he will have dreamed up with another year of seething anger and isolation.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump four years older doesn't scare me much.

People don’t tend to get less bigoted and racist as they age...

[JPhillips]

No, but they do tend to get less effective. He's still got the cult, but the magic isn't there anymore.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The dems better realize the best chance they have to keep Trump off the ticket in 2024 is to throw his ass in jail.

They just kicked his ass. Now would be able to run 2024 as an incumbent. Dems I think would be happy with him running again.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They just kicked his ass. Now would be able to run 2024 as an incumbent. Dems I think would be happy with him running again.

Totally disagree on several levels. I doubt Biden runs for a second term, and if he does his presidency has a good chance of being a shit show from having to clean up the mess Trump left. I doubt the dem turnout is as good next time, no way there is as much enthusiasm. Lets not pretend a lot of the dem turnout wasn't anti Trump. four years is a long time and people have very short attention spans.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Totally disagree on several levels. I doubt Biden runs for a second term, and if he does his presidency has a good chance of being a shit show from having to clean up the mess Trump left. I doubt the dem turnout is as good next time, no way there is as much enthusiasm. Lets not pretend a lot of the dem turnout wasn't anti Trump. four years is a long time and people have very short attention spans.

I think one way to insure high turnout by the Dems is to have Trump on the ticket again. He'll be older and not have the same magic. Plus 4 more years of racist and xenophobic rants. Just don't see how he can win back votes.

I'm more fearful of a candidate who is like Trump but can hide it behind a better persona. Shit, Ivanka would scare me more than a near 80 year old Donald Trump. Republicans flipped a bunch of Dem seats and most of those candidates were women.

[RainMaker]

Should add that my opinion changes if the media does it's dumb rehab thing on him over the years. For example, take a look at how Bush is viewed by the public today.

[GrantDawg]

It would be tough to rehab his image in the main stream media, but I can definitely see the right wing media play him as a tragic, persecuted figure.

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[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm more fearful of a candidate who is like Trump but can hide it behind a better persona.

I wish to note this moment for posterity; I agree with RainMaker. I will now leave the thread so as to not risk disrupting this beautiful and rare event.

[Ksyrup]

I've seen that sentiment a lot, and even thought it myself, but there's also the undeniable fact that so many people are drawn to him because of his uniquely awful persona. They love that he's an asshole to the people they hate, or want taken down, or whatever perceived/real grievance they have with a myriad of different groups. I'm not sure a "slicker" version of Trump sticks as well.

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I've seen that sentiment a lot, and even thought it myself, but there's also the undeniable fact that so many people are drawn to him because of his uniquely awful persona. They love that he's an asshole to the people they hate, or want taken down, or whatever perceived/real grievance they have with a myriad of different groups. I'm not sure a "slicker" version of Trump sticks as well.

Just find someone younger who has the same attitude and approach to politics as Trump. And during the 2024 primary have them call Trump a boomer. What are reactionaries gonna do about it? Stick with their boomer or go with a younger version of Trump?

A huge reason why Trump got so much momentum early 2016 is that he started off as a meme saying stupid shit and his soundbites went viral on Youtube. It would be very poetic and ironic if Trump got Jeb'd.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by wustin

Just find someone younger who has the same attitude and approach to politics as Trump. And during the 2024 primary have them call Trump a boomer. What are reactionaries gonna do about it? Stick with their boomer or go with a younger version of Trump?

A huge reason why Trump got so much momentum early 2016 is that he started off as a meme saying stupid shit and his soundbites went viral on Youtube. It would be very poetic and ironic if Trump got Jeb'd.

I think this is where you are wrong; I think Ivanka steps in and Trump bleats about how his genes are continuing to lead America.

I think Don Jr and Eric are too stupid; but Ivanka and Jared will basically steal like Donnie and keep him out of trouble.

The Trumpanzees will eat it up even as the Republicans fall into line and fleece the middle class and revile the lower class while keeping the ultra Rich in power (the rich see this as a net benefit as well).

[sterlingice]

I think there's a significant part of the Trump voting block that would never vote for a woman for President, but maybe I'm wrong

SI

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think there's a significant part of the Trump voting block that would never vote for a woman for President, but maybe I'm wrong

SI

They would if they thought she was fuckable.

[Ksyrup]

Especially when Trump has said she's fuckable.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by wustin

Just find someone younger who has the same attitude and approach to politics as Trump. And during the 2024 primary have them call Trump a boomer. What are reactionaries gonna do about it? Stick with their boomer or go with a younger version of Trump?

A huge reason why Trump got so much momentum early 2016 is that he started off as a meme saying stupid shit and his soundbites went viral on Youtube. It would be very poetic and ironic if Trump got Jeb'd.

Someone who has the same attitude wouldn't be hiding anything. He'd just be a younger asshole without the name recognition. And going after Trump that way is bound to backfire among his true believers.

[GrantDawg]

I don't know the chance of success, but I think it is a good move:

President Donald Trump is "openly seeking to disenfranchise Black voters," citing baseless claims of election fraud, the lawsuit argues. https://t.co/FrADTMD7r3

— HuffPost Politics (@HuffPostPol) November 21, 2020

[JPhillips]

Even if the lawsuit won't go anywhere it's good to get the discussion going. The GOP gets away with a lot without any counter-messaging from the left.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think there's a significant part of the Trump voting block that would never vote for a woman for President, but maybe I'm wrong

SI

Weren't pretty much all flipped house seats due to female republican candidates ?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by whomario

Weren't pretty much all flipped house seats due to female republican candidates ?

Most were, but I think there's a difference between being in Congress or even VP and being the President.

SI

[Thomkal]

Trump loses again, this one in federal court in PA. Judge not happy at all with them and closes the case with prejudice-this is the one Rudy argued.

[GrantDawg]

They just sent a wing of B-52's to an unknown location in the Middle East.

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[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

They just sent a wing of B-52's to an unknown location in the Middle East.

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If that's a thing, they are certainly going to Diego Garcia.

[GrantDawg]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-milita...mpression=true

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[Edward64]

Israeli sources are saying Netanyahu flew to SA and met with MBS & Pompeo. SA Foreign Minister is denying it (but would he even know, and if he did, would he fess up?). I can see Trump doing a full court press to get this done before he leaves office.

I don't know Blinken's approach on ME but it would make sense to me, all things held equal, that SA would make a big show, ask for concessions, and give the "win" to Biden (vs lame duck Trump/Pompeo) to help relationships in the next 4 years.

Regardless, hoping SA will join the fold to normalize relations with Israel.

[Qwikshot]

Probably the luckiest thing is that Biden probably has an established network to talk with certain powers to counter Trump's dangerous activities. I think most of the world is done with Trump and even if there are a boatload of deplorables here happy to burn down the US. Most world leaders see such instability as a danger and will do everything to stabilize.

Trump really is a danger and threat to everyone, he should be dealt with like a rabid dog.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Probably the luckiest thing is that Biden probably has an established network to talk with certain powers to counter Trump's dangerous activities. I think most of the world is done with Trump and even if there are a boatload of deplorables here happy to burn down the US. Most world leaders see such instability as a danger and will do everything to stabilize.

Trump really is a danger and threat to everyone, he should be dealt with like a rabid dog.

You don't see UAE, Bahrain & possibly SA normalizing relationships with Israel as a good thing? or you don't think Trump & co. deserves the credit?

I think yes for the former and do think Trump & co gets credit for this push, he was somehow able to threaten, cajole, bribe etc. UAE & Bahrain to do it and doubt Hillary would have been as successful.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Edward64

You don't see UAE, Bahrain & possibly SA normalizing relationships with Israel as a good thing? or you don't think Trump & co. deserves the credit?

I think yes for the former and do think Trump & co gets credit for this push, he was somehow able to threaten, cajole, bribe etc. UAE & Bahrain to do it and doubt Hillary would have been as successful.

Trump deserves nothing but prison.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Israeli sources are saying Netanyahu flew to SA and met with MBS & Pompeo. SA Foreign Minister is denying it (but would he even know, and if he did, would he fess up?). I can see Trump doing a full court press to get this done before he leaves office.

I don't know Blinken's approach on ME but it would make sense to me, all things held equal, that SA would make a big show, ask for concessions, and give the "win" to Biden (vs lame duck Trump/Pompeo) to help relationships in the next 4 years.

Regardless, hoping SA will join the fold to normalize relations with Israel.

I mean, how much will it really change the way that the region is no longer relevant to us? We’ve already achieved the holy grail of ME policy, through domestic production and renewables their oil can be safely ignored now when the US is forming foreign policy. That’s the game changer. Whatever Netanyahu or MBS are doing it’s for domestic reasons. So we can give Trump credit for falling for that con one last time I guess.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

I mean, how much will it really change the way that the region is no longer relevant to us? We’ve already achieved the holy grail of ME policy, through domestic production and renewables their oil can be safely ignored now when the US is forming foreign policy. That’s the game changer.

Although we are now producing a lot more domestic oil, we still import about 9M+ barrels a day because of different grades of crude. I do agree that is where we want to be, we shouldn't be getting into stuff in the ME because we need the oil. Definitely going in the right direction, I just don't think we are there yet ... maybe, 20+ years?

Whatever Netanyahu or MBS are doing it’s for domestic reasons. So we can give Trump credit for falling for that con one last time I guess.

It's primarily regional vs domestic, and I think why it'll happen is because of Iran. Enemy of a bigger enemy is my frenemy. Iraq & Yemen is the battleground proxy. SA stands no chance militarily against Iran so they have to make friends.

For Netanyahu, the added bonus is the Palestinian issue is more and more irrelevant as Arab countries now are more concerned about Iran (and other stuff) than the Palestinians.

US will stay in the region to counter Iran by supporting Israel and the frenemies. I'm not sure China's stance here with Iran vs SA, have to read up more about that.

[CrimsonFox]

Trump Exits Open Skies Treaty, Moves to Discard Observation Planes - WSJ

So Trump pulled the US out of the Open Skies treaty and is destroying the observation planes...so no more getting surveillance from Russia for us and our allies.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Trump Exits Open Skies Treaty, Moves to Discard Observation Planes - WSJ

So Trump pulled the US out of the Open Skies treaty and is destroying the observation planes...so no more getting surveillance from Russia for us and our allies.

Why does it always go back to Russia?


It is stuff like this that just makes me want to scream. He is not hiding his attempt to harm our country. It is not in the least bit covert. He his doing it in plain sight. Just like his attempt to steal the election. Remember the Post Master General destroying expensive sorting equipment? I mean, these things aren't even subtle. The sudden pull out of Syria? The constant middle finger to our Allies? Yet, the supposed Super Patriots go along with it. They have the help of the enabling "it really is no big deal" people, along with the "but he helped my 401k" crew. Agh!

[Edward64]

Don't know what the WSJ article says but the CNN article said Russia does not always adhere to it. However, European allies want it because I guess something is better than nothing. And we have shared satellite photos with the allies.

Don't know all the pros and cons but this particular treaty doesn't seem that compelling to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/polit...ies/index.html

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Don't know what the WSJ article says but the CNN article said Russia does not always adhere to it. However, European allies want it because I guess something is better than nothing. And we have shared satellite photos with the allies.

Don't know all the pros and cons but this particular treaty doesn't seem that compelling to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/polit...ies/index.html

It is so unimportant, that they have ordered the planes disassembled to make sure the treaty can't be re-enacted. Sounds like it is pretty important they make sure it is gone.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Why does it always go back to Russia?


It is stuff like this that just makes me want to scream. He is not hiding his attempt to harm our country. It is not in the least bit covert. He his doing it in plain sight. Just like his attempt to steal the election. Remember the Post Master General destroying expensive sorting equipment? I mean, these things aren't even subtle. The sudden pull out of Syria? The constant middle finger to our Allies? Yet, the supposed Super Patriots go along with it. They have the help of the enabling "it really is no big deal" people, along with the "but he helped my 401k" crew. Agh!

I’ve been thinking about this a lot over the last couple of days, and in particular his ‘I love the uneducated’ line in 2016. He knew even then that he could make people believe what he said regardless of facts or what other information was in the public domain, and was telling everyone, trolling us in fact

He may have had some genius by making people try to think what type of 3D politics he was playing, when he was just punching you in the face

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It is so unimportant, that they have ordered the planes disassembled to make sure the treaty can't be re-enacted. Sounds like it is pretty important they make sure it is gone.

link?

[kingfc22]

Trump Exits Open Skies Treaty, Moves to Discard Observation Planes - WSJ

A senior U.S. official said the planes are being designated as “excess defense articles,” which means they can be given to foreign partners at reduced or no cost.

“We’ve started liquidating the equipment,” the official said. “Other countries can come purchase or just take the airframes. They are really old and cost-prohibitive for us to maintain. We don’t have a use for them anymore.”