POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Trump Hectors NATO But Boosts Both Money And Troops : NPR

Fair enough. Thanks for the link, always good to have a source. Looks like he did increase overall funding for western European defense.

And yes, other countries paid more after he pushed for it.

Yup

Access Denied

For a guy who hates NATO and wants to end it, it's an odd strategy to give it more money and push other countries to contribute even more money.

I don't believe he wants to end NATO. I believe he wanted to get the US out of NATO or at least greatly reduce the US commitments (this part I agree with).

It's not an odd strategy. It's actually smart to have non-US NATO countries spend and contribute more money. And even smarter for them to buy US weapons.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If GWB endorses Kamala on the "Trump's a unique threat to America" theory, do we think that moves the needle at all?

Hard to say given that most or all of the "regular Republicans" have been kicked out of the party

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Wildly unpopular politician who is dealing with dementia.

I mean, there's not really any libel on message boards, but you keep claiming this as if this is proven fact and it seems...well, pretty distasteful.

[RainMaker]

They really seem to be struggling with ways to attack Walz. So I guess the attack yesterday was a story about how he was playing too much Sega Dreamcast and his wife told him to cut back. Going to go out on a limb and guess that there are a lot of voters who find that story relatable.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Oh man, you have a link to that?




[miami_fan]

Anything goes in politics? Sure.

I have spent way too much of the last twenty years around autistic kids and am now a big softy regarding them? Absolutely.

Beyond that, what is the political benefit of making fun of Walz's 17 year old autistic son? I thought kids were off limits in general though that custom has been chipped away at with GWB's daughters and then the Obama girls. I honestly don't remember Barron getting any abuse outside of how much taller he was then everyone else in a family photo but I could be wrong.

Is the benefit the outpouring of support that someone like Coulter gets when people like me say it is a negative thing and being too sensitive?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is no arbiter on what is and isn't a democracy.

If you believe that jailing, torturing, and killing political opponents makes you a democracy, so be it. If you believe that no free press makes a country a democracy, great. There's really no convincing you otherwise and by that definition, countries like Russia would qualify.

I agree there are different definitions, forms of democracy and different "types". Just because it does not meet your Swedish values does not make it less of one, faults and all.

Unlike you, I can provide a preponderance of evidence/articles from wiki, state department etc. that states that Philippines is a democracy, however strained and work in progress it.

I just don't agree that you can be a democracy with that structure.

Yup, it figures. Your personal opinion not backed up by any legit sources/articles.

Not that being a democracy matters to the United States anyway.

Yeah, let us know how well its going in Sweden.

[GrantDawg]

Could you just imagine?

pic.twitter.com/lBHext8f41

— Will (@WillEvans215) August 22, 2024

[Edward64]

It would be great but just don't see it.

I'm rooting for Taylor Swift.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They really seem to be struggling with ways to attack Walz. So I guess the attack yesterday was a story about how he was playing too much Sega Dreamcast and his wife told him to cut back. Going to go out on a limb and guess that there are a lot of voters who find that story relatable.


The one I saw today was that he really shouldn't get credit for coaching that state championship team because we was a defensive coordinator and not the head coach. Yeah, defense is not important at all in football.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Unlike you, I can provide a preponderance of evidence/articles from wiki, state department etc. that states that Philippines is a democracy, however strained and work in progress it.

I'm sure the United States says nice things about the Philippines. Just like they say nice stuff about Saudi Arabia, Israel, Pakistan, UAE, etc. Our State Department has a long history of whitewashing brutal tyrants and war criminals as long as they are allies.

Like I said, with your definition, Russia is a democracy too.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It would be great but just don't see it.

I'm rooting for Taylor Swift.

I don't either. Liz Chaney maybe? Even then, you letting someone who is pretty vile in many of her political beliefs have a platform. Taylor would be the dream. I guess Beyonce would be big as well. I think Taylor and maybe Travis beside her would probably cause some heads to explode.

[albionmoonlight]

If the Dems do have Taylor, should they save her for later? Seems like she'd command a few news cycles on her own instead of adding to the (often temporary) convention bump.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm sure the United States says nice things about the Philippines. Just like they say nice stuff about Saudi Arabia, Israel, Pakistan, UAE, etc. Our State Department has a long history of whitewashing brutal tyrants and war criminals as long as they are allies.

Like I said, with your definition, Russia is a democracy too.

What a stretch. Shows your ignorance trying to compare Philippines with Russia.

I can quote plenty of legit sources/articles that says Russia is not a democracy. Unfortunately, you can't do the same for your opinion of Philippines. Go ahead, still waiting for your non-tiktok, non-twitter sources.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Anything goes in politics? Sure.

I have spent way too much of the last twenty years around autistic kids and am now a big softy regarding them? Absolutely.

Beyond that, what is the political benefit of making fun of Walz's 17 year old autistic son? I thought kids were off limits in general though that custom has been chipped away at with GWB's daughters and then the Obama girls. I honestly don't remember Barron getting any abuse outside of how much taller he was then everyone else in a family photo but I could be wrong.

Is the benefit the outpouring of support that someone like Coulter gets when people like me say it is a negative thing and being too sensitive?

I think it's simple - they are grasping at straws to counter the "weird" thing. And failing miserably. The political benefit is to keep their base engaged and entertained. I don't think they really think about or care how something like this plays to others. To the extent they rope in some "normal but GOP through and through" people into it as part of a "them vs us" thing, then great.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If the Dems do have Taylor, should they save her for later? Seems like she'd command a few news cycles on her own instead of adding to the (often temporary) convention bump.

I don't know. I think you spike the ball. She can do rally's and stuff later even after she announces something tonight. They need to do anything to run up the score right now, so when that inevitable deflation comes they have as big a lead as possible. That said, no. I don't believe it will be Taylor.

[Swaggs]

I don't think Dubya would be a good move at the convention. If he wants to participate, in any meaningful way, he can give traditional Republicans permission to vote Dem (or not vote for president). I wouldn't be offended if he was at the convention, but bringing him or Dick Cheney out would probably offend as many folks as it would help. It is hard to envision either of them speaking and not getting at least some 'boos,' which would unnecessarily change the tone of what has largely been a positive (I'm already tired of hearing about "joy") convention.

I think Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney would be the biggest acceptable surprise "gets" in politics. Maybe Condeleeza Rice, as she has seemed to stay pretty well regarded all around. Chris Christie would be interesting. Arnold would be strong, but I don't think he'd be much of a surprise and would probably just be an announced speaker.

Taylor Swift or Beyonce would be big. I think Swift would actually be substantially bigger, given her connection to younger voters.

I think an unusual wildcard would be Michael Jordan. He's obviously best known from his time in Chicago, is a "manly man," and still has a lot of pull.

Someone like Mark Cuban wouldn't be a big surprise either, but I could see that.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If the Dems do have Taylor, should they save her for later? Seems like she'd command a few news cycles on her own instead of adding to the (often temporary) convention bump.

Good point.

Assuming she'll continue to actively campaign for Harris, I'd say do it tonight.

I can see her helping the Dems but bet she'll lose some fans and $ over it.

[thesloppy]

Getting an endorsement is another story, but I think letting a Republican war criminal (or a daughter of one) have a platform at the DNC would be a stumble. Do Democratic voters really want to listen to an extended speech by GWB or Liz Cheney?

[Ksyrup]

Given how far out of politics Dubya has stayed, it would be a strange, uncharacteristic move for him to suddenly agree to participate at a convention.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Getting an endorsement is another story, but I think letting a Republican war criminal (or a daughter of one) have a platform at the DNC would be a stumble. Do Democratic voters really want to listen to an extended speech by GWB or Liz Cheney?

No, and that's why it is almost certainly not them. It is entertaining to think about (imagine Dick Cheney ambling out!), but it would offend more people in the room than engage. If I had money on it, it would be Beyonce. Maybe a little cover on it being someone not very exciting at all.

[GrantDawg]

The other big Republican name floated is Romney. That is possibly less offensive, but still unlikely.

[Swaggs]

Sidebar discussion: What does the next GOP convention even look like?

It is hard to see Dubya ever reappearing at the same event as Trump and with the way his father and brother have been spoken about over the past 8 years, I wouldn't be surprised if he is done-done with politics.

It seems hard to believe Trump would participate or be invited back if he loses this time. If he wins, it seems equally unlikely that he would be interested unless he or one of his kids are running. Can you see him campaigning for JD Vance in 2028 if they win? I can't.

McCain is dead. Dole is dead. Cheney is old. McConnell is old. Bush and Trump are the only living GOP presidents still living.

It will be interesting to see if Desantis, Vance, or Haley emerge if Trump wins.

I can see folks like Pence, Romney, Liz Cheney, and Paul Ryan sort of picking up the pieces in 2028 if Trump loses.

Maybe Youngkin is a rising star, but he will have been out of office for three with the off year election and single term rules in VA. He could run for senate against Mark Warner in 2026, but then would risk both losing to pretty popular senior senator and, if he does win, then needing to turn right around and start running for president. His timing just seems unfortunate.

It's just hard for me to picture what 3-4 nights of programming from them would look like, unless one of the Trump kids are running.

[GrantDawg]

Make this happen...

You know who it is…. pic.twitter.com/71sWrmYQS2

— The Natural (@OrangeBeaverYNK) August 22, 2024

[Passacaglia]

Colin Powell spoke at the DNC in 2008, right? Or am I thinking of something else?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It's just hard for me to picture what 3-4 nights of programming from them would look like, unless one of the Trump kids are running.

Supreme Court justices?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The other big Republican name floated is Romney. That is possibly less offensive, but still unlikely.

And his standing on Trump wouldn't be any kind of worthwhile surprise.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Colin Powell spoke at the DNC in 2008, right? Or am I thinking of something else?

He endorsed Obama in October 2008, but he actually spoke at the DNC in 2020.

[albionmoonlight]

everyone is like "TAYLOR SWIFT?"

But it's going to be something way worse than that. It will be like three former cast members of the West Wing reading the Bill of Rights or something. https://t.co/x2U6S0vyxP

— Ben Dreyfuss (@bendreyfuss) August 22, 2024

[bronconick]

The next RNC is all Trump until he dies. He will refile for running again on 1/21/25 if he loses. He will keep running until people stop grifting, er giving him money.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The other big Republican name floated is Romney. That is possibly less offensive, but still unlikely.

Having a vulture capitalist responsible for tens of millions of job losses speak at your convention that is aimed at working class voters seems like a huge mistake. Same for GWB and Cheney when a considerable portion of your party is upset with actions in the Middle East (plus Cheney would have made more sense yesterday when they focused on January 6th).

I'm guessing a celebrity. Taylor Swift would be massive and an enormous viral event that would likely draw millions more to her speech. I understand saving her for later, but this is going to be one of the first big speeches most of America has heard from Kamala. Having Taylor be the lead-in would be enormous. With that said, she's really careful with her career and I'd be surprised if she did it.

At the end of the day, it's still the Democrats. Martin Sheen pretending the be President Bartlett? Zelensky on a video call? Beyonce? I don't know.


Edit: Michael Jordan would be pretty big if they pulled that off.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I don't think Dubya would be a good move at the convention

I think that is very, very unlikely to happen. His father made it public that he was voting for Hillary in 2016, but Dubya doesn't strike me as a guy who is going to do anything, other than say he's not endorsing anyone in this election.

[NobodyHere]

Being told there is a “DNC Surprise” guest that will blow people away this evening.

— .. (@OperDJT) August 22, 2024

Monica Lewinsky?

[RainMaker]

Is there anyone with any real connection to the party saying there will be a huge surprise? Seems like just a handful of Twitter accounts cosplaying as insiders.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I think that is very, very unlikely to happen. His father made it public that he was voting for Hillary in 2016, but Dubya doesn't strike me as a guy who is going to do anything, other than say he's not endorsing anyone in this election.

Exactly. The closest he's come is a few generic statements that clearly seem to be anti-Trump/pro-rule of law, etc., but I don't believe he's spoken out in any truly political way.

Like the difference between saying you want homelessness to end versus supporting a particular policy position on the issue.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Taylor Swift or Beyonce would be big. I think Swift would actually be substantially bigger, given her connection to younger voters.

Yeah, I'm guessing if there is something it's probably something like Beyonce singing "Freedom" live. Which is cool and all, but I don't know what it changes. (Though I don't really know what any of this changes.)

[Passacaglia]

My guess is Simone Biles.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by bronconick

The next RNC is all Trump until he dies. He will refile for running again on 1/21/25 if he loses. He will keep running until people stop grifting, er giving him money.

I agree with this unfortunately.

[bob]

I don’t see why Taylor, Swift or Beyoncé showing up would blow people away. Wouldn’t we expect them to support Harris?

George Bush, Mitt Romney, and Dick Cheney showing up to support Harris would blow me away

[GrantDawg]

Taking this as Beyonce at the DNC confirmation https://t.co/wrI3FFVdXF

— Tommy Vietor (@TVietor08) August 22, 2024

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Exactly. The closest he's come is a few generic statements that clearly seem to be anti-Trump/pro-rule of law, etc., but I don't believe he's spoken out in any truly political way.

THAT'S WHY IT'S GONNA BE SOOOOO SHOCKING!!1


Seriously, Pence seems more likely...and FAR more likely to have an impact...than Dubya.


And in case no one has noticed, that "blow people away" tweet came from a MAGA troll account. If we start hearing from a reputable source that there's a "blow people away" surprise guest, I'd put my money on Pence probably above anyone else...but so far this is just the interwebz being the interwebz.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

And in case no one has noticed, that "blow people away" tweet came from a MAGA troll account. If we start hearing from a reputable source that there's a "blow people away" surprise guest, I'd put my money on Pence probably above anyone else...

I don’t think Pence has much of a base?

It may blow some people away just because it’s Pence … but doubt it’ll change many votes.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by bob

I don’t see why Taylor, Swift or Beyoncé showing up would blow people away. Wouldn’t we expect them to support Harris?

George Bush, Mitt Romney, and Dick Cheney showing up to support Harris would blow me away

It's a show. Nothing else. It's like getting a second Super Bowl halftime performance.

[GrantDawg]

There is definitely a block of time staked out on the schedule that only a handful of people know what it is for. There is some type of surprise setup.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

THAT'S WHY IT'S GONNA BE SOOOOO SHOCKING!!1


Seriously, Pence seems more likely...and FAR more likely to have an impact...than Dubya.


And in case no one has noticed, that "blow people away" tweet came from a MAGA troll account. If we start hearing from a reputable source that there's a "blow people away" surprise guest, I'd put my money on Pence probably above anyone else...but so far this is just the interwebz being the interwebz.

I'd seen it here, FWIW:

I’ve been sworn to secrecy, but you don’t want to miss the DNC tonight.

If you thought the Oprah surprise was big, just wait.

— Angry Staffer 🌻 (@Angry_Staffer) August 22, 2024

Though I don't know how much inside info Angry Staffer has.

I'd thought of Pence, but I really don't think he'd do it.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's a show. Nothing else. It's like getting a second Super Bowl halftime performance.

It also trolls Trump since he lives and dies on TV ratings and those celebs would make him throw a temper tantrum.

[Ryche]

Beyonce or Swift seem most likely but how about John Kelly?

[Kodos]

It’s Melania!

[RainMaker]

Pence is a loser who has already said he wouldn't vote for Biden or Harris. He's more likely to sit in a corner watching Trump fuck his wife than actually stand up for himself and show up at the convention.

Regardless, why would Democrats want him at their convention? They're running on abortion rights and he's about as far right as you can get on that issue.

[stevew]

Please be JFK, Jr tonight.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's a show. Nothing else. It's like getting a second Super Bowl halftime performance.

Yeah, the goal here is to get your party members excited and also get people to tune in. I don't know what kind of draw Beyonce is, but if it gets people to tune in and they end up listening to Kamala afterwards, that seems like a win for the Dems.