Game of Thrones on HBO

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Anyone else think Frey got off easy? It didn't seem to make up for the Red Wedding treachery. It seems she made that other guy suffer a lot more last season.

Eating your children in a pie and then getting your throat slit is pretty high up there in ways not to go.

[thesloppy]

She really shoulda strung it out a longer, considering the logistics involved. She had to kill both the younger Freys then like clear out the kitchen for 8 hours for some hardcore butchery, prep & baking. I doubt Arya could cook anything that looked that lovely....but I know someone who could.



Hot Pie represent, yo. If you ever needed anybody baked into pies, that's who you'd go to.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Eating your children in a pie and then getting your throat slit is pretty high up there in ways not to go.

The Titus Andronicus?

[Pyser]

some good stuff in this interview with the showrunners

Game Of Thrones David Benioff D.B. Weiss On Shocking Season 6 Finale | Deadline

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

The Titus Andronicus?

Pelops pie

[BYU 14]

You weren't cool if you didn't own a pair of Angel Flight jeans

[stevew]

Okay, so if Bran was marked by the Night's King and then was no longer safe in the tree, isn't Bran going over the wall going to have the same effect?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by stevew

Okay, so if Bran was marked by the Night's King and then was no longer safe in the tree, isn't Bran going over the wall going to have the same effect?

Was it not more a “now he can find him“ thing ? But it would certainly be fitting

[Edward64]

So what do we think was the secret that the Grand Sparrow told Tommen who then told Cersei?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So what do we think was the secret that the Grand Sparrow told Tommen who then told Cersei?

The theory that the Grand Sparow told Tommen that the Tryrells were responsible for Joffery's death still holds up. That gave Cersei more reason to want to melt all the Tyrells she could.

Or maybe the Grand Sparow told Tommen about Tommen's true parentage, and how tenuous Tommen's claim on the throne was, and how he needed the faith on his side. That might encourage Tommen to do what he felt he had to do. Though Tommen didn't seem much like a "hold power at all costs" kind of guy.

[Pyser]

So what assets/allies do the Lannisters have left?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So what do we think was the secret that the Grand Sparrow told Tommen who then told Cersei?

I think it's more of the straightforward explanation - Margaery was going to do the "walk of shame" shortly.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Pyser

So what assets/allies do the Lannisters have left?

The Lannister army. The Gold Cloaks. The Freys (who are now leaderless and can't do anything anyway). That's about it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think it's more of the straightforward explanation - Margaery was going to do the "walk of shame" shortly.

That doesn't seem to be something he needed to whisper to his mother?

I don't see the parentage either. If Tommen knew, wouldn't there be more of a confrontation with mom?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The Lannister army. The Gold Cloaks. The Freys (who are now leaderless and can't do anything anyway). That's about it.

Don't forget the skull smasher & ripper.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

That doesn't seem to be something he needed to whisper to his mother?

The show likes whispering for no reason? I mean what was the reason for Lyanna to whisper to Ned about Jon's parentage?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The show likes whispering for no reason? I mean what was the reason for Lyanna to whisper to Ned about Jon's parentage?

Because the characters are aware of the television audience and don't want us to know!

[molson]

I don't think he whispered anything, they just cut away

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The Lannister army. The Gold Cloaks. The Freys (who are now leaderless and can't do anything anyway). That's about it.

Maybe the rest of the Greyjoys, by default. Maybe Euron could offer his ships to Cersi for her hand in marriage/big cock. (Edit: I'm not sure if there's anyone else Cersi could marry, but finding some decent match would seem to be the typical go-to in situations like this, in this particular universe).

[Landshark44]

what was the backstory behind grandmaester pycelle getting killed by those children...? i feel like i'm missing something...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Landshark44

what was the backstory behind grandmaester pycelle getting killed by those children...? i feel like i'm missing something...

They are the 'little birds' that Varys ran and now Qyburn runs.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Landshark44

what was the backstory behind grandmaester pycelle getting killed by those children...? i feel like i'm missing something...

Haven´t seen anything other than "it was a way to show that it was a personal vendetta of Qyburn (Pycell ratted him out back when)" rather than just part of Cerseis plan (he was on the way to the sept anyway)

I personally on first viewing took it as maybe, kinda, sorta a way of implying Pedophilia with the young prostitute in the scene before and then the "logical" next step and maybe that being the big "candy" to offer the little birds as reward for their work ... But then again i know nothing about the books past the first volume and there´s nothing before in the show (i think) to suggest he´s guilty of that.

[Sublime 2]

Maybe I missed something, but Varys was in Dorne and on Daenerys' ships right?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Maybe I missed something, but Varys was in Dorne and on Daenerys' ships right?

Yep.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Maybe I missed something, but Varys was in Dorne and on Daenerys' ships right?

Varys was in Dorne and then he was with Daenerys' entire fleet which had Dorne and Tyrell ships among them. The point of the scene was to show what Varys accomplished (securing two alliances). It would be jarring for the show to use some "three months later" title card at this point. However much time needed to pass for it to be believable that Varys got back, then that's how much time passed. This isn't 24.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Because the characters are aware of the television audience and don't want us to know!

To me it seemed perfectly obvious to whisper because there were other people around and she did absolutely not want Robert to find out that this is Rhaegars son. I mean, this is probably just book readers looking for extra information when people only watching the show probably see this as pretty major and can (imo) deduct it pretty easily (whereas book readers go "yeah, we know that already, there has to be more !")

Maybe i´m wrong here though.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

To me it seemed perfectly obvious to whisper because there were other people around and she did absolutely not want Robert to find out that this is Rhaegars son.

There was Ned and the nurse, who I presume knows already. No need for whispers.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Varys was in Dorne and then he was with Daenerys' entire fleet which had Dorne and Tyrell ships among them. The point of the scene was to show what Varys accomplished (securing two alliances). It would be jarring for the show to use some "three months later" title card at this point. However much time needed to pass for it to be believable that Varys got back, then that's how much time passed. This isn't 24.

yeah, i´m not sure why people get hung up on this. I mean, this has always been a show of snapshots in a flow of ongoing time (and i presume similar in the books with the POV characters, not an uncommon trope really).

[whomario]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

There was Ned and the nurse, who I presume knows already. No need for whispers.

I didn´t. Not exactly relevant for her, is it ?

Or maybe it actually isn´t meant to be 100% clear whose son it is to pure show-watchers who don´t google this stuff (no idea how many there are, but might be a point of pride for the writers) ? No idea, just think it´s neither terribly unusual nor totally out of place.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

I didn´t. Not exactly relevant for her, is it ?

Who exactly do you think hired the nurse?

And considering the Kingsguard are the ones guarding the place.

[PilotMan]

Three months? Try three months each way given the pace that GRRM moves in his books. I saw Varys on the boat and screamed "gahhhhh, no fucking way"

Cersei doesn't have the temperament to rule the 7 Kingdoms. It's what she's always wanted, but even her father kept her in check. I actually thought she was going to have Tommen killed, and I guess she effectively did.

She might be a player, but she's only great in her own mind. She has no concept of the things that are trending in the rest of the kingdom. She's destroyed half of Kings Landing, ensured enemies will march against her, and lost the North all in a short while.

I'm curious what was going through Jamie's mind as he watched his sister's coronation. What a rough way to find out your last kid was dead. He's clearly a man who's been trying to find a different path than Kingslayer, while Cersei just doubled down on death. She can't be too far below the Mad King at this point. So will he fall in line and assume head of the Kingsguard? Or will he decide to walk a different path, knowing that he can't love Cersei any longer?

[ISiddiqui]

OTOH, what other option did she really have there. The septas would have convicted her and her option would have been to go the Loras way - dedicate your life to the seven or be killed.

Once Tommen took away Trial by Combat he sealed everyone's fate.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Who exactly do you think hired the nurse?

And considering the Kingsguard are the ones guarding the place.

Yes, but couldn´t he still love her even if it was not his child ? From all we know from the show Rhaegar was a real mensch in the eyes of a lot of people at least (which is why it was always weird to think of him kidnapping her and all that).

[whomario]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

OTOH, what other option did she really have there. The septas would have convicted her and her option would have been to go the Loras way - dedicate your life to the seven or be killed.

Once Tommen took away Trial by Combat he sealed everyone's fate.

Could have targeted the sparrow and high ranking officials individually, no ? I know she was backed into a corner, but within this metaphor the evil thing about her is that she not only fights to get out but then goes back and kills the wounded, too. It´s more to do with what we know/think she will do now, less than with the things she did there.

Then again, maybe Thommen can´t jump if the Mountain stays with him rather than be with Cersei to torture that septa ?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

Yes, but couldn´t he still love her even if it was not his child ? From all we know from the show Rhaegar was a real mensch in the eyes of a lot of people at least (which is why it was always weird to think of him kidnapping her and all that).

Well that is stretching it quite a bit. Does that make any sense to you?

And, of course, when you have the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and the best fighter of the Kingsguard (Arthur Dayne) not on the field at the Battle of the Trident, but guarding the birthing place of Jon... well, the kid has to be Targaryen blood. The other strange rumor is that it may be Aerys II's, but no evidence that Aerys II ever met Lyanna.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

Could have targeted the sparrow and high ranking officials individually, no ?

How? Remember when she asked Jaime why he didn't kill the Sparrow when he was in the Sept with him?

[larrymcg421]

Three months, six months, three years. Why does it matter? It's not like the show said one week has passed and then showed Varys back in Mereen. Since the show doesn't mention how much time passed, then it's pretty easy for me assume that however long that needed to take is how much time had passed.

[The Jackal]

Yeah, and while the general idea is that events are happening concurrently, rarely has there been a point that I can recall in Mereen etc where you know what is happening at the same time in Westeros. Just because the events are separated by scenes in a single episode doesn't mean they are happening at the same linear time.

I fully admit that some of the situations have been a stretch, but I'm totally fine ignoring it.

[The Jackal]

Also, maybe Lyanna whispered to Ned because she was like, on her deathbed, and couldn't summon the strength to speak much more loudly.

Can someone remind me what happened in the first flashback when Ned was fighting Arthur Dayne? I remember Dayne was kicking his ass, but the conclusion of that scene before Bran goes back escapes me.

[molson]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Yeah, and while the general idea is that events are happening concurrently, rarely has there been a point that I can recall in Mereen etc where you know what is happening at the same time in Westeros. Just because the events are separated by scenes in a single episode doesn't mean they are happening at the same linear time.

I fully admit that some of the situations have been a stretch, but I'm totally fine ignoring it.

One of the GOT books even has a "warning" in the front of it about how you shouldn't get all worked up over time stuff, that the events depicted are not necessarily happening in sequential order, with some specified amount of time between each chapter.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Also, maybe Lyanna whispered to Ned because she was like, on her deathbed, and couldn't summon the strength to speak much more loudly.

Can someone remind me what happened in the first flashback when Ned was fighting Arthur Dayne? I remember Dayne was kicking his ass, but the conclusion of that scene before Bran goes back escapes me.

Howland Reed stabbed him through the back of the neck.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Howland Reed stabbed him through the back of the neck.

Thank you.

[stevew]

So is cersei supposed to be killed by her littler brother or just a generic little brother? That has to put the Hound in play?

[whomario]

@ stevew: I think this might be spoiler-worthy, maybe ? (as it´s purely a book thing)

Spoiler

On the other hand, the show purposely omitted that part from the books. So either they did "hold it back" to show it later (maybe on Bran-TV or her retelling it right before it happens) or the showwriters specifically wanted to be more free as to the way she dies (heck, technically if she dies at all).

[RainMaker]

Can someone explain to me what the importance of the kids were? Was it just them being easy to manipulate to do their bidding or something bigger behind it?

Also my gripe with Arya is that they never made it seem like she became a great assassin. She routinely got her ass kicked by the Waif and looked shaky when she was going out to assassinate someone. It would have looked better if she had spent a year or so actually assassinating people.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Can someone explain to me what the importance of the kids were? Was it just them being easy to manipulate to do their bidding or something bigger behind it?

Also my gripe with Arya is that they never made it seem like she became a great assassin. She routinely got her ass kicked by the Waif and looked shaky when she was going out to assassinate someone. It would have looked better if she had spent a year or so actually assassinating people.

as for the little birds:

Haven´t seen anything other than "it was a way to show that it was a personal vendetta of Qyburn (Pycell ratted him out back when)" rather than just part of Cerseis plan (he was on the way to the sept anyway)

I personally on first viewing took it as maybe, kinda, sorta a way of implying Pedophilia with the young prostitute in the scene before and then the "logical" next step and maybe that being the big "candy" to offer the little birds as reward for their work ... But then again i know nothing about the books past the first volume and there´s nothing before in the show (i think) to suggest he´s guilty of that.


re: Arya: I took it as her looking shaky a) was pretty much done with after she killed the Waif and b) had a lot to do with *being no one* and related to this *killing someone (random)* (and recognizing "b" lead to "a" in a way)

It seemed less like she sucked, but that she was "morally challenged", wasn´t it ? Now she´s Arya Stark again and killing people where she knows they absolutely deserve it.

[RainMaker]

Yeah I got a little pedophilia vibe too. Wasn't sure if that had been mentioned and I missed it or what.

[Groundhog]

I could've sworn there was a scene with him and a young boy or girl at some point earlier in the story? In either the show and/or books.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by whomario

Yes, but couldn´t he still love her even if it was not his child ? From all we know from the show Rhaegar was a real mensch in the eyes of a lot of people at least (which is why it was always weird to think of him kidnapping her and all that).

There's kidnapping and "kidnapping."

People like to think the best of those they love; if Lyanna, despite her betrothal to Robert, ran off with Rhaegar without a word to anybody or any warning that it was happening, nobody's going to go "oh, god, my sister is a faithless whore." They're going to go "RHAEGAR KIDNAPPED HER!!1one!"

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I could've sworn there was a scene with him and a young boy or girl at some point earlier in the story? In either the show and/or books.

I think so as well. If I'm remembering correctly it was Cersei who insinuated it just before the purple wedding. And then I also recall the occasional young kid usually being dismissed by him as happened in the season finale.