COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[whomario]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Damn.

Ugh ... Actually send a worried friend (who has way too many cats and works in physical therapy so plenty close contact) a link on a small study on this that concluded it was unlikely in normal interaction ... But that now seems less certain, eh ...


Cats Can Get Coronavirus, Study Suggests--But Pet Owners Need Not Panic - Scientific American

[whomario]

Bit of a worrisome trend is that the UK still seems to test the bare minimun. 48% of analysed tests (5900 of 12000 roughly) came back positive after about 40% the last 5 days, indicates they are likely only able to test pretty much exclusively those with noticeable symptoms at best.
Even Italy was never much above 30% for a single day (and has been steadily dropping, onl, 13% today out of 35k tests)

[CrimsonFox]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/05/tige...3cdIyqFxos__2Y

It can be passed between humans and animals back and forth now

[whomario]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/05/tige...3cdIyqFxos__2Y

It can be passed between humans and animals back and forth now

Apparently has been known to happen before and not even super unique to this virus, plenty of germs you can get from a pet and vice versa. Unless it ends up happening a ton now i wouldnt loose sleep over it.

Questions and Answers on the COVID-19: OIE - World Organisation for Animal Health

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...g/animals.html

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

I generally avoid Facebook but this was the first thing I saw this morning:

That is the dumbest shit I have seen in my life and I have seen a lot of dumb shit.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Damn.

Am I the only who thought that there aren't enough tests to go around for humans, yet we have one for a tiger?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Am I the only who thought that there aren't enough tests to go around for humans, yet we have one for a tiger?

Tigers and millionaires. Gotta keep your priorities straight.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/05/tige...3cdIyqFxos__2Y

It can be passed between humans and animals back and forth now

I, for one, find that socially distancing myself from tigers is a good plan so I will do my part in this one.

SI

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

That is the dumbest shit I have seen in my life and I have seen a lot of dumb shit.

We also have "citizen reporters" that are selectively going to hospitals, sitting outside to record, and questioning people to frame this whole thing as an overblown hoax.


EDIT: 5G cell towers are being torched because facebook claims they're spreading coronavirus. This is shining a giant spotlight on the stupid of humanity.

[JPhillips]

Pat Robertson has discovered the cause of coronavirus... cunnilingus.

Honest to God.

[miami_fan]

I know I am Captain Obvious, I am still stunned by the number of people that have these underlying issues outside of what the virus could do to people with the issues. Is it possible that people with underlying issues outnumber the people without underlying issues?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Pat Robertson has discovered the cause of coronavirus... cunnilingus.

Honest to God.

Well shit, I am immune then

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I know I am Captain Obvious, I am still stunned by the number of people that have these underlying issues outside of what the virus could do to people with the issues. Is it possible that people with underlying issues outnumber the people without underlying issues?

Roughly 1/3 of adults have hypertension.
Roughly 10% are diabetic.
Roughly 40% are obese.
Roughly 8% have asthma.
Roughly 15% smoke and 4% vape.

I'm sure there's plenty of overlap, but 50% or more wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by whomario

Bit of a worrisome trend is that the UK still seems to test the bare minimun. 48% of analysed tests (5900 of 12000 roughly) came back positive after about 40% the last 5 days, indicates they are likely only able to test pretty much exclusively those with noticeable symptoms at best.
Even Italy was never much above 30% for a single day (and has been steadily dropping, onl, 13% today out of 35k tests)

Ouch. That's at least one aspect that we're behind Italy on at the moment … it was higher but we're at about 18.5% lately. We've definitely ramped up testing but at the same time clearly don't have a good handle on it yet.

[cuervo72]

Inside the epic White House blowup over hydroxychloroquine - Axios

Beginning to wonder who might have a financial stake in this drug.

(Ok, not beginning, pretty much wondered that out of the gate.)

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Inside the epic White House blowup over hydroxychloroquine - Axios

Beginning to wonder who might have a financial stake in this drug.

(Ok, not beginning, pretty much wondered that out of the gate.)

Which Senators bought stock in the company that produces it?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Inside the epic White House blowup over hydroxychloroquine - Axios

Beginning to wonder who might have a financial stake in this drug.

(Ok, not beginning, pretty much wondered that out of the gate.)

I'm not sure there is a financial stake, more wanting to be the hero is my guess with the miracle drug.

[whomario]

Austria is going to start to gradually scale back restrictions based on current data (they also did a small but not insignificant representative test), just to show that there is indeed light at the end of that tunnel. Going to take longer for most countries that are bigger or harder hit/less equipped early, but still good to see.

Meanwhile that advertised big antibody-test campaign seems off the table as the delivered tests are not working nearly well enough (same has happened in Spain). There are no shortcuts here ..

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm not sure there is a financial stake, more wanting to be the hero is my guess with the miracle drug.

Bottom line to me is if I'm sick, ventilators ain't working or not around, sure give it to me (or any other unproven drug that has "good" anecdotal evidence) in best guess doses/treatment. Don't have much to lose. If anything a placebo effect.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Bottom line to me is if I'm sick, ventilators ain't working or not around, sure give it to me (or any other unproven drug that has "good" anecdotal evidence) in best guess doses/treatment. Don't have much to lose. If anything a placebo effect.

What people often don't realise is that (if i don't misunderstand the German experts!) hydroxychloroquine in theory would be most helpful in a stage where people get worse but you can't yet judge if they will need intensive care eventually or not.
Because the virus does actually stop replicating at some point anyway and that is what the medication would help along in theory.

And so this "what do you have to loose" narrative seems insane because at the point where this might (!) help you aren't at a stage yet where that thinking is even remotely apropriate considering the range of side effects including massive cardiac issues.

There is a reason the current studies (including the one from France that Trump loves) are testing it entirely outside the ICU and with relatively young and otherwise healthy patients and not 70+ year olds with a bunch of other issues.

[whomario]

Also, patients bad enough to be on a ventilator are not exactly going to be profitting from a Placebo effect considering they are routinely put in a medically induced coma before being hooked up to the machine.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by whomario

And so this "what do you have to loose" narrative seems insane because at the point where this might (!) help you aren't at a stage yet where that thinking is even remotely apropriate considering the range of side effects including massive cardiac issues.

Let me clarify and say I'm dying (vs just sick) and the ventilators are not around or not working.

Fine then give me "any other unproven drug that has "good" anecdotal evidence" for the end stages. I'm willing to be a guinea pig if I'm going downhill.

Side effects, cardiac arrest etc. So what is there to lose?

[miked]

Why not give you horse semen, you got nothing to lose!!

Most drugs have side effects. If the benefit is negligible and the potential side effects could make you worse, then you have lots to lose. If you are to the point where you really have nothing to lose, chloroquine ain't doing squat.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miked

Why not give you horse semen, you got nothing to lose!!

Most drugs have side effects. If the benefit is negligible and the potential side effects could make you worse, then you have lots to lose. If you are to the point where you really have nothing to lose, chloroquine ain't doing squat.

I'm not opposed to it if there good anecdotal evidence it'll work? Maybe you missed that qualifier?

... give me "any other unproven drug that has "good" anecdotal evidence" for the end stages. I'm willing to be a guinea pig if I'm going downhil

[panerd]

Some people will believe Donald Trump/right leaning news no matter what he/they say regardless of it there is are any facts or information to back it up.

And some people will argue against any attempts to try something if Donald Trump's name is attached to it. Hydroxychloroquine seems to have a shown at least a little more promise among the scientific/medical community than horse semen.

Gov. Cuomo is clearing med students to help with the response. I think it's a great idea but obviously during normal times there is a reason they don't do it. Had Trump proposed this I'm sure we would hear endless reasons why it's a bad idea. Why not promote my housekeeper Trump? Blood is on your hands!!!!

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

If the facts are as it is being reported then yes he broke the chain of command. The problem for me is the details that are being reported read like someone getting a speeding ticket for driving 57 in 55 mph zone

I am skeptical.

I am no longer skeptical.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/polit...dly/index.html

To quote your own words, SECNAV

If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out to the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naïve or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this," Modly said. "The alternative is that he did this on purpose."

So which is it SECNAV, are you stupid, naive or did you leak this on purpose?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm not opposed to it if there good anecdotal evidence it'll work? Maybe you missed that qualifier?

There is no good anecdotal evidence it helps once you are to the last stages where you need a ventilator.
And prior to that it is tough to predict if you get there or not (reason No. 123 why this virus/illness is so problematic) so just blindly adding medication willy nilly is ethically suspect and potentially more harmful than helpful.

Again, it is thought to be potentially helpful in a stage where a patient still has an above average chance to get better regardless.

In the french study they found viral load to reduce, yes. BUT: of 22 patients 3 people got bad and transfered to ICU, 2 stopped treatment due to side effects and 1 died before he could get to ICU. NONE of the 16 people in the Control group ended up even needing ICU care throughout the study.

Yeah, anecdotal is how i'd describe that. Evidence ? Ehh ... Even if you look past side effects or sample size, just reducing viral load is proof of exactly that. You still have not proven you reduced it enough (if you miss by a yard or 10 on a fieldgoal, you still miss) or in enough cases it makes up for the side effects.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am no longer skeptical.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/polit...dly/index.html

To quote your own words, SECNAV



So which is it SECNAV, are you stupid, naive or did you leak this on purpose?

That speech was entirely for the benefit of Trump. The attacks on the media were ridiculous.

[Edward64]

Just a reminder ... use the other thread for your Trump bashing.

[Ben E Lou]

First person semi-close to us that sounds like a strong possibility, and frightening. A kid in my oldest daughter's grade (5th). He has been in the same homeroom as her several times. The mom (who wrote the post) has become a friend over the years, and this year she is our youngest daughter's reading teacher.

So I guess it’s about time I share what’s going on w {kid's name}. We are on day 11 of high fevers, cough, cold symptoms. On Thursday, {kid} was diagnosed w strep. He has been on antibiotics for 4 days without much relief. Yesterday, fever was back at 104, horrible cough, headaches, chills. Doc said to keep him home and avoid ER unless he was in respiratory distress. Fast forward to last night— very lethargic, breathing heavily. A neighbor gave us a pulse ox monitor to check oxygen levels. Last night was 89. Should be 93 or higher. Did albuterol every four hours to get oxygen back up. Vomited 5-6 times in the night. This morn, oxygen level was 87. Brought him to ER at Brenner. He has pneumonia, fever is still 103.4 with meds, bloodwork has been done and he has been tested for Covid-19. He has been admitted. {brother's name} and {dad's name} are quarantined until we get results back. He is being put on heavy duty antibiotics. He cannot see his dad and brother (very upset about that) and they have asked for me not to come and go. So just pray. That’s all.

He's 11.

[Critch]

The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem is closed, first time it's been closed since 1349:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246785553900724224

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

First person semi-close to us that sounds like a strong possibility, and frightening. A kid in my oldest daughter's grade (5th). He has been in the same homeroom as her several times. The mom (who wrote the post) has become a friend over the years, and this year she is our youngest daughter's reading teacher.





He's 11.

That is heartbreakingly terrible. I still see groups of 6-8 kids playing in my neighborhood.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

Some people will believe Donald Trump/right leaning news no matter what he/they say regardless of it there is are any facts or information to back it up.

And some people will argue against any attempts to try something if Donald Trump's name is attached to it. Hydroxychloroquine seems to have a shown at least a little more promise among the scientific/medical community than horse semen.

Gov. Cuomo is clearing med students to help with the response. I think it's a great idea but obviously during normal times there is a reason they don't do it. Had Trump proposed this I'm sure we would hear endless reasons why it's a bad idea. Why not promote my housekeeper Trump? Blood is on your hands!!!!

Because acting on the best advice of medical professionals and acting against the best advice of medical professionals are the exact same things.

[larrymcg421]

Copy/paste. Even now!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Bottom line to me is if I'm sick, ventilators ain't working or not around, sure give it to me (or any other unproven drug that has "good" anecdotal evidence) in best guess doses/treatment. Don't have much to lose. If anything a placebo effect.

Except, it's also an antiviral that is in short supply for people with lupus and malaria, too. So we ok with killing lupus and malaria patients on a lark?


SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Except, it's also an antiviral that is in short supply for people with lupus and malaria, too. So we ok with killing lupus and malaria patients on a lark?


SI

Sacrifices have to be made.

[Brian Swartz]

Sure, but those sacrifices should not be made until we actually have more definitive evidence that it helps with coronavirus. Until then, we're treating something fairly speculatively instead of treating something that we know it works on. Until we get more specifics from clinical trials, we should only be using it to the extent that there's a surplus for coronavirus treatments.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That is heartbreakingly terrible

I don't know for certain that the boy has an underlying condition, but I *think* I recall that he has asthma. (We haven't told our daughter yet, but she would probably know. I think we're going to wait for a diagnosis to tell her.) His mom has been one of the most outspoken folks on my FB feed pushing folks to stay home, take it seriously, social distance, etc. I just checked her wall, and this started well before her son's fever. Point being, that could well have pushed her to advocacy.

I still see groups of 6-8 kids playing in my neighborhood.

I walk my dog a couple of miles or so at least once a day, and from what I've seen, kids under 15ish in this neighborhood have not been intermingling. I have seen groups of what appear to be high school kids skateboarding, walking, and generally hanging out.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by panerd

Gov. Cuomo is clearing med students to help with the response. I think it's a great idea but obviously during normal times there is a reason they don't do it. Had Trump proposed this I'm sure we would hear endless reasons why it's a bad idea. Why not promote my housekeeper Trump? Blood is on your hands!!!!

Wrong thread.

[Lathum]

I just drove to drop off something at my in-laws. Shocking number of people having gatherings on their driveways. Kids playing. Etc. Just because it’s a beautiful day out doesn’t mean it’s ok to congregate.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That is heartbreakingly terrible. I still see groups of 6-8 kids playing in my neighborhood.

Friday was the first day up here that felt like Spring. I didn't see any issues with any of the kids I saw outside, but all weekend there were way more cars parked on the street than usual, my next door neighbor and a house across the street both had people over and were outside grilling, chatting and hanging out close to either other as though nothing were happening.

[miked]

Just had my daughter's 11th birthday via Zoom and a nice drive-by parade. Kind of sad, but she is having a good day so that is good. I saw Ben had one as well (drive-by Bday) so it must be the new thing for the kids.

[tarcone]

Kids around my neighborhood seem to be sticking to their own families with the exception of next door neighbor whose twin sister is over everyday with her 2 kids.

And the husbands Dad and Mon are both heavy smokers. Dumb.

[spleen1015]

My grandmother was confirmed to be COVID-19 positive this morning. She's 83. She had a 3 month long battle with some kind of cold/flu over the winter. Something that she had and it took her a long time to get over. Now this.

She lives with my cousin. About 9 days ago my cousin started to get sick, cough, respiratory issues but no fever. The doctor told him since there was no fever, COVID was unlikely. He sent my grandmother to stay with my aunt anyway. Her second day there she starts to develop a cough.

After 4 days, she felt bad enough to go to the doc. They thought she had a cold. 2 days later she felt 10 times worse and went back to the doctor. They tested her and she got the results today. Positive.

We think she got it from my cousin who thinks he got it from his boss who traveled to NY about 2-3 weeks ago. My cousin started feeling sick the day after a meeting with his boss. 4-5 other people who work for this boss and the boss are various stages of sick as well.

I was there, in my cousins house 3 weeks ago today. This was before the meeting with the boss. I haven't been sick at all. I'm pretty sure I don't have it.

This is not good though. My grandmother is high risk I would say given her age and how long it took her to recover from being sick over the winter.

My cousin says she hasn't gotten worse over the last few days, so well see.

[Lathum]

Praying for her, Spleen

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by miked

I saw Ben had one as well (drive-by Bday) so it must be the new thing for the kids.

It was a great surprise to both of them. Not sure my wife's 92-year-old aunt should have come out, but at least she wore a mask! *shurg*

[tarcone]

Prayers to you and yours, Spleen.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

My grandmother was confirmed to be COVID-19 positive this morning. She's 83. She had a 3 month long battle with some kind of cold/flu over the winter. Something that she had and it took her a long time to get over. Now this.

She lives with my cousin. About 9 days ago my cousin started to get sick, cough, respiratory issues but no fever. The doctor told him since there was no fever, COVID was unlikely. He sent my grandmother to stay with my aunt anyway. Her second day there she starts to develop a cough.

After 4 days, she felt bad enough to go to the doc. They thought she had a cold. 2 days later she felt 10 times worse and went back to the doctor. They tested her and she got the results today. Positive.

We think she got it from my cousin who thinks he got it from his boss who traveled to NY about 2-3 weeks ago. My cousin started feeling sick the day after a meeting with his boss. 4-5 other people who work for this boss and the boss are various stages of sick as well.

I was there, in my cousins house 3 weeks ago today. This was before the meeting with the boss. I haven't been sick at all. I'm pretty sure I don't have it.

This is not good though. My grandmother is high risk I would say given her age and how long it took her to recover from being sick over the winter.

My cousin says she hasn't gotten worse over the last few days, so well see.

Prayers, spleen!

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Praying for her, Spleen

Thanks, man.

Ben, that was pretty cool!

[spleen1015]

Thanks, guys.

Not sure what to really think. My mom is freaking out. My sister is freaking out.