Maximum Football??? - Page 68

Dutch · 03-19-2006, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

So let's see.....

Solecismic, Gary Gorski, Shaun Sullivan, Marc Vaughn and Erik Rutin have commented in this thread. All we need now is Arles and David Winter and the thread will be complete. We even had druez in this thread, so might as well have Joe Stallings comment as well.

Obviously you missed it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Stallings

Behold! A developer of my own ilk....but with bad hair. I pity him.

st.cronin · 03-19-2006, 01:01 AM

Schmidty wins the thread.

Antmeister · 03-19-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

...I have to call b.s. here. It took me about an hour or two to create my demo, and in this case I don't see that much difference between products. Here's what you do:

1) Remove key functions that won't be used. Just take out the code entirely, so there's nothing that can be hacked. For example, I comment out all the functions related to end-year processing and the amateur draft.

2) In my case, I remove everything pertaining to a single season after week 2, and ensure that the schedule can't move past week 2. In your case, since so much of the game is the on-field activity, you would limit games to one quarter, and you'd start the clock with two minutes to play in the first quarter and probably remove schedule movement entirely.

3) To save download size, only include one stadium. Comment out code related to customizing uniforms and functions you're confident are shown off properly in screen shots.

4) Add an end screen informing the prospective customer where he can buy the finished product.

Remember, you don't have to maintain your demo as thoroughly as the finished product. If there's something serious affecting game play, sure, you make the fix in both places (usually by just copying over the file and redoing the "crippling" of that file if necessary) and update the demo. And it is a bit of a hassle to maintain the extra code tree, but not much because what you're really maintaining is the cripple process.

Of course, people will still complain that the demo isn't long enough - it's not a perfect solution. But at least you've given them a taste for the feel of the game, and they have enough to decide for themselves whether they want to make a purchase. Including a lot of screen shots on the web site is also a key, because you want the demo and your web site to work together to channel the eventual purchase.

Well I think the real reason a demo hasn't been released is because they knew it was going to hurt initial sales. If a demo was relased at the same time, with the current issues, a number of people wouldn't have purchased the game to begin with.

To be honest, it was a smart move on their part. Maybe not the most ethical thing to do, but they were able to sell more copies due one's blind faith.

At this point, it would not be smart to try to release a demo at its current state. They were lucky that a number of loyal customers are looking past the serious issues of this game. Until the game because adequate enough to play as it was advertised, a demo wouldn't be a good idea.

Antmeister · 03-19-2006, 08:48 AM

By the way, it still bothers me that I was able to see a refund policy on the US pages. I can consistently show the 14 day refund policy on the UK and Europe pages.

While Erik believes that it was some random error on the US side, I wasn't able to reproduce it again. I still have a sneaking suspicion that someone browsing the boards changed it, but I can't prove it. I do know, however, that Digital River gives you the ability to customize portions of your site. Which portions? I am not sure of that.

Bubba Wheels · 03-19-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

LOL....More people need to appreciate this humor.

Yes, its right up there with Adam Sandler for comic genius...yawn.

Bee · 03-20-2006, 09:55 AM

Has Matrix Games released any announcements concerning the return policy debacle?

Ksyrup · 03-20-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

The mistake Matrix has made here is to continue to be associated with Winters and MF at all. They should have pulled the plug entriely a long time ago. Erik is getting dragged down by Winters because he's a good guy and isn't willing to drop this piece of crap off at Winters' door where it belongs.

This is my take on the whole debacle. Although, I can understand Matrix having sunk a great deal of time, effort, and money into this guy and trying to recoup at least some of it. But, it will be at the expense of their reputation. If people within Matrix, no matter how supportive, couldn't see months, if not years, ago what a mess and non-product this was destined to be, that causes me to wonder about decision-making at the highest levels of the company.

Would that keep me from buying games from them in the future? Not necessarily, but I'll need to have either independent knowledge of the game developer or hear from a number of people whose opinions I respect that a particular game has been developed for Matrix by a Shaun Sullivan rather than Daivd Winters, and that the game is reasonably solid (I don't expect perfect).

Bee · 03-20-2006, 10:52 AM

While scanning the Maximum Football forums looking for an update on the refund policy disaster, I came across this little gem...

Quote:

It's pretty obivious that them folks are on their last leg trying to dig up whatever dirt they can.

Just admit it
You we're wrong about the game turining into a trainwreck
Don't worry no one's gonna laugh at you
we just want the madness to stop

Talk about living in denial. This game is one of the worst releases I've ever seen from the 7 year development, thru the screenshots/video errors, to the release problems/refund mess. The entire thing has been a train wreck. If he wants the madness to stop, perhaps he should talk to Matrix and Daivd and see if they'll pull the game ala Sierra and NFL Pro Football 99.

Antmeister · 03-20-2006, 11:02 AM

Who is elmerlee?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1092479

The damage control that Erik has to do for this product is amazing. And so far the 14 day return policy still shows up. I will have to see if it remains there until the end of the day.

Antmeister · 03-20-2006, 11:09 AM

dola...

I wonder why he wants someone to buy the game before they comment on it. If you just browse through the support section, you can see a number of nasty errors that should have been fixed prior to the game's release. The latest ones are a scheduling problem and not properly calculating positive yards before a fumble. And speaking of fumbles, one person even commented that it doesn't keep track of fumbles. Even after the patches, there appears to be a large number of issues.

Bee · 03-20-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

dola...

I wonder why he wants someone to buy the game before they comment on it. If you just browse through the support section, you can see a number of nasty errors that should have been fixed prior to the game's release. The latest ones are a scheduling problem and not properly calculating positive yards before a fumble. And speaking of fumbles, one person even commented that it doesn't keep track of fumbles. Even after the patches, there appears to be a large number of issues.

If they're getting slammed anyway for a crappy game, why wouldn't they try to force people to buy the game before slamming them. At least that way they make some money.

moriarty · 03-20-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Who is elmerlee?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1092479

The damage control that Erik has to do for this product is amazing. And so far the 14 day return policy still shows up. I will have to see if it remains there until the end of the day.

I thought it was an odd argument from Jennifer too. Don't address the concerns he laid out (whether they're still valid or not), just pay your damn $40 first, then join in on the complaining. I think she'd be better off addressing the issues at hand. I don't know who elmerlee is, but it is nice to see everyone getting lumped in with the FOFC crowd deservingly or not.

Quote:

Elmerlee,

Please, if you are going to comment on the game and its flaws, purchase and play it before commenting.

I realize this is your opinion, and everyone is entitiled to have one, as I am expressing one right now, however it seems to me and me alone I'm sure, that your opinion is based on what you read on the forums.

I kindly request that you purchase the CD version of the game and play it to fully understand how the game works and how it plays.

If you are not happy with the state of this game based entirely on only reading the forums then perhaps you would be better off staying on the FOFC website and expressing your opinions there.

Again, we apologize for your obvious disappoinment over this game, but again, reserve your judgement on the game until you have actually played it.

Kindest regards,

J.L. Winter

cartman · 03-20-2006, 11:36 AM

Maybe Jennifer needs to talk to Farrah about being careful in what she wishes for regarding a paying customer complaining...

CamEdwards · 03-20-2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty

I thought it was an odd argument from Jennifer too. Don't address the concerns he laid out (whether they're still valid or not), just pay your damn $40 first, then join in on the complaining. I think she'd be better off addressing the issues at hand. I don't know who elmerlee is, but it is nice to see everyone getting lumped in with the FOFC crowd deservingly or not.

Your (apparently) non-refundable $40. That's what makes her argument even sillier.

Antmeister · 03-20-2006, 11:41 AM

Actaully if you read what she says, she is saying to purchase the CD version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer Winter

I kindly request that you purchase the CD version of the game and play it to fully understand how the game works and how it plays.

The CD version is $49.99 and yep, no refund.

CamEdwards · 03-20-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Actaully if you read what she says, she is saying to purchase the CD version.
The CD version is $49.99 and yep, no refund.

Balls. Big ones.

Bee · 03-20-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Actaully if you read what she says, she is saying to purchase the CD version.
The CD version is $49.99 and yep, no refund.

I'm surprised she didn't ask him to buy two copies, just to get the full effect of the snake oil...err...game.

Mustang · 03-20-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

I'm surprised she didn't ask him to buy two copies, just to get the full effect of the snake oil...err...game.

She is going to bust out the 'I triple dog dare you to buy this' business sales methodology previously used by Yugo.

Eaglesfan27 · 03-20-2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is my take on the whole debacle. Although, I can understand Matrix having sunk a great deal of time, effort, and money into this guy and trying to recoup at least some of it. But, it will be at the expense of their reputation. If people within Matrix, no matter how supportive, couldn't see months, if not years, ago what a mess and non-product this was destined to be, that causes me to wonder about decision-making at the highest levels of the company.

Would that keep me from buying games from them in the future? Not necessarily, but I'll need to have either independent knowledge of the game developer or hear from a number of people whose opinions I respect that a particular game has been developed for Matrix by a Shaun Sullivan rather than Daivd Winters, and that the game is reasonably solid (I don't expect perfect).

I agree with most of this. However, I think they are going to lose some customers permeantly. My best friend, Gary (who doesn't post on here at all) has sworn off all Matrix products if he isn't given his refund, and I might just join him as a show of support. He is pissed off by the response or lack thereof he has gotten in pursuing a refund.

spcd · 03-20-2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

dola...

I wonder why he wants someone to buy the game before they comment on it. If you just browse through the support section, you can see a number of nasty errors that should have been fixed prior to the game's release. The latest ones are a scheduling problem and not properly calculating positive yards before a fumble. And speaking of fumbles, one person even commented that it doesn't keep track of fumbles. Even after the patches, there appears to be a large number of issues.

Here's an absolute classic

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1091615

It seems that you can make any league, and any rules (aside from the known problems of not being able to use NFL, NCAA, CFL, or Arena) and as long as you always have an even number of teams.

There should be some sort of Oscar posts on forums, I'd nominate one from this thread. No, not the one saying to wait for a 3rd party to make a utility, but the one who says:

Quote:

Just add another team it's less of a hassle and it's less of a headache trying to figure out how to edit the schedule.

What sage advice. I'd add, just play pacman, it's less of a hassle, and it somewhat accurately recreates rushing plays in games where backup players earn 350+ yards per game.

I wonder when the first post asking to wait for a 3rd party graphic football engine to fix the game problems will be posted?

GrantDawg · 03-20-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Actaully if you read what she says, she is saying to purchase the CD version.
The CD version is $49.99 and yep, no refund.

Wow. I new level of idiocy. Just, wow.

Antmeister · 03-20-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spcd

Here's an absolute classic

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1091615

It seems that you can make any league, and any rules (aside from the known problems of not being able to use NFL, NCAA, CFL, or Arena) and as long as you always have an even number of teams.

There should be some sort of Oscar posts on forums, I'd nominate one from this thread. No, not the one saying to wait for a 3rd party to make a utility, but the one who says:

What sage advice. I'd add, just play pacman, it's less of a hassle, and it somewhat accurately recreates rushing plays in games where backup players earn 350+ yards per game.

I wonder when the first post asking to wait for a 3rd party graphic football engine to fix the game problems will be posted?

Yes, that is the thread I was referring to. It's sad too, because Shaggyra has been one of the huge contributors to the game so far. He even has a website set up to download uniforms, utilities and whatnot. Even he is getting tired of hearing that you have to wait for a 3rd party utility to fix another thing for the game.

SirFozzie · 03-20-2006, 12:55 PM

you see, this is what happens when you offer fans customization.. there has to be something solid underneath.. There has to be a THERE, there!

Oh wait.. just got an email..

Matrixx Gamers is proud to announce their next game.. Maximum Calvinball! The game is infinitely customizeable, with support for any ruleset and scoring system you wish! With options to add any third party add on you wish! Want the no-singing zone to be a trapezoid when x=2? We're sure there will be an add on for that! Want to be able to carry a rule changing flag? Our legion of fans will create a third party add on for that too! Want to just run around screaming like a three year old on a sugar rush? You guessed it, our loyal army of suck..er third party developers will happily code an addon for you! Maximum Calvinball, where the only rule is, you can't have the same rule twice! (Sorry no demo)

Cost $49.99 for digital download (an empty text file that is open for customization), $59.99 for CD (with the aforementioned text file)

Ben E Lou · 03-20-2006, 01:32 PM

The best PR move that Matrixgames could make now would be to remove Jennifer Winter's posting privileges. Just wow.

FrogMan · 03-20-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

The best PR move that Matrixgames could make now would be to remove Jennifer Winter's posting privileges. Just wow.

or invisiban her

FM

Ben E Lou · 03-20-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan

or invisiban her

FM

I hope Erik is still reading this thread.

Toddzilla · 03-20-2006, 01:54 PM

Using the "car-wreck / punching-the-driver-in-the-face" analogy, Jennifer strikes me as someone who, trapped in the wreckage as the car catches fire, yells curses and insults at you to free her because it's your duty to do so.

st.cronin · 03-20-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Using the "car-wreck / punching-the-driver-in-the-face" analogy, Jennifer strikes me as someone who, trapped in the wreckage as the car catches fire, yells curses and insults at you to free her because it's your duty to do so.

No, I see her as the sort who, after you save her life, hires a lawyer to sue you.

dervack · 03-20-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Speaking of movies, one director's efforts I thought I would never want to see again...Oliver Stone...but he is the first to bring a very important subject to the big screen (9-11) so I will withhold judgement until I see some reviews.

FYI, I know this is a page late, but Oliver Stone won't be the first to bring 9-11 to the big screen, as United 93(formerly Flight 93) hits the theaters on April 28.

DaddyTorgo · 03-20-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

No, I see her as the sort who, after you save her life, hires a lawyer to sue you.

i heard albionmoonlight was available.

damm...poor poor Shaggyra. He's been such a good Matrix fanboy, and now he's finally seeing the light. Someone want to link him to this thread?

cuervo72 · 03-20-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmerlee

Funbles and ints go from zero to sky-high

Funbles sound really....FUN!

Bee · 03-20-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i heard albionmoonlight was available.

damm...poor poor Shaggyra. He's been such a good Matrix fanboy, and now he's finally seeing the light. Someone want to link him to this thread?

I'm pretty sure he's been here and has a few posts in the thread.

DaddyTorgo · 03-20-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

I'm pretty sure he's been here and has a few posts in the thread.

i stand corrected...he has

shaggyra · 03-20-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i heard albionmoonlight was available.

damm...poor poor Shaggyra. He's been such a good Matrix fanboy, and now he's finally seeing the light. Someone want to link him to this thread?

Dude, I'm here! Been here for a while.

Wouldn't miss this for the world.

And I am very tired of very basic funtions not working and being told to wait for somebody else to come up with a 3rd party solution.

vyshka · 03-20-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

By the way, it still bothers me that I was able to see a refund policy on the US pages. I can consistently show the 14 day refund policy on the UK and Europe pages.

While Erik believes that it was some random error on the US side, I wasn't able to reproduce it again. I still have a sneaking suspicion that someone browsing the boards changed it, but I can't prove it. I do know, however, that Digital River gives you the ability to customize portions of your site. Which portions? I am not sure of that.

I think that has always been the policy. Doesn't it state it on the sales receipt page that comes up with the serial # and the link to download the program? For some reason I remember the policy being all sales final, but no idea where I am remembering it from. It could have been changed, but unlikely. Considering all the bitching and moaning that goes on in this forum about Digital River, why is it hard to believe that maybe they screwed this time as well?

It's a shame to see this happen. I only buy their wargames, but have never run into any issues with them. Whoever was having a problem getting patches for Puresim, what did you have to do? It has been very easy getting patches for all the titles I own from Matrix.

I don't know the history behind M-F , but it sounds like the pooch was screwed on this one. Personally I won't be happy until Dynamix rises from the grave and continues the FPS series.

DaddyTorgo · 03-20-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggyra

Dude, I'm here! Been here for a while.

Wouldn't miss this for the world.

And I am very tired of very basic funtions not working and being told to wait for somebody else to come up with a 3rd party solution.

right. if this was just going to be a "framework" then the price should have been...15.99..maybe 17.99. But to charge $39.99 (or $49.99 for the box) for what was essentially someone's hobby and then to be told that 3rd parties have to step up and develop utilities in order to make basic features function in the way that they were advertised to work in just seems ridiculous. False-advertising at best...I don't know what I'd call it at worst.

And how long till whoever decides to make whatever utility decides to charge for it, further adding to the cost of the game? The whole situation reeks of ridiculousness at this point.

And IMO while I'm on a rant here...that post by Jennifer Winters that others have commented on...I don't know if I have anything to add to that. To suggest that someone should pony up $50 (US) for a game before HRH (her royal highness) will deign to listen to the valid non-gameplay concerns raised by that person, when there is no demo and no refund-policy, is frankly...well...fucking idiotic. WTF kind of business model is that?

And this is the kind of people Matrix are doing business with? That scares me more than anything else, and as someone (SkyDog maybe?) said...that means that I will look at PureSim only because of Shaun Sullivan's track record, and I will have to overcome a newfound tendency to shy away from Matrix if I am to purchase it.

SirFozzie · 03-20-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

And this is the kind of people Matrix are doing business with? That scares me more than anything else, and as someone (SkyDog maybe?) said...that means that I will look at PureSim only because of Shaun Sullivan's track record, and I will have to overcome a newfound tendency to shy away from Matrix if I am to purchase it.

You're welcome

Bee · 03-20-2006, 03:57 PM

I don't think it really matters who made the mistake, if there was an advertised refund policy of 14 days when someone purchased the game I think they have to honor it. From what I understand they've admitted that it was possible to get the 14 day refund policy (by mistake) when accessing the page, so it seems to me it would be between Matrix Games and DR as to which one of them eats the cost, the consumer shouldn't be the one that gets screwed.

DaddyTorgo · 03-20-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

You're welcome

ah fozzie...you fountain of wisdom you.

Antmeister · 03-20-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vyshka

I think that has always been the policy. Doesn't it state it on the sales receipt page that comes up with the serial # and the link to download the program? For some reason I remember the policy being all sales final, but no idea where I am remembering it from. It could have been changed, but unlikely. Considering all the bitching and moaning that goes on in this forum about Digital River, why is it hard to believe that maybe they screwed this time as well?

I wouldn't know personally because I haven't bought one thing from Matrix. I was close to purchasing PureSim but decided to hold out until I see how OOTP turns out. I guess what concerns me is that I could never get it to reproduce that error again.

Erik stated it was random, but I can still see that it reads 14 day refund for both Europe and the UK now. And if you check out Digital River, they have options within their software package that allows you to change details on your web store. Unfortunately I don't know which ones you can specifically edit since I never used it, but it does say that you can edit it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vyshka

It's a shame to see this happen. I only buy their wargames, but have never run into any issues with them. Whoever was having a problem getting patches for Puresim, what did you have to do? It has been very easy getting patches for all the titles I own from Matrix.

While I haven't used Matrix, I have heard good things from the people who have used them. They had a good reputation in the wargaming community. There were a few titles that gave them headaches, but not to the extent of this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vyshka

I don't know the history behind M-F , but it sounds like the pooch was screwed on this one. Personally I won't be happy until Dynamix rises from the grave and continues the FPS series.

Yeah, I missed Dynamix too and its funny, but when they disbanded, I was sure that some other developer would run with the opportunity to create a better version than FBPro '98, yet it never happened. And here we are several years later hoping to capture the magic of that old classic.

Antmeister · 03-20-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

I don't think it really matters who made the mistake, if there was an advertised refund policy of 14 days when someone purchased the game I think they have to honor it. From what I understand they've admitted that it was possible to get the 14 day refund policy (by mistake) when accessing the page, so it seems to me it would be between Matrix Games and DR as to which one of them eats the cost, the consumer shouldn't be the one that gets screwed.

Yeah and considering that this was a critical mistake, it sure is taking a long time to get rid of it entirely from the site. It is still there!

vyshka · 03-20-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

I don't think it really matters who made the mistake, if there was an advertised refund policy of 14 days when someone purchased the game I think they have to honor it. From what I understand they've admitted that it was possible to get the 14 day refund policy (by mistake) when accessing the page, so it seems to me it would be between Matrix Games and DR as to which one of them eats the cost, the consumer shouldn't be the one that gets screwed.

Agreed, whoever is at fault should eat the cost for the refund. Just seemed like a lynching is in progress when M-F seems to be an anomaly rather than par for the course. I don't understand why they would rush M-F out when people have been wondering where Combat Leader, Empire In Arms, Combined Arms and World in Flames are.

st.cronin · 03-20-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

I don't think it really matters who made the mistake, if there was an advertised refund policy of 14 days when someone purchased the game I think they have to honor it. From what I understand they've admitted that it was possible to get the 14 day refund policy (by mistake) when accessing the page, so it seems to me it would be between Matrix Games and DR as to which one of them eats the cost, the consumer shouldn't be the one that gets screwed.

That seems perfectly obvious to me, as well.

miked · 03-20-2006, 04:17 PM

None of you guys ever bought something off Amazon or something that had an error on it and they canceled your order like a day later? All this hype about a company that pretty much said from day 1 they weren't offering a refund...you peeps have lots of time.

Bee · 03-20-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

None of you guys ever bought something off Amazon or something that had an error on it and they canceled your order like a day later? All this hype about a company that pretty much said from day 1 they weren't offering a refund...you peeps have lots of time.

I believe this is much different than a price mistake at amazon.com. For one, the transaction has already taken place. Secondly, most make it clear that prices are subject to change if there's a mistake. As far as I can tell, that doesn't apply to a refund policy. If it were, then they could deny any returns they wanted to by saying their refund policy changed from the time you purchased it.

Edit: As far as the price mistake goes, I think this would be closer to them advertising something at the wrong price but instead of canceling the order charging you the regular price without your authorization. While I don't think what they did was quite so drastic, it's probably closer to what they did than canceling the order.

Antmeister · 03-20-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

None of you guys ever bought something off Amazon or something that had an error on it and they canceled your order like a day later? All this hype about a company that pretty much said from day 1 they weren't offering a refund...you peeps have lots of time.

I am confused here. What we are saying is that if you bought a game with the premise that you were going to get a refund, Matrix should honor it. This is not the same as a cancelled order. A cancelled order costs you no money.

And why do you think that everyone knows that they had no refund policy? You actually have to dig through the Customer Service pages to find it and you can't even get to the Customer Service section through the home page. On top of that, a refund existed before it magically disappeared.

That's like purchasing a DVD from a store that sits under a display that read it has a 30 day return policy. When you get home, you find out the DVD is scratched, chewed on, but its customizable and can be used for a coaster. However that is not what you were expecting, so you return to the store to get your refund with manager telling you that the display never existed and you have to keep your $50 DVD called GWsFBAStartOct29 Greatest Tackles In Shark Ridden Football Arena.

Toddzilla · 03-20-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

you have to keep your $50 DVD called GWsFBAStartOct29 Greatest Tackles In Shark Ridden Football Arena.

Comedy Anthracite

BrianD · 03-20-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

And IMO while I'm on a rant here...that post by Jennifer Winters that others have commented on...I don't know if I have anything to add to that. To suggest that someone should pony up $50 (US) for a game before HRH (her royal highness) will deign to listen to the valid non-gameplay concerns raised by that person, when there is no demo and no refund-policy, is frankly...well...fucking idiotic. WTF kind of business model is that?

To be fair, they probably have plenty of support issues from people that did buy the game. They don't need to be dealing with support issues from people that haven't seen the game yet. She shouldn't be suggesting that he buy the game so that he has a right to complain, she should be suggesting that he back off so they can focus on helping the paying customers.

Toddzilla · 03-20-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

To be fair, they probably have plenty of support issues from people that did buy the game. They don't need to be dealing with support issues from people that haven't seen the game yet. She shouldn't be suggesting that he buy the game so that he has a right to complain, she should be suggesting that he back off so they can focus on helping the paying customers.

More to the point, she should ignore this guy altogether and stop wasting her valuable time crafting public-relation-disaster emails to non-customers.

DaddyTorgo · 03-20-2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

More to the point, she should ignore this guy altogether and stop wasting her valuable time crafting public-relation-disaster emails to non-customers.

ding ding. we have a winner.

03-19-2006, 01:01 AM	#3352
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Schmidty wins the thread. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

03-19-2006, 08:48 AM	#3354
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	By the way, it still bothers me that I was able to see a refund policy on the US pages. I can consistently show the 14 day refund policy on the UK and Europe pages. While Erik believes that it was some random error on the US side, I wasn't able to reproduce it again. I still have a sneaking suspicion that someone browsing the boards changed it, but I can't prove it. I do know, however, that Digital River gives you the ability to customize portions of your site. Which portions? I am not sure of that. __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

03-20-2006, 11:02 AM	#3359
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	Who is elmerlee? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1092479 The damage control that Erik has to do for this product is amazing. And so far the 14 day return policy still shows up. I will have to see if it remains there until the end of the day. __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

03-20-2006, 11:09 AM	#3360
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	dola... I wonder why he wants someone to buy the game before they comment on it. If you just browse through the support section, you can see a number of nasty errors that should have been fixed prior to the game's release. The latest ones are a scheduling problem and not properly calculating positive yards before a fumble. And speaking of fumbles, one person even commented that it doesn't keep track of fumbles. Even after the patches, there appears to be a large number of issues. __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew Last edited by Antmeister : 03-20-2006 at 11:09 AM.

03-20-2006, 11:36 AM	#3363
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Maybe Jennifer needs to talk to Farrah about being careful in what she wishes for regarding a paying customer complaining... __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

03-20-2006, 09:55 AM	#3356
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Has Matrix Games released any announcements concerning the return policy debacle?

03-20-2006, 12:55 PM	#3373
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	you see, this is what happens when you offer fans customization.. there has to be something solid underneath.. There has to be a THERE, there! Oh wait.. just got an email.. Matrixx Gamers is proud to announce their next game.. Maximum Calvinball! The game is infinitely customizeable, with support for any ruleset and scoring system you wish! With options to add any third party add on you wish! Want the no-singing zone to be a trapezoid when x=2? We're sure there will be an add on for that! Want to be able to carry a rule changing flag? Our legion of fans will create a third party add on for that too! Want to just run around screaming like a three year old on a sugar rush? You guessed it, our loyal army of suck..er third party developers will happily code an addon for you! Maximum Calvinball, where the only rule is, you can't have the same rule twice! (Sorry no demo) Cost $49.99 for digital download (an empty text file that is open for customization), $59.99 for CD (with the aforementioned text file) __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

03-20-2006, 01:32 PM	#3374
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	The best PR move that Matrixgames could make now would be to remove Jennifer Winter's posting privileges. Just wow. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-20-2006, 01:54 PM	#3377
Toddzilla Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burke, VA	Using the "car-wreck / punching-the-driver-in-the-face" analogy, Jennifer strikes me as someone who, trapped in the wreckage as the car catches fire, yells curses and insults at you to free her because it's your duty to do so.

03-20-2006, 03:57 PM	#3388
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I don't think it really matters who made the mistake, if there was an advertised refund policy of 14 days when someone purchased the game I think they have to honor it. From what I understand they've admitted that it was possible to get the 14 day refund policy (by mistake) when accessing the page, so it seems to me it would be between Matrix Games and DR as to which one of them eats the cost, the consumer shouldn't be the one that gets screwed.

03-20-2006, 04:17 PM	#3394
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	None of you guys ever bought something off Amazon or something that had an error on it and they canceled your order like a day later? All this hype about a company that pretty much said from day 1 they weren't offering a refund...you peeps have lots of time.

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