Yet another school shooting.

[RainMaker]

Normal country.

Tonight on @wbaltv11: A man with an AR-15 has been showing up for weeks to a school bus drop off for local elementary school students.
Parents say their kids are afraid, the man says he’s protesting @GovWesMoore’s new gun control law. You’ll hear from both sides at 5+6pm. pic.twitter.com/rpdJXAkVh4

— Tolly Taylor (@TollyTaylor) May 18, 2023

[sterlingice]

"Both sides"


SI

[Atocep]

I'm going to frighten elementary school children because someone isn't going to let me have guns near school children starting October 1st.

[RainMaker]

We'll listen to the terrified kids who don't want to be sliced in half with an AR-15 followed by the weird guy stalking kids with a rifle. Tune in at 5 and 6pm.

[CrimsonFox]

come on guys, i'm disappointed. When I see this thread updated I don't want general chatter. I want the new hi score listed for the AR15 club

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

come on guys, i'm disappointed. When I see this thread updated I don't want general chatter. I want the new hi score listed for the AR15 club

Give it time

[Kodos]

The guys who first suggested that owning guns was a right really fucked us over.

[flere-imsaho]

Those guys clearly said it in the context of having maintained and regulated militias should a) the British invade again or b) the federal government prove too domineering over state governments (thus the "militia" would have been in a state government context).

The 2nd amendment is completely irrelevant in the 21st century, and also was in the 20th.

[Edward64]

You'd think the cops could do something about it like "public nuisance" or "loitering".

Same thing applies if there was a guy hanging around a school drop off, for multiple days without a weapon.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Kodos

The guys who first suggested that owning guns was a right really fucked us over.

I think we can generally agree the first organism that pulled it self out of the ocean started this whole mess.

[RainMaker]

CNN has a 1 year special on Uvalde on right now. They've gotten some footage that authorities are still keeping from the public as part of their cover-up. Showed the girl who covered herself in her friends blood to act dead. It's really brutal.

Authorities have still not done the honorable thing a year later.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think we can generally agree the first organism that pulled it self out of the ocean started this whole mess.

sure....it's always the Ichthyostega's fault!

[RainMaker]

Our first story on Khloie Torres the little girl seen covered in blood in the #wholestory episode Sunday night.

10-year-old trapped with the Uvalde school shooter repeatedly called 911 for help. #uvalde
https://t.co/vUNGXe3599

— Shimon Prokupecz (@ShimonPro) May 22, 2023

[Edward64]

Yeah ... no.

I can maybe see considering a release hearing in 2043 after 20+ years of exemplary conduct, but not now.

https://apnews.com/article/townville...fb9be6caed4bd9

A school shooter serving a life sentence without parole for killing a first grader on a South Carolina playground when he was 14 is asking a judge to lessen his sentence so he can eventually get out of prison.

Jesse Osborne’s lawyer asked Judge Lawton McIntosh on Monday to reconsider his sentence so Osborne, now 21, could have some hope of freedom in his 50s or 60s.

Attorney Frank Eppes said the judge didn’t fully consider a psychologist’s report that Osborne’s lashed out because of abuse and can be rehabilitated.

“Give Jesse some hope to live with,” Eppes said at a televised court hearing.

[Lathum]

I prefer he ride the lightening.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah ... no.

I can maybe see considering a release hearing in 2043 after 20+ years of exemplary conduct, but not now.

https://apnews.com/article/townville...fb9be6caed4bd9

Ummmmm...that is exactly what was being asked here. They wanted to change the sentence so he would at least have a possibility of parole when he was 50-60 years old. He is 21 now, so that would be like 2053 or so.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Ummmmm...that is exactly what was being asked here. They wanted to change the sentence so he would at least have a possibility of parole when he was 50-60 years old. He is 21 now, so that would be like 2053 or so.

I think what Edward was saying is now isn't the time to consider it but maybe 20 years down the road they can start thinking about it.

Like I said. 20 years from now I would prefer he be in the ground.

[Edward64]

They are asking for

Jesse Osborne’s lawyer asked Judge Lawton McIntosh on Monday to reconsider his sentence (now) so Osborne , now 21, could have some hope of freedom in his 50s or 60s.

I'm saying don't even consider it at all. Wait till 2043, see if he's been model inmate, and then possibly hold the hearing to consider it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think what Edward was saying is now isn't the time to consider it but maybe 20 years down the road they can start thinking about it.

Like I said. 20 years from now I would prefer he be in the ground.

Yeah, what the man said.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I prefer he ride the lightening.

Same, I never get this angle to give him hope that he can be free some day. That child he killed had hope of a future too, take his for what he took.

One thing I am definitely 100% on board with is not giving murderers room and board for 30, 40, 50 years. Capitol punishment should be nationwide and carried out within 5 years of the sentence IMO.

[miami_fan]

I am not saying he should have done it, but I understand.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/video...ndgun-atm-user

It is rare for me to go to a brick and mortar bank nowadays for any reason. However since I became an adult, I don't think I have ever used the ATM machine for anything else than to check my balance or withdraw money. I definitely not done so at the drive thru ATM. To me, the ATM is like the 10 item or less line at the grocery store. Make a quick transaction and get going. If you have to fill out your deposit slip, drive around and let others use the machine while you are doing so.

Oh yeah, add this to the list of things you could get a semi-automatic handgun. Plus don't lump the bald men community and the men with tattoos in with this guy. Find some other descriptor for him.

[GrantDawg]

We shouldn't excute anybody, much less children. I know lots of people wish were more like Iran, the only country in the world that will sentence people under 18 to death, but maybe we should be a little more enlightened than that?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[stevew]

Was watching an SVU the other day and they had some elaborate speech about the guy getting a needle in the arm. Except at that point it was something like 37 years since the last execution in NY and in 2004ish it was outlawed altogether.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am not saying he should have done it, but I understand.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/video...ndgun-atm-user

It is rare for me to go to a brick and mortar bank nowadays for any reason. However since I became an adult, I don't think I have ever used the ATM machine for anything else than to check my balance or withdraw money. I definitely not done so at the drive thru ATM. To me, the ATM is like the 10 item or less line at the grocery store. Make a quick transaction and get going. If you have to fill out your deposit slip, drive around and let others use the machine while you are doing so.

Oh yeah, add this to the list of things you could get a semi-automatic handgun. Plus don't lump the bald men community and the men with tattoos in with this guy. Find some other descriptor for him.

Looks like David Harbour in Stranger Things 4

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

We shouldn't excute anybody, much less children. I know lots of people wish were more like Iran, the only country in the world that will sentence people under 18 to death, but maybe we should be a little more enlightened than that?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

We should also be more enlightened than letting violent criminals out of prison early, or reducing the bond of violent criminals so they can exact revenge on people that got them arrested, or hurt other innocents.

I would think protecting children, women and others that can't always protect themselves would take precedent over sparing the life of violent sociopaths.

And in reference to executing children, which is what that shooter did, I realize kids under 18 will not be sentenced to death, which I actually agree with, despite my comment, they also shouldn't be given a chance at early release so they have 'hope' either after destroying an innocent family.

[GrantDawg]

Seven people were shot on Hollywood Beach in Florida. DeSantis blaming it on woke in 3, 2, 1....

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Normal country.

Tonight on @wbaltv11: A man with an AR-15 has been showing up for weeks to a school bus drop off for local elementary school students.
Parents say their kids are afraid, the man says he’s protesting @GovWesMoore’s new gun control law. You’ll hear from both sides at 5+6pm. pic.twitter.com/rpdJXAkVh4

— Tolly Taylor (@TollyTaylor) May 18, 2023

Have been in the room with local authorities trying to sort out what they can and cannot do about this. It is not a simple situation.

[cuervo72]

There was some guy in TN doing much the same but in a red ninja costume. If laws say you can do that, no, there's not going to be a simple way of stopping it, I reckon.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Have been in the room with local authorities trying to sort out what they can and cannot do about this. It is not a simple situation.

It would be if he were black.

[cuervo72]

This particular guy is black.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Have been in the room with local authorities trying to sort out what they can and cannot do about this. It is not a simple situation.

That's called a threat with a deadly weapon.

[albionmoonlight]

https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/212835pen.pdf

En banc Third Circuit strikes down a felon-in-possession prosecution. The opinion claims to be narrow, but some folks I know who know a lot more about the in and outs of this than I do think that it is actually pretty broad in its reasoning.

Strong probability that this gets to the Supreme Court.

[CrimsonFox]

https://apnews.com/article/vcu-shoot...31354a4e4157ab

Graduation shooting

[RainMaker]

Another lead infested boomer losing his mind.

Florida man faces charges after confronting driver with gun for backing up into driveway - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Another lead infested boomer losing his mind.

Florida man faces charges after confronting driver with gun for backing up into driveway - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale

The driver has to come back and kill that guy at some point right? Or at the very least the male members of her family do something to that guy to let him know that is not acceptable right? I mean we are supposed to returning to the good ol' days when men were men. Point a gun a woman's head in the middle of the road? In the good ol' days, the guy is in the jail house for his protection.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The driver has to come back and kill that guy at some point right? Or at the very least the male members of her family do something to that guy to let him know that is not acceptable right? I mean we are supposed to returning to the good ol' days when men were men. Point a gun a woman's head in the middle of the road? In the good ol' days, the guy is in the jail house for his protection.

I know this is tongue in cheek, but in all seriousness, what is emboldening these people is that the entirety of society does not live under the same worldview as they do, and they know it. Back in the 1850s, yes, that's exactly what would happen. But I don't own a gun and am not interested in violence. I think the calculus is that most of "those people" they are confronting aren't going to level up, so they are free to be the bully.

It seems to me that there are two options: (1) get LE involved, and (2) publicly out the fuckers so they are shamed and perhaps lose their jobs. I know people cringe about how we've overdone #2 in this country thanks to social media, but it's really a substitute for lack of LE doing their jobs (either to protect the fuckers or due to weak laws/unwilling prosecutors) and a proxy for the old west way we used to go about getting revenge. Everyone can talk about someone having a bad moment that shouldn't ruin their lives, but 150 years ago, that "bad moment" got you killed.

[PilotMan]

It's not like LE tracks down and deals with 100% of law breakers. It only sets the table for the select enforcement that we have today. And I don't mean, sample enforcement, like where you have sobriety checkpoints to catch people instead of catching every single one either. It's one guy decides that "A" is a crime and puts the effort in to enforce it and another one decides it isn't. Or like how they determine just how much loss is necessary in order to follow up on an actual crime. All of that sets the table for unreliable, and not very useful LE. Which only makes option 2 one of the only real options to hold people accountable.

[albionmoonlight]

I remember someone saying once that TV gives us a very skewed view of LE investigations. Solving a mystery makes for good TV, so we watch the detectives over 40 minutes interviewing witnesses and checking bank records and going over the crime scene with tweezers, etc. and then the detective makes some awesome leap of logic and figures out who did it.

In reality, in the vast majority of murders/attempted murders/violent assaults you either have eyewitnesses who can tell LE who did it or it's the angry boyfriend/husband. That's what LE does--they see if anyone saw the crime, and if not, they check on the boyfriend. And that works most of the time.

But if it is neither of those two circumstances, then the case tends to go cold.

All of which is to say that LE is necessary and important, but people expect it to be able to do more than it is really designed to do.

[HerRealName]

The current system isn't a bug, it's just another example of the bias built into the justice system. There's discretion built into every step of the process for a reason.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I remember someone saying once that TV gives us a very skewed view of LE investigations. Solving a mystery makes for good TV, so we watch the detectives over 40 minutes interviewing witnesses and checking bank records and going over the crime scene with tweezers, etc. and then the detective makes some awesome leap of logic and figures out who did it.

In reality, in the vast majority of murders/attempted murders/violent assaults you either have eyewitnesses who can tell LE who did it or it's the angry boyfriend/husband. That's what LE does--they see if anyone saw the crime, and if not, they check on the boyfriend. And that works most of the time.

But if it is neither of those two circumstances, then the case tends to go cold.

All of which is to say that LE is necessary and important, but people expect it to be able to do more than it is really designed to do.

It's amazing watching some of these cold case shows. Team swoops in 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years after the fact. Reopen the case, and have the same very small list of suspects. And yeah, 95% of the time it is a relative, boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, or "random intruder." Ok, one time it was "girl was drunk, got her car stuck in the mud, fire started inside the car and she couldn't get out." But that was a weird outlier. Almost inevitably they rule out the random intruder, and they're back to the most obvious suspect.

BUT -- the crime scene wasn't adequately investigated. Or someone disturbed or even cleaned up the crime scene. Or evidence went missing or was destroyed. The cops waited for ages to talk to anyone. The cops were really only qualified to make traffic stops or were otherwise inept. The cops didn't want to be bothered.

Or, they can't find enough evidence (no body, no DNA, no weapon) and nobody will talk. It seems like half the time they only make progress because someone broke down and finally talked.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Another lead infested boomer losing his mind.

Florida man faces charges after confronting driver with gun for backing up into driveway - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale

Vetsch faces a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to kill. At his first appearance in court the next day, he was ordered to have no contact with the victim and was granted a $50,000 bond.

It's weird to me that you can point a gun directly at someone within 2 inches of their head and get a charge that specially states without intent to kill. Maybe that's just me though.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

It's weird to me that you can point a gun directly at someone within 2 inches of their head and get a charge that specially states without intent to kill. Maybe that's just me though.

For an intent element you have to prove that the event would have occurred if not for some intervening circumstance, or failure on the defendant's part. Like they shoot and miss, or shoot the person in the chest but they don't die.

Pointing a gun at someone is classic aggravated assault.

Edit: Pointing a gun at someone over something so innocuous is a pretty big aggravating factor though. It shows that someone is very dangerous and that it probably wouldn't take much more for them to take the next step and intend to kill.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

For an intent element you have to prove that the event would have occurred if not for some intervening circumstance, or failure on the defendant's part. Like they shoot and miss, or shoot the person in the chest but they don't die.

Pointing a gun at someone is classic aggravated assault.

Edit: Pointing a gun at someone over something so innocuous is a pretty big aggravating factor though. It shows that someone is very dangerous and that it probably wouldn't take much more for them to take the next step and intend to kill.

I get it from a legal standpoint. I just think that you don't pull a gun and point it at someone's head unless there's some intent to kill and our laws should reflect that.

It's just one of the many weird things with our society, guns, and laws.

[Atocep]

I can only imagine how often this is happening and not being reported or making the news.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I get it from a legal standpoint. I just think that you don't pull a gun and point it at someone's head unless there's some intent to kill and our laws should reflect that.

It's just one of the many weird things with our society, guns, and laws.

It's ultimately just the name of a charge given in a statute. In a lot of states, an aggravated assault charge, maybe with a firearm sentencing enhancement, can have a similar sentencing range as attempted murder. And you know the judge will sentence similarly because they're sentencing based on the conduct and the criminal history, etc., not what the name of the charge is. And aggravated assault is a lot easier to prove.

Judges almost always have the authority and law to sentence aggravated assaulters to decades, and, if we want that, the way to get it is.....the dreaded statutory mandatory minimum sentences.

[NobodyHere]

This should be an interesting trial.

Parkland shooting: Opening statements begin in trial of Scot Peterson, school resource officer who stayed outside during massacre | CNN

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I can only imagine how often this is happening and not being reported or making the news.

Definitely. There's a lot of people who will never report anything, which probably contributes to normalizing that kind of conduct, and also lesser sentences for people when they finally are caught. The "no criminal record" people that most definitely are comfortable pointing guns at people and have probably done it before. So at sentencing he gets to be the "nice guy who had a bad day" and has probably has CTE from high school football and he volunteers at the soup kitchen, and he's in therapy and has quit drinking.

And the making the news thing is always fascinating to me. There are choices made about what the news reports and how they do it. Some murders become Dateline episodes, and some (even cases with crazy facts) get no or almost news coverage at all. And I don't know how much of that is the choice of news reporters, or if there's mechanisms that push certain cases to a higher status on social media.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by molson

And the making the news thing is always fascinating to me. There are choices made about what the news reports and how they do it. Some murders become Dateline episodes, and some (even cases with crazy facts) get no or almost news coverage at all. And I don't know how much of that is the choice of news reporters, or if there's mechanisms that push certain cases to a higher status on social media.

Remember a while back when all the missing white girl stories made national news? I remember seeing people posting missing girls on social media and saying "please help us make this go national!"

Which is crazy that the decision of what to publish and not publish (which really might be the difference between the kid being found or not) is so arbitrary.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Remember a while back when all the missing white girl stories made national news? I remember seeing people posting missing girls on social media and saying "please help us make this go national!"

Which is crazy that the decision of what to publish and not publish (which really might be the difference between the kid being found or not) is so arbitrary.

[molson]

I think a big part of it is whatever will make people most angry, and which will divide the most people, which will make them more engaged.

So, cases with victims who share traits with the majority audience, any kind of racial component, anything with an arguable self-defense component, or anything where the investigation did not go smoothly in some way or was perceived not to go smoothly, and of course, anything with someone famous or who worked in law enforcement or politics as the defendant. So these cases disproportionally inform the public's view of the criminal justice system.