Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Very new to MMA. Anybody know somewhere I can get the who's who and the what's what?

I have tried to figure it out lately but it seems like there are just so many different "leagues."

Is there a good place to go to find out when the fights are and what channel? Most stuff Pay-Per-View?

Sherdog can be a good site for that, and while their forums can also be informative, it's probably the biggest cesspool of idiots on the internet. There are a bunch of other 'news and rumor' kind of sites like mmanews, mmaweekly, mmatorch (the list could go on for a while). Mostly though from what I've found, alot of sites (like sherdog) will give you reminders a few days before the show but if you want to know weeks in advance, generally you need to goto the official sites or the forums.

As for the actual 'leagues' I'd say the pecking order goes something like -

UFC (undoubtedly the deepest talent pool, and if you're paying to watch where you're going to have the best chance to get your monies worth)

WEC (Some of the best MMA you can watch, and it's free on the VS network, another big show sept 10, alot of replays of shows on VS also. Several elite talents in weight divisions UFC does not have)

Affliction (not the best production, or marketing/coverage but they seem intent on putting on some stacked cards even if it puts them out of business. PPV only thus far but still in it's infancy.)

Elite XC (free shows on showtime and CBS, another CBS show coming up in oct, one in august and 1 in sept for showtime I believe. Decent talent level, but aside from a handful of fighters, a definate step down from the promotions above.)

Strikeforce (also shown on showtime I believe, they co promote with Elite XC)

Then you have alot of good foreign MMA with DREAM and Sengoku and some others but they're harder to watch in the US, and an even steeper learning curve to familiarize yourself with them. Pretty much everything else falls into minor league at best.

however, Condit's punches at that point were also exhausted and they were doing barely any damage. If anything the ref couldve stood them up but to stop it when Condit was in essence slapping him with those final punches was a disservice. If that we're the 5th I'd say it shouldve gone to the scorecards. The ref was awfully fast to stand them up for not "advancing position" when miura was on top but with Condit he gave him more time.....Keep in mind I was rooting for Condit but I thought the ref did a poor job.

I agree the ref did some questionable stand ups to Miura, and Condit wasn't really doing any damage. I just think at that point, Miura was too exhausted to defend himself so if they'd of stood them up if Miura could of even stand, he'd be at real risk of injury or getting KTFO for no reason. I also think its a match where he put everything he had into it and he deserves an eventual rematch just because it was so close.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

GSP was obviously very impressive, but I think Lesnar just stole the show with his DOMINATING performance. Herring just couldn't do anything against him. His antics at the very end and afterward were very WWE-ish, but it is nice to see some potential in the heavyweight division.

So here's my take on Lesnar. He was dominant however he absolutely wasted many an opportunity to apply a submission or attempt to get some hooks in. He simply played a smothering game which he knew would win the decision but, if that's a sign of a weakness, than he knows what to focus on in camp, which is sumbissions.

His antics at the end were somewhat disgraceful and makes me wonder if UFC isn't grooming him as the heavyweight monster in sort of a heel role. If they can accomplish that, ie. bring a tiny tiny bit of WWE in while WWE fails to bring a tiny bit of UFC into their game, it could be huge for ratings, merchandising, and growth of the company. It certainly is a gamble in MMA as tides can turn and results can throw wrenches but if done right it could be an era of good v. evil in the UFC heavyweight division which would be awfully cool.

Me and a friend are going to the WEC event on Sept. 10 and am very excited to see the matches and go to a casino for the first time in a long time.

[Calis]

Yeah I agree that Lesnar dominated but I still ended up disappointed. It was a good win against a decent gatekeeper in the heavyweight division. It at least gives him some cred, and I'll be anxious to see who they match him up against next. His antics pretty much assured I'll be rooting against him.

Guy has unbelievable potential though, but it'll be interesting to see how much he works on rounding out his game and what he makes of it. Last night I kept thinking he was some sort of new improved version of Dan Severn, and that's not something that excited me.

Not sure who is a good next match for him. Could they do Kongo? He's a guy who has some wins now, and I think ends up being a pretty good match-up for Lesnar. He's complete crap on the ground, and I think Lesnar could take him down before getting much damage done. I'm not sure who else is a good match for him. I still think you want to keep him away from a great Jiu-Jitsu guy like Werdum, and there's not many options out there unless they want to feed him a can.

I still think GSP's performance was more impressive though. Lesnar beat a mid-level heavyweight, and GSP dismantled one of the tops in the weight class. Props to Fitch though, man that guy took a beating and kept coming. I think he made a lot of new fans from that fight.

GSP/Penn I'll be very anxious to see. Penn had the first match in hand but as usual his cardio failed him. If he actually trains and doesn't bloat up to get to 170 it could be a very interesting fight.

I was pretty hyped for this card, the three main fights I thought all had potential to be very interesting, and all three ended up being pretty much one-sided affairs. Still a pretty fun card overall.

[dervack]

Yeah, I think it was hinted at this weekend that kongo would be next for Lesnar. And while I have no doubt that his lack of submission skills prevented him from finishing the fight against Herring, part of me thinks that Lesnar just wanted to absolutely club Herring into submission too.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Sherdog can be a good site for that, and while their forums can also be informative, it's probably the biggest cesspool of idiots on the internet. There are a bunch of other 'news and rumor' kind of sites like mmanews, mmaweekly, mmatorch (the list could go on for a while). Mostly though from what I've found, alot of sites (like sherdog) will give you reminders a few days before the show but if you want to know weeks in advance, generally you need to goto the official sites or the forums.

As for the actual 'leagues' I'd say the pecking order goes something like -

UFC (undoubtedly the deepest talent pool, and if you're paying to watch where you're going to have the best chance to get your monies worth)

WEC (Some of the best MMA you can watch, and it's free on the VS network, another big show sept 10, alot of replays of shows on VS also. Several elite talents in weight divisions UFC does not have)

Affliction (not the best production, or marketing/coverage but they seem intent on putting on some stacked cards even if it puts them out of business. PPV only thus far but still in it's infancy.)

Elite XC (free shows on showtime and CBS, another CBS show coming up in oct, one in august and 1 in sept for showtime I believe. Decent talent level, but aside from a handful of fighters, a definate step down from the promotions above.)

Strikeforce (also shown on showtime I believe, they co promote with Elite XC)

Then you have alot of good foreign MMA with DREAM and Sengoku and some others but they're harder to watch in the US, and an even steeper learning curve to familiarize yourself with them. Pretty much everything else falls into minor league at best.

Thanks for the help. Appreciated.

[TLK]

[DaddyTorgo]

that's a big risk to take with Kimbo. Shamrock is no spring chicken, but he's not horribly out of shape like Tank, and he is a former really badass dude. Hope he submits Kimbo or knocks his ass out.

[Rich1033]

Have you seen shamrock fight recently? Hes completely and totally washed up and has been for a few years. He has nothing left. This will just be another can for Kimbo, barely better than Tank IMO.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

Have you seen shamrock fight recently? Hes completely and totally washed up and has been for a few years. He has nothing left. This will just be another can for Kimbo, barely better than Tank IMO.

aaah. Nope - can't say I've seen Shammy fight at all recently. Well that's too bad then, and a shame that he's taking a payday to essentially "do a job" for Kimbo

[Deattribution]

Shamrock has a better chance of knocking himself out than he does of knocking Kimbo out. He got KTFO in his last match by a complete can.

[Calis]

Yeah Shamrock is a joke anymore. Still a good fight for Kimbo though, because if they had him fight Rogers or someone along those lines he more than likely would be murdered. Shamrock is washed up, but is still a name and will bring some attention. He's also usually good for a laugh and pre-fight hype. I still break out, "I'll beat you into living death" occasionally. Classic lines.

The guy got knocked out by Sakuraba. I love Sakuraba, but he's not someone who is prone to ko'ing people on the feet. I think this is a pretty safe bet for Kimbo. I can't remember the last time Shamrock looked good. Probably against Fujita before he threw in the towel. That was something like 7-8 years ago.

[Eaglesfan27]

As a person who has only marginally followed MMA and has only really picked it up in the last few months, I think this is a smart fight. If I hadn't read your analysis on here, I'd have no idea that Shamrock was a can now. I remember hearing the name from years ago, and from what I remember, he was one of the biggest stars of the sport.

[Flasch186]

which is why people who 'dont' normally watch may tune in...its a good marketing move for them if theyre truly selling to CBS and not so much the MMA aficionado.

[Rich1033]

If is a good fight to get some ratings, but this may backfire. I mean this will be a short fight and probably very ugly for Shamrock. I will be interested to see if people are like WTF, why did I bother watching? Ideally, IMO, you want your main event to actually be a half decent fight.

[PilotMan]

Well that's just it. They want new viewers to the sport. Here they plug Shamrock's history, and Kimbo either wins a blowout, and gets a MMA Legend on his win column, and something he can brag about, or he loses to an MMA Legend.

The rest of us know better. Shamrock is totally washed up, and a win here doesn't move Kimbo any closer toward a legit MMA fighter.

[SirFozzie]

File this under "Stupid MMA Tricks"

Seems Jon Koppenhaver was not a happy man after his fight with Yoshiyuki Yoshida. Not with the decision (he lost by submission after being choked out).. by the fact that the announcers didn't use his nickname.

Seems TNA Wrestling has trademarked the phrase "The War Machine", (for Rhino), and was threatening UFC if they used it.

So, Koppenhaver decided that this just would not do. He did the only thing that came to his mind... No, not get a new nickname. That would be too easy.

He's submitted documents to change his legal name from Jon Koppenhaver.. to War Machine. That's right. His legal name will be War Machine.

I can just see him at the airport.

"Would Mr. Machine please come to the booking desk? Mr. War Machine, to the booking desk please?" (Followed by TSA security, probably rather interested in such a name on a long flight)

What a moron.

[TLK]

UFC Media Conference Call Live Coverage




4:12pm ET — Dana White has announced that UFC heavyweight champion Randy Couture will take on Brock Lesnar at UFC 91 on November 15th in Las Vegas. Both Couture and Lesnar are on the call.

4:17pm ET — Nogueira and Mir will still fight at UFC 92 for the interim heavyweight title then the winners of both bouts will unify the titles in early-2009.

[MikeVic]

Way too early for Brock I think. What has he done to deserve it?

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Way too early for Brock I think. What has he done to deserve it?

He beat the Undertaker and the Big Show in a handicap tables, ladders and midgets on a pole match. If that's not impressive, nothing is.

[Neuqua]

Agreed, Brock shouldn't really stand much of a chance I would think. Unless Couture's been doing nothing but eating dorito's since his last "retirement."

[Rich1033]

Yeah, rumors of this have been going crazy for a week or two. Glad to see it finally confirmed. I believe the UFC is really going to try hard to get the Randy/Fedor match done as well.

Lesnar vs Couture should be very interesting. I look forward to seeing the game plan Randy comes up with.

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Way too early for Brock I think. What has he done to deserve it?

With Mir and Nog tied up in the next Ultimate Fighter and scheduled to fight at UFC 92 there isnt really any other choice for a November opponent besides Lesnar, plus Im sure Randy wants the huge payday it will bring. Maybe Kongo, but that wont draw much interest. The UFC HW division isnt exactly loaded right now.

[Calis]

Randy is a very good matchup for Brock. No way in hell does he deserve it, but if they want Brock to be a champion that's a pretty good move. He stands a lot better chance against Randy than he does against Big Nog.

I hate to see it though. I want to see Randy's next fight be against Fedor. If he loses this one it takes a lot of luster off that fight, because the talk will immediately come back that Randy is done, and it'll mean less.

Randy has always had trouble against bigger guys though, and I see him having a LOT of trouble in this fight. I wonder how much Dana had to pay Randy to get this? Unless Randy knew he was going to lose in court, and is looking to cash in.

[Travis]

Should be interesting to watch, both are strong wrestlers so could be a technique vs strength match. Can't imagine Randy is going to want to stand with Brock but instead rely on wrestling to set up a submission. Does seem like small gain vs huge risk for Couture, but he seems quite intent on cutting ties with the UFC so taking any match offered to fulfill his obligations may be helping make the decision here?

[Rich1033]

Im pretty sure this is a multi-fight deal and not just a one and done for Couture. It says the winner of Couture/Lesner will fight the winner of Nog/Mir to unify the HW title. MMAJunkie also says in their article that its a multi-fight deal for further confirmation.

If you look at it from UFC's point of view, if they can manage to put together the Fedor/Randy match instead of Affliction, doesnt that reduce the chances that they survive as a fight organization? They are already bleeding money as is.

[Deattribution]

From a money standpoint, Couture vs Lesnar is worth more money than Couture vs Fedor until the UFC hype machine gets behind it. Most mainstream people don't know anything about Fedor.

Couture doesn't stand much chance against Fedor anyway, he's never proven to be an elite striker (Chuck Liddell pwns Couture) and Fedor's ground game makes him look like Alexander Karelin in comparison to Couture.

And speaking of not deserving title shots, what did Randy do to deserve his shot? Get KTFO twice by Liddell and beat Mike Van Arsdale?

It's a weak division, and Lesnar has a real chance of winning the match, so he's as deserving as anyone else (except maybe Fabricio Werdum, but nobody would pay to see that).

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

Im pretty sure this is a multi-fight deal and not just a one and done for Couture. It says the winner of Couture/Lesner will fight the winner of Nog/Mir to unify the HW title. MMAJunkie also says in their article that its a multi-fight deal for further confirmation.

If you look at it from UFC's point of view, if they can manage to put together the Fedor/Randy match instead of Affliction, doesnt that reduce the chances that they survive as a fight organization? They are already bleeding money as is.

I think Couture has two fights left with the UFC under his current contract (3 tops I believe) and unless there's been some recent headway in the UFC luring Fedor into a contract, best chance for Randy to get to fight him is t come back, finish off his contract and then do the Fedor fight while he can still physically represent himself well.

If he's signed a new deal (Couture that is), I'd take that as a heavy indicator that UFC has made progress with Fedor which of course would be huge for not only solidifying their HW division, but dealing Affliction a huge blow.

[dervack]

It's a new 3 fight deal for Randy and it's been speculated that as part of his new agreement, Dana and the UFC might be willing to co-promote a PPV with M-1 Global to get Fedor into a match with Randy.

[DaddyTorgo]

idk why anyone wants to see Fedor destroy Randy. idk why Randy would even want to take that match. I think he has virtually no shot at beating Fedor, it's essentially going to just be a slaughter.

[Flasch186]

randy v brock is still great

[Calis]

Ouch.

That was pretty brutal.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Calis

Ouch.

That was pretty brutal.

As bad if not worse than the Cro Cop KO.

[SirFozzie]

See it while you can.

YouTube - liddell evans knockout

I say.. WORSE then Cro Cop

[Travis]

Great knockout, but I still have to go with the Cro Cop one as being worse because first it looked like it broke his neck, then you see the way his leg folded and well, damn.

[Bonegavel]

Watched this at a bar last night and is the first time I watched UFC in toto and I really enjoyed it.

Previously, every time I would come across the UFC on t.v., all I would see were 2 guys hugging on the floor and that just wasn't very exciting to me. Now that I had a friend to explain it all and show me what I was missing, I will be watching this from now on. Good stuff.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Watched this at a bar last night and is the first time I watched UFC in toto and I really enjoyed it.

Previously, every time I would come across the UFC on t.v., all I would see were 2 guys hugging on the floor and that just wasn't very exciting to me. Now that I had a friend to explain it all and show me what I was missing, I will be watching this from now on. Good stuff.

That is the number 1 misconception about MMA is that it is just "two guys hugging on the floor". The more you watch, the more you will learn about what they are actually doing. Trying to improve their position, trying to setup a submission attempt, ground and pound etc. Meanwhile the guy on the bottom is trying to do everything he can to avoid all that. So even when the fight goes to ground, it is a very strategic part of the sport and can be very interesting.

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by Travis

Great knockout, but I still have to go with the Cro Cop one as being worse because first it looked like it broke his neck, then you see the way his leg folded and well, damn.

+1

Looks like Rashad now gets the title fight against Forrest.

[dervack]

Why? Rashad is a boring fighter. When he takes it to the ground, he doesn't try and advance his position. When he stands, he flails his arms around to make it look like he's throwing punches. I hope Forrest destroys him.

[MrDNA]

I can't imagine Rashad gets a title shot. Sure, he knocked the snot out of an over-the-hill former champ (I miss the old Chuck!), but that doesn't make him elite.

[PilotMan]

I honestly don't see how Rashad with a win over a guy who wasn't exactly on a winning streak gets a title shot in a division as deep at the LH division is. I would think that he would have to do it again in order to earn that chance.

[Oilers9911]

In the UFC, rankings mean nothing. It's about the big money fight not the most logical fight. That is how you explain Lesnar vs Coture.

[PilotMan]

Lesnar I can actually understand. Nearly unlimited potential, a recognizable face, and besides he is being paid like a main event fighter. If he doesn't live up to it, the money is going to go away. Again though, like Liddell, Couture is getting old, hasn't fought in a while. If I am him, I am a little pissed that I have to fight a guy with so few fights, but also is potentially as dangerous as Lesnar is.

[Rich1033]

Alright, a couple thoughts on a few of the posts above. Im fairly certain Couture had a hand in choosing Lesnar for this fight. Couture will get a percentage of the PPV buys and you have to believe that fight will generate a huge buyrate. Second, who else is he going to fight? Mir and Nog are the coaches of the next TUF and already scheduled to fight each other for the title at a future PPV, so they are out of the question. So Whos left? Kongo is injured I believe, Vera is down at 205, he already beat Gonzaga, the only person left is Werdum. You can make a good argument for him, but thats it. You have to believe Couture and Dana White would much rather take the much bigger payday from the Lesner fight. The fact is the UFC HW division just isnt very deep. Sucks for Werdum, but if he wins another fight or 2 they will have to give him his shot.

As for Rashad, while Im not a big fan, I dont have much of a problem with him getting the title fight. It was widely believed either the winner of Rashad/Chuck or Machida/Silva would fight Forrest. With Silva pulling out of the Machida fight at UFC 89 the winner of the other was going to get the title fight. Im sure the UFC isnt exactly thrilled with that fight.

[Travis]

It's the perfect time for the UFC to give Evans a title shot. He's coming off a highlight reel knockout of *the* knockout artist, is undefeated in UFC competition and at this point the only way his name gets any more recognizable is if he wins the title or can have another stunning finish against another name opponent. May not get it, but it's hard to see him getting any mroe marketable without a title being involved.

[Rich1033]

Evan Tanner, 37, was found dead in the Palo Verde mountain area of California today. Link

Sad news, I was always a fan of his. Seems like a great guy, and a truly unique and special human being.

[DaddyTorgo]

sad about tanner

as far as the comment above by bonegavel/oilers - count me in the camp who would rather see 2 BJJ guys go at it for 15 minutes than 2 strikers (though i'm coming around to appreciating the striking)

[General Mike]

Members only breaking news on tonight's show
By Dave Meltzer

Tonight's Ken Shamrock vs. Kimbo Slice main event is in jeopardy because of a cut suffered by Ken Shamrock.

Nothing is definite at the moment but we have confirmed a few things. First is that Frank Shamrock, who has not trained at all, did volunteer to take the fight but because he wasn't licensed in Florida the commission nixed it. Seth Petruzelli, who is licensed and was scheduled for the undercard, was also asked but as of last word, Kimbo Slice's people have not accepted the fight.

It is not 100% that Shamrock is off, but at this moment everything is going on the assumption he will not be fighting.

[General Mike]

More breaking news on tonight's show PDF Print E-mail

By Dave Meltzer

With the show ready to start, there is nothing official regarding the main event.

Ken Shamrock, who was scheduled to face Kimbo Slice in the main event, was cut and the match has been off, on, off and may be back on in the past several hours. Ken Shamrock wants to fight but the problem has been getting the commission doctor to approve the fight. As of a few minutes ago, it appeared they were going to let Shamrock fight and the main event would be back on, but nothing is official.

As of 7 p.m. Eastern time it looks like Shamrock has been cleared and the main event is back on. If anything changes,we will post a new update.

[Flasch186]

wow, just wow

[Matthean]

Considering Kimbo's last fight when his opponent had the huge ear issue before going in, I'm wondering if this is doing anything for him at all. I think he's overhyped as is, but getting fights virtually handed to you can't be helping.

The real reason to watch anyway.