Game of Thrones on HBO

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Like I mentioned, I completely understand why they had it unfold like they did for dramatic effect. You can't have everyone acting perfectly rational or have things unfold in a very straightforward, technical sort of way because that gets in the way of excitement, drama, and that sort of stuff.

That said, I still think that Jon could have known the Vale was coming and still have it be a pretty cool scene. Especially since this is the third time now that an army has come out of nowhere to save the day at the last minute. It could have been interesting to see it unfold that way.

Hard to say whether or not it would have been better. The battle itself was pretty spectacular.

Yes. If Jon had known the Knights of the Vale were coming he still could've done the same dumb things to draw out Ramsey's forces before smashing them on the battlefield. (Though as people pointed out, it's completely impossible an army that size could just be moving through the North without Jon or Ramsey knowing about it.) You still could've had Jon Snow/the wildlings being worked in those fight sequences, with the drama being whether Baelish would actually hold up his end of the bargain and not quintuple-cross him and support Ramsey again, instead of the lame, perfectly-timed Deus Ex Machina.

I also didn't like how Wun-Wun never had any weapons (like, give him a tree and he's opening a gap in that circle, right?), Ghost apparently decided to sit this one out, and I guess the main gate at unbreakable Winterfell is made out of wood and protected by a single 2x4

[MrBug708]

The gate doesn't breaking doesn't bother me. Winterfell and the North does that really expect sieges

[whomario]

Can we agree that John Snow needs, like, a babysitter or be put on a chain you can yank anytime he gets heroic ? Let him make the speeches and pretend-charge, but make sure someone else is making the actual decisions. Also, when did this whole "awesome sword fighter" reputation develop and get spread when to me it seemed that there wasn´t any news from the wall getting through for ages ?

Found the battle at Winterfell a bit dull, but some great visuals. The moments around where the 2 cavalries met was cinematic dynamite. Ser Davos acting quickly and sending the riders in way well executed.

Liked the Mereen part better, partly because smug Dany is good Dany (same for Tyrion and even Greyworm is getting there). Also Dragons in the plural It truly does seem like an incredible competitive advantage


A very small thing that really bugged me: Whoever in the writing room decided to play the "illiterate big oaf" card on Thormund, you overdid it. It was well established before that the Wildlings are at best a force and not an army, that was really overdoing it there. Also, i am pretty sure anybody who ever fought a battle (especially like him against the move) would extrapolate the meaning just from the super-obvious names (Pincer Movement, Double Envelopment) even without proper training.

[ISiddiqui]

I'd be fine with putting Jon on a leash that is held by Tormund during battles .

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by whomario

smug Dany is good Dany

I guess it's better than looking-blankly-slightly-past-the-camera Dany. I will say that there have been a few scenes that I've enjoyed her in this season. Before that, the best I could hope for was that the scene ended quickly.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I thought it was a terrific episode. Yes, it wasn't a surprise how it went (with Mereen either), but it was well executed and shot at least. And I loved the end.

Agreed. I've seen some complaints that it was too predictable and a fairy tale ending. But GoT rarely has happy endings. It's rare when bad guys finally get their comeuppance. You can't constantly have the likable characters getting shit on over and over.

Thought the episode was fantastic. Loved the shot of Jon Snow standing ready to take on the whole Bolton army. Great visual, great music, great episode.

[RainMaker]

I also thought that Jon running in like an idiot is just part of who he is. He makes his decisions based on emotion. It's why Sansa doesn't trust him. All characters have their flaws.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Agreed. I've seen some complaints that it was too predictable and a fairy tale ending. But GoT rarely has happy endings. It's rare when bad guys finally get their comeuppance. You can't constantly have the likable characters getting shit on over and over.

Thought the episode was fantastic. Loved the shot of Jon Snow standing ready to take on the whole Bolton army. Great visual, great music, great episode.

x2.

Like I said last page, the 2nd last season is wrapping up, so it shouldn't be surprising that the good guys are going to start picking up some Ws. The big finale figures to be a Westeros vs White Walkers showdown I would think, and we need some kind of unified Westeros for that to happen. What happened in the North and over in Mereen paved a path towards that. Not sure exactly how we'll get there, but it feels like we're actually moving towards it, one way or the other, just need to see who out of Dorne/Daenerys/Lannister/Stark comes out of the dust up that's coming on top.

[law90026]

I think Sansa made the right choice not telling Jon about her trump card. Jon's a moron and he would have just over committed the entire force because of his stupidity. By not letting him know about the troops, he can't screw up the overall plan.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by law90026

I think Sansa made the right choice not telling Jon about her trump card. Jon's a moron and he would have just over committed the entire force because of his stupidity. By not letting him know about the troops, he can't screw up the overall plan.

Do we know that she actually knew Littlefinger would come? I can't remember if it was ever made explicit. Either way, she might have told Jon if he'd asked her thoughts during the war council.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Do we know that she actually knew Littlefinger would come? I can't remember if it was ever made explicit. Either way, she might have told Jon if he'd asked her thoughts during the war council.

I think the assumption is that she knew Littlefinger would come, at least based on the meeting she had with him. Whether he had actually arrived by the time the battle began is a different question though.

I was actually rooting for Jon to get trampled just before his forces arrived to be honest. Dying in a stupid heroic way that serves no purpose is about right for Jon I think.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Do we know that she actually knew Littlefinger would come? I can't remember if it was ever made explicit. Either way, she might have told Jon if he'd asked her thoughts during the war council.

None of it was explicitly stated. They met in Molestown in episode five. She not only refused his offer of help then, but gave him a good dressing-down as well. In episode seven, after their recruitment drive and realizing she wouldn't have enough men, she swallowed her pride and sent a letter. What was in it, and to whom, were never explicitly stated either. It was reasonable to assume that it was going to be sent to him though.

Whether she knew he was coming before the battle started is something I hope they discuss in the next episode. I don't remember seeing much that would have given her a reason to distrust Jon prior to his reckless charge. I really hope that she just didn't know for certain.

[whomario]

I think Sansa was just afraid that Jon would refuse the aid and lets be fair here, that´s a valid assumption.

Sansa has quitely emerged as one of my favourite characters this season.

Am i wrong in assuming that Littlefinger and Jon will not get along in spectacular fashion, even more so that Ned and Littlefinger ? I foresee a lot of eye-rolling (by Littlefinger) and muttered swearing (by Jon) if they actually get some scenes together.

[RainMaker]

What do you all think of Kit Harrington as an actor? I know they don't always get the best performances out of these actors but I think he's been terrific. That scene on the battlefield where he sighs and looks defeated was incredible.

Would also add that the actress who plays Brienne and the actor who plays Jaime are both great.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by whomario

I think Sansa was just afraid that Jon would refuse the aid and lets be fair here, that´s a valid assumption.

Sansa has quitely emerged as one of my favourite characters this season.

Am i wrong in assuming that Littlefinger and Jon will not get along in spectacular fashion, even more so that Ned and Littlefinger ? I foresee a lot of eye-rolling (by Littlefinger) and muttered swearing (by Jon) if they actually get some scenes together.

my money is on littlefinger asking for sansa's hand in marriage in exchange for the vale's help

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What do you all think of Kit Harrington as an actor? I know they don't always get the best performances out of these actors but I think he's been terrific. That scene on the battlefield where he sighs and looks defeated was incredible.

Would also add that the actress who plays Brienne and the actor who plays Jaime are both great.

I think Kit Harrington has gotten better and better. He's been at his best this season.

Brienne and Jaime are great. Overall, I think the cast is pretty fantastic. Dany isn't always great. She really shines whenever she's speaking Old Valyrian or Dothraki. Dinklage is fantastc. Cersei. Tywin. Ramsay Bolton.

The casting is pretty much phenomenal.

Some complaints aside, the show is much, much better than I could have ever really hoped for or imagined. Is it perfect? No. But neither or the books. But the cast, writing, sets, direction, pretty much everything, is amazing considering the source material is a fantasy novel.

It's been a remarkable achievement.

The Decade Of The Geek, which originally started in the aughts, has persisted. It is now an era.

[PilotMan]

I thought that there was a moment near the end of one of the episodes where Sansa was reading a note from a raven that carried some significance. Supposedly, that was that was the confirmation that Littlefinger was coming.

[Edward64]

Looks like LS has been inactive since 2012. We need a poll on who/which team wins The Game.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think Sansa's "mistrust" of Jon isn't actually that she doesn't trust him, but that she knows he would be unreasonable about her relationship with Baelish. whomario has it spot on that they definitely wouldn't get along.

I wonder how they are going to character develop the Ned Stark out of Jon Snow - that is, the blind justice, do what's right at all costs mentality. He's obviously destined for something great, but we've seen so many instances of people getting shat on for "doing the right thing" that one has to assume that he's going to learn sooner or later. You would think getting killed for it was enough, but I think they need a little more screen time of him actually indicating that he gets it now.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What do you all think of Kit Harrington as an actor? I know they don't always get the best performances out of these actors but I think he's been terrific. That scene on the battlefield where he sighs and looks defeated was incredible.

Would also add that the actress who plays Brienne and the actor who plays Jaime are both great.

For the first season or 2 I thought he was awful. He's gotten better each season though and now I think he's doing an outstanding job with the role.

I think the Davos casting is fantastic as well.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

my money is on littlefinger asking for sansa's hand in marriage in exchange for the vale's help

I think he already owed her when she lied for him during the Lysa death inquiry. That's not going to stop him from asking though.

[Honolulu_Blue]

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Ghost apparently decided to sit this one out

I was remarking on that during the episode, where the heck has he been?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I was remarking on that during the episode, where the heck has he been?

Yeah, the marginalization of the dire wolves has been one of the bigger negatives of the show versus the books. I think they just really struggle with filming them and having them look good/realistic. As a result, they are, sadly, sidelined.

[whomario]

While the director came out and admitted it was for budgetary reasons, looking at it from a "realism" standpoint: Might have as well killed him before the battle then. They are not magical creatures (right ?) just basically large wolves that have a unique bond to their owner. On a crowded battlefield, what use would a single dire wolf be ? In a skirmish against a few people, sure. But in that carnage i´d have to do a whole lot of suspension of disbelieve thingy for him to plausibly survive (especially with Ramsay on the other side of the equation)

[JPhillips]

It didn't really need it, but dire wolf versus Ramsey's dogs would have been a cool sequence.

I do wonder why Ramsey got his dogs ready if he didn't intend on using them in the battle.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It didn't really need it, but dire wolf versus Ramsey's dogs would have been a cool sequence.

I do wonder why Ramsey got his dogs ready if he didn't intend on using them in the battle.

I think it was more to use them after battle.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It didn't really need it, but dire wolf versus Ramsey's dogs would have been a cool sequence.

I do wonder why Ramsey got his dogs ready if he didn't intend on using them in the battle.

They're for gruesomely killing people (and threatening people with gruesome deaths), not a battlefield tool.

I agree that Ghost not being part of the larger battle plan made sense, but thought he could've made an appearance once they stormed Winterfell. Plus you know, Jon Snow ain't exactly known for making smart decisions, and we've seen Ghost break out on his own to save the day and Jon Snow's life before.

I'm sure we'll get some talk this week from Sansa/Jon/Littlefinger/Davos about the overall plan, but I don't see any satisfying explanation on the table. And yes, clearly this is nitpicking and it was a very fun episode, but this is a trend since they started going off script. Part of what I loved as a book reader was that most people's actions might be incredibly evil - or at least sociopathically self-interested - but they made sense.

[whomario]

2 quick questions regarding the last episode:

1) Who were the people that Ramsay put on those crosses and burned ? Just random people still left from the old Winterfell population ?

2) What was the deal with the Sons of the Harpy killing people in front of that gate (to where ?) that then were ambushed by the Dothraki ?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by whomario

2) What was the deal with the Sons of the Harpy killing people in front of that gate (to where ?) that then were ambushed by the Dothraki ?

The Sons of the Harpy were supported by the Masters, remember. It's likely that the Masters told 'em to unleash hell inside Meereen/by the gates of Meereen to make any response to their bombardment more confused and chaotic.

[Groundhog]

Re; Ramsay's dogs, I don't think dogs have been used in actual battles since Ancient Greece, and would not stand much of a hope against armed men or even be able to probably differentiate between your troops and the other side while battle was raging... Chasing down fleeing troops though, yeah. That's what I expected to happen when Rickon started running, before Ramsay was handed the bow.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

The Sons of the Harpy were supported by the Masters, remember. It's likely that the Masters told 'em to unleash hell inside Meereen/by the gates of Meereen to make any response to their bombardment more confused and chaotic.

yeah, but what was the point to dragging people outside the city (where no one else is noticing) and then play stab-the-human with them ? At first i thought it was the arena, but it being outside the city seemed a weird setting to me, so i just assume it was to create a setpiece for a Dothraki-Charge. But thought i maybe missed sth mentioned beforehand.

Just rewatched the episode and god that battle was sickening on 2nd viewing as well... Great job mixing "realism" (in how a medieval battle could have looked, borrowing a bit from antiquity and the height of the viking age for good measure) and elements in there mainly for symbolism. I am also happy Thormund still survived, i had him on my shortlist of potential shock kills ...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

The Sons of the Harpy were supported by the Masters, remember. It's likely that the Masters told 'em to unleash hell inside Meereen/by the gates of Meereen to make any response to their bombardment more confused and chaotic.

That really looked low budget and unnecessary.

[Coffee Warlord]

It's time boys.

[korme]

SO GOOD

[Coffee Warlord]

That happened.

[Easy Mac]

That happened exactly as the Reddit spoilers predicted

[sabotai]

THE KING IN THE NORTH!

[sabotai]

Also, Tommen's scene reminded me of the movie Whatever Works.

[korme]

Please somebody explain what the woman was saying to young Ned while Bran was warging and the significance. It's the only part I'm not quite sure I followed through.

[Sublime 2]

Just so much YES!

I'm content.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[Coffee Warlord]

Them Northerners have a rather abrupt way of choosing monarchs.

[Jas_lov]

She asked Ned to take care of her baby, Jon Snow, and raise it as his own.

[claphamsa]

does that make him a stark? or is Sansa still in charge?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Them Northerners have a rather abrupt way of choosing monarchs.

They could've copied the Ironborn and buried him in a snowpile

[Coffee Warlord]

The music in that entire episode was absofuckinglutely STELLAR.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

does that make him a stark? or is Sansa still in charge?

He's either still a bastard, or, if her and Rhaegar secretly wed, he'd be a Targaryen.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by korme

Please somebody explain what the woman was saying to young Ned while Bran was warging and the significance. It's the only part I'm not quite sure I followed through.

The young woman was Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister. If I remember correctly, she said (when you could actually hear her) "You have to pretend. Promise me, Ned". Close up of baby's face, cut to close up of Jon Snow's face.

It confirmed the R+L=J theory that Jon Snow is the child of Rhaegar Targaryan and Lyanna Stark.

[Vince, Pt. II]

As much as it felt like "well, we can't really wrap this up neatly so let's blow it all up," that was pretty great.

[Coffee Warlord]

By the by. Screw the King in the North. There is only one Queen in the North, and her name is Lyanna Mormont.