FOFC Deeproute League

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by dbd1963

It might have been me. My awesome draft strategy netted me two starting punters, two starting kickers, and two starting fullbacks.

Hey, me too!

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Autumn

My team, the Racine Legion, have been up and down. I had one big win, one close loss and then a couple thrashings. I've tried switching QBs, I'm not quite clear what's the problem with my passing game. My defense I think is pretty good though they've been burned for long bombs quite a bit. I've mostly been hosed on special teams. I signed a great looking punter off of free agency though. who cut this guy?

I'm concentrating on shuffling my roster at this point. I don't have a good enough sense of who's good and bad to really think too much about tweaking the gameplan.

Have you messed with your playbook at all? There are very minor tweaks you can make to make up for deficiencies or take advantage of strengths.

[wade moore]

I'm trying to get into this game, but I'm really starting to feel like the game engine itself may have issues.

My QB is performing VERY poorly despite pretty good ratings, so I started to look around the league.

Right now in our league after 6 weeks 11 of the top 32 qb's in attempts have under a 50% completion rate. Several of those are closer to 40 than 50, and one is even at 31%. If you look at the NFL last year, only 12 of the top 32 QB's in attempt had under a 60% completion and zero under a 50% completion.

The interception rate is also very, very high. Again, going by the top 32 in completions - 19 NFL QB's had 10-15 INT's, 3 over 15, 10 under 10.

In our deeproute league, in 6 games, 6 qb's have double digit int's already. Every QB with 8+ INTs are on pace for 20 INTs. We have 13 QB's with 8+ INTs. So 1/3 of the QB's in the league are on pace for 20+ TDs. Exactly one QB had 20+ INTs in the NFL last season.


I want to look at rushing too, but something is going on at work right now so I have to step away.

[21C]

I think those stats are an indication of the league. I'm in another league that has a 10 season history and the QB stats have gone the other way. These are the stats from the most recent season.

DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com

The talent level rises over time. I haven't decided if it's a good or bad thing yet but there are a lot of players having long careers. I'm not sure if it something to do with the player creation or retirement algorithm but my other league still has players unsigned in free agency with ratings in the 80s. A lot of it is related to owners trying to stay under the cap which gets very hard to do the longer you stick around.

You can't see it now but one of the real strengths of Deeproute is the salary structure. I have found it very challenging to field a strong team while juggling salary demands and bonuses. I have often had to cut strong players with diminishing skills just to stay under the cap. We are currently playing in the FOFC league without bonuses but once you start trying to balance signing players as well as having to cut someone and eat their bonus money, it gets mighty tricky and is a real strength of the game.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by 21C

I think those stats are an indication of the league. I'm in another league that has a 10 season history and the QB stats have gone the other way. These are the stats from the most recent season.

DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com

The talent level rises over time. I haven't decided if it's a good or bad thing yet but there are a lot of players having long careers. I'm not sure if it something to do with the player creation or retirement algorithm but my other league still has players unsigned in free agency with ratings in the 80s. A lot of it is related to owners trying to stay under the cap which gets very hard to do the longer you stick around.

You can't see it now but one of the real strengths of Deeproute is the salary structure. I have found it very challenging to field a strong team while juggling salary demands and bonuses. I have often had to cut strong players with diminishing skills just to stay under the cap. We are currently playing in the FOFC league without bonuses but once you start trying to balance signing players as well as having to cut someone and eat their bonus money, it gets mighty tricky and is a real strength of the game.

Ok, those stats look a lot better.

So what's wrong with our league? I understand shifts in performance, but this is rather extreme. It's great that after 10 years it could get better, but what about now?

I also notice that the problem seems to have shifted to the running game. The ypc is terrible compared to the NFL.

So, is it improving or is the problem just shifting?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm trying to get into this game, but I'm really starting to feel like the game engine itself may have issues.

My QB is performing VERY poorly despite pretty good ratings, so I started to look around the league.

Right now in our league after 6 weeks 11 of the top 32 qb's in attempts have under a 50% completion rate. Several of those are closer to 40 than 50, and one is even at 31%. If you look at the NFL last year, only 12 of the top 32 QB's in attempt had under a 60% completion and zero under a 50% completion.

The interception rate is also very, very high. Again, going by the top 32 in completions - 19 NFL QB's had 10-15 INT's, 3 over 15, 10 under 10.

In our deeproute league, in 6 games, 6 qb's have double digit int's already. Every QB with 8+ INTs are on pace for 20 INTs. We have 13 QB's with 8+ INTs. So 1/3 of the QB's in the league are on pace for 20+ TDs. Exactly one QB had 20+ INTs in the NFL last season.


I want to look at rushing too, but something is going on at work right now so I have to step away.

My two cents is that a six game sample size is too small. Additionally, perhaps the n00b aspect of the owners may have something to do with it as well. I know I'm still trying to figure out my offense and see which players perform better and which ones don't. I have my team skewed towards long-term viability by playing younger players over older, better players in some areas.

[21C]

Yeah, I think it is people getting used to their players and who is best at each position. I remember when I first took over a team (on their way to a 4-12 record), I was juggling my higher rated QB who threw 2TDs with 11 INTs against a lower rated guy who had 14-15. The next year I picked up a 12 year veteran QB as a backup, more as an afterthought, and he proceeded to throw 38 TDs with 8 picks. And I never planned on starting him but my first choice had a terrible preseason.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by 21C

Yeah, I think it is people getting used to their players and who is best at each position. I remember when I first took over a team (on their way to a 4-12 record), I was juggling my higher rated QB who threw 2TDs with 11 INTs against a lower rated guy who had 14-15. The next year I picked up a 12 year veteran QB as a backup, more as an afterthought, and he proceeded to throw 38 TDs with 8 picks. And I never planned on starting him but my first choice had a terrible preseason.

But what about the running game?

[21C]

Do you mean the league's running game now/then or my running game?

Here is the league's rushing leaders from my other team last season.
DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com

Here is my roster for this season.
DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com

My starter is the guy rated 61/61. His production is pretty low for this season after two games but he has consistently out-performed higher rated players at RB on my team for the last couple of seasons.

Sometimes I think certain player combinations seem to go together well. Like a RB matched up with a type of OL. I try to keep my OL (and DL) as strong as I can and I can often get good results with lower rated players behind them.

Another case in point is a DE on my team. He had 38 sacks in two seasons before I signed him. He has had 4 sacks in 7+ seasons for me since then. Another DE had two 10 sack seasons in 7 seasons and then broke out for 19 in 13 games before hit with injury. I have been trying different players in different spots/sides and something seemed to work with this guy but I am still in the dark with the safety positions.

[wade moore]

I'm talking about the league numbers.

The league you linked the QB numbers seem a lot better, but the RB numbers are down quite a bit (ypc specifically). In the NFL you usually have a chunk of guys over 5.0, some in the high 4's, and then a bunch in the low 4's. Here your best guys are more like mid 4's and then down from there.

[lordscarlet]

My QB has 1 INT and a 59.% completion percentage. He is only on pace for 10 TD, though.

My starting RB is averaging 4.9 YPC

[billgulch]

Hey Guys!

Just an update on things :

I've been snowed under with the new job. Since I'm pretty familiar with things due to my last stint, I was able to hit the ground running. They're working me about 60 hours a week right now (but I am thinking / hoping / praying that will back down in a week or two). Couple that with simply trying to RUN the games and keep up with e-mails and family.. and you can imagine I'm not really getting to do much else at the moment.

I was actually planning on posting on the FOFC central site for a couple of weeks before I did, but wanted to see if I was going to get called back into the contract job. Once I was pretty sure things wre looking bleak, I decided to post so I could give you guys my undivided attention. That didn't quite work out as I had hoped, unfortunately.

I will try to check back over there when I get a chance; I haven't forgotten about you guys. I still have your suggestions on the top of my board (the ones we agree are "show stoppers".)

Thansk again for hanging in there.

--Mike

[lordscarlet]

For anyone that is interested, grendel, one of the top Deeproute players (and I think he volunteers to help some with the site -- I'm actually not sure if he has an official role, but he's very helpful in the chat) has offered to help in any way he can. If you have questions that he may or may not be able to help with, feel free to hit him up with the name grendel and at the other DR url, which is vofl.com (trying to avoid him gettin ghit by spam bots )

[Autumn]

WEll, one feature I would suggest is e-mail reminders about games posted, maybe. There was a couple days where I kept checking in to see if the next game had been run and it hadn't. It then slipped my mind and I didn't check for I don't know how long, but four weeks have passed in game time. This is the sort of thing that will just slip my mind if I don't have any reminders, and since we can't count on games at an exact schedule I think it would be good to have opt-in or opt-out email contacts.

Lucky for me my team went on a winning streak while I was gone. I must be one of those meddlesome GMs.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Autumn

WEll, one feature I would suggest is e-mail reminders about games posted, maybe. There was a couple days where I kept checking in to see if the next game had been run and it hadn't. It then slipped my mind and I didn't check for I don't know how long, but four weeks have passed in game time. This is the sort of thing that will just slip my mind if I don't have any reminders, and since we can't count on games at an exact schedule I think it would be good to have opt-in or opt-out email contacts.

Lucky for me my team went on a winning streak while I was gone. I must be one of those meddlesome GMs.

But wouldn't you get annoyed if you were keeping up and you kept getting emails? Then you opt-out, forget, and get annoyed? I don't know, it's hard to think of the best situation here.

[SirFozzie]

How about a daily email:

I'd love to have an email every morning with: Injury status, last game results (I know a lot of people would prefer not to be spoiled, so it's a matter of what you want), standings, etcetera?

[rjolley]

If the email could consolidate all of your teams into one email, I would be ok with getting the standings, injuries, last game results, etc.

[lordscarlet]

That reminds me, the injury page needs more info. I'm a forgetful dumbass and I sometimes forget who was injured the week before so I have trouble remembering who needs to be moved back to the active lineup.

[Autumn]

I agree with the e-mail ideas here. I would stay much more involved with my team with some updates and reminders.

As for injuries, I don't know if you found it, but when you click on an injured person's injury status it opens a page which lists all your past and current injuries. That might help for what you're talking about, though it's a rather roundabout way to get that information.

[lordscarlet]

When you click on their injury status where? I don't see that on the injury page, the roster page nor the player page.

[Autumn]

I think when I clicked on a player in the roster screen, and clicked on where it said OUT or Rest to Heal on their player card.

[lordscarlet]

I don't see "OUT" or "Rest to Heal" on the playercard, which is another complaint of mine.

[rjolley]

If you click on "Click here to show player attributes" on the player card, their injury status is shown.

You can get to the injury report for your team from the team info page or from My Teams+ => Team name => Other Options+ => Injury Report.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by rjolley

If you click on "Click here to show player attributes" on the player card, their injury status is shown.

You can get to the injury report for your team from the team info page or from My Teams+ => Team name => Other Options+ => Injury Report.

God that's awful. But, now that you mention it, the injury page (which I already knew existed) does show the week they were injured, so through some math you should be able to figure out if they just recovered, but it would be nice to note that somewhere. I definitely think their current injury status should not be hidden away under attributes.

[dbd1963]

I would like to say that my experience of this game is overall more positive this time. I think that is simply because I'm more familiar with it, and I've learned more about it through the forum over on the deeproute site.

Last time I played, my team did about the same as this team is doing now. In fact, I made the championship game in my second year. But I didn't really feel a connection to my players because I did not understand what made them good or bad. (Overall does not really tell you even if they'll be good or bad, as we've discussed.) The more I learn about how the ratings work, the more I seem to feel a connection to my players. And the more I feel connected to them, the more I enjoy the game.

So, to turn this into a usable insight, I guess it would be better for new players to learn about what makes players good much earlier in the process. As it is now, it takes a lot of searching around in the forums.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by dbd1963

I would like to say that my experience of this game is overall more positive this time. I think that is simply because I'm more familiar with it, and I've learned more about it through the forum over on the deeproute site.

Last time I played, my team did about the same as this team is doing now. In fact, I made the championship game in my second year. But I didn't really feel a connection to my players because I did not understand what made them good or bad. (Overall does not really tell you even if they'll be good or bad, as we've discussed.) The more I learn about how the ratings work, the more I seem to feel a connection to my players. And the more I feel connected to them, the more I enjoy the game.

So, to turn this into a usable insight, I guess it would be better for new players to learn about what makes players good much earlier in the process. As it is now, it takes a lot of searching around in the forums.

Yeah, I think the overall consensus is that there is a high level of entry for this game. You can't just check it out. You have to really dig in to enjoy it or have any idea what is going on.

[21C]

I agree that this game can be daunting when you first start playing but I have found it to be the most fulfilling game experience I have had for some time.

It helps if you can watch your games play out. I remember when I first signed up, I used to just check out the box score after the game and couldn't get a real feel for my players or the game itself. After that first season, I have watched every single game play out. I watch my games with the 1 second delay - I think it takes about 10-15 minutes to watch the whole game.

Watching the game tells you more than the stats do. You might have two QBs who go 15-30 for 200 yards. One of them goes 3-and-out, 3-and-out and then throws a 65 yard bomb while the other guy makes 4 and 5 yard completions all game to move the sticks.

[dbd1963]

Now that I'm starting to focus on the draft, I am noticing a problem. It seems to be worst in the case of LT vs RT. These two positions really need to be staffed by different types of players. I have an awesome LT, but my RT sucks. I know there will be a couple of tackles available when I pick, but I want a RT, not a LT. The only way to force the pick right now is to elevate the RT over the LT in my draft order, but this seems clumsy.

One way to mitigate it would be for the game to differentiate LTs from RTs, but I don't know if that's going to be easy to do.

Other positions have similar problems -- LBs would be an obvious one. Here too, I've got a great MLB, but my OLBs could use some work. But there's no way to differentiated between them in the draft.

I think the easiest way for this to be resolved is for the game to do the differentiating up front -- label everyone according to a specific position. Then maybe we can get the added feature of being able to change positions if we think the change could work. But that may not be the perfect solution. Does anyone else have any ideas?

[lordscarlet]

I think you can make the argument that this applies to skill positions as well. Do you want a scat back or a power back? Do you want a deep threat or a posession receiver? I think the best you can do is rank your specific players and let it spin. I think what the site really needs is to allow for a live draft a-la Conscriptor.

[DeToxRox]

Oh come on .. my first round game is vs the Bossman himself, Bill Gulch!

[dbd1963]

Live draft would rock. And the present method would serve as a stand in for those who couldn't make it.

Except that it would take forever..

I am starting to grasp the concept of just banishing guys you don't need to the last bit of the draft. But in the real world, a GM would engineer a trade back if a good player he didn't need was sitting there when his turn came.

[SirFozzie]

So glad that Tennessee won their last game.. it means we're a 1 or 2 seed and have homefield for a 2nd round game, rather then traveling on Wild Card Weekend.

[dbd1963]

Seattle went 12-4 and we still have to play wild card weekend. But I'm not complaining, seeing as we only beat one winning team. And they went 9-7.

[lordscarlet]

We also squeaked into the bye week, but at the expense of my srarting RB.

So my WR2 (who gets far more yards than WR1) is out until the conf championship week. My TE1 is RtH and is playing through it. My RB is out for 46 weeks with a torn ACL. Ugh.

[dbd1963]

That is a tough string of luck you had there, ls. Sympathies.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by dbd1963

That is a tough string of luck you had there, ls. Sympathies.

Luckily my backup RB did well in relief. My WR has been injured several other times during the year, and my TE was out for 5 weeks, came back for 1, went out for 5, and then got injured again after 1 or 2 weeks on the roster. Apparently I need to beef up the work out regimen.

[DeToxRox]

We beat Louisville 28-14 in the WC round and now take on RSR's squad.

[dbd1963]

Seattle defeated Chicago in the WC round and will now face New Orleans. Looks like a tough game for us.

I have to say, now that I know more about what each position requires for a player to be good (and that "overall" doesn't mean much) I am enjoying the game more. I still wish the overall meant more than it does. What does it mean?

[lordscarlet]

Looks like it's the Parrots for us. Seems that their defense is banged up. They have a CB out, a CB RtH and a (stud) DE RtH. A G is out as well. We'll see how this plays out. We faced them in the first week of preseason games, so there's no real indicator as to how we match up.

[dbd1963]

Man, I have worked for hours on my drafting strategy. I hope I have this figured out right, or I'll be making some dang bizarre picks..

And a personal message to Mike: I want to leaven my complaints with the fact that I am enjoying this game very much. I'm even a paying customer! So please don't get irritated by all the nit-picking.

Having said that, I do wish the draft procedure was a little easier somehow.

[DeToxRox]

We beat Charlottesville 24-17 behind another solid defensive effort. Our offense continues to manage games and score when we need it. We now face a tough Seattle team for a right to go to the Title game.

[dbd1963]

That should be a titanic battle. Our defense has really turned it up a notch in the playoffs, and somehow, my very average QB has become an icon of efficiency, leading all QBs in the playoffs right now in QB rating.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by dbd1963

That should be a titanic battle. Our defense has really turned it up a notch in the playoffs, and somehow, my very average QB has become an icon of efficiency, leading all QBs in the playoffs right now in QB rating.

Yes. Your D is awesome, and you're rolling as of late. My offense puts together good drives but also has stretches where we don't do anything. Hopefully the D is ready to win us one. Good luck sir.

[Autumn]

Good luck guys. I'm packed up for the offseason hoping something comes up in the draft to get me over hte .500 hump.

[dbd1963]

Thanks DeToxRox -- good luck to you also!

Autumn, I don't know the game that well, but from my point of view right now, there are a lot of good players going into the 2nd round. I think everybody should get a little better after the upcoming draft.

[lordscarlet]

WTF happened?? My defense fell apart against the Parrots. Ohwell, here's to next year!

[SirFozzie]

The Parrots are a very good team, theat had a real bad streak at the end of the year. I'm hopeful that the Thunderwolves can beat em

[dbd1963]

I'm like a cat on a hotplate right now. I never expected to get Seattle this far, and now that I'm here I'm pulling my hair out over DeTox's defense. That unit looks stout, and my offense is quite anemic against good defenses, which appears to be the case for DeToxRox's team too. So this should be some kind of war. It may come down to who has the better kicker.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by dbd1963

I'm like a cat on a hotplate right now. I never expected to get Seattle this far, and now that I'm here I'm pulling my hair out over DeTox's defense. That unit looks stout, and my offense is quite anemic against good defenses, which appears to be the case for DeToxRox's team too. So this should be some kind of war. It may come down to who has the better kicker.

Well then I think you win. Let's just say I am not my kicker biggest fan

[dbd1963]

Congratulations to the winners, condolences to the losers. The championship game is set, and should be a great one.