FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[EagleFan]

WTF?!?!?

Neighbor of Botham Jean who delivered testimony in Amber Guyger murder trial is shot dead | Daily Mail Online

[Thomkal]

crazy

[GrantDawg]

He was assassinated. It is unbelievably sad.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He was assassinated. It is unbelievably sad.

Yeah, shot in the mouth is an old mob execution for people who talk. I can't imagine that was random.

[Groundhog]

What a crazy coincidence and not at all a warning to future witnesses.

[tarcone]

Wow. Thats a serious allegation against the police. Not one I dont disbelieve, but you think they would be more subtle.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

What a crazy coincidence and not at all a warning to future witnesses.

Or maybe he was killed in a drug deal?

1 Arrested, 2 Wanted in Deadly Shooting of Guyger Trial Witness | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He was assassinated. It is unbelievably sad.

How much foil do you use in your hat?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Or maybe he was killed in a drug deal?

1 Arrested, 2 Wanted in Deadly Shooting of Guyger Trial Witness | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth

Seems to be a lot of weird holes in that story.

The drove 4 and a half hours to buy marijuana from Brown? No one buying marijuana is that committed. Who has a drug dealer that is 250 miles away?

[Groundhog]

What drug dealer (especially an unknown drug dealer at the time) is going to testify against police and draw more attention to himself? The whole story stinks.

[bhlloy]

Eh, if you execute somebody as the Dallas PD, you don't then arrest 3 people for it, and come up with some half cocked story about a 4 and a half hour drive to buy drugs when there's going to be a shit ton of circumstantial evidence and eye witnesses. You shoot one person so they can't testify at trial and then plant some evidence. The simplest explanation is the most likely one.

Of course nobody has mentioned the fact that he wasn't actually shot in the mouth and that was something that was just made up to stoke anger in the community against the police department.

[NobodyHere]

And if you want to execute a witness, shouldn't you do it BEFORE they testify?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Seems to be a lot of weird holes in that story.

The drove 4 and a half hours to buy marijuana from Brown? No one buying marijuana is that committed. Who has a drug dealer that is 250 miles away?

Originally Posted by Groundhog

What drug dealer (especially an unknown drug dealer at the time) is going to testify against police and draw more attention to himself? The whole story stinks.

You really think they were just buying ounce? Did you think that maybe Brown was serving as a middle man for a run from Mexico that involved a large volume of MJ and they were picking it up to take to the final destination? You do realize how common this scenario is across he US/Mexico border right? He may not have been a "full time" drug dealer, just did this on occasion for extra coin.

He may have been able to provide police details about the attackers before he died, saying he shot one, which would have led police to the wounded suspect.

It is really substantially less conceivable that they made this story up, than it is that this is some elaborate cover up crafted and carried out in a matter of days.

[Edward64]

See video starting at approx 1 min.

This is a tough one. My question would be did the cops know all the information about the kid then or did it come out after?

I assume it was then vs after as 3 internal reviews ruled it justified.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/us/fr...ger/index.html

Citing police statements, the father's lawsuit says that Murietta Golding was wanted for questioning in connection with a shooting one day earlier that had caused a fatal car crash. Fresno Police sought to question the teenager and pulled over a car in which he was a passenger, the lawsuit states.

The teenagers in the car initially complied with police. But Murietta Golding then took off running, the lawsuit states, leading to the fatal chase.

Fresno Police Chief Andrew Hall told CNN affiliate KSEE that the shooting was ruled justified by police's Internal Affairs Bureau, the Fresno County District Attorney's Office and the City of Fresno's Office of Independent Review.

"The use of lethal force in this case occurred while officers were investigating a homicide. The 16-year-old in this case was involved in the homicide with his brother and the brother was later arrested and pled guilty," Hall said.

"The (surveillance) video represents a different vantage point and was not what the pursuing officers could see. The 16-year-old was also known to carry firearms and had jumped a fence into a child daycare center."

[Radii]

The kid is sprinting in the opposite direction. That video proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the officers lives were not in immediate danger to justify lethal force in that moment.

When you say “this is a tough one”, two thoughts go through my head:

1) this is a tough one to see someone shot from behind while posing no threat, even with this kid being troubled it saddens me to think that anyone might think that somehow in this moment this kid deserved to lose his life and any chance at change.
2) the only way it could be a tough decision to figure out whether this shooting is justified is if you feel that running from the police justifies lethal force.


Another thought: I would be absolutely terrified to be anywhere near someone whose instinctual reaction to this moment was “good shot”

[NobodyHere]

I wonder how strong of evidence they have against the teen for the murder case.

I believe the Supreme Court has ruled in the past that a cop can shoot a suspect after they committed a violent felony even if there was no immediate threat to the officer. But I think that was a case where the cop witnesses the felony first hand. After all you can't let a murderer just run off into the night to repeat the act.

But to shoot a person you didn't personally witness committing the act, well the cop is probably boned unless there was a open and shut case and an APB out for the person.

[Edward64]

See video about 4 min point.

San Bernardino, California: Richard Sanchez Dropped His Gun, Put His Hands Up. Cop Shot Him 5 Times

Officers yelled at Richard Sanchez to drop his gun - and eventually, he did. He started to walk toward law enforcement, out of a house a relative had fled to call 911 to report Sanchez was intoxicated, making threats and saying irrational things.

Police shouted for the 27-year-old man to put his hands up. He did that, too.

"Stop!" an officer ordered. Sanchez kept walking, arms still raised.

Three seconds and two commands later, the officer opened fire. Body-camera footage now released by police in San Bernardino, California, captures the five shots that killed Sanchez and a woman's screams as he fell onto the lawn.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Radii

The kid is sprinting in the opposite direction. That video proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the officers lives were not in immediate danger to justify lethal force in that moment.

When you say “this is a tough one”, two thoughts go through my head:

1) this is a tough one to see someone shot from behind while posing no threat, even with this kid being troubled it saddens me to think that anyone might think that somehow in this moment this kid deserved to lose his life and any chance at change.
2) the only way it could be a tough decision to figure out whether this shooting is justified is if you feel that running from the police justifies lethal force.


Another thought: I would be absolutely terrified to be anywhere near someone whose instinctual reaction to this moment was “good shot”

I haven't watched the video, I don't know the specifics here beyond what's been posted here, and I generally don't trust police narratives, but you don't need to feel your life is in danger to justify lethal force. IF it's a known dangerous person & they're running towards civilians or a day care center...

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Edward64

See video about 4 min point.

San Bernardino, California: Richard Sanchez Dropped His Gun, Put His Hands Up. Cop Shot Him 5 Times

The title is Richard Sanchez dropped his gun, put his hands up, and the cop shot him 5 times. However, they said to stop and he kept on walking right at the cop. I would've done the same thing. When a cop tells you to stop, you stop. It's not really complicated. He looked really weird too, like he was on drugs or something.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Mota

The title is Richard Sanchez dropped his gun, put his hands up, and the cop shot him 5 times. However, they said to stop and he kept on walking right at the cop. I would've done the same thing. When a cop tells you to stop, you stop. It's not really complicated. He looked really weird too, like he was on drugs or something.

I'm sure cops are taught to shoot center mass but I do wonder in this situation they could have shot at his legs or taken out their tonfa (do they still have those?) and beat him down. The guy was pretty close, clearly not holding weapons in his hands, there were at least 2 cops etc.

I agree with you that the shooting seemed justified to me (although apparently not to the dept) but I think there could have been a little more restraint (5 shots seem excessive).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm sure cops are taught to shoot center mass but I do wonder in this situation they could have shot at his legs or taken out their tonfa (do they still have those?) and beat him down.

My cousin is a cop and we have had this discussion. They are trained to shoot center mass and to kill. Shooting is never used to try and incapacitate a subject. Every time I see something like this there is always someone on Twitter, etc...that says they should have shot the suspects knee,etc...and that just isn't realistic. It is too difficult an area to hit and you risk hitting an innocent bystander.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

My cousin is a cop and we have had this discussion. They are trained to shoot center mass and to kill. Shooting is never used to try and incapacitate a subject. Every time I see something like this there is always someone on Twitter, etc...that says they should have shot the suspects knee,etc...and that just isn't realistic. It is too difficult an area to hit and you risk hitting an innocent bystander.

Does your cousin think this was clearly a justified shoot and/or would he have handled it differently?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Does your cousin think this was clearly a justified shoot and/or would he have handled it differently?

I have no idea. We didn't talk about this specific incident. The conversation I referenced was quite a while ago.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Mota

..... like he was on drugs or something.

That was what made it ok for Rodney King too.

[Ben E Lou]

Well at least his son lived to tell the story...

DeSoto Texas police: Dallas officer shot son, thought he was intruder

[RainMaker]

Insane how these people aren't in jail.

NEWS: Graphic video appears to show Ahmaud Arbery, 25 of GA., whose family says he was out for a run, confronted by 2 men who shot him dead saying they thought he was a burglar. A prosecutor wants a grand jury to decide whether the men should be charged. pic.twitter.com/kEYYJW7UlM

— David Begnaud (@DavidBegnaud) May 5, 2020

[cuervo72]

So they basically ambushed him.

[miami_fan]

Nope, not getting involved with this one.

[larrymcg421]

Wow, that incident has made me madder than I've been in a long time. Such ridiculous bullshit. If the races were reversed, those guys would 100% be in jail.

[Arles]

That is horrible. It makes me sick.

[Lathum]

Not only should they be sitting in a jail cell but anyone who saw this video and chose not to prosecute should lose their jobs.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not only should they be sitting in a jail cell but anyone who saw this video and chose not to prosecute should lose their jobs.

100%, and if this video was not out there it would have been swept under the rug, which is more sickening than the act itself.

[kingfc22]

Fucking disgusting. Hang these fuckers from a tree because you know damn well they’d be looking to do the same damn thing.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Fucking disgusting. Hang these fuckers from a tree because you know damn well they’d be looking to do the same damn thing.

Aren't we supposed to "rehabilitate" them?

[stevew]

He’s certainly dressed like he was out for a run.

[molson]

Glad they were charged, but there are challenges in this case due to one of my most hated things in state criminal codes - citizen arrest statutes.

We don't know what their claimed probable cause was for the "arrest", specifically, but if they had that power, than its a much more difficult case. But I suspect there wasn't much there.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

Glad they were charged, but there are challenges in this case due to one of my most hated things in state criminal codes - citizen arrest statutes.

We don't know what their claimed probable cause was for the "arrest", specifically, but if they had that power, than its a much more difficult case. But I suspect there wasn't much there.

So you can shoot a guy in the back under certain situations?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So you can shoot a guy in the back under certain situations?

If the guy is fleeing a violent crime then yes police can anyways.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So you can shoot a guy in the back under certain situations?

It's always case-by-case, the statutes and caselaw usually aren't that specific, I'm just saying it's a completely different ballgame when there's a valid arrest power v. when there's not

Here, I'm very skeptical there was anything close to probable cause to implicate the victim in a crime. If there was, we haven't heard about it yet.

[NobodyHere]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/us/ah...els/index.html

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/us/ah...els/index.html "In the more than seven weeks preceding the shooting, there was only one burglary report in the neighborhood, said Glynn County police Lt. Cheri Bashlor. A 9 mm pistol was stolen January 1 from an unlocked truck outside the McMichaels' home, she said."

No series of break-ins. Only that these bozos had irresponsibility left a gun in an unlocked car, and someone stole it. Then a neighbor had some security footage of a man that he thought looked like the victim on his property and down at his dock. Nothing was stolen in that case. No report of a violent crime. No justification for a citizens arrest.

I guess the only thing close to a defense is that it looks like the victim grabbed the gun, and it was shots from the tussle that killed him. The fact that they didn't have a right to stop him or threaten him with a gun in the first place would make that defense useless.

[Ben E Lou]

Does a local DA down there wield so much power that she thought she'd get away with this, or is she being thrown under the bus because they now realize that *someone* is gonna have to go down?

Glynn County commissioner says DA blocked arrests after fatal shooting

[CrimsonFox]

Next phase is they get acquitted, then more riots, giving cops excuse to shoot more people...

[thesloppy]

The cycle of life!

[stevew]

The guy that filmed the confrontation was tracking the kid and working with the killers? Thats nuts. He must have realized felony murder was in his future

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by stevew

The guy that filmed the confrontation was tracking the kid and working with the killers? Thats nuts. He must have realized felony murder was in his future

wait the phone filmer was IN ON IT?!?!?!?

THAT"S SOOOOOOOOOO GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by stevew

The guy that filmed the confrontation was tracking the kid and working with the killers? Thats nuts. He must have realized felony murder was in his future

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

wait the phone filmer was IN ON IT?!?!?!?

THAT"S SOOOOOOOOOO GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched the GBI presser today. (Short, roughly 20 minutes including Q&A.) The Director confirmed that they're not done, and that the guy who filmed it is being investigated.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola...

The rumor is it that his job was to help box Arbery in. There’s the sound of what may be him cocking his gun in the video.

[CrimsonFox]

I must admit I was very confused by the recording. I did not really see what was going on nor was I for certain what shots hit. But it did occur to me I wasn't sure how/why the movie existed and who was taking it. And why they just sat there. And why the 2 guys didn't care someone was watching them...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I must admit I was very confused by the recording. I did not really see what was going on nor was I for certain what shots hit. But it did occur to me I wasn't sure how/why the movie existed and who was taking it. And why they just sat there. And why the 2 guys didn't care someone was watching them...

Yeah it makes more sense now. If I was a random person in a car pulling up on that I would high tail out of there.