WW CXLIX SPAWN IV - GAME OVER (Post 3845)

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by JAG

I'm going with who I think is the most likely Spawn of the remaining players but yeah, I would not vote for someone who could not have possibly been starting Spawn just because it's a smaller pool of players than the mutated Spawn. My vote is based on Abe's poor voting history, other things about his posts (not much effort put into finding Spawn, other than performing his role of trainer not doing as much to help the survivors as others), and my inability to explain why he would not have been a target of the Spawn to this point.

Emphasis my own.

I cna;t answer anything els,e I certianly don' have a good voting record, that's true. But they just took out two doctors last night, so I would assume I would be next on their hit lsit tonight, why take me out when I can;t make a doctor for a day last night? Take out both doctors, and take me and the other trainee tonight. I don;t see how that implicates me. Sure, votes are bad and your move may vary on my contributions, but the last one doesn't seem right since they just started doctor hunting last night.

[Abe Sargent]

Whoops, I italized to emphasize tehquote, but duh, it's all italics

[Danny]

I think Abe is a poor percentage vote right now

[Shiggles]

Originally Posted by Chubby

9 beds, 8 people rested.

try again

because someone claimed in the bed but didnt sleep. not my fault, i didnt have a bed to sleep in. same old argument, different wording. zinto had my bed. only possible explanation because im not a spawn

[Shiggles]

and jag i just scanned him and hes clean, so abe would be a silly vote

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Shiggles

because someone claimed in the bed but didnt sleep. not my fault, i didnt have a bed to sleep in. same old argument, different wording. zinto had my bed. only possible explanation because im not a spawn

and how would someone claim a bed but not use it?

[JAG]

For the sake of discussion and because we haven't heard from him in a while:

Unvote Abe
Vote Britrock

Really the only other person in my mind other than Abe that could be the starting Spawn based on vote record and having convenient excuses for being exhausted at night doing research. DV and LSG do not seem like likely to me, nor does Danny2 based on his D2 vote.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Danny

I think Abe is a poor percentage vote right now

Still catching up, but this is where I was headed with my question.

[Danny]

I will go that direction for now as well.

vote britrock

[Shiggles]

cause he was a spawn? did he claim any night orders? how am i supposed to know. All i know is that if i die, you guys lose at least one turn of scanning while abe has to train another doctor, or you guys kill abe, which ive already scanned to be clean, and then probably lose me in the night, so if you guys do liftoff, your stuck with hunches as opposed to scanning.

Who controls unaware spawn at night? the oldest spawn? or do they essentially play two different characters and submit orders at night?

[hoopsguy]

Somewhere we're making some bad assumptions, which are turning what might be an easy vote into a harder one. Or at least that is the way I've felt when thinking about this vote over the past two days.

JAG, can you quote BK's post that says work would be last, or at least after spawn night/kill actions? Because that doesn't sound like the type of thing that BK would normally reveal ... this seems to be a pretty important piece in assessing Shiggles so I want to make sure we've got it right.

If Shiggles wasn't able to make the kill, then I would be more inclined to look at Britrock or other candidates.

[hoopsguy]

So I want to try a little different exercise - what do we think the Spawn were doing each night? Anyone want to help fill in the blanks, correct this timetable?

Night 1 - ???
Night 2 - spawnling attack on Dubb
Night 3 - destroying stuff
Night 4 - ???
Night 5 - two kills

[Shiggles]

I have no info on brit, i worked with him on day 2 where i had a little exposure, but no trigger, and theres been a lot of days between then, so lemme check the exhausted log

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Shiggles

cause he was a spawn? did he claim any night orders? how am i supposed to know. All i know is that if i die, you guys lose at least one turn of scanning while abe has to train another doctor, or you guys kill abe, which ive already scanned to be clean, and then probably lose me in the night, so if you guys do liftoff, your stuck with hunches as opposed to scanning.

Who controls unaware spawn at night? the oldest spawn? or do they essentially play two different characters and submit orders at night?

so he has a spawn ability that allows him to claim a bed but not use it? how are you supposed to know? i want some sort of theory besides "ZINTO DID IT"

i don't see anyone advocating a vote for abe so why is it an either or?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So I want to try a little different exercise - what do we think the Spawn were doing each night? Anyone want to help fill in the blanks, correct this timetable?

Night 1 - ???
Night 2 - spawnling attack on Dubb
Night 3 - destroying stuff
Night 4 - ???
Night 5 - two kills

Theere ws a night 0 too

[JAG]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Somewhere we're making some bad assumptions, which are turning what might be an easy vote into a harder one. Or at least that is the way I've felt when thinking about this vote over the past two days.

JAG, can you quote BK's post that says work would be last, or at least after spawn night/kill actions? Because that doesn't sound like the type of thing that BK would normally reveal ... this seems to be a pretty important piece in assessing Shiggles so I want to make sure we've got it right.

If Shiggles wasn't able to make the kill, then I would be more inclined to look at Britrock or other candidates.

Post 3219 he quoted the rule, I'll re-post:

Performing Actions
Except where noted, in order to perform an Action you must PM the GM. Actions will be processed in the order they are received and then posted by the GM. Most actions take place immediately, though repair or conversion actions are not completed until the end of a cycle.

That specifically says conversion happens at the end of a cycle.

I still have not seen an answer from people voting Shiggles how they explain him claiming the spawn aware role. As a Spawn, that would be a very risky option when you don't know that another person is going to claim the same. It would be a nice move to pull if he was the mutated spawn and knew he previously had that role, but that basically removes him from being a starting spawn in my eyes.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So I want to try a little different exercise - what do we think the Spawn were doing each night? Anyone want to help fill in the blanks, correct this timetable?

Night 1 - ???
Night 2 - spawnling attack on Dubb
Night 3 - destroying stuff
Night 4 - ???
Night 5 - two kills

Night 2 they also messed up our fence.

Night 4 Zinto and unknown Spawn did a spawnling attack on someone. Chief Rum observed the attack by two people on one person.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JAG

Post 3219 he quoted the rule, I'll re-post:



That specifically says conversion happens at the end of a cycle.

I still have not seen an answer from people voting Shiggles how they explain him claiming the spawn aware role. As a Spawn, that would be a very risky option when you don't know that another person is going to claim the same. It would be a nice move to pull if he was the mutated spawn and knew he previously had that role, but that basically removes him from being a starting spawn in my eyes.

spawn aware is not something that I think is limited to one per game

[Shiggles]

Originally Posted by Chubby

so he has a spawn ability that allows him to claim a bed but not use it? how are you supposed to know? i want some sort of theory besides "ZINTO DID IT"

i don't see anyone advocating a vote for abe so why is it an either or?

Jag was voting for abe earlier, but has since switched the vote

[Shiggles]

so checking the exhausted list the only names i see of consistently tired but not cleared people by scanning/death are CF, Julio, and britrock.

Britrock i believe on his exhausted night was doing research late at night, will need clarification to this though.

CF has been spearheading the engineering for the group which is a plus, but he has not been scanned, due to claiming empath ability, and conduct during game.

Julio has been scanning people during the night, but has yet to explain if they saw anything during the double death night while watching HQ for security

[Shiggles]

oh, and there is also a spawn ability that allows you to scan people and learn their secret role, but why would a spawn have a turn that is not exhausted when they have a cover story, unless that is spent evolving into something else. Thats all speculation of course.

[britrock88]

Hey everybody. Sorry I've been pretty sparse since this weekend. I've scanned over the thread, and will start discussing/hypothesizing/defending shortly.

Before I dive into that, though, are we keeping me inside to protect from potential spawn infection? I'm of the belief that because the lab is in Building D along with the crew quarters, I may be able to do work without risking infection. If I'm not right, maybe we mitigate potential conversions by sending GE consistently, having already done so today.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Shiggles

CF has been spearheading the engineering for the group which is a plus, but he has not been scanned, due to claiming empath ability, and conduct during game.

So NOW my conduct in the game makes me a villager as opposed to all the previous statements where my conduct made me look guilty?

[CrimsonFox]

I'm going to ask a scary question that no one has asked nor probably would.

BK, did you make a mistake about bed count?

and

BK, according to all those damage reports, it said there were 9 beds not damaged. That does mean that 9 people can sleep right?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Hey everybody. Sorry I've been pretty sparse since this weekend. I've scanned over the thread, and will start discussing/hypothesizing/defending shortly.

Before I dive into that, though, are we keeping me inside to protect from potential spawn infection? I'm of the belief that because the lab is in Building D along with the crew quarters, I may be able to do work without risking infection. If I'm not right, maybe we mitigate potential conversions by sending GE consistently, having already done so today.

Are the crew quarters still in Building D now that they've been converted to the ship though?

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by JAG

Are the crew quarters still in Building D now that they've been converted to the ship though?

Derp. Great point.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Game Play Warning
Spawn is a complex game and not everything that is possible is listed here. As events evolve so does the gameplay. For instance in Spawn 2, the Scientists developed a way to scan for Spawn. Further, because Spawn is a complex game the GM will make errors. When possible these errors will be corrected, however some errors are not correctable. I apologize in advance if this happens.

You see...I KNEW IT! This HAS to be the answer! It's in the rules even! (just kidding but so many things happen that we don't understand that it makes me wonder sometimes)

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Shiggles

oh, and there is also a spawn ability that allows you to scan people and learn their secret role, but why would a spawn have a turn that is not exhausted when they have a cover story, unless that is spent evolving into something else. Thats all speculation of course.

There is no way the spawn would use a night ability like that at this point. They would kill, damage things, or infect.

No way would they waste the opportunity at this point to improve their numbers or reduce ours.

[Shiggles]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

So NOW my conduct in the game makes me a villager as opposed to all the previous statements where my conduct made me look guilty?

conduct means you have done good engineer things. but statements, color me defensive, i would vote for you if you were on the block.

[britrock88]

Before I get to the more pertinent stuff...

One thing I'm interested in is the thinking that led to our work on the power facilities. Facility 2 was the most recent one converted, and with it went the power for security, the brig, and the armory, which are the 3 best defensive facilities at this stage of the game. DV did the work to finish that -- was he under orders of JAG, or did he finish that of his own accord? And we're already talking about the order of operations and commands, which is good. I had been wondering if DV converted the power facility to spring Shiggles from the Brig so that they could attack our other doctors and make Shiggles' role more important. (I also wish DV had more to say in his defense than "you're gonna make a mistake.")

It's just curious to me that Building C is the one without power at this juncture. Maybe I'm thinking this just because the spawn took out 2 of the 3 doctors and made the medical facilities much less useful, while we scientists have at least initially completed the high- and medium-level research.

More germane to our task of hunting down any converted spawn is figuring out what happened on Night 4. Zinto was executed at the end of Day 5 and the spawn count stayed at 2, so I figure someone was infected either by spawn attack or by working once the fence was down.

[britrock88]

For those who have asked, yeah, I've been up and researching every night. I took that little hint from one of Barkeep's write-ups to heart, and figured that exhausting myself night after night wouldn't be any worse after having done it the first time. And in case any of the questions about the fruits of our research have not yet been answered, I can vouch for GE (and he can do the same for me) that we are telling you everything we know about them.

[britrock88]

Next, a little aside on my voting record.

Originally Posted by Danny

LSG also had a good Day 4 vote, but not much else. Abe and Britrock have awful voting records. Darth missed half the votes.

I admit my voting record is terrible; it's been bad for the handful of WW games I've played now. I keep trying the techniques that other players use -- whether it's pinging inactive players, following a proven leader's vote, bringing a race closer so that both players feel more of a need to give us useful information, etc. But my timing must be terrible, because when I tend to catch heat, it's typically for my votes. I need to develop a better gut and go with it. That said, I agree with JAG's assessment and understand why I'm categorized with the people I tend to suspect most at this point -- LSG, DV, shiggles, and Abe.

I'll take a little more time to figure out where to go with tonight's vote, though, as that kind of thing seems important around here.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Shiggles

oh, and there is also a spawn ability that allows you to scan people and learn their secret role, but why would a spawn have a turn that is not exhausted when they have a cover story, unless that is spent evolving into something else. Thats all speculation of course.

See this is just not true. There is no spawn role like that so this is yet something else that you seem to be making up. There is a scrying spawn that adds attack bonuses and has the potential of learning what night action performed but that is not role...and the fact that Simbo was the scrying spawn is already dead. Just more made up sstuff here. I've been in games where I had obvious info to lynch before and was talked out of it. I'm not doing that again.

[CrimsonFox]

BTW what are the chances that JAG is the new spawn?

Highly possible.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by JAG

Night 2 they also messed up our fence.

Night 4 Zinto and unknown Spawn did a spawnling attack on someone. Chief Rum observed the attack by two people on one person.

I'm also under the assumption that N1 they formed the Spawn Overlord. In the rules it states it gives the Spawn 'certain advantages', which potentially could explain how they were able to perform some powered up attack on our fence that left it permanently inoperative. At least there's nothing else in the rules I noticed that provides a potential explaination as to how they were able to do it.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Shiggles

so checking the exhausted list the only names i see of consistently tired but not cleared people by scanning/death are CF, Julio, and britrock.

Britrock i believe on his exhausted night was doing research late at night, will need clarification to this though.

CF has been spearheading the engineering for the group which is a plus, but he has not been scanned, due to claiming empath ability, and conduct during game.

Julio has been scanning people during the night, but has yet to explain if they saw anything during the double death night while watching HQ for security

Shiggles also raises interesting points here about people in the second tier of potential spawn, CF and Julio. To be honest, I thought CF either had terrible luck in using his empath ability, did a great job of sabotaging it (if he had been attacked Night 1, maybe? Not sure how the timing lines up), or faked it altogether, as his results didn't exactly enlighten us as to anything. I also thought we might hear something from the people who man security HQ, but there's been a void there. Julio is one of the people I have to look at askance because of that.

[Darth Vilus]

Originally Posted by britrock88

I also wish DV had more to say in his defense than "you're gonna make a mistake.")

Defense against what?

[CrimsonFox]

And do we think that the infected spawn is now a roleless real spawn now or has there been enough time to evolve into a role. It seems like:

it goes:
Villager--> Spawnling-->Unevolved Spawn-->evolved Spawn

How long the last step is we dont know do we? But it is even one cycle (day->night or night->day) or one full day tops.
But really I don't know if there has been enough time for the spawn to have a role unless it JUST got it today. Yes?

[britrock88]

Defense against a lynch.

[Darth Vilus]

WHat possible defense can I have? I'm good and I don't have a role (that I know of yet) That's all.

I voted for zinto, what else would you like. I do not have any defense, I just dont have it

[britrock88]

That's fair. I assume there are people out there who haven't learned their secret role yet. We've seen evidence of people learning theirs slowly. In earlier Spawn games, sometimes people didn't survive long enough to learn theirs at all, yada yada. I don't mean to fault you; I just wish we had more to go on.

At this point, I'm going to

VOTE SHIGGLES.

[Julio Riddols]

hey there guys, catching up - checkin' in and whatnot.

[britrock88]

Hey, DV, if a couple votes stick on us, maybe we'll find out that we have the gut feeling!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Before I get to the more pertinent stuff...

One thing I'm interested in is the thinking that led to our work on the power facilities. Facility 2 was the most recent one converted, and with it went the power for security, the brig, and the armory, which are the 3 best defensive facilities at this stage of the game. DV did the work to finish that -- was he under orders of JAG, or did he finish that of his own accord? And we're already talking about the order of operations and commands, which is good. I had been wondering if DV converted the power facility to spring Shiggles from the Brig so that they could attack our other doctors and make Shiggles' role more important. (I also wish DV had more to say in his defense than "you're gonna make a mistake.")

That's a reasonable question. I wanted to convert facility 2 first because the other options were facility 3 which housed the science lab and medical facility (so that was a 'no way' for me) and facility 1 housed our water replicator, which I didn't think it was wise to leave us without having power. We pretty much had to give on something without power.

However after BK revealed that if we left the brig without power it would free Shiggles, I stated in the thread that we shouldn't finish converting that facility and that we should partially convert something else.

[britrock88]

But this transpired on Night 5, right? So if you had been attacked on Night 4, you would have been converted to full-fledged spawn by Night 5 (going off Dubb's maturation process)? Interesting.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

BTW what are the chances that JAG is the new spawn?

Highly possible.

I thought it would've been smart by them to mutate me, but I guess they felt like it was too obvious a move since it didn't happen.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by britrock88

But this transpired on Night 5, right? So if you had been attacked on Night 4, you would have been converted to full-fledged spawn by Night 5 (going off Dubb's maturation process)? Interesting.

Correct, dubb was attacked N2, became spawnling D3, and was Spawn N3 when Autumn killed him, so if you're claiming I was the one attacked N4, I would've been a full Spawn by N5, assuming the same timeline.

[Shiggles]

Whatever, votes on darth for now. tomorrow im gonna scan julio to remove any doubt for my mind

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JAG

That's a reasonable question. I wanted to convert facility 2 first because the other options were facility 3 which housed the science lab and medical facility (so that was a 'no way' for me) and facility 1 housed our water replicator, which I didn't think it was wise to leave us without having power. We pretty much had to give on something without power.

However after BK revealed that if we left the brig without power it would free Shiggles, I stated in the thread that we shouldn't finish converting that facility and that we should partially convert something else.

So basically you just were talking about it in thread and didn't submit an order for DV to do work, yes?

[Shiggles]

*if im alive