Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

It seems like a bad decision from the TNA Wrestling school of thinking ... On the other hand, it's probably true that a trainwreck with familiar names will still draw more viewers than potentially quality third-tier fighters that nobody knows

If you wanted to extend the metaphor a bit further, that could almost be TNA vs ROH.

*although given the way that ROH is buried in overnights & other horrible timeslots on most affiliates, it might not be entirely fair to them to say that. They're basically not given much of a chance aside from whatever DVR viewing they can manage.

[EagleFan]

I find it amusing how the announcers were talking about the fighter "Setting the record for submission attempts in a fight" like it was a good thing. He didn't win the fight by submission which means he just set a record of futility. It's actually more of a record for the other fighter as the most submission attempts escaped/survived in a fight.

[PilotMan]

Finally got to watch last nights show this morning. I don't think you ever want the guy who just won the title to be the most surprised guy in the room at the decision. Gotta give it to Newton again. McGeary has the look of a badass and was all over him early and he found a way out and a way to survive. Newton is that guy you want to cheer for, don't want to fight or have to promote. His fights are just something else.

[Solecismic]

I don't go in for the PPV because I don't know the fighters, but I've seen the gif of tonight's main event a few times. I've never seen two such difficult and precise athletic moves in succession like that. Rousey has a knowledge of body control that's beyond anything I've seen in sport. To think up those moves and execute them while someone's trying to take your head off... crazy stuff. I don't know judo, either, but that can't be something you're taught. People want to see her versus Cyborg, but I think she's well beyond that right now.

[PilotMan]

Didn't see the fight, but judging from what you've said I assume she defended fine. I would have said Zigano could have really challenged her back when they were first supposed to fight and before she got hurt but you're right. Rousey has elevated faster than any other female fighter and when she was already the best. She used to have holes in her game, but her quality in the last 2 fights is insane. Her evolution is far beyond every other female fighter. I don't think Cyborg would be able to handle her either.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I guess Gleison Tibau is stepping in to face Tony Ferguson at 184. I'm actually excited about this fight. Tibau has been a hard, hard fight for the last couple of years now and Ferguson, while being injured a lot, is still massively talented and rising.

Tony Ferguson def. Gleison Tibau via submission (rear-naked choke) at 2:37, R1

I'd love to see this. Tibau is a tough motherfucker. Ferguson is clearly on path to get a title shot with a couple more wins. So damn talented.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Didn't see the fight, but judging from what you've said I assume she defended fine.

It fits in one instagram video

https://instagram.com/p/zrEX9ILHLn/

[PilotMan]

Granted Rousey is good, but that was inexperience and technique that made it look so much more dominating. With women's MMA being further behind in terms of the development of the fighters you are seeing some fights that resemble the good ol days of MMA.

One of the more recent knocks on modern MMA is that the fights are more boring, when really they are more technical and the quality that separates guys is much smaller. That's not the case in the women's side. You have 1, well rounded, dominating force and a bunch of good and game fighters who are the JV compared to Rousey. Rousey genuinely looked surprised to find herself in that position and knew just what she needed to do to finish it.

So that fight boiled down to inexperience and planning problems for Zigano and far superior technique from Rousey. She might as well retire and go into the movies. I think she'll make far more money that route than dominating the UFC women's division for the next 6-8 years until the quality of fighter comes up and she starts to get old.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

She might as well retire and go into the movies.

This almost has to be her next step, right? I mean her average fight length is like 18 seconds or something.

Actually, I looked it up. She's 11-0 and has had exactly three fights that lasted longer than 1:06. Only one fight has gotten out of the first round. Her average fight length is 2:16.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

This almost has to be her next step, right? I mean her average fight length is like 18 seconds or something.

Actually, I looked it up. She's 11-0 and has had exactly three fights that lasted longer than 1:06. Only one fight has gotten out of the first round. Her average fight length is 2:16.

Two thoughts that support this. First, she went to Zigano and offered her a rematch just after the fight. I think this shows that she knows that there just isn't anyone in the division that even comes close to giving her a fight. And second, reportedly she negotiated with Dana to do a movie before she fights again. The writing is on the wall here, but as long as she can do this part time why retire?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Granted Rousey is good

good...lol

[molson]

I wish Rousey would fight Cyborg at 140, though, she certainly has a point that Cyborg's the one who 'roids and thus the burden should on her to come down in weight. I don't know if it would be a competitive fight for Rousey or not, but I'd hate to see anything left on the table at all in her MMA career. Though I can't believe they were apparently super-close to signing Gina Carano to fight Rousey.

And I don't know if Rousey's a bankable movie star on her own. I don't know why it's so assumed that she is. She's making a huge living fighting twice a year, with the associated endorsements, and with a small movie role here and there. I think the dynamic changes if she goes 100% Hollywood and there's no guarantee she can pull that off. I mean, who has? Other than the Rock if you want to count him. I know Carano is a full-time actress now but I'm not sure if that's by choice or if there was health considerations. And she's hardly a movie star and I doubt she makes what Rousey does now.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

I wish Rousey would fight Cyborg at 140, though, she certainly has a point that Cyborg's the one who 'roids and thus the burden should on her to come down in weight. I don't know if it would be a competitive fight for Rousey or not, but I'd hate to see anything left on the table at all in her MMA career. .

I don't think they want Cyborg right now, though as much as Rousey has improved in her standup I would actually favor her over Cyborg, which was not the case a year ago. Lost in this is that Rousey fought at 145 when she began, so a catchweight bout at 140 would be doable if her and Dana really wanted it.

Holm is nowhere near ready and never will be as Rousey would overpower her quickly on the ground, Carano would not even be competitive and Eyes is tough, but again, different levels. Zingano was the best bet and would do better in a rematch, but she has to fight smarter.

Cyborg is the only fight that makes sense from a true competitive standpoint, everything else is really just glorified sparring and Dana keeping the gravy train going. It's just about business at this point.

[molson]

I read a debate today about whether Rousey could beat the top 10 challengers in one day if you gave her some time to rest between fights.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by molson

I read a debate today about whether Rousey could beat the top 10 challengers in one day if you gave her some time to rest between fights.

But how many three-year-olds at once?

I think there's some tape hound in her, from what she says. She believes in significant prep-work, fighting on a schedule, surrounding herself with trainers she believes in. She needs everything falling into place in order.

But she's also light years ahead of any challenger. Could Zingano beat her in ten fights? There's always a chance she could land something. Probably a higher chance with Cyborg, who I don't think even knows what a submission move is. Zero chance with most of the contenders - it's probably bad for UFC even to try. I think a rematch with Zingano late this year is likely.

Cyborg probably scares her for real - she made Carano look like a dilettante and drove her into acting full-time. Rousey idolizes Carano, though she knows Carano was more a pioneer than a great fighter.

It's the only half-way legitimate title fight possible, and I still wouldn't bet against Rousey. Women's MMA is still very early on. These are serious, talented athletes, but there's no depth.

[CU Tiger]

Last night was just about the worst possible scenario for Dana.

No one can challenge Ronda right now. They are probably going to feed us Rousey - Tate II....but now that Ronda has stepped her striking game up that will not be nearly the fight the first one was.

I honestly think if it stays a slug fest Cat can give Ronda a run...but its hard to sell to the casual fan a rematch after the fastest title match in history and the fastest tap of all time in any match.

Was interesting listening to Cat in the ring. Beside the repeated F bombs...she almost went down the road of saying she didnt tap. Then thought better of it and said "Good fight"

[molson]

Dana seemed to say that Rousey would get the winner of Bethe Correia and Jessica Eye. And then maybe she'll get the winner of a Tate v. Cat fight, or something.

I don't think either matchup with hurt Rousey's appeal or damage buyrates. I don't get the doom and gloom. She wouldn't be nearly as special this morning if she had lost. Let her headline a card with a solid co-main and her PPVs will be the hottest non-Jon Jones PPVs in the company. She's in that Mike Tyson zone as a must-see attraction (and not the Bill Simmons kind of "Mike Tyson zone".) I don't think her popularity depends on people believing that she's going to lose. People want to see her dominate and kick ass. There's no way things would be better for the UFC if the the belt was being traded around by these inter-changeable female contenders. Star power sells PPVs.

[Mota]

Just as UFC keeps heading towards Pro Wrestling, I think that Pro Wrestling should head more towards MMA. A fight in UFC usually means something. People move up and down. When someone is well past their prime, they move out and make room for an up and comer.

Star power does sell PPV. I think that UFC is actually doing Pro Wrestling better than WWE is these days. I've actually been paying more attention to UFC than WWE because of that, and UFC doesn't even have the luxury of booking their own finishes.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Was interesting listening to Cat in the ring. Beside the repeated F bombs...she almost went down the road of saying she didnt tap. Then thought better of it and said "Good fight"

Yeah, I saw that, too. Glad she didn't do that. Would have been a mess.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Finally got to watch last nights show this morning. I don't think you ever want the guy who just won the title to be the most surprised guy in the room at the decision.

I thought that was great, in a funny as hell kind of way. I was waiting for him to turn the announcer and say "Really????".

[saldana]

Originally Posted by molson

Dana seemed to say that Rousey would get the winner of Bethe Correia and Jessica Eye. And then maybe she'll get the winner of a Tate v. Cat fight, or something.

all the talking this morning is about whether Cyborg can cut weight to get down to Ronda's 135...apparently Invictus and UFC have some kind of agreement that would allow for a cross promotional fight, that would include the title.

[PilotMan]

I think the UFC has the right to purchase any of the fighters at Invicta like they did for the Ultimate Fighter show. Invicta airs their shows on Fight Pass as well. The UFC actually negotiated Cyborg's contract with Invicta even though Invicta is the one paying the fighter.

[thesloppy]

Just paging through the future UFC schedule, and I rarely get excited for a card anymore, but 185 has some appeal, and down the road 187 is a hell of a card. Crossing my fingers for no injuries/drugs/whatevs.

[EagleFan]

Think I have a favorite UFC female fighter now...

[Chief Rum]

There's a lot of smoke to this Jon Jones hit and run thing.

[PilotMan]

Stripped and suspended indefinitely. The UFC has another major fiasco to deal with and another main event effected less than a month away.

[SegRat]

UFC did the right thing.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by SegRat

UFC did the right thing.

totally agree...the NFL should be taking notes

[Chief Rum]

And for once, the fight shifted to--DC versus Rumble for the belt--ain't half bad.

[Mota]

Jones is a pretty low quality guy. He hits and injures a pregnant woman and runs away?

And then he disappears for 48 hours until the drugs / alcohol in his system run out. Nice job buddy, we couldn't figure that out.

[PilotMan]

Yeah, I think that part was pretty obvious. Along a similar vein but not MMA, I loved Iron Mike's comments about not dealing with dirt when talking about Mayweather. Not that he is one to talk but at least he recognized what he was and where he came from and that he isn't that person any more.

[PilotMan]

That fight was astounding.

[PilotMan]

Damn, 2 title matches that were pretty good. An incredible round of heavyweight fighting and Cerrone and no comments? I thought it was the best card of the last 12 months, easy.

[thesloppy]

I thought it was fun, but I was still a little disappointed with both title fights, and the cowboy fight made me cringe. That said, Arlovski/Browne was obviously a ton of fun, and I can't necessarily argue that it was the best card of the past 12 months.

[EagleFan]

Gave up ordering the events, they haven't been worth it when I make the jump and get them.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Gave up ordering the events, they haven't been worth it when I make the jump and get them.

I meet up with friends and watch it at a place we can get food and drinks, make it more of an event. That makes is more worth it, even if the card sucks (and this card was very good).

[PilotMan]

Yes, I agree, finding alternative methods rather than getting them at home is the better option.

[CU Tiger]

I am a mixed bag beetween renting at home or going to bw3s or similar.
This time I was out of town and on a fishing trip with my son so we didnt get to watch at all.

[thesloppy]

I am amazed that anybody buys the PPVs at home....I suppose it makes a big difference that I'm just a single dude, as even one more person watching would make it easier to justify. Spending $50 to watch the level of MMA that the UFC has been putting forward seems like mental illness. I've always wondered if they could've better profited better with just a plain lower cost, some sort of split residential/commercial tiering, or a TOTAL subscription model ($50/month for all events, rather than an ADDITIONAL subscription model like Fight Pass).

[thesloppy]

Great fights tonight! Not many names or hype outside of Hendo, but that was probably the best card of the last 3 years, in terms of action and finishes.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Great fights tonight! Not many names or hype outside of Hendo, but that was probably the best card of the last 3 years, in terms of action and finishes.

That Ortega-Tavares fight was great. I don't think I've ever seen a worse, more bloody cut during a fight, especially one that didn't stop it.

[cartman]

Werdum beat the crap out of Velasquez

[molson]

The Bellator show was just as entertaining as I thought it'd be. You had Bobby Lashley - all-world at taking guys down, but he seems to have no idea how to do submissions once he's there. But that doesn't matter if he can just take down a guy 20 times in a round and a half. Then Slice/Shamrock. It was a terrible fight, and also very entertaining. There's a lot of speculation that it was fixed. Shamrock executed the slowest single-leg takedown in the history of MMA, and took down Slice easily. Shamrock then got a rear naked choke which looked tight - but it couldn't possibly have been because Slice was in it for 45 seconds without tapping or going out. And on closer look, from some angles, it looked more like a pro wrestling sleeper hold and that Ken wasn't really tightening it. Then one Kimbo punch and its over.

Streamable - simple video sharing

I don't think it was fixed because I don't see why it would be so critically important to Bellator for Kimbo to win. This wasn't Elite XC, everyone knows Kimbo is a sideshow, he'll probably fight Herschel Walker or something next.

But anyway, I'm loving Bellator as the spiritual successor to PRIDE, it's a really fun alternative right now. I want to see Lashley fight someone just a little better, he's getting up there and he's destroyed tomato can after tomato can very easily. Lashley/Slice might be a good spectacle but Slice has zero takedown defense and no wrestling ability so I think it would just be Lashley throwing him around over and over again.

[dubb93]

I don't think it was fixed. I think Big John went in with the goal of not allowing Ken to get REALLY hurt. The last we needed was for Ken Shamrock to take about 10 more punches to the head than he needed to at this point in his career.

[Solecismic]

When you have a 51-year-old against a 40-year-old, all bets are off. We're not used to seeing fighters so far past their prime that they're no longer capable of the basic skills highly trained fighters bring. I think Shamrock was so tired after one minute he was simply incapable of proper technique on the rnc.

Also, we're not used to seeing anything less than top-notch competition. Slice was always a work in progress. Freakishly strong, but never a technique guy.

I don't think it was fixed. Neither do I think either one would last a minute against any of the fighters who would usually be on a card these days. There was nothing fake about those shots Shamrock took at the end. He simply lacks the speed to avoid a punch at 51, and the referee stepped in exactly when he should have.

[bhlloy]

Not too impressed that the UFC is still airing Aldo vs McGregor ads and promoting it all over DirectTV - given that they've known for over a week the fight was unlikely to take place and for a couple of days it definitely wouldn't be taking place, surely they've had plenty of time to cut new commercials by now.

[cartman]

This Lawler-MacDonald undercard fight is awesome. Both guys are beating the crap out of each other. Going into the 5th round right now.

[cartman]

Lawler retains his title with a TKO in the 5th. Both guys are gonna be feeling it tomorrow. Looks like MacDonald got his nose shattered on the TKO punch.

[PilotMan]

Mendes will win tonight. Pretty good night of fights so far.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Not too impressed that the UFC is still airing Aldo vs McGregor ads and promoting it all over DirectTV - given that they've known for over a week the fight was unlikely to take place and for a couple of days it definitely wouldn't be taking place, surely they've had plenty of time to cut new commercials by now.

Getting a new spot done is probably 2 days minimum. It can be done quicker of course but rarely is rushed that hard.

And these days the bigger challenge is getting the airing station (network, whatever) to properly change out the spot. That's going to be 2 days minimum and often more (especially if they hold to their standard of 7 day minimum for approval)

edit to add: And IIRC Dish standard is 14 days minimum.